Nigel Evans is a hypocrite.....

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  • imrightokimrightok Posts: 8,492
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    kippeh wrote: »
    No, you've taken one instance and without considering it on its own merit, have just applied it as a general rule of thumb principle. Credit where it's due, and it may be here if somebody has done an about turn because their experience has made them more aware of what the issues are.

    No, no credit is due. When labour gave the pensioners a miserly few pence raise ; I think it was something as pathetic as 74p per week they were lambasted and Blair or Brown came out and apologised; I don't think they were sorry; more to do with the outage of the public. Who in their right mind could think that 74p could help anyone?
  • stoatiestoatie Posts: 78,106
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    OP, what message do you take from the story of Saul on the road to Damascus?
  • imrightokimrightok Posts: 8,492
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    stoatie wrote: »
    OP, what message do you take from the story of Saul on the road to Damascus?

    Staring at the sun is bad for your eyes?
  • wallsterwallster Posts: 17,609
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    imrightok wrote: »
    How many times do we hear that mps of either party are not in touch with the common man? Well this is a prime example of that.

    Since Nigel's huge court fees he's now talking about speaking to Chris Grayling about the cuts in legal aid; despite being a supporter of the cuts before it affected him. However unlike the man on the street ,Evans was able to sell one of his houses in 2010; so that'll help to offset some of his cost.


    I have no link yet.

    The CPS should pay for Nigel's legal bills. The idea that it is acceptable for an innocent person to have to spend a small fortune to defend himself is unfair and unjust.
  • Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
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    SnrDev wrote: »
    I wonder how many people would be relaxed about effectively being fined £105,000 after a clean sweep of Not Guilty verdicts? You spend your adult life accumulating a bit of wealth to enjoy your latter years (or hey how about your current years too?) and then thanks to the CPS deciding that things like this must be followed through he finds a huge hole in his savings. See also DLT.

    FWIW I reckon the state should reimburse his costs to the full.
    Much better not to be able to afford it and be found guilty
  • imrightokimrightok Posts: 8,492
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    wallster wrote: »
    The CPS should pay for Nigel's legal bills. The idea that it is acceptable for an innocent person to have to spend a small fortune to defend himself is unfair and unjust.

    That's not my argument. Had he disagreed with the policy in the first place then I wouldn't have had any complaints.
  • Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
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    The elephant in the room is how many people have been found guilty because they could not afford a good defence
  • imrightokimrightok Posts: 8,492
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    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    The elephant in the room is how many people have been found guilty because they could not afford a good defence

    Exactly.
  • Syntax ErrorSyntax Error Posts: 27,738
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    imrightok wrote: »
    How many times do we hear that mps of either party are not in touch with the common man? Well this is a prime example of that.

    Since Nigel's huge court fees he's now talking about speaking to Chris Grayling about the cuts in legal aid; despite being a supporter of the cuts before it affected him. However unlike the man on the street ,Evans was able to sell one of his houses in 2010; so that'll help to offset some of his cost.


    I have no link yet.

    I think you should applaud Evans for changing his mind, thanks to being on the receiving end for once.

    Too many of our politicians are just career politicians with no real experience of life & they rarely, if ever, have to 'suffer' at the hands of the policies they enact.

    This is one time when a politician is on the receiving end & has now changed his mind on something.

    I would like it if more of them were to experience things that would make them change their minds.
  • Richard46Richard46 Posts: 59,830
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    imrightok wrote: »
    Staring at the sun is bad for your eyes?

    I think stoatie's post deserved a much better answer than that.
  • anne_666anne_666 Posts: 72,891
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    It proves nothing more than he's a normal human being who thankfully learns from his mistakes. Good for him.
  • stoatiestoatie Posts: 78,106
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    Richard46 wrote: »
    I think stoatie's post deserved a much better answer than that.

    Thank you; I thought so.
  • OvalteenieOvalteenie Posts: 24,169
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    cultureman wrote: »
    Indeed. As the economist John Maynard Keynes put it:

    "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"

    But the facts have not changed. What has changed is Evans' sympathies, as a result of his personal experience of falling victim to the very rules that he voted in favour of. I would have more respect for his Damascene conversion if he had seen the light without his court case.

    This is more of a damning indictment on politicians having an 'I'm all right Jack" attitude in their attack on the welfare state (of which legal aid is a pillar) - until it affects them personally.

    I have no sympathy for Evans' plight now; in a sense he made his own bed and now must lie on it. Naked. ^_^
  • Regis MagnaeRegis Magnae Posts: 6,810
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    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    The elephant in the room is how many people have been found guilty because they could not afford a good defence

    Indeed, or simply plead guilty because they were advised to.
  • imrightokimrightok Posts: 8,492
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    Ovalteenie wrote: »
    But the facts have not changed. What has changed is Evans' sympathies, as a result of his personal experience of falling victim to the very rules that he voted in favour of. I would have more respect for his Damascene conversion if he had seen the light without his court case.

    This is more of a damning indictment on politicians having an 'I'm all right Jack" attitude in their attack on the welfare state (of which legal aid is a pillar) - until it affects them personally.

    I have no sympathy for Evans' plight now; in a sense he made his own bed and now must lie on it. Naked. ^_^

    This👆👆👆
  • TelevisionUserTelevisionUser Posts: 41,404
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    Ovalteenie wrote: »
    But the facts have not changed. What has changed is Evans' sympathies, as a result of his personal experience of falling victim to the very rules that he voted in favour of. I would have more respect for his Damascene conversion if he had seen the light without his court case.

    This is more of a damning indictment on politicians having an 'I'm all right Jack" attitude in their attack on the welfare state (of which legal aid is a pillar) - until it affects them personally.

    I have no sympathy for Evans' plight now; in a sense he made his own bed and now must lie on it.
    Naked. ^_^

    Indeed, Ovalteenie, and Nigel Evans was, in part, the author of his own misfortune. After all, he willingly and voluntarily voted for swingeing cuts to the UK's legal aid provisions which he might well have benefited from had they remained in place:

    "Nigel Evans, who is £130,000 out of pocket after being cleared of sexual assault, has said he regretted his previous support for cutting legal aid."
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/130000-poorer-in-fees-nigel-evans-admits-regret-for-past-support-of-legal-aid-cuts-9259579.html
  • jesayajesaya Posts: 35,597
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    Indeed, Ovalteenie, and Nigel Evans was, in part, the author of his own misfortune. After all, he willingly and voluntarily voted for swingeing cuts to the UK's legal aid provisions which he might well have benefited from had they remained in place:

    "Nigel Evans, who is £130,000 out of pocket after being cleared of sexual assault, has said he regretted his previous support for cutting legal aid."
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/130000-poorer-in-fees-nigel-evans-admits-regret-for-past-support-of-legal-aid-cuts-9259579.html

    Well, he didn't actually vote for them - it says so in the second paragraph. He did support it however, and now has changed his mind. People do that when they experience things for themselves.
  • OvalteenieOvalteenie Posts: 24,169
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    jesaya wrote: »
    Well, he didn't actually vote for them - it says so in the second paragraph. He did support it however, and now has changed his mind. People do that when they experience things for themselves.
    1. He didn't actually vote for them - only because he was barred from doing so as deputy speaker. He has admitted that, had he been allowed, he would have done, as he was fully in support of cutting Legal Aid.

    2. True. But one would hope that politicians are motivated to make decisions in legislating, on behalf of all of us, out of selfless understanding and consideration for the general common good. And not simply because it would benefit themselves, or change their mind when they have burnt their own fingers, which is not selflessness but selfishness.
  • OvalteenieOvalteenie Posts: 24,169
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    Indeed, Ovalteenie, and Nigel Evans was, in part, the author of his own misfortune. After all, he willingly and voluntarily voted for swingeing cuts to the UK's legal aid provisions which he might well have benefited from had they remained in place:

    "Nigel Evans, who is £130,000 out of pocket after being cleared of sexual assault, has said he regretted his previous support for cutting legal aid."
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/130000-poorer-in-fees-nigel-evans-admits-regret-for-past-support-of-legal-aid-cuts-9259579.html

    Thank you tv user :)

    I wonder if Nigel Evans will also now campaign against other coalition cuts to welfare provision, or is it just Legal Aid <rolleyes smiley>?
  • imrightokimrightok Posts: 8,492
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    Ovalteenie wrote: »
    1. He didn't actually vote for them - only because he was barred from doing so as deputy speaker. He has admitted that, had he been allowed, he would have done, as he was fully in support of cutting Legal Aid.

    2. True. But one would hope that politicians are motivated to make decisions in legislating, on behalf of all of us, out of selfless understanding and consideration for the general common good. And not simply because it would benefit themselves, or change their mind when they have burnt their own fingers, which is not selflessness but selfishness.

    This👆👆

    Ovalteenie wrote: »
    Thank you tv user :)

    I wonder if Nigel Evans will also now campaign against other coalition cuts to welfare provision, or is it just Legal Aid <rolleyes smiley>?

    This👆👆
  • Richard1960Richard1960 Posts: 20,336
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    wallster wrote: »
    The CPS should pay for Nigel's legal bills. The idea that it is acceptable for an innocent person to have to spend a small fortune to defend himself is unfair and unjust.


    What if a MP had of not faced these charges so this was highlighted ordinary people would not have had the likely clout of Nigel Evans.

    Whilst i applaud his about turn on his views.

    What i find amazing is such a bright man could not have foreseen the hurt these cuts would have had on others before as supporting them in parliament even if he did not vote.

    It just goes to show the standard of deep thinking our MPs have.:(
  • Richard1960Richard1960 Posts: 20,336
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    Ovalteenie wrote: »
    1. He didn't actually vote for them - only because he was barred from doing so as deputy speaker. He has admitted that, had he been allowed, he would have done, as he was fully in support of cutting Legal Aid.

    2. True. But one would hope that politicians are motivated to make decisions in legislating, on behalf of all of us, out of selfless understanding and consideration for the general common good. And not simply because it would benefit themselves, or change their mind when they have burnt their own fingers, which is not selflessness but selfishness.


    This.:(
  • imrightokimrightok Posts: 8,492
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    stoatie wrote: »
    OP, what message do you take from the story of Saul on the road to Damascus?

    That his whole life turned around, not just one little aspect of it , that caused him an inconvenience.
  • occyoccy Posts: 64,630
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    Nigel Evans could sue the people if he knew for dragging his name through court, but that could be a cost to him and if he loses, then. He has to pay his lawyer fees too which includes VAT and he can't even claim that back, so he said " speaking on LBC during the week"
  • cessnacessna Posts: 6,747
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    I would need further details before giving an opinion on reimbursement of NEs
    legal costs as more and more information is released. For instance its understood he had a choice of two or more paths of legal representation available. One of which it is understood had he so chosen, would have almost certainly assured reimbursement of his legal costs.
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