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UKIP and PR

gemma-the-huskygemma-the-husky Posts: 18,116
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in Politics #1
The beauty of PR in the Euro elections is that a vote for UKIP is NOT a wasted vote. TRoll on Thursday.

No wonder "they" don't want a PR democracy electing MPs for Westminster.
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  • SnowStorm86SnowStorm86 Posts: 17,273
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    #2
    The same is true of Green.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,916
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    #3
    It's interesting how all three of the major parties want closer integration with Europe, but don't want to adopt their system of PR. Funny that.
  • radio4extracrapradio4extracrap Posts: 2,933
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    #4
    Vernon Bennett wrote: »
    It's interesting how all three of the major parties want closer integration with Europe, but don't want to adopt their system of PR. Funny that.

    Well said. Its because they dont trust the people...
  • deptfordbakerdeptfordbaker Posts: 22,368
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    #5
    Oh, sorry I thought this was a public relations thread. :D

    I was going to say, yes they could do with some.
  • jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,997
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    #6
    Vernon Bennett wrote: »
    It's interesting how all three of the major parties want closer integration with Europe, but don't want to adopt their system of PR. Funny that.

    To be fair the Lib Dems do want PR though in 2015 I doubt it would do for them what they would like it to.
  • rusty123rusty123 Posts: 22,872
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    #7
    gemma-the-husky wrote: »
    The beauty of PR in the Euro elections is that a vote for UKIP is NOT a wasted vote.

    But folk whinge when the likes of the BNP might win a seat, use the presence of such people against you when you find yourself having to do deals with them in office....

    The cons outweigh the pros afaic hence why I'm no fan of PR.
  • edExedEx Posts: 13,460
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    #8
    Vernon Bennett wrote: »
    It's interesting how all three of the major parties want closer integration with Europe, but don't want to adopt their system of PR. Funny that.
    All three? The Lib Dems have been banging on about wanting PR for as long as there's been a Lib Dems.
    jmclaugh wrote: »
    To be fair the Lib Dems do want PR though in 2015 I doubt it would do for them what they would like it to.
    At their current polling rates PR would see the Lib Dems win roughly the same amount of seats they hold now. Under FPTP they'll lose at least half of them.
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    #9
    gemma-the-husky wrote: »
    The beauty of PR in the Euro elections is that a vote for UKIP is NOT a wasted vote. TRoll on Thursday.

    No wonder "they" don't want a PR democracy electing MPs for Westminster.

    Great for the BNP too.
  • rusty123rusty123 Posts: 22,872
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    #10
    ItJustMyOpinion wrote: »
    Oh, sorry I thought this was a public relations thread. :D

    I was going to say, yes they could do with some.

    Ditto :)
  • edExedEx Posts: 13,460
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    #11
    flagpole wrote: »
    Great for the BNP too.
    The BNP are dead and gone. Thursday will see both their MEPs lose their seats.
  • rusty123rusty123 Posts: 22,872
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    #12
    edEx wrote: »
    All three? The Lib Dems have been banging on about wanting PR for as long as there's been a Lib Dems.

    At their current polling rates PR would see them win roughly the same amount of seats they hold now. Under FPTP they'll lose at least half of them.

    Then their supporters crucify them for going into coalition with what they perceive as "the wrong people" despite them winning the most seats and popular vote...

    ... irony does make me smile at times.
  • Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    #13
    Vernon Bennett wrote: »
    It's interesting how all three of the major parties want closer integration with Europe, but don't want to adopt their system of PR. Funny that.

    What are you talking about? The Lib Dem's have been calling for PR for years, it's one of their main points.
  • jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,997
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    #14
    edEx wrote: »
    At their current polling rates PR would see the Lib Dems win roughly the same amount of seats they hold now. Under FPTP they'll lose at least half of them.

    Good.
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    #15
    edEx wrote: »
    The BNP are dead and gone. Thursday will see both their MEPs lose their seats.

    I know.

    If we had a PR system they would have MPs though. right now.

    I'm just pointing out that you can't argue how great it would be for say the greens without accepting that it would be just as good for any other lunatic party.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,916
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    #16
    edEx wrote: »
    All three? The Lib Dems have been banging on about wanting PR for as long as there's been a Lib Dems.

    At their current polling rates PR would see the Lib Dems win roughly the same amount of seats they hold now. Under FPTP they'll lose at least half of them.

    Fair enough, although you've just highlighted the problem in a nutshell. The current system benefits Labour and Conservative, but disadvantages the Lib Dems. I wonder how the Liberals would feel about PR when they realise UKIP's and other parties pollings are stronger than theirs however...
  • niceguy1966niceguy1966 Posts: 29,560
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    #17
    gemma-the-husky wrote: »
    The beauty of PR in the Euro elections is that a vote for UKIP is NOT a wasted vote. TRoll on Thursday.

    No wonder "they" don't want a PR democracy electing MPs for Westminster.

    "They" gave you a referendum on PR in 2011, and "we" said no 2:1

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum,_2011

    A bit of a pointless thread if you can't remember back 3 years.
  • SnowStorm86SnowStorm86 Posts: 17,273
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    #18
    Vernon Bennett wrote: »
    Fair enough, although you've just highlighted the problem in a nutshell. The current system benefits Labour and Conservative, but disadvantages the Lib Dems. I wonder how the Liberals would feel about PR when they realise UKIP's and other parties pollings are stronger than theirs however...

    I doubt they'd be very surprised. Lib Dems were the protest vote party. Now they're in power, the protest vote goes elsewhere.
  • gemma-the-huskygemma-the-husky Posts: 18,116
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    #19
    I forgot about that. But AV is not PR. It still keeps minorities down.
  • jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,566
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    #20
    jmclaugh wrote: »
    Good.

    Not good for democracy.
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    #21
    gemma-the-husky wrote: »
    I forgot about that. But AV is not PR. It still keeps minorities down.

    the result of the referendum on AV is, rightly or wrongly, interpreted as a complete lack of appetite for any change to the voting system.

    I don't think you'll find many people that think had the referendum been for PR rather than AV the result would have been any different.

    it is therefore with some irony that people advocate PR as being 'more democratic'.
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    #22
    jjwales wrote: »
    Not good for democracy.

    How's that then?
  • jmclaughjmclaugh Posts: 63,997
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    #23
    jjwales wrote: »
    Not good for democracy.

    Those pesky voters, democracy would be much better off without them.
  • jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,566
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    #24
    flagpole wrote: »
    How's that then?

    Lib Dems and other minor parties not getting fair representation in Parliament = bad for democracy.
  • Clarisse76Clarisse76 Posts: 5,566
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    #25
    rusty123 wrote: »
    But folk whinge when the likes of the BNP might win a seat, use the presence of such people against you when you find yourself having to do deals with them in office....
    The Green Party currently have a single seat, perhaps you could enlighten us all as to the deals that the government has had to do with Caroline Lucas and how many times she has held the balance of power in parliament?
  • jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,566
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    #26
    rusty123 wrote: »
    But folk whinge when the likes of the BNP might win a seat, use the presence of such people against you when you find yourself having to do deals with them in office....

    The cons outweigh the pros afaic hence why I'm no fan of PR.

    The fact that parties you don't like would get MPs is no argument against PR. Hope that's not your only reason!
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