John_Elway - don't waste your breath. Some people won't accept Skype as a useful tool no matter how incontravertable the arguments are that you put forward.
Skype is an excellent tool. I am behind a router (so no "supernoding" for me then). My excellent ISP (Plusnet) prioritise Skype traffic as "VOIP" service and not p2p (which it really is) and the traffic allowance comes under "Internet Phone Calls" and not p2p. And I have it switched on all the time, 24/365 and the traffic in the phone calls column in my usage tool is negligible. So all this "gobbling into" my allowance is complete cr@p.
The quality is always superb. Even when my wife talks to her grandma, who is in the USA, and connected to my father-in-law's wireless router, is right on the edge of the wireless bubble, and she runs Skype on a P3-450 with 64MB RAM and Windows XP. Tell me that's not amazing.
My international call charges have now been zero for months, and without having to subscribe to any paid-for service.
Granted it's not for everyone, but Skype is extrmely useful for a lot of people, free to other skype users, and works well providing you have a decent ISP.
To suggest otherwise and whinge about it not being a "proper" VOIP service is just pathetic. Who cares. It works. Well. And it's free. The end.
I did try to say all this ages ago when basically i was trying to tell them that it works without any config behind whatever nat router firewall you are on
so for my grandmother who is behind a very ISP limited restrictive NAT which she cant change or access skype is the only thing that works. plus she is not technical at all but she can double click on my name then talk fine god forbid if i had to tell her to trouble shoot a SIP connection.
So who cares if its a kids toy it saves me hundreds ringing India and Israel. and the voice quality is damn good not to mention fast file transfers and VIDEO where can SIP do any of these things and all this FOR FREE let me repeat that FREE!!!
but im not going to stick around cos ill just get flamed yes it is not proper SIP but who cares and as far as hardware goes the linksys cit200 is a damn good DECT phone and works well (my mum uses it) skype is big enough that people will make hardware proprietry or not. not to mention half these SIP outfits like VOIPSTUNT etc probably wont be around in a weeks time while skype will
Skype is an excellent tool. I am behind a router (so no "supernoding" for me then).
So all this "gobbling into" my allowance is complete cr@p.
I think the two go hand in hand. Why don't you connect the Internet straight into your computer for a few days, and look at the "gobbling" effect on your allowance then. Maybe you'll see the point that's being made!
It's not that it's not "proper" SIP, it's not SIP at all. SIP is an open standard, skype isn't SIP, it's completely different to SIP, and it never will be SIP.
It's Skype, that's the brand, proprietary format and the technology, all in one name.
I like to think of it as the AOL of VOIP. It holds your hand everystep of the way, whilst forcing you to use software designed by them, for a 2 year old to use. Except actually, once most people move away from AOL or Skype, they find that the alternatives are actually easier to use.
What's easier to do? Walk to the computer, find the skype phone which is plugged into the USB port of the computer, switch the computer on if it isn't already on, and then dial the number to ring somebody. Or, pick up a normal cordless phone, which can be put anywhere in the house, dial a number, and wait for the other person to answer?
I think the two go hand in hand. Why don't you connect the Internet straight into your computer for a few days, and look at the "gobbling" effect on your allowance then. Maybe you'll see the point that's being made!
Actually, after I posted that, I realised that I do actually have the port that I installed Skype onto forwarded from my router to the server it's on (Skype recommend this for "higher call quality" but I'm not convinced it makes a difference). So maybe I'm not protected by NAT. I still have broadband phonecalls listed as about 100MB a week on my useage monitor. And I'm pretty sure that's about what the missus uses calling her family.
Actually, after I posted that, I realised that I do actually have the port that I installed Skype onto forwarded from my router to the server it's on (Skype recommend this for "higher call quality" but I'm not convinced it makes a difference). So maybe I'm not protected by NAT. I still have broadband phonecalls listed as about 100MB a week on my useage monitor. And I'm pretty sure that's about what the missus uses calling her family.
You may not be fully protected by NAT, but you've definitely not ended up as a supernode. You'd soon know if you were.
I'm looking into some type of voip solution - the main reason being to call friends in Spain ideally for free..
1st question: because my friends in Spain are in a remote location they are going to have to get their "broadband" via a satellite - is voip still possible with this setup or is it a no no as I suppose its not really going to be voip(?)
2nd question: looking on ebay there are all sorts of voip phones, will all of these work on any voip service or do i need to get a certain phone for a certain provider?
If anyone could recommend a service & phone that suits my purpose I would like to hear any suggestions.. having a phone that doesn't need to be connected to the PC isn't critical but would be a bonus..
1st question: because my friends in Spain are in a remote location they are going to have to get their "broadband" via a satellite - is voip still possible with this setup or is it a no no as I suppose its not really going to be voip(?)
Expect at the minimum for VOIP over satellite broadband to be choppy given the amount of transmission time up to the satellite & back.
However a quick look has yielded at least one provider that is 5p per call and 0p/min to Spain on regular PSTN, and 2 others at 0.5p/min (one is 4p connection fee the other is a dial through number)
You'll find most VoIP phones on eBay will be SIP, they will work with any SIP provider, as SIP is an open standard.
If you plan on going the Skype route then you need ones made for Skype, and these will only work on Skype.
However if you are looking at the el-cheapo USB phones, then these are really just USB sound cards so will work with anything, though the buttons might not work unless you have the required drivers for the software used.
www.voipstunt.com offers free calls to landlines Spain, UK, USA and other countries, though the free calls are now limited to 20 hours per month, and you have to top up so much every 4 months. Though you could look at landline services such as 18185, 18866, 1899 etc.
Expect at the minimum for VOIP over satellite broadband to be choppy given the amount of transmission time up to the satellite & back.
However a quick look has yielded at least one provider that is 5p per call and 0p/min to Spain on regular PSTN, and 2 others at 0.5p/min (one is 4p connection fee the other is a dial through number)
Thanks Jason, so for the better connection i need to go for a service that provides voip to a landline, what about the costs if they are ringing me (pstn to voip) will that be the same cost or different?
Bex: when you say the buttons wont work do you mean that I will have to use the pc keyboard to dial / hangup etc?
Sorry if i sound dumb - i am when it comes to voip..
I wont be going for skype as it seems a bit constrictive..
I thought netgear were bringing out a wlan skype phone, completely independent of the PC? No doubt it'll be hideously expensive, work only with skype, and be poor.
That said the WLAN SIP phones aren't quite there, but at least they're steadily improving & the likes of Nokia / Sony Ericsson are putting SIP support in their next smartphones. If skype was so good why are they not implementing that?
I'll stick to the reliable, trusted, open protocols (SIP and IAX2) thanks.
If using a USB phone which isn't really a VoIP phone, it's just a USB sound card then yes you may have to use the PC keyboard instead of the dial-pad on the 'phone', though I think most of drivers for Skype, some have drivers for other software, or they are available.
If you are given a proper 01 or 02 number from your VoIP provider then the cost has to be and is the same as calling any other 01 or 02 number.
Thanks Jason, so for the better connection i need to go for a service that provides voip to a landline, what about the costs if they are ringing me (pstn to voip) will that be the same cost or different?
Sorry - the costs I quoted were for PSTN calls, not VOIP.... shouldn't be beyond the possibility of getting sub 1p/min to a Spanish landline using a SIP provider though.
Indeed (after a very cursory glance) - SIPdiscount is free to Spanish landline, as is VOIPcheap - so no doubt many others too. SkypeOut GBP0.012/min (1.2p/min for the avoidance of doubt)
Thanks Jason, so for the better connection i need to go for a service that provides voip to a landline, what about the costs if they are ringing me (pstn to voip) will that be the same cost or different?
If your VOIP provider gives you a geographical phone number (01/02) the cost to the person calling you will be the same as it would be if they were calling a non-VOIP 01/02 number.
If you have a mobile phone on a contract with inclusive minutes check to see if they allow 0844/0845 numbers as part of your inclusive allowance.
I don't make any outgoing calls via VOIP as my O2 contract includes 0844 numbers as part of my allowance, so i can use Just-Dial's indirect access number to call my mum in Portugal for no extra cost.
For when my mum wants to call me i purchased a call-in number from Gizmo and she uses a calling card for cheap rates to UK 01 numbers.
As previously pointed out though, Sipgate provides a geographical number for free, so if you do get 0844 numbers inclusive a setup like mine could get your additional costs to zero.
Thanks guys, so from what I can gather with regards to voip (voipCheap for example) I can call a Spanish LL free (300 mins per week) but it doesn't make any difference cost wise for them whether they call my voip phone or LL - I suppose the key is that I just call them back.. (i'm saying me here its actually my Mrs and my friends Mrs :cool: ) I think I shall sign up to voipCheap and get a cheapo usb phone to start with and see what happens..
John_Elway - don't waste your breath. Some people won't accept Skype as a useful tool no matter how incontravertable the arguments are that you put forward.
Skype is an excellent tool. I am behind a router (so no "supernoding" for me then). My excellent ISP (Plusnet) prioritise Skype traffic as "VOIP" service and not p2p (which it really is) and the traffic allowance comes under "Internet Phone Calls" and not p2p. And I have it switched on all the time, 24/365 and the traffic in the phone calls column in my usage tool is negligible. So all this "gobbling into" my allowance is complete cr@p.
The quality is always superb. Even when my wife talks to her grandma, who is in the USA, and connected to my father-in-law's wireless router, is right on the edge of the wireless bubble, and she runs Skype on a P3-450 with 64MB RAM and Windows XP. Tell me that's not amazing.
My international call charges have now been zero for months, and without having to subscribe to any paid-for service.
Granted it's not for everyone, but Skype is extrmely useful for a lot of people, free to other skype users, and works well providing you have a decent ISP.
To suggest otherwise and whinge about it not being a "proper" VOIP service is just pathetic. Who cares. It works. Well. And it's free. The end.
Indeed... I think the particular individual got in a huff because I was daring to question why skype was rubbish. I was literally only asking and there's nothing wrong with asking someone to clarify things like 'it's for kids'. That doesn't actually mean anything and isn't useful in a thread. He obviously has a gripe about skype as he's bothered to mention it under his name in his profile.
I've since learned he has sent PMs to other people in this thread about me. I'm flattered I mean so much to him. No one else in this thread had a problem other than him... now he's sending PMs to strangers... about another stranger? If I don't like someone's posts I ignore them... LAST thing I'm going to do is send private messages to people I don't know about someone else I don't know!
I have no problem with you, other than you did try belittle other providers by saying Skype was cheaper, when you were completely wrong, when Skype was the dearest out the lot.
You never acknowledged the fact you made a mistake, we all make mistakes, but when you don't admit and apologise, people no longer respect what you may have to say, no matter how well educated you may be.
In the business I am in, if you make a mistake you need to quickly apologise and put right, as we would lose customers.
It's not that it's not "proper" SIP, it's not SIP at all. SIP is an open standard, skype isn't SIP, it's completely different to SIP, and it never will be SIP.
It's Skype, that's the brand, proprietary format and the technology, all in one name.
I like to think of it as the AOL of VOIP. It holds your hand everystep of the way, whilst forcing you to use software designed by them, for a 2 year old to use. Except actually, once most people move away from AOL or Skype, they find that the alternatives are actually easier to use.
What's easier to do? Walk to the computer, find the skype phone which is plugged into the USB port of the computer, switch the computer on if it isn't already on, and then dial the number to ring somebody. Or, pick up a normal cordless phone, which can be put anywhere in the house, dial a number, and wait for the other person to answer?
I know which one I'd choose.
For the first point yes agreed its not SIP
as for AOL of VOIP THATS exactly why ive got it i dont have to faff about with router settings or in my grandmother and parents cases they dont pester me which is worth using it for that alone!!
as far as whats easier yes i go pick up my cordless DECT linksys cit200 (which is often in the kitchen) and call on skype the computers on 24/7 anyway (downloads and the like) so i think your point there has no merit.
as for AOL of VOIP THATS exactly why ive got it i dont have to faff about with router settings or in my grandmother and parents cases they dont pester me which is worth using it for that alone!!
That is a valid enough reason to use it I guess, but just like AOL, when the time comes that people want to move away from it, they're stuck with hardware/software that is unsupported by anything else. And will have to buy new hardware, or learn to use new software. Then of course there's the fact you have to pay more in the first place for the priviledge of using the "brand" of skype.
as far as whats easier yes i go pick up my cordless DECT linksys cit200 (which is often in the kitchen) and call on skype the computers on 24/7 anyway (downloads and the like) so i think your point there has no merit.
Why should having to keep your computer turned on 24/7 be easier. There's the obvious electricity bill implications when compared with a router, or telephone adapter, not to mention the fact that if your computer should crash during a call, you'd be disconnected.
What situation would you be left in if Skype suddenly decided to change the way in which their system works, and alters the format? Would your current hardware still work? I think it's unlikely.
For another analogy, Skype is like Microsoft. You buy into the "experience" and are then forced into making upgrades or changes as and when the company decides. To counter that analogy, SIP is like Linux, there are many different flavours available that run on the same hardware. If you're not happy with the service you recieve on one, you can switch to another one within a matter of minutes. Or even run two together.
I have no problem with you, other than you did try belittle other providers by saying Skype was cheaper, when you were completely wrong, when Skype was the dearest out the lot.
You never acknowledged the fact you made a mistake, we all make mistakes, but when you don't admit and apologise, people no longer respect what you may have to say, no matter how well educated you may be.
In the business I am in, if you make a mistake you need to quickly apologise and put right, as we would lose customers.
You're talking about a different thread. :rolleyes:
Thank you for putting me right on whatever thread you're referring to. I obviously made a mistake. Sorry for being human. I don't watch every single thread I post on.
Thing is, this isn't a 'business', it a forum where people chat, bit like a pub. There is a teeny difference.
Anyway. Everyone will be pleased to learn that Bextech and I have put our differences behind us.
Comments
Skype is an excellent tool. I am behind a router (so no "supernoding" for me then). My excellent ISP (Plusnet) prioritise Skype traffic as "VOIP" service and not p2p (which it really is) and the traffic allowance comes under "Internet Phone Calls" and not p2p. And I have it switched on all the time, 24/365 and the traffic in the phone calls column in my usage tool is negligible. So all this "gobbling into" my allowance is complete cr@p.
The quality is always superb. Even when my wife talks to her grandma, who is in the USA, and connected to my father-in-law's wireless router, is right on the edge of the wireless bubble, and she runs Skype on a P3-450 with 64MB RAM and Windows XP. Tell me that's not amazing.
My international call charges have now been zero for months, and without having to subscribe to any paid-for service.
Granted it's not for everyone, but Skype is extrmely useful for a lot of people, free to other skype users, and works well providing you have a decent ISP.
To suggest otherwise and whinge about it not being a "proper" VOIP service is just pathetic. Who cares. It works. Well. And it's free. The end.
(Ducks!!)
I did try to say all this ages ago when basically i was trying to tell them that it works without any config behind whatever nat router firewall you are on
so for my grandmother who is behind a very ISP limited restrictive NAT which she cant change or access skype is the only thing that works. plus she is not technical at all but she can double click on my name then talk fine god forbid if i had to tell her to trouble shoot a SIP connection.
So who cares if its a kids toy it saves me hundreds ringing India and Israel. and the voice quality is damn good not to mention fast file transfers and VIDEO where can SIP do any of these things and all this FOR FREE let me repeat that FREE!!!
but im not going to stick around cos ill just get flamed yes it is not proper SIP but who cares and as far as hardware goes the linksys cit200 is a damn good DECT phone and works well (my mum uses it) skype is big enough that people will make hardware proprietry or not. not to mention half these SIP outfits like VOIPSTUNT etc probably wont be around in a weeks time while skype will
just thought id add my few bits
JEREMY
It's Skype, that's the brand, proprietary format and the technology, all in one name.
I like to think of it as the AOL of VOIP. It holds your hand everystep of the way, whilst forcing you to use software designed by them, for a 2 year old to use. Except actually, once most people move away from AOL or Skype, they find that the alternatives are actually easier to use.
What's easier to do? Walk to the computer, find the skype phone which is plugged into the USB port of the computer, switch the computer on if it isn't already on, and then dial the number to ring somebody. Or, pick up a normal cordless phone, which can be put anywhere in the house, dial a number, and wait for the other person to answer?
I know which one I'd choose.
Actually, after I posted that, I realised that I do actually have the port that I installed Skype onto forwarded from my router to the server it's on (Skype recommend this for "higher call quality" but I'm not convinced it makes a difference). So maybe I'm not protected by NAT. I still have broadband phonecalls listed as about 100MB a week on my useage monitor. And I'm pretty sure that's about what the missus uses calling her family.
I'm looking into some type of voip solution - the main reason being to call friends in Spain ideally for free..
1st question: because my friends in Spain are in a remote location they are going to have to get their "broadband" via a satellite - is voip still possible with this setup or is it a no no as I suppose its not really going to be voip(?)
2nd question: looking on ebay there are all sorts of voip phones, will all of these work on any voip service or do i need to get a certain phone for a certain provider?
If anyone could recommend a service & phone that suits my purpose I would like to hear any suggestions.. having a phone that doesn't need to be connected to the PC isn't critical but would be a bonus..
thanks
Expect at the minimum for VOIP over satellite broadband to be choppy given the amount of transmission time up to the satellite & back.
However a quick look has yielded at least one provider that is 5p per call and 0p/min to Spain on regular PSTN, and 2 others at 0.5p/min (one is 4p connection fee the other is a dial through number)
If you plan on going the Skype route then you need ones made for Skype, and these will only work on Skype.
However if you are looking at the el-cheapo USB phones, then these are really just USB sound cards so will work with anything, though the buttons might not work unless you have the required drivers for the software used.
www.voipstunt.com offers free calls to landlines Spain, UK, USA and other countries, though the free calls are now limited to 20 hours per month, and you have to top up so much every 4 months. Though you could look at landline services such as 18185, 18866, 1899 etc.
Thanks Jason, so for the better connection i need to go for a service that provides voip to a landline, what about the costs if they are ringing me (pstn to voip) will that be the same cost or different?
Bex: when you say the buttons wont work do you mean that I will have to use the pc keyboard to dial / hangup etc?
Sorry if i sound dumb - i am when it comes to voip..
I wont be going for skype as it seems a bit constrictive..
thanks for all your help
That said the WLAN SIP phones aren't quite there, but at least they're steadily improving & the likes of Nokia / Sony Ericsson are putting SIP support in their next smartphones. If skype was so good why are they not implementing that?
I'll stick to the reliable, trusted, open protocols (SIP and IAX2) thanks.
If you are given a proper 01 or 02 number from your VoIP provider then the cost has to be and is the same as calling any other 01 or 02 number.
Sorry - the costs I quoted were for PSTN calls, not VOIP.... shouldn't be beyond the possibility of getting sub 1p/min to a Spanish landline using a SIP provider though.
Indeed (after a very cursory glance) - SIPdiscount is free to Spanish landline, as is VOIPcheap - so no doubt many others too. SkypeOut GBP0.012/min (1.2p/min for the avoidance of doubt)
If your VOIP provider gives you a geographical phone number (01/02) the cost to the person calling you will be the same as it would be if they were calling a non-VOIP 01/02 number.
If you have a mobile phone on a contract with inclusive minutes check to see if they allow 0844/0845 numbers as part of your inclusive allowance.
I don't make any outgoing calls via VOIP as my O2 contract includes 0844 numbers as part of my allowance, so i can use Just-Dial's indirect access number to call my mum in Portugal for no extra cost.
For when my mum wants to call me i purchased a call-in number from Gizmo and she uses a calling card for cheap rates to UK 01 numbers.
As previously pointed out though, Sipgate provides a geographical number for free, so if you do get 0844 numbers inclusive a setup like mine could get your additional costs to zero.
Thanks for all your advice
Indeed... I think the particular individual got in a huff because I was daring to question why skype was rubbish. I was literally only asking and there's nothing wrong with asking someone to clarify things like 'it's for kids'. That doesn't actually mean anything and isn't useful in a thread. He obviously has a gripe about skype as he's bothered to mention it under his name in his profile.
I've since learned he has sent PMs to other people in this thread about me. I'm flattered I mean so much to him.
later
You never acknowledged the fact you made a mistake, we all make mistakes, but when you don't admit and apologise, people no longer respect what you may have to say, no matter how well educated you may be.
In the business I am in, if you make a mistake you need to quickly apologise and put right, as we would lose customers.
For the first point yes agreed its not SIP
as for AOL of VOIP THATS exactly why ive got it i dont have to faff about with router settings or in my grandmother and parents cases they dont pester me which is worth using it for that alone!!
as far as whats easier yes i go pick up my cordless DECT linksys cit200 (which is often in the kitchen) and call on skype the computers on 24/7 anyway (downloads and the like) so i think your point there has no merit.
JEREMY
Why should having to keep your computer turned on 24/7 be easier. There's the obvious electricity bill implications when compared with a router, or telephone adapter, not to mention the fact that if your computer should crash during a call, you'd be disconnected.
What situation would you be left in if Skype suddenly decided to change the way in which their system works, and alters the format? Would your current hardware still work? I think it's unlikely.
For another analogy, Skype is like Microsoft. You buy into the "experience" and are then forced into making upgrades or changes as and when the company decides. To counter that analogy, SIP is like Linux, there are many different flavours available that run on the same hardware. If you're not happy with the service you recieve on one, you can switch to another one within a matter of minutes. Or even run two together.
You're talking about a different thread. :rolleyes:
Thank you for putting me right on whatever thread you're referring to. I obviously made a mistake. Sorry for being human.
Thing is, this isn't a 'business', it a forum where people chat, bit like a pub. There is a teeny difference.
Anyway. Everyone will be pleased to learn that Bextech and I have put our differences behind us.