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I don't want to hate being gay, so why do I? :|
Charlie_Trench
Posts: 981 Forum Member
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I noticed on these forums that there is a lot of LGBT related discussions and I always look to join in, same as anything LGBT related and I know this is going to sound like a proper therapy session on here lol but tbh people on here give constructive views well so I thought go for it!
For some reason though, I always put a wall up.
I posted a very unpopular forum here about a year ago in relation to gay pride and I didn't mean to offend anyone by that or my views 'cause different strokes for different folks etc
I'm 23 next month and I don't know why or how I got this way. When I was 18, I went to gay nightclubs and I loved the atmosphere and I loved everyone that I spoke to and met.
Now, I can't face anything LGBT related and I do hate that but I've had so many shitty experiences that I dno how to break down that wall.
I've never been an effiminate person and anytime I meet people, I'm constantly coming out all over again lol but that doesn't bother me - I don't have anything to hide. I wouldn't date an effiminate guy but that's not me bashing or having anything against anyone like that - it's just preference.
But I've noticed a lot of people have started to call me a "homophobic gay person" and I hate that but I can see why people say that about me.
I hate the stereotype that comes with being gay and I hate the experiences I have had that have validated these stereotypes that my fear is going through life with a wall up that I can never break down and I'm always going to have this stigma
I just wondered with all the discussions on here, if anyone has ever went through anything similar and if anyone has any advice?
For some reason though, I always put a wall up.
I posted a very unpopular forum here about a year ago in relation to gay pride and I didn't mean to offend anyone by that or my views 'cause different strokes for different folks etc
I'm 23 next month and I don't know why or how I got this way. When I was 18, I went to gay nightclubs and I loved the atmosphere and I loved everyone that I spoke to and met.
Now, I can't face anything LGBT related and I do hate that but I've had so many shitty experiences that I dno how to break down that wall.
I've never been an effiminate person and anytime I meet people, I'm constantly coming out all over again lol but that doesn't bother me - I don't have anything to hide. I wouldn't date an effiminate guy but that's not me bashing or having anything against anyone like that - it's just preference.
But I've noticed a lot of people have started to call me a "homophobic gay person" and I hate that but I can see why people say that about me.
I hate the stereotype that comes with being gay and I hate the experiences I have had that have validated these stereotypes that my fear is going through life with a wall up that I can never break down and I'm always going to have this stigma
I just wondered with all the discussions on here, if anyone has ever went through anything similar and if anyone has any advice?
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No. It sounds a tad more than that. Sounds like people were right to call you homophobic.
Perhaps it'd help if you didn't focus as much (or at all) on stuff related to sexuality and just got on with doing the things you enjoy without caring what sort of people are involved?
FWIW, a mate at work probably has a similar attitude as you.
He was ex-army, there's nothing about him which might suggest he's gay and, when a rumour started going around a work-site about it, his response was to end a daily meeting by saying "...and I'd just like to end all the gossip by confirming that I do like to shag men up the arse but none of you are in any immediate danger because you're all ugly f**kers".
Of all the people I know, he's the one who's most likely to be critical of Larry Grayson or John Inman type people because he doesn't see them as projecting any kind of positive image of gay folks.
I suppose it's kinda like a "normal" straight guy finding macho, randy, medallion-men rather distasteful or a "normal" straight woman getting cheesed-off with air-head bimbos who think their boobs are their best (and only) asset.
Most blokes don't want to hear somebody going on about how many women they've shagged all the time and hitting on every woman who they see.
I can see how a "normal" gay person might not want to see other gay people trying oh-so-hard to show the world just how gay they are.
Takes all sorts, I suppose, and it's just a case of being comfortable with yourself and not getting all irate about what others get up to.
The relationships I have had with people have been incredibly varied, I have dated someone camper than a row of tents. Frankly them boys put me off, I wouldn't go within 100 feet of them. Like you I have been accused of being homophobic, which is always a nice compliment from someone who is never able to make the point. I think disliking verp camp men isn't a bad thing, so long as you don't hurt them verbally ot physically then it can just remain your own thoughts. Its akin to say a man finding a woman attractive or vice versa and seeing things they like. For some effeminate behavious is a right turn off
I have been with my husband for a total of 6 years now, we tied the know last August. When we met we made it clear beforehand that we weren't attracted to camp men. For me its off putting, for Anth well.........lets just say he is never amused. I have always been attracted to men that are different, my only two significant relationships have involved one being a geek and the other (husband) being a big ball fo sensivity.
I don't like gays in general, I don't have many gay friends, I tend to keep a low profile in that respect. Personally I prefer the company of couples in long term relationships, everyone is normally on the same page with regards to life and kids etc. I never understand how people can make being gay a lifestyle, we are all the same no matter which team we bat for.
If you enjoyed the gay scene previously them maybe you're due an upgrade go to another area of the town or city you are and drink there. I found a lot more pleasant people in the Northern Quarter when I stopped visiting Canal Street. You life is what you make of it, if you don't like camp queens then that is your choice. Embrace it, you don't have to be one of the crowd because you are gay, there is more to life than being a scene queen, something very much evident in your post.
You shouldn't give a shit what other people think, what you feel is more important than anything else.
You can be a male gay prostitute, at least you be paid for being gay
It appears from what you say Charlie, that if you're not 100% with them they think you're against them.
But just as they are entitled to live their lives the way they do, so are you and you need to stick to your guns and tell them that.
Good luck.
No you didn't. You posted a thread on the forum.:D
Look you can only be yourself. Personally I think people like Alan Carr have set back the cause of gay people years.
I get where you're coming from, but it's worth pointing out that some men (of all sexualities) can be more feminine than other men (you might even say naturally camp). I hope you're not suggesting they are putting on an act? After all, they are just 'being themselves', just like the OP claims he is.
Personally, I think that many of the feminine qualities in men are good qualities to have (same with masculine ones in women). It makes them more balanced and rounded as human beings. I think it's a shame that so many men are afraid to embrace their feminine side.
To me there is absolutely nothing wrong with seeing a fat person and thinking "woah I don't want to be fat" and the same thing as seeing an effeminate camp person and not wanting to be like that, everyone reacts like that to things they don't want to be.
You. will. not. hate. being. gay.
Let's clear that up, you hate what you think being gay is because of what you been told it is. So you hate gay suggestions, stereotypes and ways of life but peole have no right to hound you for that. They do the exact same when they're told to be something they're not.
The problem with being gay is when you were young, like all people you are conditioned to believe certain things but in being gay when you were a young kid you're told to be straight, you are assumed straight and told that is your future, then you go along with it because you're a kid, then you notice you are gay. So your head is already mixed with all sorts of contradictions.
But instead of 100's of different attitudes to straight possible lifestyles, you're bombared with gay lifestyles and choices that fit what society seems acceptable. So it's really camp acting, feminine guys or jolly attitudes and liking girly things and if not that, then there's something 'wrong' with you'.
I am gay, I can say as absolute truth I love as much as anyone to play about and be camp as a joke but it's not anything more than that, it's not a way of life for me, it's not me. I know who I am and my belief is the point of being gay is you like men, you like masculinity, to explore what a relationship between two males is like...and that's the real point of it, not what has been shown on TV and in society.
But your problem is like anyone, if you go against what you are told and think you should be, you think you're a bad person and homophobic when you're simply doing what every single person on the planet does when they see something they don't want to be, they say they don't like it, then make a choice of what they do want to be.
Your wall is protecting you from becoming something you don't want to be, there's nothing wrong with that. But the reason the wall should come down is because there are people who are exactly like you, who are enjoying being a unique person who is gay under their own preferences and decides what is right for them.
My ultimate advice to you, is that if you see camp people or stereotypes, just accept it, find a way to not let it bother you. I have, to me now I just find it funny. At the end of the day no one is going to put a gun to your head and make you go out with someone you don't like, it's never going to happen and it's completely OK to say no to it.
I have been abused in my life for being gay, it's horrible and it sucks but the idea that everyone in the LGBT community should all support each other and like each other isn't the solution, the World doesn't work like that, every human being makes choices and preferences every waking moment. If you didn't make them, you'd be dead so there's nothign wrong with you wanting to decide on what type of gay person you want to be.
It's unavoidable that you will make choices, then people will react to it with not liking it. It's how living on this planet works, so the idea we should all support each other as we're gay and like each other means we're afraid to be anything that isn't a stereotype for fear of upsetting someone. And a lot of gay people feel like they're upsetting people by just being gay so are extra sensitive of criticism.
But you can't live your life afraid of getting to be who you want to be because you might offend someone.
Just appreciate all these camp, effeminate and whatever else people for showing you an example of what you could be but it's not for you and don't let it bother you because no one will ever force you to be like that and it's not inevitable.
And in time you'll begin to see gay men with as many qualities as any other sexuality and think, what was I ever worried about. And also remember just because you're gay doesn't mean you can't have meaningful relationships with straight men, or women or family etc There are all sorts of people in the World and take being gay and make it something that works for you because it's going to be there all your life, you can achieve it!
I couldn't agree more. The likes of Carr and Norton remind me of the same era as Mr Humphries and Larry Grayson >:(
So Alan and Graham having the audacity to be themselves sets back the gay rights movement, does it?
Here's a radical idea: how about you be yourself and let other people be themselves too.
Is the greatest love of all
[George Benson]
There is nothing wrong with you the way you are, just as there is nothing wrong with anyone being effeminate.
Well said. I love that song.
It was originally written for a biographical film about the boxer Ali.
It's very unlikely that they aren't being themselves though, TV is moderated and is scripted and rehearsed and there are countless rules about what can be said, same for things like interviews and twitter. What Graham and Alan give to the public through the media is a persona they have created because there's no other way any of us can know what they're really like.
I noticed on both their shows there's always massive editing and they make jokes about it because they literally can't be themselves enough to show who they really are as TV doesn't allow it, TV presenters no matter who they are all have to make themselves as likeable.
Ever notice one thing effeminate and camp people all have in common is they come across as silly, likeable, funny because it's easier to be liked to do that than to be angry, rude, aggressive, moody. Or in other words feminine qualities are more likeable generally because straight men are attracted to that as it's non threatening in their partners. And masculine qualities are seen as edgy, sharp uncomfortable.
So it's easy to see why people on TV go for more effeminate qualities, as it's easier to be non threatening doing that than it is to be masculine, moody or have a chip on their shoulder.
You make some interesting points, but I would argue that both of them are still being fairly true to themselves. Alan has often spoken of how he never had to come out at school because his (naturally) camp voice was such a giveaway.
Campness doesn't always go hand in hand with likeable qualities either, it is often associated with negative traits such as bitchiness.
I would also argue that straight men can certainly be threatened by effeminate behaviour (in both themselves and in others). Although things may be better than they once were, too many men (of all sexualities) are terrified of being seen as unmanly or as camp or simply as "gay". Look at the obsession with seeming "straight-acting" in the gay world. It's very sad, really.
In an ideal world (one we hopefully will inhabit one day), men would feel free enough and confident enough to embrace all of who they are - including the feminine qualities that many men possess, as well as any masculine ones.
His campness did not seem real. I am indeed suggesting that particular individual was putting on an act. He just seemed needy for attention.
Or maybe, just maybe, he feels immense pressure to play out the cliched role society has cast him in - that of the camp court jester. In which case, blame society not him.
I have zero interest in girls, but I went to gay clubs and men touched my arse and that kinda repulsed me too.
I came to the conclusion that I am some kind of asexual, no interest in the actual act of sex whatsoever, but I still kinda fancy girls, but looking at naked men doesn't bother me either... ???
I dunno, I'm 42 and I've got this far through life by blagging it, I think I can do the next few months before it ends.
So to the OP, just like whatever, do what you want to do, in the big wide world it matters not one bit.
I've had my moments of hating the scene too. It only takes one ass hole to make you see the gay community through s**t-stained glasses.
I'd encourage you to be more open towards other gay people, rather than writing off effeminate guys at the first opportunity, because you're setting yourself up to be excluded that way.