Well, my little brother whom I've mentioned on this thread has just today been offered a graduate position with one of the leading banks and I'm very proud of him. I am absolutely convinced that private school has shaped him and brought out qualities in him a state school never would have. He is very intelligent, but was very shy as a kid and was getting lost in a large class of outspoken kids. He really struggled bith socially and academically until my parents put him in a lovely private school. He changed so much (in a good way) and is a very cool guy now (if I say so myself ) with a large circle of friends. His friends are all very intelligent, well brought up, great young adults too.
Both my nephews went through State school education. The elder brother ended up at Oxford while his younger brother went to Cambridge, mainly because he didn't want to be seen as copying his older brother...even though both now work in Finance.
The elder brother paid his own way through his Masters degree as by then he'd earned more than enough to finance it.
Actually i feel sorry for kids whose parents buy them an education at some fancy Private school in the naive belief that intelligence can be bought off the shelf.
I very much doubt if any of them are stupid as to think that. They just want to do everything they can for their kids. Don't we all? Even Diane Abbott.
In terms of uni's, every city seems to have an upper class uni and a more middle/lowet class uni. In Nottingham the University of Nottingham is snobby and upper class and Trent Uni is a more laid back partying uni
Not every city, and it's more a question of a 'good' Uni and a 'poor' Uni
Derby for example only has a 'poor' Uni - although it's excellent as a teacher training college, which is what it was originally.
I've only been in private schools, first one fantastic, but was small so only catered for kindergarten - key stage 2. Second one appalling. Single sex and is still classed as a very good school, however teachers didn't care and personally hated it, also didn't notice my dyslexia. Third and final one had a very good mix of sport/lessons and also a very good sen department which helped me a lot.
So in my own experience some private schools are good some are bad, like with state and grammar schools.
If I have kids I would like them to go private, but if they hate it and want to go state or grammar, absolutely fine. Likewise if I can't afford it, state all the way! Different schools benefit different children and if you have a good state school in your area, then everyone wins.
I very much doubt if any of them are stupid as to think that. They just want to do everything they can for their kids. Don't we all? Even Diane Abbott.
Diane Abbott didn't really choose another school for her son, it was to force him to not live in the local area mixing with undesirables. That is the reason she herself gave. Link
I knew what could happen to my son if he was sent to the wrong school and got in with the wrong crowd.
I realised they were subjected to peer *pressure and when that happens it’s very hard for a mother to save her son.
Once a black boy is lost to the world of gangs it’s very hard to get them back and I was genuinely very fearful of what could happen.
I very much doubt if any of them are stupid as to think that. They just want to do everything they can for their kids. Don't we all? Even Diane Abbott.
There are those who think you can make a silk purse from a sows ear and always will be. They think 'brain' is packaged on a shelf which is bought. A friend of mine came from a wealthy family background and both he and his sister went through private education. On his own admittance a total waste of his parents money as he simply never was and never would be an 'academic'. About the only thing he came out with was a 'plummy' accent and a job as a Salesman!
However he excelled in car mechanics which was a passion we both shared and spent endless evenings into the early hours in each others Garages on a variety of cars.
He was killed in a head on collision at just 48 years old returning home from work. The previous evening i'd been working on a car with him in his Garage.
There are those who think you can make a silk purse from a sows ear and always will be. They think 'brain' is packaged on a shelf which is bought. A friend of mine came from a wealthy family background and both he and his sister went through private education. On his own admittance a total waste of his parents money as he simply never was and never would be an 'academic'. About the only thing he came out with was a 'plummy' accent and a job as a Salesman!
However he excelled in car mechanics which was a passion we both shared and spent endless evenings into the early hours in each others Garages on a variety of cars.
He was killed in a head on collision at just 48 years old returning home from work. The previous evening i'd been working on a car with him in his Garage.
Sad story, bulletguy.
My experience of the private sector has been the reverse. Parents non academic, correctly recognising high IQ in their offspring, dug deep and sent him. And you'd recognise that young man now, on your TV.
In terms of uni's, every city seems to have an upper class uni and a more middle/lowet class uni. In Nottingham the University of Nottingham is snobby and upper class and Trent Uni is a more laid back partying uni
Many Polytech Colleges are now 'Universities'. The local College i went to is now re-branded as a 'University' which always brings a cynical smile to my face.
Many Polytech Colleges are now 'Universities'. The local College i went to is now re-branded as a 'University' which always brings a cynical smile to my face.
It's bollocks, isn't it:D Polys did a great job for loads of youngsters. Maybe this is why the engineering sector is so short of good people. I know about a dozen people my age with HNDs, all had reasonable to good careers, all still sought after, all saying that there's nobody to take their place when they retire.
It was a mega huge shock.....but his funeral really was something else. Never been to one like it ever. The church was packed to overflowing with just as many folk outside so the church quickly assembled a pa system to relay the service outside. :cool:
My experience of the private sector has been the reverse. Parents non academic, correctly recognising high IQ in their offspring, dug deep and sent him. And you'd recognise that young man now, on your TV.
Hhhmm.....need a better clue than that! And if you mean some 'soap' actor i'm afraid the only one i know of is Ken Barlow!
My experience of the private sector has been the reverse. Parents non academic, correctly recognising high IQ in their offspring, dug deep and sent him. And you'd recognise that young man now, on your TV.
BIB - This was the case with my parents, except they are both very academic. They are not rich and have sacrificed A LOT to be able to afford a private education for my little brother because they recognised that the was very intelligent, just not the type of guy to be able to thrive in a state school. In a state school he probably would have been a target for bullies. He was very serious, a bit geeky, shy, didn't like to socialise and was quite reserved and sensitive. But he became very popular once he changed schools.
It was a mega huge shock.....but his funeral really was something else. Never been to one like it ever. The church was packed to overflowing with just as many folk outside so the church quickly assembled a pa system to relay the service outside. :cool:
The guy was like a 'rock star'!
Hhhmm.....need a better clue than that! And if you mean some 'soap' actor i'm afraid the only one i know of is Ken Barlow!
No, not soap. Armstrong and Miller, Outnumbered, and some stuff you definitely wouldn't have seen, being aimed at persons rather younger than you and I:D
It's bollocks, isn't it:D Polys did a great job for loads of youngsters. Maybe this is why the engineering sector is so short of good people. I know about a dozen people my age with HNDs, all had reasonable to good careers, all still sought after, all saying that there's nobody to take their place when they retire.
It is to me as i was in education at a time when 'clever' people went to University and 'thick' people (like me ) went to a Polytechnic. But we aren't supposed to call anyone 'thick' now so a neat way of getting rid of that was re-branding colleges into 'Universities'.
I find it all rather hilarious.
I'd always fancied going into engineering but would never have made it as i can't cope with figures......because i'm 'thick'. Spelling fine no problem, but figures......uff.....a total blank and have to use a calculator for the most basic figure work. Of course they now have some fancy name for that too so i don't have to say i'm 'thick' at maths.
I know a number of highly qualified engineers but one in particular stands out way above the rest.....because he has zero qualifications. Seriously!
Left school at 15 with no qualifications and got a job as tea boy and sweeper at a small engineering business. But he just had a natural affinity for engineering. Similar to Fred Dibnah if you like. His ability to comprehend mathematical equations comes as easy as falling off a log.....yet he cannot spell even the most basic of words and his writing is atrocious!
54 years later he is still working at the same place and pretty much runs it!
Sadly, that does sound a bit grim:o There are a few bad apples. However, quite a few of the less academic ones are actually achieving good things for less academic kids. The world is not populated by straight A students, there are good schools for dyslexics, sporting heroes, and the simply Tim, nice but dims of this world. Obviously, they are not going to make Oxbridge, Durham, a career in hedge funds, nor at a top auction house. They may well still have the max extracted from them, which has to be good.
There are a lot of great private schools for non-academic children and they turn out confident, successful adults. To be fair to my BIL he's very successful now, but it took him a while to get focused, and I'm not sure it was worth his parents spending 30 grand a year for him to watch TV.
It is to me as i was in education at a time when 'clever' people went to University and 'thick' people (like me ) went to a Polytechnic. But we aren't supposed to call anyone 'thick' now so a neat way of getting rid of that was re-branding colleges into 'Universities'.
I find it all rather hilarious.
I'd always fancied going into engineering but would never have made it as i can't cope with figures......because i'm 'thick'. Spelling fine no problem, but figures......uff.....a total blank and have to use a calculator for the most basic figure work. Of course they now have some fancy name for that too so i don't have to say i'm 'thick' at maths.
I know a number of highly qualified engineers but one in particular stands out way above the rest.....because he has zero qualifications. Seriously!
Left school at 15 with no qualifications and got a job as tea boy and sweeper at a small engineering business. But he just had a natural affinity for engineering. Similar to Fred Dibnah if you like. His ability to comprehend mathematical equations comes as easy as falling off a log.....yet he cannot spell even the most basic of words and his writing is atrocious!
54 years later he is still working at the same place and pretty much runs it!
No, not soap. Armstrong and Miller, Outnumbered, and some stuff you definitely wouldn't have seen, being aimed at persons rather younger than you and I:D
Never even heard of Outnumbered. The only name i recognise is Alexander Armstrong and that's only from his occasional appearance chairing HIGNFY.
There are those who think you can make a silk purse from a sows ear and always will be. They think 'brain' is packaged on a shelf which is bought. A friend of mine came from a wealthy family background and both he and his sister went through private education. On his own admittance a total waste of his parents money as he simply never was and never would be an 'academic'. About the only thing he came out with was a 'plummy' accent and a job as a Salesman!
However he excelled in car mechanics which was a passion we both shared and spent endless evenings into the early hours in each others Garages on a variety of cars.
He was killed in a head on collision at just 48 years old returning home from work. The previous evening i'd been working on a car with him in his Garage.
Poor guy,
It seems rather odd to think that the only justification for private school would be to become an 'academic'. Some private schools are have less emphasis on intellectual ability and more focus on sport, art, drama etc. They aim to develop well-rounded individuals rather than rocket scientists.
You have my sympathy. I'm numerically dyslexic . But never considered myself "thick". Others may have
TBH seeing myself as 'thick' at maths never bothered me because i made up for it with spelling and reading. When in primary and junior school i was shocked at the number of kids who could barely read....something i'd always taken as granted.
The only numerics my head can cope with and remember in sequence are the registration plates of every car my father owned and the cars i've owned. Which is very useful eh?!! :D
It seems rather odd to think that the only justification for private school would be to become an 'academic'. Some private schools are have less emphasis on intellectual ability and more focus on sport, art, drama etc. They aim to develop well-rounded individuals rather than rocket scientists.
Not become.....simply the fact he never was. Some people are naturally academic whilst others are not. Being academic doesn't necessarily make the person better or a higher achiever than the non-academic though that's what is often portrayed.
The engineer friend with zero qualification i mentioned is a perfect example of that.
It seems rather odd to think that the only justification for private school would be to become an 'academic'. Some private schools are have less emphasis on intellectual ability and more focus on sport, art, drama etc. They aim to develop well-rounded individuals rather than rocket scientists.
Exactly.
A friend of mine is ridiculously filthy rich, as is his whole family. He only has one child who is the only heir to everything. He couldn't care less if she is academic or not, as she would only ever have to work for fun. He sent her to the most expensive private school not to become an academic, but to have fun.
In my experience quite the opposite - private school kids tend to have little real life experience and are often lacking in confidence.
But it's mainly down the kids, a clever student will do well where ever he/she goes, and a poor student will do badly where ever they are. Depending on how the specific schools work lower ability students may well get a better education in a state school.
An obvious advantage of private schools though is longer school hours, so they get more time actually in school - probably because the parents want rid of them!
I have to respectfully take issue at some of these comments. We lost my daughter's father a few months before she was due to go onto secondary school. We would have gratefully sent her to the school where all her friends were going - but were half a mile out of the catchment area and the alternative was bussing her to a sink school that had previously been in news when the pupils trashed the reception area and the GCSEs were halted as a result.
After three months of agonising, I enrolled her in a private school where she spent five years. During that time I lived on charity shop clothes and we had no holidays or luxuries at all. I became an expert at making nourishing soups! She was never academic and always struggled - many days it was a problem getting her to school at all. But the school was so understanding, - they embraced her as part of their family and always encouraged her to be the best person she possibly could.
She never managed a top uni, but achieved enough qualifications to scrape a degree. What was most important is the confidence and social skills she acquired during her years at her secondary school. They really cared for her.
She is now a happy and confident adult living and teaching abroad.
I absolutely know and believe that I made the right choice and never regret for a moment the sacrifices we made to send her to a private school. But hey - just one person's experience! ;-)
I have to respectfully take issue at some of these comments. We lost my daughter's father a few months before she was due to go onto secondary school. We would have gratefully sent her to the school where all her friends were going - but were half a mile out of the catchment area and the alternative was bussing her to a sink school that had previously been in news when the pupils trashed the reception area and the GCSEs were halted as a result.
After three months of agonising, I enrolled her in a private school where she spent five years. During that time I lived on charity shop clothes and we had no holidays or luxuries at all. I became an expert at making nourishing soups! She was never academic and always struggled - many days it was a problem getting her to school at all. But the school was so understanding, - they embraced her as part of their family and always encouraged her to be the best person she possibly could.
She never managed a top uni, but achieved enough qualifications to scrape a degree. What was most important is the confidence and social skills she acquired during her years at her secondary school. They really cared for her.
She is now a happy and confident adult living and teaching abroad.
I absolutely know and believe that I made the right choice and never regret for a moment the sacrifices we made to send her to a private school. But hey - just one person's experience! ;-)
Not become.....simply the fact he never was. Some people are naturally academic whilst others are not. Being academic doesn't necessarily make the person better or a higher achiever than the non-academic though that's what is often portrayed.
The engineer friend with zero qualification i mentioned is a perfect example of that.
We're talking at cross purposes. You said 'become an academic'. 'An academic' (noun) is someone who teaches at university level. It seems what you actually meant was 'become academic' (adjective).
Either way, you don't have to be academically gifted to justify going to private school.
We're talking at cross purposes. You said 'become an academic'. 'An academic' (noun) is someone who teaches at university level. It seems what you actually meant was 'become academic' (adjective).
Either way, you don't have to be academically gifted to justify going to private school.
There's one just down the road from us which has a great rep for dyslexic kids, and for music and drama. You don't send your kids there if they are destined for Oxbridge, but they've got loads of kids to uni who've been virtually written off by the state system. And I'm sure you could find others similar. I think that's the kind of justification you are meaning?
I went to a Public school (in fact I went to one of the oldest girl's school in the country), I would say that I did better than I would have done at a state school because I was made to work, I was quite lazy to be honest and when I did go to the local college for my A'level's I bunked off a lot of the time because there wasn't that routine. At school there was no way of not going in unless you were ill (in which case you were in sick bay and you had to get the matron to admit you) or at the dentist(and if you were lucky you got to go on the bus with a sixth former and were able to spend a bit of time out looking in shops otherwise one of the matrons took you). Yes being a boarder wasn't great, you couldn't get away from that bully for example but you had your friends around you 24/7 and it was like a little family.
What I did get from school was a sense of belonging, a sense of pride, even today my old school friends and I are proud of where we went to school. I have fond memories of my teachers who were all enthusiastic about their subjects and who all encouraged us to achieve the best we could (even if that did mean telling me I wouldn't pass my French GCSE, I did so it obviously worked!). I was able to have music lessons, we had great Science labs specific to the subject, we had several art rooms, a textiles room, a good library, great sports facilities.
What I dislike is the notion that everyone who went to public school are rich and have no life experiences and that we should be ashamed that we were given the chance in life that we were when others aren't. I only went to a state primary for 2 years the rest of the time I was abroad so I was at Forces Schools or an International School so I can only really give the one side but boarding school meant that I was able to settle down for once. My teachers were all inspiring, the housemistresses and matrons were some lovely women, and the headmistress was one formidable lady.
If I could give my future child the same opportunities that I had (and we keep joking that we want our future child to go to Harrow) then I would. I grew up to be a very independent, very strong minded, very individual person. I think a lot of that came from school and how they treated their pupils and how they .instilled in us a sense of pride in doing the best that we could.
Comments
I very much doubt if any of them are stupid as to think that. They just want to do everything they can for their kids. Don't we all? Even Diane Abbott.
Not every city, and it's more a question of a 'good' Uni and a 'poor' Uni
Derby for example only has a 'poor' Uni - although it's excellent as a teacher training college, which is what it was originally.
So in my own experience some private schools are good some are bad, like with state and grammar schools.
If I have kids I would like them to go private, but if they hate it and want to go state or grammar, absolutely fine. Likewise if I can't afford it, state all the way! Different schools benefit different children and if you have a good state school in your area, then everyone wins.
Link
However he excelled in car mechanics which was a passion we both shared and spent endless evenings into the early hours in each others Garages on a variety of cars.
He was killed in a head on collision at just 48 years old returning home from work. The previous evening i'd been working on a car with him in his Garage.
Sad story, bulletguy.
My experience of the private sector has been the reverse. Parents non academic, correctly recognising high IQ in their offspring, dug deep and sent him. And you'd recognise that young man now, on your TV.
It's bollocks, isn't it:D Polys did a great job for loads of youngsters. Maybe this is why the engineering sector is so short of good people. I know about a dozen people my age with HNDs, all had reasonable to good careers, all still sought after, all saying that there's nobody to take their place when they retire.
The guy was like a 'rock star'!
Hhhmm.....need a better clue than that! And if you mean some 'soap' actor i'm afraid the only one i know of is Ken Barlow!
BIB - This was the case with my parents, except they are both very academic. They are not rich and have sacrificed A LOT to be able to afford a private education for my little brother because they recognised that the was very intelligent, just not the type of guy to be able to thrive in a state school. In a state school he probably would have been a target for bullies. He was very serious, a bit geeky, shy, didn't like to socialise and was quite reserved and sensitive. But he became very popular once he changed schools.
No, not soap. Armstrong and Miller, Outnumbered, and some stuff you definitely wouldn't have seen, being aimed at persons rather younger than you and I:D
I find it all rather hilarious.
I'd always fancied going into engineering but would never have made it as i can't cope with figures......because i'm 'thick'. Spelling fine no problem, but figures......uff.....a total blank and have to use a calculator for the most basic figure work. Of course they now have some fancy name for that too so i don't have to say i'm 'thick' at maths.
I know a number of highly qualified engineers but one in particular stands out way above the rest.....because he has zero qualifications. Seriously!
Left school at 15 with no qualifications and got a job as tea boy and sweeper at a small engineering business. But he just had a natural affinity for engineering. Similar to Fred Dibnah if you like. His ability to comprehend mathematical equations comes as easy as falling off a log.....yet he cannot spell even the most basic of words and his writing is atrocious!
54 years later he is still working at the same place and pretty much runs it!
http://www.taylormadecastings.co.uk/
There are a lot of great private schools for non-academic children and they turn out confident, successful adults. To be fair to my BIL he's very successful now, but it took him a while to get focused, and I'm not sure it was worth his parents spending 30 grand a year for him to watch TV.
You have my sympathy. I'm numerically dyslexic . But never considered myself "thick". Others may have
It seems rather odd to think that the only justification for private school would be to become an 'academic'. Some private schools are have less emphasis on intellectual ability and more focus on sport, art, drama etc. They aim to develop well-rounded individuals rather than rocket scientists.
The only numerics my head can cope with and remember in sequence are the registration plates of every car my father owned and the cars i've owned. Which is very useful eh?!!
The engineer friend with zero qualification i mentioned is a perfect example of that.
Exactly.
A friend of mine is ridiculously filthy rich, as is his whole family. He only has one child who is the only heir to everything. He couldn't care less if she is academic or not, as she would only ever have to work for fun. He sent her to the most expensive private school not to become an academic, but to have fun.
I have to respectfully take issue at some of these comments. We lost my daughter's father a few months before she was due to go onto secondary school. We would have gratefully sent her to the school where all her friends were going - but were half a mile out of the catchment area and the alternative was bussing her to a sink school that had previously been in news when the pupils trashed the reception area and the GCSEs were halted as a result.
After three months of agonising, I enrolled her in a private school where she spent five years. During that time I lived on charity shop clothes and we had no holidays or luxuries at all. I became an expert at making nourishing soups! She was never academic and always struggled - many days it was a problem getting her to school at all. But the school was so understanding, - they embraced her as part of their family and always encouraged her to be the best person she possibly could.
She never managed a top uni, but achieved enough qualifications to scrape a degree. What was most important is the confidence and social skills she acquired during her years at her secondary school. They really cared for her.
She is now a happy and confident adult living and teaching abroad.
I absolutely know and believe that I made the right choice and never regret for a moment the sacrifices we made to send her to a private school. But hey - just one person's experience! ;-)
Awww that's such a lovely story. Well done!
We're talking at cross purposes. You said 'become an academic'. 'An academic' (noun) is someone who teaches at university level. It seems what you actually meant was 'become academic' (adjective).
Either way, you don't have to be academically gifted to justify going to private school.
There's one just down the road from us which has a great rep for dyslexic kids, and for music and drama. You don't send your kids there if they are destined for Oxbridge, but they've got loads of kids to uni who've been virtually written off by the state system. And I'm sure you could find others similar. I think that's the kind of justification you are meaning?
What I did get from school was a sense of belonging, a sense of pride, even today my old school friends and I are proud of where we went to school. I have fond memories of my teachers who were all enthusiastic about their subjects and who all encouraged us to achieve the best we could (even if that did mean telling me I wouldn't pass my French GCSE, I did so it obviously worked!). I was able to have music lessons, we had great Science labs specific to the subject, we had several art rooms, a textiles room, a good library, great sports facilities.
What I dislike is the notion that everyone who went to public school are rich and have no life experiences and that we should be ashamed that we were given the chance in life that we were when others aren't. I only went to a state primary for 2 years the rest of the time I was abroad so I was at Forces Schools or an International School so I can only really give the one side but boarding school meant that I was able to settle down for once. My teachers were all inspiring, the housemistresses and matrons were some lovely women, and the headmistress was one formidable lady.
If I could give my future child the same opportunities that I had (and we keep joking that we want our future child to go to Harrow) then I would. I grew up to be a very independent, very strong minded, very individual person. I think a lot of that came from school and how they treated their pupils and how they .instilled in us a sense of pride in doing the best that we could.