My opinion is pretty clear. If we accept guilt then we should make amends. If we accept guilt but don't make amends then that is a stain on the charecter of the country.
I've always struggled with the idea of original sin.
I didn't do it, I wasn't around when it happened to try and stop it. I don't accept I'm guilty of anything*.
But hey I'm sure we could come to some arrangement to hand over a portion of the interest on the Danegeld when they pay it back.
Should Italy pay reparations for Britons enslaved by Romans?
Or Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, and Libya, compensating Europe for the Barbary Pirates.
Absurd as it is once you lay down the principle of compensating for slavery not only do you have the problems of setting down the level of that compensation - but you open a real can of worms as it was so widespread and for centuries,
Should Britain pay compensation to Jamaica for it's role in the Atlantic slave trade?
The British governments position that reparations 'not the right approach' is somewhat absurd and patronising. It acknowledges culpability but refuse to engage with adequate remedy.
Will the British People be compensated for the abduction and enslavement of white Britons by muslamic barbary corsairs? Will Britain receive substantial reparations from tunisia, algeria and libya for the psychological and physical torment, financial damage and human suffering inflicted upon generations of innocent white Britons? It is time that muslamic culture faced upto it's heinous deeds and pay out compensation for all it's ill-gotten wealth generated by the brutal enslavement of white British men, women and children.
A large percentage of Jamaicans are of mixed race, no doubt they are descendants of slavers, do they sue themselves ?
One of my ancestors was captured by Barbary pirates and took to North Africa as a white slave, who do I sue ?
Both my grandparents were killed in ww2 can I sue the Germans and Italians ?
How far back can we go to get money off the descendants of people who did something to our ancestors ?
I've got lots more claims to make
The Germans made reparations.
Did those mixed race children of slavers share the family wealth. I expect they were treated as iligitimate children.
Jamaicans were forcibly removed from their country - they themselves weren't complicit and the country became a population of emancipated slaves.
The British ancestors of slavers today appear to be wealthy, the outcome of the huge benefits derived from slave money, but ancestors of slaves appear to be poor - without any real benefits from their grandparents being slaves.
So what you are talking about is Darwinism in its fullest form, people reach their true potential given enough time to evolve. The rich will always be rich and the poor will always be poor, with or without the slave trade the position would be the same. The greatest people on the planet will always achieve great things, they can spot an opportunity and jump on it as it arises. The poor remain poor because they have no desire to change, they are riven and paralysed by tradition, religion and often ignorance and laziness. The fact that you are talking about poor people now and not 200 years ago shows how they have not attempted to better themselves or improve their lot. Rather they would try leach off the back of todays rich with some sob story about downtrodden ancestors. It is simply pathetic.
Maybe we should give say, £100 000 to each Jamaican and then transport them back to the east coast of Africa.
We could then take the now empty Jamaica back and use it as a holiday island for the British.
I think it could pay for itself in the long run.
I'm not sure the Jamaicans would be up for it though.
Should the British government pay compensation? No definately not, if the descendents of slaves think they have a case then they should trace the families of the slavers and sue them privately, and not forgetting the Spanish who owned great areas of the Caribbean as well. Then maybe those in the South of England should trace and sue the families of the middle-east peoples and like the Ottoman Empire for their slave trade in the middle-ages, as they used to regularly raid the South Coast and take people to sell into slavery in Africa and the middle east.
Slavery was undoubtibly a shameful episode but it wasen't just a British thing, most nations took part in it, and some areas of the world still do.
I've always struggled with the idea of original sin.
I didn't do it, I wasn't around when it happened to try and stop it. I don't accept I'm guilty of anything*.
But hey I'm sure we could come to some arrangement to hand over a portion of the interest on the Danegeld when they pay it back.
*well I'm guilty of many things, but not slavery
What if you've benefited from it directly? In a sense we all have in post industrial Britain. Our position in the world today is in part an outcome of this particular piece of history.
So what you are talking about is Darwinism in its fullest form, people reach their true potential given enough time to evolve. The rich will always be rich and the poor will always be poor, with or without the slave trade the position would be the same. The greatest people on the planet will always achieve great things, they can spot an opportunity and jump on it as it arises. The poor remain poor because they have no desire to change, they are riven and paralysed by tradition, religion and often ignorance and laziness. The fact that you are talking about poor people now and not 200 years ago shows how they have not attempted to better themselves or improve their lot. Rather they would try leach off the back of todays rich with some sob story about downtrodden ancestors. It is simply pathetic.
Wow what a post. I can sense your aching to say it's all down to genetics.
The why question is pretty obvious. If your ancestors were poor then the generations to come will have more difficulty than if their ancestors were wealthy.
I don't now how. I expect a mutually agreeable negotiation between the countries could take place.
Before the how though the should be sorted out.
but how can you go back 7 generations to prove that poverty affects you now when people within single generations have gone from families with nothing to being multi-millionaires ?
It's all a bit bogus to assume that everyone's ancestors actually benefited from slavery. What about those who lost work because slave labour was cheaper? Why should their descendants be expected to pay for the very actions that contributed to their ancestors misery?
Wow what a post. I can sense your aching to say it's all down to genetics.
On the contrary, great people evolve under the correct circumstances, nurture versus nature so to speak. But when a group of people choose to not progress as a result of tradition, culture, religion, ignorance or laziness that is another matter.
Skin colour, ethnicity, genetics, call it what you like, are in no way related to greatness or wealth. There are people of all creeds doing very nicely around the globe and they will all have one thing in common, that is drive and determination to better themselves, improve their lot and take control of their own destiny. Sure, that no doubt along their individual journeys they will have trodden on a few fingers and toes and used their elbows so to speak but that it is the name of the game, dog eat dog, survival of the fittest etc.
Alternatively, you can just sit there and do bugger all for 200 years and hold your hands out.
It's all a bit bogus to assume that everyone's ancestors actually benefited from slavery. What about those who lost work because slave labour was cheaper? Why should their descendants be expected to pay for the very actions that contributed to their ancestors misery?
You'll need to explain that to me.
How did British people lose work to slaves on sugar plantations in Jamaica?
The economic impact on Britain and jobs would have been wholly beneficial.
Comments
I've always struggled with the idea of original sin.
I didn't do it, I wasn't around when it happened to try and stop it. I don't accept I'm guilty of anything*.
But hey I'm sure we could come to some arrangement to hand over a portion of the interest on the Danegeld when they pay it back.
*well I'm guilty of many things, but not slavery
Or Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, and Libya, compensating Europe for the Barbary Pirates.
Absurd as it is once you lay down the principle of compensating for slavery not only do you have the problems of setting down the level of that compensation - but you open a real can of worms as it was so widespread and for centuries,
If you go back in my family tree, there were slaves.
I would never want money, however, it does feel weird/uncomfortable knowing that there were slaves in the family.
No, it's not so hard even you could do it.
The Germans made reparations.
Did those mixed race children of slavers share the family wealth. I expect they were treated as iligitimate children.
Either tweak it or don't point out it can be tweaked!
So what you are talking about is Darwinism in its fullest form, people reach their true potential given enough time to evolve. The rich will always be rich and the poor will always be poor, with or without the slave trade the position would be the same. The greatest people on the planet will always achieve great things, they can spot an opportunity and jump on it as it arises. The poor remain poor because they have no desire to change, they are riven and paralysed by tradition, religion and often ignorance and laziness. The fact that you are talking about poor people now and not 200 years ago shows how they have not attempted to better themselves or improve their lot. Rather they would try leach off the back of todays rich with some sob story about downtrodden ancestors. It is simply pathetic.
We could then take the now empty Jamaica back and use it as a holiday island for the British.
I think it could pay for itself in the long run.
I'm not sure the Jamaicans would be up for it though.
Slavery was undoubtibly a shameful episode but it wasen't just a British thing, most nations took part in it, and some areas of the world still do.
What if you've benefited from it directly? In a sense we all have in post industrial Britain. Our position in the world today is in part an outcome of this particular piece of history.
Wow what a post. I can sense your aching to say it's all down to genetics.
Have you a link to German reparations to Britain, because I can't find any ?
but how can you go back 7 generations to prove that poverty affects you now when people within single generations have gone from families with nothing to being multi-millionaires ?
Germany made reparations to the British Government, not compensation to individuals affected by the war.
Are there plenty of high vis jacket wearing opportunities or is it a fish pointing trip?
On the contrary, great people evolve under the correct circumstances, nurture versus nature so to speak. But when a group of people choose to not progress as a result of tradition, culture, religion, ignorance or laziness that is another matter.
Skin colour, ethnicity, genetics, call it what you like, are in no way related to greatness or wealth. There are people of all creeds doing very nicely around the globe and they will all have one thing in common, that is drive and determination to better themselves, improve their lot and take control of their own destiny. Sure, that no doubt along their individual journeys they will have trodden on a few fingers and toes and used their elbows so to speak but that it is the name of the game, dog eat dog, survival of the fittest etc.
Alternatively, you can just sit there and do bugger all for 200 years and hold your hands out.
The Jamaicans aren't requesting compensations to individuals
What about the Irish who enslaved English people. Ironically Saint Patrick was one of those taken.
Are "the Jamaicans" requesting compensation at all? I thought it was just one individual.
Or, you could have asked politely and you might have got a better response.
Not sure on financial compensation bit I know we used german POW fit labour as part of reparations.
My apologies, please can you tweak it.
You'll need to explain that to me.
How did British people lose work to slaves on sugar plantations in Jamaica?
The economic impact on Britain and jobs would have been wholly beneficial.