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Clinically dead pregnant woman being kept alive on life support

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    epicurianepicurian Posts: 19,291
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    In reality it doesn't matter one iota what the grandparents want or what circumstances the baby will be born into (for better or for worse), the fact remains that in Ireland pregnant women have the same rights as dogs. I really hope for a positive outcome in this case but the clause needs to change - women cannot become imprisoned to their wombs the minute they become pregnant .

    I was just about to post similar sentiments. Why is anyone talking about the wishes of the mother as though it would make a difference if she were alive?
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    irishfeenirishfeen Posts: 10,025
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    Which part? I thought this was a debate, if you have something to say against my points, say them.
    "fact remains that in Ireland pregnant women have the same rights as dogs" ... You do realise the Irish people voted for this in our constitution - and yes women do have a right to vote.
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    Cheetah666Cheetah666 Posts: 16,036
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    epicurian wrote: »
    I was just about to post similar sentiments. Why is anyone talking about the wishes of the mother as though it would make a difference if she were alive?

    Because it would. In very, very restricted circumstances she could terminate her pregnancy in Ireland, and in any circumstances she chose she could travel to another country to have an abortion.
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    irishfeenirishfeen Posts: 10,025
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    epicurian wrote: »
    I was just about to post similar sentiments. Why is anyone talking about the wishes of the mother as though it would make a difference if she were alive?
    Of course it's different - as far as we know this child would have been born according to the wishes to its loving mother. She could also have travelled for an abortion or have the child up for adoption.

    I bet the vast majority of mothers would die willingly for their baby if they had to.
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    epicurianepicurian Posts: 19,291
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    Cheetah666 wrote: »
    Because it would. In very, very restricted circumstances she could terminate her pregnancy in Ireland, and in any circumstances she chose she could travel to another country to have an abortion.

    It's not good enough, in my opinion.
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    epicurianepicurian Posts: 19,291
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    irishfeen wrote: »
    Of course it's different - as far as we know this child would have been born according to the wishes to its loving mother.

    I bet the vast majority of mothers would die willingly for their baby if they had to.

    I'm talking in general about the lack of reproductive rights in the ROI.
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    irishfeenirishfeen Posts: 10,025
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    epicurian wrote: »
    It's not good enough, in my opinion.
    Maybe not to you but it's the wish of the people of Ireland at this very moment.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 89
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    irishfeen wrote: »
    "fact remains that in Ireland pregnant women have the same rights as dogs" ... You do realise the Irish people voted for this in our constitution - and yes women do have a right to vote.

    30 years ago you mean, in 1983. There has been calls to repeal the 8th amendment which have fallen on Enda Kennys deaf ignorant ears.
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    Wolfman13Wolfman13 Posts: 1,579
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    Cheetah666 wrote: »
    Because it would. In very, very restricted circumstances she could terminate her pregnancy in Ireland, and in any circumstances she chose she could travel to another country to have an abortion.

    Out of curiosity has the law in the Republic of Ireland changed on that as wasn't that illegal?
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    Cheetah666Cheetah666 Posts: 16,036
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    epicurian wrote: »
    It's not good enough, in my opinion.


    Its not good enough in my opinion either, but still not the same as pregnant women having no more rights than dogs. That's just hyperbole.
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    anne_666anne_666 Posts: 72,891
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    irishfeen wrote: »
    Of course it's different - as far as we know this child would have been born according to the wishes to its loving mother. She could also have travelled for an abortion or have the child up for adoption.

    I bet the vast majority of mothers would die willingly for their baby if they had to.

    You mean if they chose to be pregnant and wanted to carry the baby? Any other choice is basically denied by single blokes in frocks in the luxurious Vatican. No barefoot and pregnant issues for them, unlike millions of women around the world . It's loving mother may just not have wanted her parents to be subjected to a living nightmare they clearly can't cope with.
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    Cheetah666Cheetah666 Posts: 16,036
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    Wolfman13 wrote: »
    Out of curiosity has the law in the Republic of Ireland changed on that as wasn't that illegal?

    The right to travel? That changed donkey's years ago, back when Albert Reynolds was Taoiseach. The right to travel is now enshrined in the constitution.
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    irishfeenirishfeen Posts: 10,025
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    30 years ago you mean, in 1983. There has been calls to repeal the 8th amendment which have fallen on Enda Kennys deaf ignorant ears.
    Tbh I actually think if a referendum was held in the morning to allow full abortion it would be defeated again. It is a very very divisive issue.

    Abortion in instances of abnormalities or rape would pass but aborting healthy children would fail by a considerable margin IMO.
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    epicurianepicurian Posts: 19,291
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    Cheetah666 wrote: »
    Its not good enough in my opinion either, but still not the same as pregnant women having no more rights than dogs. That's just hyperbole.

    Agreed.
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    anne_666anne_666 Posts: 72,891
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    Cheetah666 wrote: »
    The right to travel? That changed donkey's years ago, back when Albert Reynolds was Taoiseach. The right to travel is now enshrined in the constitution.

    Wow blatant hypocrisy, no surprise. No it's not good enough!
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    epicurianepicurian Posts: 19,291
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    irishfeen wrote: »
    Maybe not to you but it's the wish of the people of Ireland at this very moment.

    I don't care what the people of Ireland think at this very moment. I will never agree with reproductive rights being decided by mob rule.

    Is this going off topic? I can't tell.
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    anne_666anne_666 Posts: 72,891
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    irishfeen wrote: »
    Tbh I actually think if a referendum was held in the morning to allow full abortion it would be defeated again. It is a very very divisive issue.

    Abortion in instances of abnormalities or rape would pass but aborting healthy children would fail by a considerable margin IMO.

    Catholic brainwashing and fear, from birth, helps that along nicely.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 89
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    Cheetah666 wrote: »
    Its not good enough in my opinion either, but still not the same as pregnant women having no more rights than dogs. That's just hyperbole.

    I stand by my statement, women who are forced to travel for abortions due to any number of circumstances (including rape, foetal abnormality etc.) are treated like people who are not worthy of any compassion or sympathy. I'm not just talking about abortion either, how about the symphysiotomy scandal in the 1980s which the government is barely acknowledging.
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    Wolfman13Wolfman13 Posts: 1,579
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    Cheetah666 wrote: »
    The right to travel? That changed donkey's years ago, back when Albert Reynolds was Taoiseach. The right to travel is now enshrined in the constitution.

    Wasn't too sure so thanks for that. :)
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    irishfeenirishfeen Posts: 10,025
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    epicurian wrote: »
    I don't care what the people of Ireland think at this very moment. I will never agree with reproductive rights being decided by mob rule.

    Is this going off topic? I can't tell.
    Well it's not by mob rule, the state considers human life basically starts at conception... Men and woman have access to all necessary birth control if they want, it's not like condoms aren't freely available like years back.
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    StarpussStarpuss Posts: 12,845
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    As interesting as the abortion issue in Ireland is it is not relevant here. The poor woman is dead.

    So it is a question of what, if any, rights the foetus has.
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    Cheetah666Cheetah666 Posts: 16,036
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    I stand by my statement, women who are forced to travel for abortions due to any number of circumstances (including rape, foetal abnormality etc.) are treated like people who are not worthy of any compassion or sympathy. I'm not just talking about abortion either, how about the symphysiotomy scandal in the 1980s which the government is barely acknowledging.

    I fully agree that the laws should be changed and that stupid 8th amendment should never have been put in the constitution in the first place. As for the symphysiotomy scandal, what do you expect with Michael Noonan in charge of the purse strings? Don't you remember Brigid McCole?
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    irishfeenirishfeen Posts: 10,025
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    anne_666 wrote: »
    Catholic brainwashing and fear, from birth, helps that along nicely.
    Well I'm 23, not a big fan of all things Catholic church and I don't agree with the abortion of healthy children .. Gay Marriage in churches or whatever I completely support.
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    irishfeenirishfeen Posts: 10,025
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    Starpuss wrote: »
    As interesting as the abortion issue in Ireland is it is not relevant here. The poor woman is dead.

    So it is a question of what, if any, rights the foetus has.
    The foetus has the same rights as a toddler walking around or myself in accordance with our constitution.

    "as far as practicable" - these 4 words in our constitution will decide everything.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 89
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    Starpuss wrote: »
    As interesting as the abortion issue in Ireland is it is not relevant here. The poor woman is dead.

    So it is a question of what, if any, rights the foetus has.

    It has the same rights as the mother.
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