My son has autism and OCD, it was the OCD that caused the food phobias. Autism is such a huge spectrum no two children are the same though they share many common traits.
My attitude has been that I will ensure my child leads as normal a life as possible and stuff other people's attitudes. If I knew my son was going to be distressed I'd protect him unless not to do so was in his interest.
I am thinking there of CBT which is exposure therapy with another name where you have to gently expose them to their fears in order for them to overcome them. That was for the OCD behaviours not the ASD related ones.
Had I have given in to every fear he wouldn't now be able to go into sweet shops, restaurants, food shops etc without any difficulty. We had to get through pain barriers to get him well enough to be able to do that and people stared and they judged but getting him well was more important than judgemental people.
Thankfully being guided by CAMHS, his consultant there was terrific.
Don't get me wrong! My brother and his wife are fantastic parents and are very well-informed on autism and what's best for their son. I just remember them saying about the time they brought him to a cafe and how it was rather stressful for all concerned. I really admire them for their patience and tolerance and I know I wouldn't be able to cope half as well as them under the circumstances.
People stare for all kinds of reasons. I have a sister with Down's Syndrome so i'm used to people staring even though she was doing nothing out of the ordinary. when I was younger it embarrassed me but now I either take no notice or just blatantly stare back at them!
Don't get me wrong! My brother and his wife are fantastic parents and are very well-informed on autism and what's best for their son. I just remember them saying about the time they brought him to a cafe and how it was rather stressful for all concerned. I really admire them for their patience and tolerance and I know I wouldn't be able to cope half as well as them under the circumstances.
People stare for all kinds of reasons. I have a sister with Down's Syndrome so i'm used to people staring even though she was doing nothing out of the ordinary. when I was younger it embarrassed me but now I either take no notice or just blatantly stare back at them!
I am sure they are, they have to be, being parents of an autistic child. The point I am trying to make is that while it might be right for their child to keep him out of restaurants, for others who may be able to learn how to cope with restaurants it is the right thing for the child to go through the pain barrier.
In the case I have mentioned it was totally not planned, it just happened, it was in the early days of the OCD when I was still very much in the learning curve.
If he got phobic about a food in one school restaurant, that school would punish him for fleeing from that food. It was fight for flight, his choice is always flight. This made his food phobias worse. I had to remove him from that school they were just too cruel, he finally became suicidal. It was more than just that but specific to eating out and the thread.
I moved him to another school when he fled through fear, and they took him to the head, who understood it was fear, so took him to the chef, arranged code words and sentences, showed him where the food was prepared, assured him that the food was "safe food" and devised ways for him to tell the chef of his distress without embarrassing himself infront of the other children.
He could then eat in a school restaurant without any difficulties. I could have taken him home and given him sandwiches at home but for him, removing him wasnt the answer, teaching him how to interact around food was the answer.
Sometimes the pain has to be gone through to get the child to the other side so for the rest of their lifetimes they can cope, other times parents would come to different decisions because their children are different.
All I am asking people is not to be quick to judge because they don't always know what it is they are really seeing.
I am sure they are, they have to be, being parents of an autistic child. The point I am trying to make is that while it might be right for their child to keep him out of restaurants, for others who may be able to learn how to cope with restaurants it is the right thing for the child to go through the pain barrier.
In the case I have mentioned it was totally not planned, it just happened, it was in the early days of the OCD when I was still very much in the learning curve.
If he got phobic about a food in one school restaurant, that school would punish him for fleeing from that food. It was fight for flight, his choice is always flight. This made his food phobias worse. I had to remove him from that school they were just too cruel, he finally became suicidal. It was more than just that but specific to eating out and the thread.
I moved him to another school when he fled through fear, and they took him to the head, who understood it was fear, so took him to the chef, arranged code words and sentences, showed him where the food was prepared, assured him that the food was "safe food" and devised ways for him to tell the chef of his distress without embarrassing himself infront of the other children.
He could then eat in a school restaurant without any difficulties. I could have taken him home and given him sandwiches at home but for him, removing him wasnt the answer, teaching him how to interact around food was the answer.
Sometimes the pain has to be gone through to get the child to the other side so for the rest of their lifetimes they can cope, other times parents would come to different decisions because their children are different.
All I am asking people is not to be quick to judge because they don't always know what it is they are really seeing.
but when this happened with your child did you keep them in the restaurant or take him outside?
The kid in the chinese banging the glasses with chopsticks might have been hyperactive but the parent should have taken them outside to calm down and not irritate other people for over an hour.
its not the fcat the child cries or starts being naughty or anything, it is the fact the parents allow them to carry on that annoys me.
but when this happened with your child did you keep them in the restaurant or take him outside?
The kid in the chinese banging the glasses with chopsticks might have been hyperactive but the parent should have taken them outside to calm down and not irritate other people for over an hour.
its not the fcat the child cries or starts being naughty or anything, it is the fact the parents allow them to carry on that annoys me.
The time I was referring to I tried to get him out but he was shaking under a table in sheer terror, he was about eight at the time maybe nine. I did manage to get him out but it wasn't quick. This was not planned it was a meltdown that I didn't foresee. It was early days for us.
When it came to getting him to go into supermarkets and sweetshops, after we'd got a lot of help from CAMHS and his outside councillors, we did a lot of exposure work at home to the foods so that when it came to it, the trauma wasn't so bad.
It still took several weeks of trying to get him further and further into supermarkets starting just aiming for the customer services desk then going a bit deeper and a bit deeper with each visit.
Now we go to sweetshops, supermarkets, restaurants and he is brilliantly behaved, in fact he is likely to tell off adults if they are rude and push in which does make me laugh.
I know people judged us, one woman even screamed obscenties at me, stupid stupid cow that she was. People see a snapshot, judge and can be clueless as to the realities of the situation.
Many many parents of children with ADHD< OCD, Autism, Tourettes or other mental health conditions have experienced this.
In fact a friend of mine had cards saying "he's acting odd because he has autism, what's your excuse for staring/being rude".
All I am asking people is not to be quick to judge because they don't always know what it is they are really seeing.
Possibly they don't-but that fact still doesn't change the fact that they're possibly having a meal out that they're paying for ruined by someone else's disruptive child. Why should people be expected to tolerate that?
I do understand and sympathise with parents who have children who have problems like your son. It must make it so much worse everyone being judgemental, maybe if those whose children do not have problems, could make sure their children behave (eg: taking the chopsticks off the child) then it might not be so bad for persons like yourself.
Possibly they don't-but that fact still doesn't change the fact that they're possibly having a meal out that they're paying for ruined by someone else's disruptive child. Why should people be expected to tolerate that?
There is that attitude, but it's not one that a parent of an autistic child who is severely distressed gives a sh^t at the time about to be honest. They should be grateful if the children in their family are healthy and well.
At the time when it happened to me, I was fully occupied in trying to calm the child and remove him from the situation which was admittedly a lose lose for everyone.
If people are so up their own arses that they can't empathise for a child in distress, then I wouldn't really care what they thought.
They wouldn't be the sort of people I'd want to count amongst my social circle.
I do understand and sympathise with parents who have children who have problems like your son. It must make it so much worse everyone being judgemental, maybe if those whose children do not have problems, could make sure their children behave (eg: taking the chopsticks off the child) then it might not be so bad for persons like yourself.
Thank you. xx
To be fair outside of school we only had one incident in a
restaurant which is the one I am referring to now. We did get a lot of help, we had outside counsellors a year of CAMHS teaching us about Cognitive Behavioural Therapy where you can teach the child to manage their fears. It's not quick and it takes so much work. We were lucky that CAMHS taught the family of the person with OCD how to manage the behaviours and to deal with the fears at the same time as they taught the children. I believe it was quite experimental but so successful.
The CBT was all about the OCD which is thought to be the most treatable of all mental health conditions.:D
As I said before we went back to a restaurant or shop of supermarket for that matter we did a whole pile of exposure therapies at home but the aim was always for the OCD not to be allowed to narrow his world to just his own home which would have been the case had we not followed CAMHS advice.
There is that attitude, but it's not one that a parent of an autistic child who is severely distressed gives a sh^t at the time about to be honest. They should be grateful if the children in their family are healthy and well.
At the time when it happened to me, I was fully occupied in trying to calm the child and remove him from the situation which was admittedly a lose lose for everyone.
If people are so up their own arses that they can't empathise for a child in distress, then I wouldn't really care what they thought.
They wouldn't be the sort of people I'd want to count amongst my social circle.
I see your point, but, to be fair, other people in the restaurant wouldn't know how much of an issue it was for your son.
I do understand and sympathise with parents who have children who have problems like your son. It must make it so much worse everyone being judgemental, maybe if those whose children do not have problems, could make sure their children behave (eg: taking the chopsticks off the child) then it might not be so bad for persons like yourself.
Completely agree. It's hard for people who don't know or understand these kinds of problems not to judge. They just assume all children making a fuss are brats.
One of my nephews has ADHD and he was a nightmare. His two younger brothers don't have ADHD but they are nightmares anyway because my sister can't be bothered to manage their behaviour properly.
I see your point, but, to be fair, other people in the restaurant wouldn't know how much of an issue it was for your son.
Which is why I am trying to say, don't be so quick to judge.
I've met some truly amazing people, most people are lovely, wonderful, understanding, helpful. I've had him panic in a queue to get on an airplane, new experiences, different sights, sounds, flying etc. Totally panicked. I needed to get him to a quiet place. He's very smart, articulate, looks a handsome young dude, so people can't see anything there, so it doesn't exist.
I had people in the queue helping me to keep him calm allowng me to run to the front of the queue to tell the airline staff he needed a quiet place. They were brilliant, that truly is the norm for us.
We have experiences like that all of the time where people couldn't be lovelier.
We also meet some of the up your own butt people too. Sadly.
Completely agree. It's hard for people who don't know or understand these kinds of problems not to judge. They just assume all children making a fuss are brats.
One of my nephews has ADHD and he was a nightmare. His two younger brothers don't have ADHD but they are nightmares anyway because my sister can't be bothered to manage their behaviour properly.
Again my voluntary work, assistance from autism support and counsellors has really helped me. The first thing I was taught was that having OCD and ASD is not an excuse for bad behaviour, if anything it is a reason for me to put in place firmer boundaries. It is a shame your sister hasn't had the same kind of support.
Sadly support for children with mental health issues can be a total postcode lottery. I've been lucky.
I am fortunate in that my child's condition means he can't lie so if he is naughty he tells me. In many ways for us it is a good behaviour disorder.
There is that attitude, but it's not one that a parent of an autistic child who is severely distressed gives a sh^t at the time about to be honest. They should be grateful if the children in their family are healthy and well.
At the time when it happened to me, I was fully occupied in trying to calm the child and remove him from the situation which was admittedly a lose lose for everyone.
If people are so up their own arses that they can't empathise for a child in distress, then I wouldn't really care what they thought.
They wouldn't be the sort of people I'd want to count amongst my social circle.
Personally, I doubt they give a damn whether you want them in your social circle-I certainly wouldn't. I'd just expect to be able to enjoy a meal I had paid for in a reasonably civilized atmosphere, and if I was being prevented from doing that, I'd inform the management that they could either stop the disturbance or I wouldn't be paying for the meal.
You seem to be missing the fairly essential point that if your kid is causing a disturbance and annoying other diners, he is causing a diusturbance and annoying other diners regardless of whether he has a legitimate excuse. His being ill rather than a brat doesn't stop it from ruining other people's night out. But of course, you're a parent, so you don't give a sh*t about that, right?
Personally, I doubt they give a damn whether you want them in your social circle-I certainly wouldn't. I'd just expect to be able to enjoy a meal I had paid for in a reasonably civilized atmosphere, and if I was being prevented from doing that, I'd inform the management that they could either stop the disturbance or I wouldn't be paying for the meal.
You seem to be missing the fairly essential point that if your kid is causing a disturbance and annoying other diners, he is causing a diusturbance and annoying other diners regardless of whether he has a legitimate excuse. His being ill rather than a brat doesn't stop it from ruining other people's night out. But of course, you're a parent, so you don't give a sh*t about that, right?
How could the management stop an autistic or an OCD meltdown. How ridiculous.
I wouldn't have missed any essential point at all, at the time I was fully occupied in dealing with "the disturbance" ie a child in severe distress, to care what a few small minded, superior than thou, know it all but know nothings thought of either of us.
Fortunately I've only been there once thank goodness, so no I wouldn't care whether you did or didn't pay for your meal but would think you were quiet a bizarre person to think that the management could manage a mental health meltdown of a child they don't know.
How could the management stop an autistic or an OCD meltdown. How ridiculous.
I wouldn't have missed any essential point at all, at the time I was fully occupied in dealing with "the disturbance" ie a child in severe distress, to care what a few small minded, superior than thou, know it all but know nothings thought of either of us.
Fortunately I've only been there once thank goodness, so no I wouldn't care whether you did or didn't pay for your meal but would think you were quiet a bizarre person to think that the management could manage a mental health meltdown of a child they don't know.
Again my voluntary work, assistance from autism support and counsellors has really helped me. The first thing I was taught was that having OCD and ASD is not an excuse for bad behaviour, if anything it is a reason for me to put in place firmer boundaries. It is a shame your sister hasn't had the same kind of support.
Sadly support for children with mental health issues can be a total postcode lottery. I've been lucky.
I am fortunate in that my child's condition means he can't lie so if he is naughty he tells me. In many ways for us it is a good behaviour disorder.
She had plenty of support with the ADHD one, both from the CMH unit and from me and the rest of the family.
The others are just brats. No excuses, just badly behaved because she doesn't discipline them. We all dread her turning up at our houses with them in tow because they are very destructive and won't take no for an answer and she just sits and watches. It's a horrible feeling to dread seeing your own nephews but that's the way it is, sadly.
I know what you mean about the support for mental health though. I'm bipolar and have had a rough ride trying to get help in managing it.
I'm somewhat baffled as to how MacDonald's= 'treat'. Taking a kid to MacDonald's seems more like a punishment than anything else. Their food really is vile.
How could the management stop an autistic or an OCD meltdown. How ridiculous.
I wouldn't have missed any essential point at all, at the time I was fully occupied in dealing with "the disturbance" ie a child in severe distress, to care what a few small minded, superior than thou, know it all but know nothings thought of either of us.
Exactly. You wouldn't give a damn that you were spoiling other diners enjoyment of their meal. You really aren't seeing this, are you? You simply assume that the whole world is obliged to make allowances. It isn't.
Fortunately I've only been there once thank goodness, so no I wouldn't care whether you did or didn't pay for your meal but would think you were quiet a bizarre person to think that the management could manage a mental health meltdown of a child they don't know.
They wouldn't need to 'manage' it. The obvious course of action would be to ask the individuals causing the nuisance to leave. Which I would expect them to do.
I love MacDonald's, i would eat MacDonald's every single day if it was not terrible for health.
There was a scientific experiment with babies that when given the choice of fast food or any other food, babies too young to understand publicity would choose fast food every single time. Yes it is a treat for Kids. It's like giving them candy or cakes.
Shame on all restaurants in the UK :mad:who do bugger all for kids. Good old McD's give out balloons and have plenty of stuff for children.
and its cheap and quick.:)
And that makes up for the food does it?
Besides, if you're after is cheap and quick it shows that you really don't care much about what the kids are eating and really don't want to spend much time there.
I love MacDonald's, i would eat MacDonald's every single day if it was not terrible for health.
There was a scientific experiment with babies that when given the choice of fast food or any other food, babies too young to understand publicity would choose fast food every single time. Yes it is a treat for Kids. It's like giving them candy or cakes.
Initially that is because they are the scents that they have already become accustomed to and therefore recognise, and following that it's because of the addictive additives in the food.
Exactly. You wouldn't give a damn that you were spoiling other diners enjoyment of their meal. You really aren't seeing this, are you? You simply assume that the whole world is obliged to make allowances. It isn't.They wouldn't need to 'manage' it. The obvious course of action would be to ask the individuals causing the nuisance to leave. Which I would expect them to do.
Bravo - Well said.....
It was probably too many trips to Maccy D's that contributed to their condition in the 1st place!!
Comments
Don't get me wrong! My brother and his wife are fantastic parents and are very well-informed on autism and what's best for their son. I just remember them saying about the time they brought him to a cafe and how it was rather stressful for all concerned. I really admire them for their patience and tolerance and I know I wouldn't be able to cope half as well as them under the circumstances.
People stare for all kinds of reasons. I have a sister with Down's Syndrome so i'm used to people staring even though she was doing nothing out of the ordinary. when I was younger it embarrassed me but now I either take no notice or just blatantly stare back at them!
I am sure they are, they have to be, being parents of an autistic child. The point I am trying to make is that while it might be right for their child to keep him out of restaurants, for others who may be able to learn how to cope with restaurants it is the right thing for the child to go through the pain barrier.
In the case I have mentioned it was totally not planned, it just happened, it was in the early days of the OCD when I was still very much in the learning curve.
If he got phobic about a food in one school restaurant, that school would punish him for fleeing from that food. It was fight for flight, his choice is always flight. This made his food phobias worse. I had to remove him from that school they were just too cruel, he finally became suicidal. It was more than just that but specific to eating out and the thread.
I moved him to another school when he fled through fear, and they took him to the head, who understood it was fear, so took him to the chef, arranged code words and sentences, showed him where the food was prepared, assured him that the food was "safe food" and devised ways for him to tell the chef of his distress without embarrassing himself infront of the other children.
He could then eat in a school restaurant without any difficulties. I could have taken him home and given him sandwiches at home but for him, removing him wasnt the answer, teaching him how to interact around food was the answer.
Sometimes the pain has to be gone through to get the child to the other side so for the rest of their lifetimes they can cope, other times parents would come to different decisions because their children are different.
All I am asking people is not to be quick to judge because they don't always know what it is they are really seeing.
but when this happened with your child did you keep them in the restaurant or take him outside?
The kid in the chinese banging the glasses with chopsticks might have been hyperactive but the parent should have taken them outside to calm down and not irritate other people for over an hour.
its not the fcat the child cries or starts being naughty or anything, it is the fact the parents allow them to carry on that annoys me.
The time I was referring to I tried to get him out but he was shaking under a table in sheer terror, he was about eight at the time maybe nine. I did manage to get him out but it wasn't quick. This was not planned it was a meltdown that I didn't foresee. It was early days for us.
When it came to getting him to go into supermarkets and sweetshops, after we'd got a lot of help from CAMHS and his outside councillors, we did a lot of exposure work at home to the foods so that when it came to it, the trauma wasn't so bad.
It still took several weeks of trying to get him further and further into supermarkets starting just aiming for the customer services desk then going a bit deeper and a bit deeper with each visit.
Now we go to sweetshops, supermarkets, restaurants and he is brilliantly behaved, in fact he is likely to tell off adults if they are rude and push in which does make me laugh.
I know people judged us, one woman even screamed obscenties at me, stupid stupid cow that she was. People see a snapshot, judge and can be clueless as to the realities of the situation.
Many many parents of children with ADHD< OCD, Autism, Tourettes or other mental health conditions have experienced this.
In fact a friend of mine had cards saying "he's acting odd because he has autism, what's your excuse for staring/being rude".
Loved it.
Possibly they don't-but that fact still doesn't change the fact that they're possibly having a meal out that they're paying for ruined by someone else's disruptive child. Why should people be expected to tolerate that?
There is that attitude, but it's not one that a parent of an autistic child who is severely distressed gives a sh^t at the time about to be honest. They should be grateful if the children in their family are healthy and well.
At the time when it happened to me, I was fully occupied in trying to calm the child and remove him from the situation which was admittedly a lose lose for everyone.
If people are so up their own arses that they can't empathise for a child in distress, then I wouldn't really care what they thought.
They wouldn't be the sort of people I'd want to count amongst my social circle.
Thank you. xx
To be fair outside of school we only had one incident in a
restaurant which is the one I am referring to now. We did get a lot of help, we had outside counsellors a year of CAMHS teaching us about Cognitive Behavioural Therapy where you can teach the child to manage their fears. It's not quick and it takes so much work. We were lucky that CAMHS taught the family of the person with OCD how to manage the behaviours and to deal with the fears at the same time as they taught the children. I believe it was quite experimental but so successful.
The CBT was all about the OCD which is thought to be the most treatable of all mental health conditions.:D
As I said before we went back to a restaurant or shop of supermarket for that matter we did a whole pile of exposure therapies at home but the aim was always for the OCD not to be allowed to narrow his world to just his own home which would have been the case had we not followed CAMHS advice.
I see your point, but, to be fair, other people in the restaurant wouldn't know how much of an issue it was for your son.
Completely agree. It's hard for people who don't know or understand these kinds of problems not to judge. They just assume all children making a fuss are brats.
One of my nephews has ADHD and he was a nightmare. His two younger brothers don't have ADHD but they are nightmares anyway because my sister can't be bothered to manage their behaviour properly.
Which is why I am trying to say, don't be so quick to judge.
I've met some truly amazing people, most people are lovely, wonderful, understanding, helpful. I've had him panic in a queue to get on an airplane, new experiences, different sights, sounds, flying etc. Totally panicked. I needed to get him to a quiet place. He's very smart, articulate, looks a handsome young dude, so people can't see anything there, so it doesn't exist.
I had people in the queue helping me to keep him calm allowng me to run to the front of the queue to tell the airline staff he needed a quiet place. They were brilliant, that truly is the norm for us.
We have experiences like that all of the time where people couldn't be lovelier.
We also meet some of the up your own butt people too. Sadly.
Again my voluntary work, assistance from autism support and counsellors has really helped me. The first thing I was taught was that having OCD and ASD is not an excuse for bad behaviour, if anything it is a reason for me to put in place firmer boundaries. It is a shame your sister hasn't had the same kind of support.
Sadly support for children with mental health issues can be a total postcode lottery. I've been lucky.
I am fortunate in that my child's condition means he can't lie so if he is naughty he tells me. In many ways for us it is a good behaviour disorder.
You seem to be missing the fairly essential point that if your kid is causing a disturbance and annoying other diners, he is causing a diusturbance and annoying other diners regardless of whether he has a legitimate excuse. His being ill rather than a brat doesn't stop it from ruining other people's night out. But of course, you're a parent, so you don't give a sh*t about that, right?
How could the management stop an autistic or an OCD meltdown. How ridiculous.
I wouldn't have missed any essential point at all, at the time I was fully occupied in dealing with "the disturbance" ie a child in severe distress, to care what a few small minded, superior than thou, know it all but know nothings thought of either of us.
Fortunately I've only been there once thank goodness, so no I wouldn't care whether you did or didn't pay for your meal but would think you were quiet a bizarre person to think that the management could manage a mental health meltdown of a child they don't know.
They'd just ask you to leave.
The others are just brats. No excuses, just badly behaved because she doesn't discipline them. We all dread her turning up at our houses with them in tow because they are very destructive and won't take no for an answer and she just sits and watches. It's a horrible feeling to dread seeing your own nephews but that's the way it is, sadly.
I know what you mean about the support for mental health though. I'm bipolar and have had a rough ride trying to get help in managing it.
There was a scientific experiment with babies that when given the choice of fast food or any other food, babies too young to understand publicity would choose fast food every single time. Yes it is a treat for Kids. It's like giving them candy or cakes.
That is good so i can have peace and quiet in my nice proper restaurant that serves proper food!
And that makes up for the food does it?
Besides, if you're after is cheap and quick it shows that you really don't care much about what the kids are eating and really don't want to spend much time there.
Initially that is because they are the scents that they have already become accustomed to and therefore recognise, and following that it's because of the addictive additives in the food.
Bravo - Well said.....
It was probably too many trips to Maccy D's that contributed to their condition in the 1st place!!