I think you've got that well wrong on the whole. In a large part of the country just renting a room will cost around £80 a week or more. Those on low pay will pay more in renting a room than tax. A 1 bedroom place would cost the best part of £500 a month or more, again, the lower paid will pay a lot more in renting that than paying in taxes and what's Cameron planning on doing about that?
As for your assumption that other people's taxes pay for some people's housing costs, most people who get partial housing benefit are working and if the richest people only number 1% of the people then its obvious that the rest of us collectively pay the most taxes and it is us who get the 1% the increases in their wealth by helping to make their money (often inherited money) work for them.
Thats about £ 4000-6000 in rent - assuming they don't get any benefit help. The average wage would see you pay 3000 in income tax. Add on National Insurance - which will cost you 12% on about £ 19000 which is another 2000 plus. Add car tax , TV licence, holiday taxes , and council tax, plus tax on drinks or cigarettes if you indulge. The taxes on income and your house leaves you about 16000 to spend . Even if you spend half on food, thats another 1700 in tax. Then think why the people you bought anything off charged what they did - and you find the price covers their taxes and business rates too.
There's obviously going to be cases that differ. If people are on minimum wage they won't pay much direct tax and will still have to pay rent or get benefits to pay for it. . If they are in an area where the average household income is £ 11000, rent will be more important. If they are in London, on the average household income, they will end up sharing a rent or paying out 40% of their income on a 2 bedroom flat. .If they have ahve a council flat it will be less. How many people bring incomes in to pay for one rent is crucial, On the other hand, people who own their houses just have to pay for repairs, and people on the average wage in average wage areas will spend more on taxes. If you earn a London wage and live in Margate or Leicester travel may cost you more than your mortgage ... As i said, Cameron was talking about averages for the country.
Tax flows from those on high incomes to those on lower incomes. The bottom 50% of income earners pay about 10% of income tax . The top 1% pay about 25% of the bill.The top 3000 tax payerS reportedly spaid more income tax than the 9 million poorest tax payers. At some point, it pays the top 3000 to just move somewhere else - which is what happened in France when Hollande tried higher tax rates.
The only noteworthy tax cuts introduced in the past 5 years were the LibDem policy of increasing the threshold up to 10k (something which I very much doubt would've happened if the Tories were in government alone) and the top rate for over 150k reduced from 50% to 45% (oh, and the corporation tax changes).
Other than that, VAT went up from 17.5% to 20%, Class 1 NICs went up from 11% to 12%, self-employed Class 4 NICs went up from 8% to 9% for the lower limit and up from 1% to 2% for the upper limit (Class 1 & 4), plus a whole heap of stealth tax increases which, in addition to the general cost of living being around 33% higher, have resulted in everyone being much worse off:
The following is a point from the Leaders Question Time Programme that I think has been overlooked by everyone including the media.
Cameron said at one point that taxes was the biggest cost of living that we all face and that is why it was important to cut taxes. Surely for most people, its not your taxes that cost you the most but the cost of keeping a roof over your head? Especially if you have a mortgage on a completely over priced house? I've heard over the last few years that most people don't have disposable income because their mortages are so high and that is what most of their income goes on.
He is right - biggest item people buy is a house - now as a guide my mortgage payments have varied from £420 - £650. I pay about £800-900 in tax contributions. Average wages are just over half what I get so again one would be looking at £400-500.
Put it another way tax takes about a third of income of a lower tax payer. Even if you thought VAT was higher that is only charged on certain goods and is a 5th on top. Way lower.
It depends on the tax - if referring to Income Tax then no, if VAT, Council Tax and Fuel tax is included then maybe, but for me my biggest expenses are the utility bills and Insurances.
You want to look at changing your utility supplier then - my utility bills are way lower than Tax bills.
The only major tax cuts introduced in the past 5 years were the LibDem policy of increasing the threshold up to 10k (something which I very much doubt would've happened if the Tories were in government alone) and the top rate for over 150k reduced from 50% to 45%
Other than that, VAT went up from 17.5% to 20%, Class 4 NICs went up from 8% to 9% for below 42k and up from 1% to 2% for above 42k, plus a whole heap of stealth tax increases which, in addition to the general cost of living being around 33% higher, have resulted in everyone being much worse off:
(links provided from left, centre & right sources)
You do understand that running a budget deficit equates to not getting enough taxes in to foot the bill?
To deal with the deficit, whoever is in power, will have to raise taxes, cut spending or a balance between the two. Don't let the empty rhetoric from any of the parties kid you that there's not still a very tough job to be done.
There is no magic way to get out of the mess the country was allowed to get in under years of fiscal mismanagement by Labour. It was an absolutely massive financial black hole they legacied to the country.
You do understand that running a budget deficit equates to not getting enough taxes in to foot the bill?
To deal with the deficit, whoever is in power, will have to raise taxes, cut spending or a balance between the two. Don't let the empty rhetoric from any of the parties kid you that there's not still a very tough job to be done.
There is no magic way to get out of the mess the country was allowed to get in under years of fiscal mismanagement by Labour. It was an absolutely massive financial black hole they legacied to the country.
Yes, I understand fully. Which is why I said "he should practice what he preaches".
He's claiming to lower taxes when all along they've increased.
It's nothing but deceitful & hypocritical.
They could recover more tax by closing some tax avoidance loopholes and going after the super rich tax evaders, without taking the easy cop-out option of going after the average everyday workers instead, and cutting benefits for the most vulnerable people in society.
And the financial black hole existed before Labour got in. The Tories added almost 300bn to the national debt between 1979-97, much more than the ~125bn added by Labour between 1997-2008. The global financial crisis caused the huge deficit in 2009, not anything that Labour specifically did.
Yes, I understand fully. Which is why I said "he should practice what he preaches".
He's claiming to lower taxes when all along they've increased.
It's nothing but deceitful & hypocritical.
They could recover more tax by closing some tax avoidance loopholes and going after the super rich tax evaders, without taking the easy cop-out option of going after the average everyday workers instead, and cutting benefits for the most vulnerable people in society.
And the financial black hole existed before Labour got in. The Tories added almost 300bn to the national debt between 1979-97, much more than the 125bn added by Labour between 1997-2008. The global financial crisis caused the huge deficit in 2009, not anything that Labour specifically did.
It's what Labour didn't do as much as what anyone else did do.
All taxes equate to government income and a cost to the individual. Indirect taxation and tax-inclusive goods and services amount to a big chunk of your weekly expenditure.
Even people who rely solely upon the state for their income pay a large chunk back in taxes.
Very true, nice to see someone acknowledge that even the unemployed, sick and disabled are taxpayers, as a lot of people (especially Tories) only consider someone a taxpayer if they pay income tax.
It's what Labour didn't do as much as what anyone else did do.
I'm not saying that Labour are blameless, I'm just saying that the Tories are equally to blame (if not more) and that, as per usual, Cameron is being highly deceitful & hypocritical.
Very true, nice to see someone acknowledge that even the unemployed, sick and disabled are taxpayers, as a lot of people (especially Tories) only consider someone a taxpayer if they pay income tax.
Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, but it does of course mean there is still a net cost to their benefit payments.
It's morally wrong for society to class "unemployed, sick and disabled" as a permanent status. It's only fair that they should be given every opportunity to contribute to an equitable society.
It depends on the tax - if referring to Income Tax then no, if VAT, Council Tax and Fuel tax is included then maybe, but for me my biggest expenses are the utility bills and Insurances.
Council tax is a massive bill for many people, and it's one we can expect to see increase significantly every year if Labour get in, just as it did last time.
It depends on the tax - if referring to Income Tax then no, if VAT, Council Tax and Fuel tax is included then maybe, but for me my biggest expenses are the utility bills and Insurances.
Maybe for the likes of David Cameron who's wealth and opportunities come about from inheritance and conncections that tax is their biggest cost but for most ordinary people with property prices so high, the cost of keeping a roof over your head is what will take most of your income, month by month, year by year until you have paid a mortgage off. If you are lucky enough to be in that position.
Maybe for the likes of David Cameron who's wealth and opportunities come about from inheritance and conncections that tax is their biggest cost but for most ordinary people with property prices so high, the cost of keeping a roof over your head is what will take most of your income, month by month, year by year until you have paid a mortgage off. If you are lucky enough to be in that position.
David Cameron may have inherited some wealth - but only 1 in 10 of this country's wealthy actually inherited their wealth and only half of those inherited all of it. And there are plenty of examples in this thread showing that tax is indeed the largest cost faced by people.
David Cameron may have inherited some wealth - but only 1 in 10 of this country's wealthy actually inherited their wealth and only half of those inherited all of it. And there are plenty of examples in this thread showing that tax is indeed the largest cost faced by people.
And the mega rich only represent 1% too don't they but they have what 80% of the money in the UK?? Worldwide a tiny minority of rich people have 90% of the money don't they?
Thats about £ 4000-6000 in rent - assuming they don't get any benefit help. The average wage would see you pay 3000 in income tax. Add on National Insurance - which will cost you 12% on about £ 19000 which is another 2000 plus. Add car tax , TV licence, holiday taxes , and council tax, plus tax on drinks or cigarettes if you indulge. The taxes on income and your house leaves you about 16000 to spend . Even if you spend half on food, thats another 1700 in tax. Then think why the people you bought anything off charged what they did - and you find the price covers their taxes and business rates too.
There's obviously going to be cases that differ. If people are on minimum wage they won't pay much direct tax and will still have to pay rent or get benefits to pay for it. . If they are in an area where the average household income is £ 11000, rent will be more important. If they are in London, on the average household income, they will end up sharing a rent or paying out 40% of their income on a 2 bedroom flat. .If they have ahve a council flat it will be less. How many people bring incomes in to pay for one rent is crucial, On the other hand, people who own their houses just have to pay for repairs, and people on the average wage in average wage areas will spend more on taxes. If you earn a London wage and live in Margate or Leicester travel may cost you more than your mortgage ... As i said, Cameron was talking about averages for the country.
Tax flows from those on high incomes to those on lower incomes. The bottom 50% of income earners pay about 10% of income tax . The top 1% pay about 25% of the bill.The top 3000 tax payerS reportedly spaid more income tax than the 9 million poorest tax payers. At some point, it pays the top 3000 to just move somewhere else - which is what happened in France when Hollande tried higher tax rates.
People on Minimum wage or less are not likely to have their own place, just rent a room at best I would have thought in a lot of areas, unless they live in a very cheap property area. Minimum wage is around 13 thousand a year so if someone renting a room that costs the best part of 4 thousand a year will be paying more in keeping a roof over their head than any other bill I would have thought.
Those on the average wage of around 26-28 thousand a year are much more likely to be renting more expensive property that could easily cost around £700 a month or more in a lot of areas. There is not many people I've met or know thta have taken holidays in the last few years at all.
And the mega rich only represent 1% too don't they but they have what 80% of the money in the UK?? Worldwide a tiny minority of rich people have 90% of the money don't they?
The "mega rich" represent a much smaller percentage of 1% of the UK population. By that measure there would be 600,000 mega rich people here.
Those 600,000 are certainly comfortably well off but they are hardly the private-jet owning billionaire elite.
Ah I feel so sorry for them. If only I was in the position to have to pay 45% of my billions in tax,
But instead lets have the poor pay for their spare rooms.
You don't get it, they are paying a lot more tax at a higher rate than us.
If you start squeezing the total tax take goes down.
Rich people buy things, more cars than you or I, quite likely cars made in the Midlands (Solihul and Coventry), those car workers are being paid by rich people buying cars
Comments
Thats about £ 4000-6000 in rent - assuming they don't get any benefit help. The average wage would see you pay 3000 in income tax. Add on National Insurance - which will cost you 12% on about £ 19000 which is another 2000 plus. Add car tax , TV licence, holiday taxes , and council tax, plus tax on drinks or cigarettes if you indulge. The taxes on income and your house leaves you about 16000 to spend . Even if you spend half on food, thats another 1700 in tax. Then think why the people you bought anything off charged what they did - and you find the price covers their taxes and business rates too.
There's obviously going to be cases that differ. If people are on minimum wage they won't pay much direct tax and will still have to pay rent or get benefits to pay for it. . If they are in an area where the average household income is £ 11000, rent will be more important. If they are in London, on the average household income, they will end up sharing a rent or paying out 40% of their income on a 2 bedroom flat. .If they have ahve a council flat it will be less. How many people bring incomes in to pay for one rent is crucial, On the other hand, people who own their houses just have to pay for repairs, and people on the average wage in average wage areas will spend more on taxes. If you earn a London wage and live in Margate or Leicester travel may cost you more than your mortgage ... As i said, Cameron was talking about averages for the country.
Tax flows from those on high incomes to those on lower incomes. The bottom 50% of income earners pay about 10% of income tax . The top 1% pay about 25% of the bill.The top 3000 tax payerS reportedly spaid more income tax than the 9 million poorest tax payers. At some point, it pays the top 3000 to just move somewhere else - which is what happened in France when Hollande tried higher tax rates.
The only noteworthy tax cuts introduced in the past 5 years were the LibDem policy of increasing the threshold up to 10k (something which I very much doubt would've happened if the Tories were in government alone) and the top rate for over 150k reduced from 50% to 45% (oh, and the corporation tax changes).
Other than that, VAT went up from 17.5% to 20%, Class 1 NICs went up from 11% to 12%, self-employed Class 4 NICs went up from 8% to 9% for the lower limit and up from 1% to 2% for the upper limit (Class 1 & 4), plus a whole heap of stealth tax increases which, in addition to the general cost of living being around 33% higher, have resulted in everyone being much worse off:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coalition-will-have-increased-taxes-300-times-by-2015-8470819.html
http://leftfootforward.org/2014/03/24-tory-tax-rises-under-george-osborne/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2993563/Coalition-tax-bill-increases-16-4billion-worth-extra-255-person-Britain.html
(links provided from left, centre & right sources)
He is right - biggest item people buy is a house - now as a guide my mortgage payments have varied from £420 - £650. I pay about £800-900 in tax contributions. Average wages are just over half what I get so again one would be looking at £400-500.
Put it another way tax takes about a third of income of a lower tax payer. Even if you thought VAT was higher that is only charged on certain goods and is a 5th on top. Way lower.
You want to look at changing your utility supplier then - my utility bills are way lower than Tax bills.
To deal with the deficit, whoever is in power, will have to raise taxes, cut spending or a balance between the two. Don't let the empty rhetoric from any of the parties kid you that there's not still a very tough job to be done.
There is no magic way to get out of the mess the country was allowed to get in under years of fiscal mismanagement by Labour. It was an absolutely massive financial black hole they legacied to the country.
Yes, I understand fully. Which is why I said "he should practice what he preaches".
He's claiming to lower taxes when all along they've increased.
It's nothing but deceitful & hypocritical.
They could recover more tax by closing some tax avoidance loopholes and going after the super rich tax evaders, without taking the easy cop-out option of going after the average everyday workers instead, and cutting benefits for the most vulnerable people in society.
And the financial black hole existed before Labour got in. The Tories added almost 300bn to the national debt between 1979-97, much more than the ~125bn added by Labour between 1997-2008. The global financial crisis caused the huge deficit in 2009, not anything that Labour specifically did.
My income tax bill is 0 as I don't even get close to the personal allowance.
Very true, nice to see someone acknowledge that even the unemployed, sick and disabled are taxpayers, as a lot of people (especially Tories) only consider someone a taxpayer if they pay income tax.
I'm not saying that Labour are blameless, I'm just saying that the Tories are equally to blame (if not more) and that, as per usual, Cameron is being highly deceitful & hypocritical.
Bread and dripping for the poorest then....echoes of the 30's seem to be getting louder these days....
It's morally wrong for society to class "unemployed, sick and disabled" as a permanent status. It's only fair that they should be given every opportunity to contribute to an equitable society.
Council tax is a massive bill for many people, and it's one we can expect to see increase significantly every year if Labour get in, just as it did last time.
Maybe for the likes of David Cameron who's wealth and opportunities come about from inheritance and conncections that tax is their biggest cost but for most ordinary people with property prices so high, the cost of keeping a roof over your head is what will take most of your income, month by month, year by year until you have paid a mortgage off. If you are lucky enough to be in that position.
David Cameron may have inherited some wealth - but only 1 in 10 of this country's wealthy actually inherited their wealth and only half of those inherited all of it. And there are plenty of examples in this thread showing that tax is indeed the largest cost faced by people.
I don't pay that much VAT except on fuel
And the mega rich only represent 1% too don't they but they have what 80% of the money in the UK?? Worldwide a tiny minority of rich people have 90% of the money don't they?
People on Minimum wage or less are not likely to have their own place, just rent a room at best I would have thought in a lot of areas, unless they live in a very cheap property area. Minimum wage is around 13 thousand a year so if someone renting a room that costs the best part of 4 thousand a year will be paying more in keeping a roof over their head than any other bill I would have thought.
Those on the average wage of around 26-28 thousand a year are much more likely to be renting more expensive property that could easily cost around £700 a month or more in a lot of areas. There is not many people I've met or know thta have taken holidays in the last few years at all.
The "mega rich" represent a much smaller percentage of 1% of the UK population. By that measure there would be 600,000 mega rich people here.
Those 600,000 are certainly comfortably well off but they are hardly the private-jet owning billionaire elite.
Ah I feel so sorry for them. If only I was in the position to have to pay 45% of my billions in tax,
But instead lets have the poor pay for their spare rooms.
You don't get it, they are paying a lot more tax at a higher rate than us.
If you start squeezing the total tax take goes down.
Rich people buy things, more cars than you or I, quite likely cars made in the Midlands (Solihul and Coventry), those car workers are being paid by rich people buying cars