Premier League to sell rights to 168 live games; tender issued today.

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  • casinoman13casinoman13 Posts: 7,062
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    THOMO wrote: »
    I wonder what all these BT Sportss subscribers who think BT Sport will end up with more Premier Football, after the auction, but do not. What will they say then and what if BT Sport actually end up with less Premier League Football than at present?
    Ian.

    Ian I think that's a fair point but equally what if, perhaps more likely, Sky end up with a lot less and even lose the 4.00 Sunday slot?
    I think it would hurt Sky immensely as well.
  • THOMOTHOMO Posts: 7,446
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    Ian I think that's a fair point but equally what if, perhaps more likely, Sky end up with a lot less and even lose the 4.00 Sunday slot?
    I think it would hurt Sky immensely as well.
    How is it more likely that Sky will end up with less packages.. I'm not saying who will end up with the most packages. But I wouldn't say BT Sport are most likely to get the most packages, just as Sky arnt certain to either.
    Ian.
  • bottleofbestbottleofbest Posts: 8,026
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    THOMO wrote: »
    I wonder what all these BT Sports subscribers who think BT Sport will end up with more Premier Football, after the auction, but do not. What will they say then and what if BT Sport actually end up with less Premier League Football than at present?
    Ian.

    I find it hard to believe BT will allow this to happen. The new packages seem to be designed in such a way to stop the happening and if for some reason they do get less, then I expect the matches to be of a higher calibre. I think they have come too far over the last couple of years and spent too much money for this auction to pass them by and for them not to go all out.
    I think both Sky and BT are going to go all out for assault as so much is riding just on these rights.
    The outcome of this auction is going to shape both companies future for at least the next three years. Sky need to maintain their position as the lead sports broadcaster and BT need the drive in subs and build their tv platform and continue to drive their broadband and company forward. Both companies sub bases are at near saturation point and they can't afford to lose out.
  • mightymilliemightymillie Posts: 5,032
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    THOMO wrote: »
    I wonder what all these BT Sports subscribers who think BT Sport will end up with more Premier Football, after the auction, but do not. What will they say then and what if BT Sport actually end up with less Premier League Football than at present?
    Ian.

    For BT Sport to have fewer games would really mean them having no games.
    For them to have 14 or 28 games means them being the smallest winner in a three (or more) way split.
    While not inconceivable, the concensus is that the rights won't be split between more than two pay broadcasters.

    BT has also said it would rather win better packages than more packages, though that really is stating the obvious, as we all realise the main battle will be for Sunday 4pm games.
  • bottleofbestbottleofbest Posts: 8,026
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    For BT Sport to have fewer games would really mean them having no games.
    For them to have 14 or 28 games means them being the smallest winner in a three (or more) way split.
    While not inconceivable, the concensus is that the rights won't be split between more than two pay broadcasters.

    BT has also said it would rather win better packages than more packages, though that really is stating the obvious, as we all realise the main battle will be for Sunday 4pm games.

    Exactly.
  • steveOooosteveOooo Posts: 5,001
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    samburrows wrote: »
    Yes, a pretty chunky submission. PQQ / ITT responses vary in size dependent on contracts but I would imagine the response for this would be at least 500 pages. A ringbinder or two hand delivered / couriered across London.

    Surely a live auction would get the pl more money rather than a 'one hit wonder'
  • mattwmattw Posts: 1,505
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    steveOooo wrote: »
    Surely a live auction would get the pl more money rather than a 'one hit wonder'

    Could also have an auction to sell the broadcast rights for the auction!

    More to the point though the Premier League and the all the broadcasters are happier with the process the way it is, gives the Premier League a chance to review any bids and plans in detail and make better informed decisions. Also gives the broadcasters a chance to go through all the numbers etc and put in their best bids. Which method would give more money is debatable but this method is in every other way better for all parties.
  • blueisthecolourblueisthecolour Posts: 20,118
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    I'm leaning towards the side of the argument that BT will be happy to win a similar number of games to what they already have. PL is an important part of their business strategy but I don't think they are as dependent on it as Sky. With their Champion League coverage starting up next season I think, think they would accept the status quo - or maybe a slight rejig (taking Sunday 2pm rather than midweek/bank holidays).

    I imagine that Sky are pooling everything they have and will throw it at Saturday and Sunday evening and the remainder at Friday/Monday night. I imagine that BT have the resources to beat them if they want but it would be an extremely expensive strategy. BSKYB must know that their future is largely dependent on access to the PL.
  • PaulLFCPaulLFC Posts: 1,290
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    I'm leaning towards the side of the argument that BT will be happy to win a similar number of games to what they already have. PL is an important part of their business strategy but I don't think they are as dependent on it as Sky. With their Champion League coverage starting up next season I think, think they would accept the status quo - or maybe a slight rejig (taking Sunday 2pm rather than midweek/bank holidays).

    I imagine that Sky are pooling everything they have and will throw it at Saturday and Sunday evening and the remainder at Friday/Monday night. I imagine that BT have the resources to beat them if they want but it would be an extremely expensive strategy. BSKYB must know that their future is largely dependent on access to the PL.
    Probably a fair assessment. Provided BT don't get beaten by a third entrant and end up with nothing, they will be fine with what they have now (which with the new packages would mean an extra 4 games (I think?) anyway). If it's a two way split between them and another broadcaster then by the rules I think they have to end up with roughly what they have now. I do think they would like a Sunday package too though, then they can have PL football on both weekend days.
  • derek500derek500 Posts: 24,886
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    I'm leaning towards the side of the argument that BT will be happy to win a similar number of games to what they already have. PL is an important part of their business strategy but I don't think they are as dependent on it as Sky. With their Champion League coverage starting up next season I think, think they would accept the status quo - or maybe a slight rejig (taking Sunday 2pm rather than midweek/bank holidays).

    One of the problems BT have is that they haven't tested the market yet with their CL acquisition and additional subs that will no doubt be needed to make it viable.

    I expect they'd much rather this PL auction was next year.
  • blueisthecolourblueisthecolour Posts: 20,118
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    PaulLFC wrote: »
    Probably a fair assessment. Provided BT don't get beaten by a third entrant and end up with nothing, they will be fine with what they have now (which with the new packages would mean an extra 4 games (I think?) anyway). If it's a two way split between them and another broadcaster then by the rules I think they have to end up with roughly what they have now. I do think they would like a Sunday package too though, then they can have PL football on both weekend days.

    I know we're repeating ourselves on this thread a bit, but i've still seen nothing to convince me that PL rights are remotely profitable to a third party who isn't selling related services. Sure, winning 23 games would be great for Eurosport's profile and would significantly increase their viewing figures - but there's no way it can be worth the £250 - £400m it would cost them.
  • casinoman13casinoman13 Posts: 7,062
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    I'm leaning towards the side of the argument that BT will be happy to win a similar number of games to what they already have. PL is an important part of their business strategy but I don't think they are as dependent on it as Sky. With their Champion League coverage starting up next season I think, think they would accept the status quo - or maybe a slight rejig (taking Sunday 2pm rather than midweek/bank holidays).

    I imagine that Sky are pooling everything they have and will throw it at Saturday and Sunday evening and the remainder at Friday/Monday night. I imagine that BT have the resources to beat them if they want but it would be an extremely expensive strategy. BSKYB must know that their future is largely dependent on access to the PL.

    Absolutely agree with that 100%, I am still not convinced they will throw stupid money at the 4.00 slot on a Sunday but in turn may settle for the 5.30 Sat slot or even the Monday night slot, not bad I would of thought considering after their Monday football they then have the Champion League and Europa League on certain weeks in the year.
  • 1andrew11andrew1 Posts: 4,088
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    I know we're repeating ourselves on this thread a bit, but i've still seen nothing to convince me that PL rights are remotely profitable to a third party who isn't selling related services. Sure, winning 23 games would be great for Eurosport's profile and would significantly increase their viewing figures - but there's no way it can be worth the £250 - £400m it would cost them.
    The turnover of Eurosport UK (ie money it receives for adverts, fees from pay-TV platforms like Sky, plus sponsorship, etc) is just £53m. So it would have to become a premium channel if it acquired Premiership rights. This is a big risk for the channel. Like beIN Sport, there are better places for it to spend its money, even if it does have the support of Discovery as its largest shareholder.
  • fodg09fodg09 Posts: 3,602
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    I think Eurosport/Discovery will bid but I don't see them getting any further than that - I just don't see how they can value the rights in the same way Sky and BT do.
  • Igloo_ManIgloo_Man Posts: 2,865
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    PaulLFC wrote: »
    Provided BT don't get beaten by a third entrant and end up with nothing, they will be fine with what they have now (which with the new packages would mean an extra 4 games (I think?) anyway)

    The problem for BT is that under the new package structure the midweek and BH rounds are separated, so to maintain both and a weekend package BT will have to take on more games (28 + 14 + 14 = 56 games).

    If BT are satisfied with maintaining their current level of coverage in terms of volume then they may have to prioritise taking only one of the 14-game packs. The BH rounds have provided some of their best ratings and can give them a stronger offering around Christmas, but the midweek rounds give one extra first pick and aren't limited by the need for teams to play more locally (ie. top-tier fixtures such as Arsenal-Man Utd can land on a midweek round but not a BH). It's a delicate balance between the two, which could also be tipped by the pick quality level of the non-BH / non-midweek games each contains.

    Perhaps BT will decide that unless they can win both 14-game packs they don't offer enough, that is individually neither is viable. In which case they may actually try to capture a second 26-game pack instead, which would give the same total number (28 + 28 = 56 games) and much more consistency over the course of the season.

    I'm not going to make any bold predictions, but do think the nature of the CL auction could offer an indication of BT's intentions. We know that Sky are going to protect Sun 16:00 and probably the second best first pick package or controlling second pick package (whichever is overall the most attractive), but BT's strategy is much less clear.

    By all accounts the share of broadband additions for BT has largely fallen back to its level pre-BT Sport in the last couple of quarters, and that is a cause for concern. It indicates that their current PL offering isn't making their overall package all that more appealing. Do they spend big to ramp it up and change all that or settle for lower-key games and hope the attraction of the CL from next season can reinvigorate subs?
  • Rich1977Rich1977 Posts: 654
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    1andrew1 wrote: »
    The turnover of Eurosport UK (ie money it receives for adverts, fees from pay-TV platforms like Sky, plus sponsorship, etc) is just £53m. So it would have to become a premium channel if it acquired Premiership rights. This is a big risk for the channel. Like beIN Sport, there are better places for it to spend its money, even if it does have the support of Discovery as its largest shareholder.

    One other potential motivation might be an agreement between Sky & Eurosport. Motivation for SKY to get BT out of the market and find a sports Broadcaster who can compliment and support Sky (like ESPN did), motivation for Eurosport build their portfolio of content.

    Sky offer Eurosport a ton of cash to provide them with an exclusive new exclusive premium Eurosport which crucially is so not available on BT and Virgin platforms like they have done with ITV encore etc...

    Then Eurosport bid for 42 games and Sky get the rest.
  • JordyDJordyD Posts: 4,007
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    When is it likely that the winning bids will be announced?
  • mattwmattw Posts: 1,505
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    derek500 wrote: »
    One of the problems BT have is that they haven't tested the market yet with their CL acquisition and additional subs that will no doubt be needed to make it viable.

    I expect they'd much rather this PL auction was next year.

    In one way that may be true, however equally if they lost out in the Premier League auction then they may decide they don't require the additional sub (which we're all assuming they will levy but there's no confirmation). The Champions League / Europa League contract isn't that much more per year than their current Premier League package so the equation wouldn't be that different.

    They'd have to weather one year of paying for both Premier League and Eurpoean cost, but that's a short term issue.
  • casinoman13casinoman13 Posts: 7,062
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    JordyD wrote: »
    When is it likely that the winning bids will be announced?

    Indications would be next week sometime or though some have even said this week.
    Deadline day however appears to be this Friday.
  • casinoman13casinoman13 Posts: 7,062
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    Rich1977 wrote: »
    One other potential motivation might be an agreement between Sky & Eurosport. Motivation for SKY to get BT out of the market and find a sports Broadcaster who can compliment and support Sky (like ESPN did), motivation for Eurosport build their portfolio of content.

    Sky offer Eurosport a ton of cash to provide them with an exclusive new exclusive premium Eurosport which crucially is so not available on BT and Virgin platforms like they have done with ITV encore etc...

    Then Eurosport bid for 42 games and Sky get the rest.

    If only that could be a outcome for Sky, they would snap that from your hands.
  • JordyDJordyD Posts: 4,007
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    Indications would be next week sometime or though some have even said this week.
    Deadline day however appears to be this Friday.

    Thanks casinoman!
  • eljmayeseljmayes Posts: 1,096
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    If Sky News take the feed of the news of the announcement then they've done well.

    If not, things haven't gone as planned.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,718
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    Rich1977 wrote: »
    One other potential motivation might be an agreement between Sky & Eurosport. Motivation for SKY to get BT out of the market and find a sports Broadcaster who can compliment and support Sky (like ESPN did), motivation for Eurosport build their portfolio of content.

    Sky offer Eurosport a ton of cash to provide them with an exclusive new exclusive premium Eurosport which crucially is so not available on BT and Virgin platforms like they have done with ITV encore etc...

    Then Eurosport bid for 42 games and Sky get the rest.

    That practice would be anti-competitive and also illegal.
  • bottleofbestbottleofbest Posts: 8,026
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    fodg09 wrote: »
    I think Eurosport/Discovery will bid but I don't see them getting any further than that - I just don't see how they can value the rights in the same way Sky and BT do.

    Too right. Eurosport may well be backed by Discovery now but Discovery are still a business with shareholders etc that they need to keep happy.
    They will need to see a return on their investment if they were buy PL rights.

    It's all well and good Sky and BT buying rights because they have ways to offset costs and ways to push other services to make the purchase viable. I don't see how in any way, Discovery can make a return on the sort of figures we are talking about, it would be a huge gamble and they could easily go to the wall just like Setanta in the UK did.
  • Rich1977Rich1977 Posts: 654
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    Jack1 wrote: »
    That practice would be anti-competitive and also illegal.

    I don't actually think it would be. For this (and the last) auction the decision to not allow any one broadcaster to have all the packages is that if the the PL and not a legal requirement.

    There is nothing stopping Sky signing an exclusive deal with Eurosport if they created a new Channel. Their HD channels for example were a Sky exclusive for a few years. Premier Sports was also a Sky exclusive at first, meaning content not available other platforms such as Virgin & BT.

    No different if Eurosport got 42 PL games and created a new channel and offered it to Sky on an exclusive basis.
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