Heart Stations

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  • dpbdpb Posts: 12,024
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    I was wondering about Jenni Falconer's Sunday morning show. She always used to do a "text in and tell me what you're doing",and somebody would always text in and say they were milking the cows,and it always gave me a smile. But the last few weeks she hadn't been doing it and I thought,maybe it's not live now. So we won't hear about the cows getting milked any more.:(

    How does pre recording work? Do they just sit there and record the links between the records? Or do they record the whole show? And if they do,what's the point of it? Presumably it would take the same amount of time.

    They can potentially do either - I wonder if anyone has knowledge of which one they do use?

    If they pre-record the whole show the point of it would be the presenters don't have to get up on Sunday morning!
  • SarahsaurusSarahsaurus Posts: 3,670
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    dpb wrote: »
    They can potentially do either - I wonder if anyone has knowledge of which one they do use?

    If they pre-record the whole show the point of it would be the presenters don't have to get up on Sunday morning!

    Well,the farmer still has to get up to milk his cows..:D
  • chrisjrchrisjr Posts: 33,282
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    How does pre recording work? Do they just sit there and record the links between the records? Or do they record the whole show? And if they do,what's the point of it? Presumably it would take the same amount of time.

    Voice Tracking (AKA recording just the links) is much quicker than recording an entire programme. And in these days of digital playout systems is more commonly used.

    The playout system plays just the last 30secs or so of the song before the link and the presenter listens to that and starts recording the link at the appropriate time. Then they can start the next song and talk over the intro.

    The playout software makes a note of all these actions and automatically inserts the link into the playlist. You can even set some playout systems to do clever stuff like fade the songs in and out under the link.

    When it comes to broadcast you just set the playout system into "Automation" mode and kick it off into action. Which might not even need a human being to start it. It can be started on a time command or at the end of a specific news bulletin for example.
  • SarahsaurusSarahsaurus Posts: 3,670
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    chrisjr wrote: »
    Voice Tracking (AKA recording just the links) is much quicker than recording an entire programme. And in these days of digital playout systems is more commonly used.

    The playout system plays just the last 30secs or so of the song before the link and the presenter listens to that and starts recording the link at the appropriate time. Then they can start the next song and talk over the intro.

    The playout software makes a note of all these actions and automatically inserts the link into the playlist. You can even set some playout systems to do clever stuff like fade the songs in and out under the link.

    When it comes to broadcast you just set the playout system into "Automation" mode and kick it off into action. Which might not even need a human being to start it. It can be started on a time command or at the end of a specific news bulletin for example.
    Blimey.

    So the presenter can talk over an intro,and that recording gets overlaid into the play of the full song,and you can't "see the join",as it were,where the recording finishes and the full song starts? Or can you?

    Ah,wait a minute,I think I've got it. They play the intro to the presenter but that's not recorded. They just record the presenter saying the link,Here's Starship",or whatever,and fade that in over the intro to the song.

    I must say it's all very clever.
  • merrim01merrim01 Posts: 2,684
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    Pre recorded radio in the day to me is pointless, the presenter should always be live and in the studio. If they can't be on a regular basis then get somebody else. Heart's links are so generic anyway, you never gain a lot from hearing the presenter to be fair.
  • chrisjrchrisjr Posts: 33,282
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    Blimey.

    So the presenter can talk over an intro,and that recording gets overlaid into the play of the full song,and you can't "see the join",as it were,where the recording finishes and the full song starts? Or can you?

    Ah,wait a minute,I think I've got it. They play the intro to the presenter but that's not recorded. They just record the presenter saying the link,Here's Starship",or whatever,and fade that in over the intro to the song.

    I must say it's all very clever.

    Yes, only the actual voice link is recorded. Any song before and after the link is only played to the presenter but those are not recorded. They don't have to be as they are already present as audio files on the system anyway.

    Most playout software can handle playing multiple audio files at the same time so the recorded voice link can play over the intro to a song for example.
  • MallMall Posts: 540
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    Blimey.

    So the presenter can talk over an intro,and that recording gets overlaid into the play of the full song,and you can't "see the join",as it were,where the recording finishes and the full song starts? Or can you?

    Ah,wait a minute,I think I've got it. They play the intro to the presenter but that's not recorded. They just record the presenter saying the link,Here's Starship",or whatever,and fade that in over the intro to the song.

    I must say it's all very clever.

    Clever technically, but basically lazy.

    As you say the farmer still has to get up to milk his cows.

    If you don't want a 6am Sunday radio job then don't take one. These poor media luvvies...what would they do in a real job in the real world, if getting up early to push a few buttons, open some faders and mumble a few words about music every 15 minutes or so is just too much for them?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,520
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    Station ID wrote: »
    The best programmers use research and gut instinct. The latter first and then you can test it with the former. I've never met a good programmer who didn't use gut instinct sometimes but these days with so much competition research has a role to play.

    Or, on occasion, the reverse also occurs: you might have some songs that test pretty well but just don't "feel" right for your station somehow. That's when your gut effectively vetoes the research!

    Of course good music managers need a feel for and broad knowledge of music, but programming a station entirely on assumption - with no insight whatsoever into what the audience actually likes - is just crazy.
  • simonk243simonk243 Posts: 3,405
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    jon craig wrote: »
    Those who wonder whether 'music testing' really exists may find the latest blog from John Myers an interesting read. You can even link to a YouTube clip showing a research session in progress and learn that Richard Park can be a 'gut instinct' programmer, not just a slave to the research results!

    http://myersmedia.co.uk/2015/music-r...bad-for-radio/

    An interesting article it's a shame only the hook of a song is played to the people it being tested on surely that's not enough to make a decision not surprising why some songs might not be put or popular as they don't get to hear enough of the song.

    Stations should also allow us to put up songs for testing.
  • reverse_diodereverse_diode Posts: 950
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    Mall wrote: »
    Clever technically, but basically lazy.

    As you say the farmer still has to get up to milk his cows.

    If you don't want a 6am Sunday radio job then don't take one. These poor media luvvies...what would they do in a real job in the real world, if getting up early to push a few buttons, open some faders and mumble a few words about music every 15 minutes or so is just too much for them?

    To be fair, it might not be down to the presenter being lazy. Cost cutting means that management don't want to open up the building and employ tech opp staff out of core hours. Automation doesn't need anyone to be present
  • Station IDStation ID Posts: 7,402
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    Well,the farmer still has to get up to milk his cows..:D

    But if he could find a way of getting the job done, saving money and staying in bed i'm sure he would.
  • simonk243simonk243 Posts: 3,405
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    Mall wrote: »
    Clever technically, but basically lazy.

    As you say the farmer still has to get up to milk his cows.

    If you don't want a 6am Sunday radio job then don't take one. These poor media luvvies...what would they do in a real job in the real world, if getting up early to push a few buttons, open some faders and mumble a few words about music every 15 minutes or so is just too much for them?

    Doesn't Jenni do the 4am to 6am show Monday to Friday doing Sunday as well would be a bit much a bit different if it was later in the day but such early starts are a killer
  • Gavin_DGavin_D Posts: 2,005
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    Rich Clarke will be with Lucy for the next 2 weeks on Heart London drivetime
  • pi r squaredpi r squared Posts: 4,272
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    simonk243 wrote: »
    An interesting article it's a shame only the hook of a song is played to the people it being tested on surely that's not enough to make a decision not surprising why some songs might not be put or popular as they don't get to hear enough of the song.
    The hook is plenty long enough to tell if a song is familiar to you or not; surely by the very nature of the word "familiar", if you have to listen to it for longer to make a decision then the decision is kind of made for you. As for like or dislike, if you don't like what is supposed to be the best bit (or most pleasing bit) of the song, I don't see how listening to more of the track is going to change your mind. The other point is that I guess it's supposed to be an impulse decision - is a person that tunes in and hears this going to stick around or just tune back out again? - and having three minutes to mull over your decision is unlikely to provide any meaningful results.
    Stations should also allow us to put up songs for testing.
    One of the last times this discussion came up, the response from someone who has been involved in these before was basically "whatever song you wanted to put forward for testing has probably already been tested at one point".
  • SarahsaurusSarahsaurus Posts: 3,670
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    One of the last times this discussion came up, the response from someone who has been involved in these before was basically "whatever song you wanted to put forward for testing has probably already been tested at one point".

    So, "If they don't make the grade,they don't get played".

    Unfortunately that leaves us in the situation described in that blog,with the same few hundred songs getting played on an endless loop.

    Incidentally I notice Bruno Mars "Locked Out Of Heaven" seems to have more or less disappeared from Heart's playlist. Even a few months ago you were guaranteed to hear it at least once every night. Presumably it must have reached "burnout stage" in the testing labs.

    I wonder how long it will take for John Legend's All Of Me to reach burnout.

    It can't come soon enough as far as I'm concerned.

    And that Meghan Trainor thing as well.
  • SarahsaurusSarahsaurus Posts: 3,670
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    I hope that farmer isn't still texting in every Sunday morning while he's milking the cows,wondering why Jenni Falconer never reads his text out now..:(

    I wonder if she gets up early on Sunday morning and listens to her own show..probably not.:)
  • pi r squaredpi r squared Posts: 4,272
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    So, "If they don't make the grade,they don't get played".
    I assume that, like others have said, there's a little bit of gut instinct in there too. But generally I guess that is the case, yes. After all, why would you go out of your way to playlist a song that you know your audience don't want.

    The key phrase is, "your audience". As discussed a hundred times, you and I are not Heart's target audience. You listen because you have no choice; I listen because seemingly I share a music taste with your typical 25-44 year old female. It doesn't matter what you or I think, any more than it matters what you or I think of a certain brand of tampons or baby powder. You or I moaning about Heart is broadly the equivalent of us tuning into CBBC and complaining that the programmes aren't stimulating enough for us - no surprise, they aren't aimed at us! I grant you that CBBC doesn't take up 70% of the available channels, so the comparison falls over there, but "there isn't a station I prefer on my local dial" is not the same argument as "Heart is shit".
    Unfortunately that leaves us in the situation described in that blog,with the same few hundred songs getting played on an endless loop.
    Unfortunate for you, but fortunate for the people who like that, of which there seem to be a fair number. Again, "I don't like this" is different from "this is not good".

    Genuine question, is there a commercial radio station in the UK that plays a very wide selection of tracks and has listening figures (in terms of reach) that rival Heart's? And if there isn't, is it unfair to deduce that Heart are actually doing something right?
  • jon craigjon craig Posts: 1,391
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    Genuine question, is there a commercial radio station in the UK that plays a very wide selection of tracks and has listening figures (in terms of reach) that rival Heart's? And if there isn't, is it unfair to deduce that Heart are actually doing something right?

    They are certainly few and far between. Wave 105 would be the obvious exception. Their playlist is hugely eclectic and they consistently hit around 20% reach in a highly competitive market that contains Heart, Capital, Jack, The Breeze, IOW Radio plus all the BBC local and nationals. They do have the advantage though of inheriting the 'heritage station' tag. They have enjoyed stability whereas Ocean became Heart, and Power became Galaxy, then Capital.
  • SarahsaurusSarahsaurus Posts: 3,670
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    I know that Heart's "target audience" is female,aged 25-40 or whatever,who apparently love Ed Sheeran,Sam Smith,John Legend,etc,whereas I can't stand any of them. So I understand these tracks have to be played. (just not so often!)

    But what percentage of Heart's listener's aren't in the target audience? There must be a fair few. That farmer,for example.:) He probably listens to Heart for the same reason we do at work - it's about the only listenable station we can get on our cheap radio. There's very little else to listen to on FM in Scotland,unless you're about fifteen years old. And Radio2 is no use during the night,there's way too much wittering on and not enough music.

    Real Radio wasn't a brilliant station but it had more variety than Heart.

    As you say maybe nobody can make a commercial station work that plays a wide variety of music,so you get all these "niche" stations like Absolute 80s,but even they have quite a limited playlist. And even though I think eighties music is great,who wants to listen to just the 80s for eight hours straight? It gets tedious after a while.

    I have worked nightshift for more than twenty five years and have listened to many stations over the years - the Super Station,with people like Phil Kennedy and Gary King,anybody remember that? (Probably not.) There is definitely much less variety now in what gets played on commercial radio than there used to be.

    Anyway I have wittered on myself too much now.
  • cotton tailcotton tail Posts: 474
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    Well having changed from R2 to Heart North Wales, I'm now re tuning to find another station. 'Local' presenters that haven't even got the courtesy to learn local town names just annoys me so much, a breakfast presenter who wants to talk about how much money he has spent reminds me of why I stopped listening to Chris Evans.
  • radio tunerradio tuner Posts: 3,030
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    I hope that farmer isn't still texting in every Sunday morning while he's milking the cows,wondering why Jenni Falconer never reads his text out now..:(

    I wonder if she gets up early on Sunday morning and listens to her own show..probably not.:)

    if she did it would probably send her back to sleep it has that effect on me ..shes more suited to telly pretty but pointless
  • SmartProgrammerSmartProgrammer Posts: 1,623
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    Incidentally I notice Bruno Mars "Locked Out Of Heaven" seems to have more or less disappeared from Heart's playlist.
    Locked out of Heaven hasn't been dropped. You are more likely to hear it in breakfast, during the day or in the evening. As you listen overnight that's why you haven't heard it as much.
  • ThemaverickThemaverick Posts: 107
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    Locked out of Heaven hasn't been dropped. You are more likely to hear it in breakfast, during the day or in the evening. As you listen overnight that's why you haven't heard it as much.

    ....and we're less likely to hear back cat Bruno as he's featured on the Mark Ronson record which will be on an A list rotation.
  • simonk243simonk243 Posts: 3,405
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    Locked out of Heaven hasn't been dropped. You are more likely to hear it in breakfast, during the day or in the evening. As you listen overnight that's why you haven't heard it as much.

    Will Madonna's new track be played ? ☺
  • SarahsaurusSarahsaurus Posts: 3,670
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    Locked out of Heaven hasn't been dropped. You are more likely to hear it in breakfast, during the day or in the evening. As you listen overnight that's why you haven't heard it as much.

    Amelia Lily (remember her?) did a good version of Locked Out of Heaven when she was the support for Girls Aloud on their final tour two years ago. I went to ten dates on that tour,including all three in Newcastle and all three in Glasgow. Not that I'm obsessed with Girls Aloud or anything..:)
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