As far as I understand the current Ofcom regulations as applied currently to SKY only force them to offer the SD versions wholesale and not the HD ones.
So if you have BT you can only get SKY Sports in standard definition and not HD which is increasingly more unattractive as increasing customers upgrade to bigger TVs.
The more games BT have the more they can offer in HD which still a good USP. Plus by 2016 you can probably no doubt add in the first 4k broadcasts too.
All these BT supporters seem to be confident. But you never know they all may have a shock in store.
Ian.
Oh I totally agree, someone like Discovery may come along and totally trump either Sky or BT, they could get the pick of the games and leave Sky with peanuts and BT maybe with a poor one pack?
BT need either the Saturday 5.30pm or sunday 4pm matches. best possible combination for them is 5.30pm saturday and the blocking rights on either 1.30 sunday or saturday 12.30 if they are "only" to get 2 packs. No doubt Sky know this and will try and force their hand by upping the bids on all packs significantly. Anyone think that BT would sacrifice the 12.30pm games in the second round and put all their effort money wises into those 2? I seriously cant see them shelling out 4billion pounds for 5 packs based on the business model they have.
Oh I totally agree, someone like Discovery may come along and totally trump either Sky or BT, they could get the pick of the games and leave Sky with peanuts and BT maybe with a poor one pack?
Anything is possible.
BT might end up with nothing. The BT supporters seem to be very confident.
Ian.
- The closing date for first bids was Friday 8th June 2012
- The second round seems to have closed the following Wednesday 13th at noon. It was announced on the Wednesday at 2pm that there'd be a press conference that evening at 5pm. This press conference was shown live on Sky Sports News but there was no mention of it on SSN pre-5pm.
- Perhaps unsurprisingly there seems to be more media speculation this time around, Last time around the speculation was all packages had gone to a second round (which I don't think was the case) because no broadcaster had met the reserve price (which we know wasn't the case.) The only real potential leak was after the press conference had been announced when some journalists speculated on a 'twist'.
- There was about a 3 page thread on here with a sweepstake on when the result would be announced so this thread can certainly get worse yet!
These figures are quite staggering, if true I would suspect that BT will up their bid to make sure they "GET" what they set out for.
Makes me seriously wonder if Sky are in a good position going into round 2.
One thing for sure The Premier League are!
This will be nothing but guesswork. There are no leaks here. Nothing substantial whatsoever.
It will never cease to amaze me how much can be made on here, and in articles, out of no information at all. It is literally ’pick a number out of the air and eventually one of us will be right if we do it often enough’ stuff.
Why would having to wholesale be such a disaster for BT? Why the assumption that they just want to be the #2 sports broadcaster in the UK? They're probably well aware of the consequences of being in a 'dominant position' but they don't seem bothered.
It's very innocuous stuff - contains nothing we don't now - it says it's unlikely history will repeat itself (referring to the problems BT got itself into after takeovers in the early 2000's). It actually concludes that the shares are an "avoid" - ie not a "sell" - so conspiracy theories don't seem particularly relevant.
As for the comment about BT spending £1bn on PL rights it doesn't say whether this is per year or the total for the three year contract - which makes the comment literally completely meaningless!
Why would having to wholesale be such a disaster for BT? Why the assumption that they just want to be the #2 sports broadcaster in the UK? They're probably well aware of the consequences of being in a 'dominant position' but they don't seem bothered.
I agree, otherwise they wouldn't have gone after the majority in a covert way last time. Being the biggest doesn't phase BT. They're the biggest telephony provider and biggest broadband provider, now they have their sights set on tv and mobile.
It's very innocuous stuff - contains nothing we don't now - it says it's unlikely history will repeat itself (referring to the problems BT got itself into after takeovers in the early 2000's). It actually concludes that the shares are an "avoid" - ie not a "sell" - so conspiracy theories don't seem particularly relevant.
As for the comment about BT spending £1bn on PL rights it doesn't say whether this is per year or the total for the three year contract - which makes the comment literally completely meaningless!
What were the total rights between the two of them last time? Around £3bn?
I agree, otherwise they wouldn't have gone after the majority in a covert way last time. Being the biggest doesn't phase BT. They're the biggest telephony provider and biggest broadband provider, now they have their sights set on tv and mobile.
Which is why I suspect their wings will be clipped a little prior to the EE acquisition (Maybe in the way of a divestment of spectrum, Openreach and/or Wholesale), and a WMO imposed if they win substantially more PL rights.
- The closing date for first bids was Friday 8th June 2012
- The second round seems to have closed the following Wednesday 13th at noon. It was announced on the Wednesday at 2pm that there'd be a press conference that evening at 5pm. This press conference was shown live on Sky Sports News but there was no mention of it on SSN pre-5pm.
Thanks for this.
Of course anything is possible but the above probably represents the most likely template for what we can expect re timings.
The 1st round this time was again on a Friday so if history repeats itself (and there is no obvious reason for a change) it looks most likely the 2nd round will again be this coming Wednesday and if that is the end of it we should get an announcement at 5pm.
Announcement will not be before 5pm as Stock Exchange closes at 4.30pm (and then there are a few minutes for tidying up etc) so 5pm is the earliest realistic time.
Of course it could go to a 3rd round but I think I would rate that at less than a 50% chance.
Maybe I'm reading too much into the Sunday Times article but I did think the reference to staying in the race could imply more than two bidders. Then again the journalist may have no more insight than the rest of us.
Maybe I'm reading too much into the Sunday Times article but I did think the reference to staying in the race could imply more than two bidders. Then again the journalist may have no more insight than the rest of us.
I expect the latter re no more insight than us. Most of the recent articles I've come across you could have written weeks ago.
In the 2009 auction (for the 2010-2013 rights) it was announced that 4 of the 6 packages had being won by Sky, and that 2 packages had gone to a further round of bidding.
In the 2012 auction (for the 2013-2016 rights) it was announced that Sky had won 1 pack, and had lost 1 pack and that the other packages had gone to a 2nd round of bidding. It was not announced who had won the package that Sky had not got, and BT were only announced in the press conference.
This auction so far nothing has been announced I would have thought at least 1 package would have gone, but so far nothing.
With regards to BT having to wholesale their channel, Sky have to at the moment because of one reason they have the majority of Premier League rights. Should BT get 126 matches they will have to accept as a condition of them getting that many rights, that they have to wholesale their channel.
I think BT will probably be delighted if they get 126 matches, even if it means they have to wholesale their channel. There is still nothing stopping them selling their channel directly to Sky customers.
Finally if BT got 126 matches, Sky would be mad not to carry the BT channels on their own platform.
I realise the answer to this is somewhere in the 44 pages of this thread, but for those of us late to the party, how many rounds of bidding are there?
There is not a set number. There can be any number of rounds. The Premier League can accept or order another round of bidding when they like. However if they declare that a round will be a final round then it must be the final round.
In the 2012 auction (for the 2013-2016 rights) it was announced that Sky had won 1 pack, and had lost 1 pack and that the other packages had gone to a 2nd round of bidding. It was not announced who had won the package that Sky had not got, and BT were only announced in the press conference.
I don't think any such announcement was ever made re Round 1 in 2012.
There was speculation in the media re what happened in Round 1 but I don't think the PL made any actual announcement.
NB. I think the 2009 auction was different - the PL did make an announcement re Round 1 that time. I think it also made an announcement re Round 1 in the 2006 auction.
hows about a situation where sky get all the weekend packs with 1st pick games and BT get the rest. Sky can promote all weekend big games and bt could promote that they guarantee at 14 utd, liv ete games and some first games too in the little packs
Comments
As far as I understand the current Ofcom regulations as applied currently to SKY only force them to offer the SD versions wholesale and not the HD ones.
So if you have BT you can only get SKY Sports in standard definition and not HD which is increasingly more unattractive as increasing customers upgrade to bigger TVs.
The more games BT have the more they can offer in HD which still a good USP. Plus by 2016 you can probably no doubt add in the first 4k broadcasts too.
Oh I totally agree, someone like Discovery may come along and totally trump either Sky or BT, they could get the pick of the games and leave Sky with peanuts and BT maybe with a poor one pack?
Anything is possible.
BT might end up with nothing. The BT supporters seem to be very confident.
Ian.
Anything is possible, we'll find out in the next few days.
I know, it's just that the BT Sport supporters seem very very over confident and I'm not 100% certain which way it will go.
Ian.
Wish we had an insider or a Crystal ball. This isn't cut and dry at all is it? There's so many different scenarios that could play out.
- The closing date for first bids was Friday 8th June 2012
- The second round seems to have closed the following Wednesday 13th at noon. It was announced on the Wednesday at 2pm that there'd be a press conference that evening at 5pm. This press conference was shown live on Sky Sports News but there was no mention of it on SSN pre-5pm.
- Perhaps unsurprisingly there seems to be more media speculation this time around, Last time around the speculation was all packages had gone to a second round (which I don't think was the case) because no broadcaster had met the reserve price (which we know wasn't the case.) The only real potential leak was after the press conference had been announced when some journalists speculated on a 'twist'.
- There was about a 3 page thread on here with a sweepstake on when the result would be announced so this thread can certainly get worse yet!
It will never cease to amaze me how much can be made on here, and in articles, out of no information at all. It is literally ’pick a number out of the air and eventually one of us will be right if we do it often enough’ stuff.
It's very innocuous stuff - contains nothing we don't now - it says it's unlikely history will repeat itself (referring to the problems BT got itself into after takeovers in the early 2000's). It actually concludes that the shares are an "avoid" - ie not a "sell" - so conspiracy theories don't seem particularly relevant.
As for the comment about BT spending £1bn on PL rights it doesn't say whether this is per year or the total for the three year contract - which makes the comment literally completely meaningless!
I agree, otherwise they wouldn't have gone after the majority in a covert way last time. Being the biggest doesn't phase BT. They're the biggest telephony provider and biggest broadband provider, now they have their sights set on tv and mobile.
What were the total rights between the two of them last time? Around £3bn?
Per year:
Sky - £760m
BT - £246m
Total - £1,006m
3 year total:
Sky - £2,280m
BT - £738m
Total - £3,018m
Thanks for this.
Of course anything is possible but the above probably represents the most likely template for what we can expect re timings.
The 1st round this time was again on a Friday so if history repeats itself (and there is no obvious reason for a change) it looks most likely the 2nd round will again be this coming Wednesday and if that is the end of it we should get an announcement at 5pm.
Announcement will not be before 5pm as Stock Exchange closes at 4.30pm (and then there are a few minutes for tidying up etc) so 5pm is the earliest realistic time.
Of course it could go to a 3rd round but I think I would rate that at less than a 50% chance.
In the 2012 auction (for the 2013-2016 rights) it was announced that Sky had won 1 pack, and had lost 1 pack and that the other packages had gone to a 2nd round of bidding. It was not announced who had won the package that Sky had not got, and BT were only announced in the press conference.
This auction so far nothing has been announced I would have thought at least 1 package would have gone, but so far nothing.
With regards to BT having to wholesale their channel, Sky have to at the moment because of one reason they have the majority of Premier League rights. Should BT get 126 matches they will have to accept as a condition of them getting that many rights, that they have to wholesale their channel.
I think BT will probably be delighted if they get 126 matches, even if it means they have to wholesale their channel. There is still nothing stopping them selling their channel directly to Sky customers.
Finally if BT got 126 matches, Sky would be mad not to carry the BT channels on their own platform.
There is not a set number. There can be any number of rounds. The Premier League can accept or order another round of bidding when they like. However if they declare that a round will be a final round then it must be the final round.
I don't think any such announcement was ever made re Round 1 in 2012.
There was speculation in the media re what happened in Round 1 but I don't think the PL made any actual announcement.
NB. I think the 2009 auction was different - the PL did make an announcement re Round 1 that time. I think it also made an announcement re Round 1 in the 2006 auction.
Can't imagine what they'd need to charge. It could be a financial disaster for BT if they get that many.
Can't imagine Sky customers flocking to BT to get a YouView box and they'll need fibre to get a decent picture.
People will go wherever the content is. Unlike some here people don't have a personal affinity with the different broadcasters.