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The Good Wife - Season 5 - More4 Pace *No Spoilers*

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    NinjyBearNinjyBear Posts: 8,317
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    Pleased to see Will outsmarting Alicia :D
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    NormandieNormandie Posts: 4,617
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    The show has really been successfully reinvigorated by the arrival of Florrick Agos but I'm slightly unsure whether I'm still enjoying it as much. What Alicia and Cary have done is normal. Ambitious people look to satisfy their ambitions - it is presumably exactly what Will and Diane once did themselves. I like all the main characters and I really hope that the show won't come to depend on pure animosity between the two sets of partners... I don't want to have to choose sides.

    Peter is setting himself up for a fall - and I don't trust the vomiting Melissa George character as far as I can... er... throw her - and I'm happy with all of that. But I really hope we don't end up with too much viciousness between Will, Alicia and Diane. Or Kalinda. That's what happens in cheap soaps and TGW deserves better.
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    NihongaNihonga Posts: 10,618
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    Normandie wrote: »
    The show has really been successfully reinvigorated by the arrival of Florrick Agos but I'm slightly unsure whether I'm still enjoying it as much. What Alicia and Cary have done is normal. Ambitious people look to satisfy their ambitions - it is presumably exactly what Will and Diane once did themselves. I like all the main characters and I really hope that the show won't come to depend on pure animosity between the two sets of partners... I don't want to have to choose sides.

    Peter is setting himself up for a fall - and I don't trust the vomiting Melissa George character as far as I can... er... throw her - and I'm happy with all of that. But I really hope we don't end up with too much viciousness between Will, Alicia and Diane. Or Kalinda. That's what happens in cheap soaps and TGW deserves better.

    Good post, Normandie. I agree. It's exactly what I was feeling after I finished watching. I don't want to choose sides and, regardless of where the series goes, I will try to retain that stance as much as I can. Having said all that though, I do find myself again more on Will and Diane's side this last week. I don't disagree with Cary wanting to leave the firm and branch out himself. He's been rolled over twice by Lockhart/Gardner, and as you say what he is doing in setting up his firm is completely normal. What drives me however to feel more for Will and Diane atm are

    1) as characters, I really don't know the rest of associates in the Florrick/Agos set-up, so I can't feel for them and their particular situation;

    2) still find myself liking and prefering Kalinda more than Robyn. I don't know what it is but for me Kalinda is more objective and less visceral in her work. She's always been above board in her work and sets out to protect the firm or whoever she is working for as much as she can. I don't know how to explain it other than to say that while I don't dislike or hate Robyn, I'm not overly enamoured by her either, and I really don't know why.:confused:

    3) Alicia. Lord, I'm having problems liking her since she left Lockhart/Gardner. Again like Cary, I can understand her wanting to start up her own law firm etc, etc. I don't hate/dislike her atm, but she is annoying me a bit. I think in the end for me it's the way she (in particular) went about it, especially as someone who was not only close to Diane and Will but who was literally saved by their kindness to her (if it was a little self-serving of Will and Diane in many ways). Thing is, what Will and Grace did for Alicia was mutually beneficial to all three parties. The irony though is that Will initally gave Alicia a job as a friend. But her usefulness over time only became apparent as a result of her relationship with Peter, former State Attorney; newly elected Governor. But I guess that's the whole point of TGW. Politics, whether personal/private or professional/public or local/national, is a dirty game. And she is at the very centre of it all. It's to Julianna Margulies's credit that her performances manage to retain Alicia's likeability and not have it wholly destoryed. It's not an easy balance to maintain, and it will be tough-going this season I think. One other thing about Alicia is Peter giving her a hand-up re Chumnum. I don't know what it is but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The Good Wife has gone rogue.

    As I said last week if Alicia really wants to be as person 'independent' in her career, just working own her talent and being respected of it, then don't receive hand-outs from your very powerful, influencial governor-husband and then start whining that he's interfering when his politics begins to encroach on her career. The scene will her and Mitch in the bathroom was a case in point. Either Peter stays out of Alicia's business or he doesn't and she lets him. And if he doesn't and she's let him, then I hope Alicia doesn't whine and moan and sulk and go all philosophical about it (especially if his 'interference' bites her on her bum).

    4) Will and Diane. I've already mentioned how I feel about them re: Alicia. I understand they've gone all out war against Alicia (and Peter). I just fear they will go too far and it too will come biting them on the bum as much as Peter's unethical ways will come back to haunt him and Alicia. This episode the one character I felt truly sorry for was Diane. To be feel doubly betrayed by the Florricks and then by Kurt her husband, I felt her heartbreak and pain. I remember when Alicia first started out how Diane went out of her way to reach out to her, wanting to act like as a mentor in Alicia's career. All so very sad.

    I'm in two minds about Mitch, the Chairman/woman/person/thing of the Ethics Commission. For the moment, I like her as a character. I don't know if Peter will do the dirty with her over Alicia; it wouldn't surprise me if he did. What Alicia doesn't know is it was Peter who told Mitch to call him 'Peter' and not 'Governor'. Is Alicia becoming a little naive about her husband now that he is Governor? Once she exchanges commitment vows with him, the lines will blurred even more. She won't see the wood for the trees at this rate.

    All in all, I understand why the series has taken this turn. It needed an adrenalin shot in the arm. I just hope it isn't going to be one long series of hatred and animosity between the two firms.
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    anyonefortennisanyonefortennis Posts: 111,858
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    How hard can it be to find office space in a big city like that. Especially considering the poor state of the economy over there and the amount of law firms folding.
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    TiexenTiexen Posts: 602
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    How hard can it be to find office space in a big city like that. Especially considering the poor state of the economy over there and the amount of law firms folding.

    It still must take a few weeks sign lease, arrange phone/internet, and its not helped when someone calls the health department and gets the building shut down, or takes over the company your going to share with....
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    anyonefortennisanyonefortennis Posts: 111,858
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    Tiexen wrote: »
    It still must take a few weeks sign lease, arrange phone/internet, and its not helped when someone calls the health department and gets the building shut down, or takes over the company your going to share with....

    Then just sign another lease elsewhere. If Peter can threaten a big company like Chum Hum then surely he could easily find her office space with all his connections.
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    NormandieNormandie Posts: 4,617
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    At the risk of sounding like we're setting up a mutual admiration society, excellent post, Nihonga! :D
    Nihonga wrote: »
    1) as characters, I really don't know the rest of associates in the Florrick/Agos set-up, so I can't feel for them and their particular situation...
    I think the new associates will provide Alicia and Cary with a lot of angst - managing them will be a whole minefield of problems and while they've worked with and probably respect Cary, I perceive they don't respect Alicia for anything more than her surname. They're simply the 4th year associates who decided to jump ship - they weren't handpicked by A & C for their attitudes, values, expertise so there will be a long way to go before Florrick Agos is a fully fledged and working partnership of lawyers.
    Nihonga wrote: »
    2) ...still find myself liking and prefering Kalinda more than Robyn.
    Me too. I suppose that, to be fair to Robyn, we've simply been through more with Kalinda and I love her morally ambiguous yet loyal attitude (mostly) to her friends persona. Robyn is a bit of a pale shadow of Kalinda thus far.
    Nihonga wrote: »
    3)I think in the end for me it's the way she (in particular) went about it, especially as someone who was not only close to Diane and Will but who was literally saved by their kindness to her (if it was a little self-serving of Will and Diane in many ways). Thing is, what Will and Grace did for Alicia was mutually beneficial to all three parties.
    That's right. With Alicia, they certainly got a good deal. And there's a problem with long-lasting gratitude. Yes, they gave her a chance when she needed one but one helps because one can - it's not a persisting debt that can be called in as often as required. Any mentoring Alicia got from Diane was Diane investing in a product (Alicia) that delivered profits direct to W & D. I view chances and mentoring etc as simply business-efficient rather than a generous gift.
    Nihonga wrote: »
    One other thing about Alicia is Peter giving her a hand-up re Chumnum. I don't know what it is but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The Good Wife has gone rogue.
    Well, to be kind to Alicia, she didn't know that Peter was going to interfere. And I think she's stretched so thin - not least protecting her daughter from all these dynamic males parked right outside Grace's bedroom. Grace's face in the car when Alicia decided to take her over to Kurt's was a perfect study in teenage pique. Fabulous scene.
    Nihonga wrote: »
    4) This episode the one character I felt truly sorry for was Diane. To be feel doubly betrayed by the Florricks and then by Kurt her husband, I felt her heartbreak and pain.
    Totally - though I think she can rationalise Kurt's professionalism. But to have lost her judgeship when she gave so much to get it... I felt her pain.
    Nihonga wrote: »
    I'm in two minds about Mitch, the Chairman/woman/person/thing of the Ethics Commission. For the moment, I like her as a character.
    So do I - don't trust her but a role with great duplicitous potential. However, I think here is part of my problem. How on earth are they going to shoehorn all the characters into the show - they're all worthy, I don't think any of their stories are done - Jackie, Eli, Kalinda, the various judges and lawyers - but some are going to have to be ditched because each episode is only about 50 minutes long. I think I could end up getting frustrated because TGW ends up with lots of walk on appearances by excellent characters but the show becoming quite disjointed as it tries to include and progress too many storylines.

    Still very good tv, though and time will tell whether it descends into a bitch fest or remains intelligent, compelling tv.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,379
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    I accidentally saw when looking up when GW was returning that ethics woman was pregnant and the title questioned if it was Peters? How long has the series been running in real time as it would makes a difference as to whether this might be true?

    Has the show got new writers as it's just suddenly gone into old exciting show territory with the best episodes it's had in a long time.
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    Hershey2Hershey2 Posts: 514
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    Oh I am so torn with this, not sure if I am Team Alicia or Team Will at the moment.

    I thought Diane was in the wrong regarding the conversation with her husband over the gun thing, he said they had made a pact or had an agreement or something that they wouldn't impinge on each others views/decisions re work (not verbatim).

    Thought her 'go, be a hero' comment was very cutting.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 235
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    I love this show so much!

    It's so hard to be team Will, Team Alicia or team anyone because they've all done sneaky stuff at one time or another. I think overall though my sympathy is with Will, he genuinely helped Alicia when she was at her lowest ebb in the early days. Diane however I struggle to feel sympathy with as she soon sold Will and the whole company down the river just to try make sure she got her Judgeship. Can't quite believe she didn't realize that chance was gone!

    Alicia is either incredibly naive or very calculating when she lets Peter influence her business, eg Chumhum but maybe doing it because she genuinely loves him and is trying to start her marriage over allows her to be a bit blind??
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    StansfieldStansfield Posts: 6,097
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    Robyn 1 : Kalinda 0....:o


    Not going for any team, just hope it's not one-upmanship each week...it needs to settle down quickly.

    Did like the Grace Watch, Alicia had to do at the apartment, but they need to get an Office quick.


    Liked the Tattoo Girl.;-)
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,824
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    Bit weird that last season centred around Lockhart Gardener's dire financial state, but now they're apparently so flushed with cash (in spite of losing some of their best clients) that Will can go around casually buying up other practices on a whim, to inconvenience Alicia.
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    NinjyBearNinjyBear Posts: 8,317
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    Renewed for season 6 :)
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    Philip WilsonPhilip Wilson Posts: 1,305
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    NinjyBear wrote: »
    Renewed for season 6 :)

    Yay :D

    Another good ep tonight, glad to see the number cruncher back (sorry can't remember his name), and so much back stabbing going on! :o
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,379
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    Good episode tonight, seemed like a 2 parter for some reason especially with the Jeffrey murder thing. Is the Grace/Zack stuff seeming a bit strange or is that just me?
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    Darth-HabibDarth-Habib Posts: 466
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    alixfowler wrote: »
    Good episode tonight, seemed like a 2 parter for some reason especially with the Jeffrey murder thing. Is the Grace/Zack stuff seeming a bit strange or is that just me?

    Not just you.

    I'm not what to make sure of that final scene.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,373
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    alixfowler wrote: »
    Good episode tonight, seemed like a 2 parter for some reason especially with the Jeffrey murder thing. Is the Grace/Zack stuff seeming a bit strange or is that just me?

    Not just you, I'm finding it odd too. There's a really weird vibe there, I think they were aiming to bring them closer but it kinda plays out like sexual tension onscreen. Which is obviously not good for a brother/sister relationship. I wonder what the payoff is in terms of future storylines, or was it just done to mirror Alicia and Owen in this episode?
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    NinjyBearNinjyBear Posts: 8,317
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    Definitely creepy. Reminded me of the way Thea acted around Ollie in season 1 of Arrow :o
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    NormandieNormandie Posts: 4,617
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    I didn't find it weird or creepy - I just think it demonstrated that when two high / over-achieving parents have kids, kids who (I hope) don't go off the tracks still have to find their own ways of dealing with teen problems. Especially when some of those problems are exacerbated by exactly their parents' high profile. They have to rely and trust each other far more than average teenagers. But I could be wrong. :D

    The whole "ratting" thing was creepy enough on its own but I can't see how having a public fight like that won't come back and bite Zack - there have to be consequences. Plus, the Grace stuff is still out there...

    I did initially assume it was the NSA nerds who were activating the webcams in the hope of getting inside information on Alicia and her terrorist connections (if I'm remembering that correctly) because I don't think that storyline has played out, yet... has it?
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    bel110bel110 Posts: 14,085
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    I also assumed it was those two NSA guys, it makes sense that Alicia will blame L&G but David Lee clearly didn´t know what she was talking about. Weren´t the NSA also investigating Diane? I think it´s going to play out eventually that Diane and Alicia will have to bury the hatchet and work together or else Diane will stick the knife in to get back at Peter over the judgeship.

    I quite like Zak defending his sister, I think he feels like he has to be the man of the house and take matters into his own hands. I actually find Alicia´s brother more creepy ... it´s odd the way he has no contact with her for months and then feels like he can be the authority on her love life to the point of going to Will ... I find all that a bit strange but then maybe it´s cos he´s just never liked Peter very much!

    Hope they return to the murder case, I was flipping back and forth as to whether the college kid was the killer or not! Nice to see Kalinda investigating again too ....
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    NihongaNihonga Posts: 10,618
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    Normandie wrote: »
    I didn't find it weird or creepy - I just think it demonstrated that when two high / over-achieving parents have kids, kids who (I hope) don't go off the tracks still have to find their own ways of dealing with teen problems. Especially when some of those problems are exacerbated by exactly their parents' high profile. They have to rely and trust each other far more than average teenagers. But I could be wrong. :D

    The whole "ratting" thing was creepy enough on its own but I can't see how having a public fight like that won't come back and bite Zack - there have to be consequences. Plus, the Grace stuff is still out there...

    I did initially assume it was the NSA nerds who were activating the webcams in the hope of getting inside information on Alicia and her terrorist connections (if I'm remembering that correctly) because I don't think that storyline has played out, yet... has it?

    Bib: Yeah, same here. You've really got to get out of my head, Normandie. It's creepy!:p:D. They are incredibly mature for their age; they've had to do a lot of growing up while their parent's marriage was literally falling apart round them. They're already seeing how stressed and overworked Alicia has been - she overslept last week, for instance. Their home is in a chaotic mess; their father is Governor and doesn't even live with them and up to his ears with governor stuff. And besides, Zach is such a techno geek, he'll find it a lot easier and quicker if he found out what was going on himself than rely on his parents (who have no clue and tend to go to him for help on these sorts of things). As for the ending, I don't think there was anything strange to read into it other than:

    1) the green-light webcam surveillance was sufficient to spook even Zach who is more than clued-up when it comes these things. I mean, someone with enough nouse could hack into your computer and remote control it from anywhere in the world. That's freaky, and that was what the green-light suggested to him.

    2) it foreshadows the NSA episode. The NSA are doing exactly that - listening into your calls, flagging your e-mails etc from somewhere in the US. The whole Snowden stuff broke long after this season was already filmed, and Juliannes mentioned or made reference to it in one of her interviews as the show began broadcasting last year.

    I also noticed that neither Zach nor Grace said anything to Alicia (where on earth is Peter in all this btw?) so it is unlikely the story has finished. For example, there is a naked Grace floating about in cyberspace and on a cheap $9.99 a month subscription charge. (That's £6). There was no indication that the site or pictures were taken down either by Zach or Stiles. Peter's enemies could use it against him and imagine how badly it would reflect on Alicia.

    The term "ratting" in a sexual context is a strange one that only Americans seem to understand. At least I've only heard it used in terms of "snitching on" or "grassing up" someone. Apparently, according to this site, "rat" is sometimes short for the term "ratchet" which means 'ghetto dirty or nasty commonly used by girls when insulting another girl'. It can also be used to refer to imply a prominscous female/girl. And there is the term "rat out" which urban dictionary describes as thus. Weird, but there you go. That's the only part that confused me. Such a strange word to use.

    I'm not entirely convinced with Owen's intervention. I didn't like how he was able to come up with a reson Alicia left. He's a lecturer on Mathematical Sciences not Psychology. Also, I didn't like that I was told why Alicia left. I would much rather have discovered that over time from Alicia herself. What Owen said now puts the "Will/Alicia" romance back in the forefront, though I'm heartened with what Will said to Owen in the lift. What Alicia did to him was too much of a betrayal to brush away lightly. As it is, I felt as if they (the writers) were trying to make Alicia less strident in her manner (you know, dishing out excuses), because for me right now I'm not particularly liking the woman atm.:( (ANd I don't like feeling this way). She did what she did because she was afraid of falling in love with Will and leaving Peter and her marriage falling apart, that's why she stabbed you in the back:confused: - I mean, how was Will (or any man who has been in love with a woman since their uni days and helped out when she needed it) supposed to react on hearing that explanantion, lol?!

    I did wonder why Alicia left the firm to set up on her own: it seemed a bit hodge-podge. While there is some truth to what Owen said, I still think she did it for other reasons as well. If it was just to do with her fear of falling for Will and leaving Peter for him, she went about leaving the firm in a back-handed way. Why punish Diane? Why hurt Will? Whatever did he do to deserve that? Nah, it's too simplistic, but if that is the truth then I think for me it's a cruel way to go about things.

    All in all, a good episode, I thought. I sooo love Thursday nights:D How many 4th associates will left by the end of the series? At this rate, it will be Cary, Alicia, the former CPA-cum-lawyer guy whose name I forget and Robyn who will be left to run the shop. $6 miliion - how on earth is Alicia going to find that amount to pay?! Only in America, as they say...
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    TiexenTiexen Posts: 602
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    Nihonga wrote: »
    $6 miliion - how on earth is Alicia going to find that amount to pay?! Only in America, as they say...

    Didn't they flip it back to David Lee, Clarke Hayden was the trustee at the time and said it was David Lee in charge?
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    Philip WilsonPhilip Wilson Posts: 1,305
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    Tiexen wrote: »
    Didn't they flip it back to David Lee, Clarke Hayden was the trustee at the time and said it was David Lee in charge?

    Then the 4th year who jumped ship back to Lockhart Gardner dropped Alicia in it so she is now responsible.
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    NosaerNosaer Posts: 3,431
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    I think RAT is a technical term meaning remote access technology or something like that
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    NihongaNihonga Posts: 10,618
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    Nosaer wrote: »
    I think RAT is a technical term meaning remote access technology or something like that

    Ahh, that makes sooo much sense now! Thank you:) Not such a strange word to use after all.

    Tiexen: What Philip Wilson said. The 4th year did a dirty on her:( Oh, and thank you for the name check - Clarke Hayden. Must remember that next time.
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