So so confused by Islam and the whole `peaceful religion` thing.

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  • FMKKFMKK Posts: 32,074
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    Again, some knowledge of the new testament would help us have a meaningful exchange. The wars the Jews found themselves in have nothing to do with how Jesus tells Christians to live.

    But then the problem is this: how many wars have been fought at least partially in the name of Christianity? How many people have claimed to have the support of both God and the Pope? How many dictatorships have been backed by the church even in the last century?

    You can say that this goes against the teaching of Jesus etc. but there is no denying that the name of Christianity has been used in all sorts of atrocities. Look even at the religious rhetoric of Bush and Blair before the war in Iraq. Bush talking about crusades, evoking just war theory going on about his faith. To an uninformed outsider, it could look like Christianity was going to war rather than the US and Britain.
  • haphashhaphash Posts: 21,448
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    I find the whole jihad idea very worrying. How can any religion claim to be peaceful when they hold these beliefs?

    I'm not a supporter of Christianity either. Too much evil has been done in this world in the name or religion.
  • RogerBaileyRogerBailey Posts: 1,959
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    Sniffle774 wrote: »
    Refusing to condemn all Muslims I see....you leftie Marxist apologist.

    Sometimes this forum is like a competition to see who is the ultimate self-loathing liberal drip.
  • Sniffle774Sniffle774 Posts: 20,290
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    Sometimes this forum is like a competition to see who is the ultimate self-loathing liberal drip.

    It is ? Crikey....
  • flashgordon1952flashgordon1952 Posts: 3,799
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    The moslems have been at war with themselves for a thousand years// each Islamic religion(one centred in Saudi Arabia (nutters) and one that is centred in Iran ( the worse kind of nutter "dangerous").
    They cant even agree themselves let alone other religions who they regrard as non Islamic (forgetting to mention that Christian religion is older) and forgetting to mention that all islamics in those middle eastern countries have there routes in the jewish religion ! (strange that?)
    Then we come to the embarrassment as to why the Islamic religion is in fact split into two main religions.
    It goes from way back after the founder had died when two brothers had a row who would be the ruler of the nation of islam. One was favoured by the "founder" himself ! while the other (we believe younger ) fought a war. which one of them won and the other was forced to "flee" ,wth his followers and wives to Persia ( now iran) and now you know whythere is so much trouble in Syria and the rest of the middle eastern world..
    Each of them claim to represent the moslem world..which they have for a thousand years or more.. Maybe its time they actually spoke to one another than fight, but being "stupid" like they don't. (a bit like the protestants and catholics in northern Ireland (bone headed and stupid) a great combination ( who really cares what happened in cromwells days of the derry boys ,sorry London derry . Pathetic ! I call it there is more to life than hatred !
  • FMKKFMKK Posts: 32,074
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    Sometimes this forum is like a competition to see who is the ultimate self-loathing liberal drip.

    Oh please. Mr Fundamentalist Christian is going to come on to assert the superiority of his religion and we should all just accept it? I don't think so.
  • WanderinWonderWanderinWonder Posts: 3,719
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    Rorschach wrote: »
    Right, not at all like Christianity then which has preached "love thy neighbour" and forgiveness for centuries whilst inspiring crusades, witch burnings and homophobic attacks.

    We can certainly feel superior, seeing as Christinaity has never been the cause for any sectarian violence. Isn't that right my little Orange friend?

    Two wrongs don't make a right. Both religions have been as bad as each other.
  • AneechikAneechik Posts: 20,208
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    It's not a religion of peace at all, that's just bollocks - no religion is a religion of peace except maybe Wicca.

    I think the problem Islamic countries have is that they are generally not advanced and as we can see from the developed world, the more advanced a country becomes, the more atheist it is. That applies to Christianity in Africa as much as Islam in the Middle East, and it even applies to Buddhists in Sri Lanka.

    The problem Muslims have in Britain, is that they were invited here largely by people that don't have to live next door to them, and are mostly unwanted by the people that do, which excludes them from our society and they find community in the idea of a global nation of Islam, which is an intrinsically tyrannical movement; so rather than being affected by British atheism, they go the other way and become more fundamentalist. It's very telling that opinion polls show young British Muslims have far more draconian views than their parents and grandparents do. I don't know how that should be dealt with.
  • vanzandtfanvanzandtfan Posts: 8,897
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    FMKK wrote: »
    Who has excused anything? Find one post that excuses yesterday's actions or any act of violence

    It was in answer to a post that accused people of excusing the crimes of Christianity.
    FMKK wrote: »
    The point is, there exists a perception that Islam is uniquely violent. Not only is this false, but it allows people to get on a moral high horse and is even exploited different extremists.

    But Islam is particularly violent, extremist and ultra-conservative, right from it's origins to it's current manisfestation. Some people wish to ignore this by pretending that other religions are just as bad, or by comparing single verses from the relevant Holy Books without reference to the status of those verses in the respective religions, but facts are facts.
  • kimindexkimindex Posts: 68,247
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    ^Pure xenophobia, masquerading as commentary.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,177
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    Sometimes this forum is like a competition to see who is the ultimate self-loathing liberal drip.
    :D:D:D Like.
  • vanzandtfanvanzandtfan Posts: 8,897
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    Sniffle774 wrote: »
    Fair point. I guess I just think blaming the religion is allowing those that carry out these act an easy absolution for what they do.

    Does the same apply to people who seek to explain their actions by blaming referencing British foreign policy?
    If we, however, blame one religion for the sins of the faithful then surely we much blame all religions for the sins of there faithful and then, do we not also have to blame them, for the good of the faithful ?

    Thats absurdly over simplistic. No-one is talking about blaming all the sins of the faithful, or the good deeds, onto the religion. All I am saying is

    a. When you look in the world today, the is a clear problem with Islamic violence and extremism. Far more so than other religions
    b. When you look at the origins of Islam, all the way back to it's founder, violence and extremism were a part of Islam. Far more so than other religions.

    is it really so hard to imagine that there may be a connection between these two facts?
  • vanzandtfanvanzandtfan Posts: 8,897
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    kimindex wrote: »
    ^Pure xenophobia, masquerading as commentary.

    WTF

    care to point out what is xenophobic about my post. Or maybe even care you point out where it is wrong. Or are you just going to avoid debate by making dumbass accusations like this
  • Sniffle774Sniffle774 Posts: 20,290
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    Does the same apply to people who seek to explain their actions by blaming referencing British foreign policy?

    Well leaving aside those who say we are to blame period we have to accept in the eyes of some this is an issue and we would be foolish to not acknowledge that. It very well be utter tosh but ignoring it as a reason in the eyes of some is to fail to understand motivations.
    Thats absurdly over simplistic. No-one is talking about blaming all the sins of the faithful, or the good deeds, onto the religion. All I am saying is

    a. When you look in the world today, the is a clear problem with Islamic violence and extremism. Far more so than other religions
    b. When you look at the origins of Islam, all the way back to it's founder, violence and extremism were a part of Islam. Far more so than other religions.

    is it really so hard to imagine that there may be a connection between these two facts?

    I utterly agree, it is overly simplistic which is the point i was making.
  • vanzandtfanvanzandtfan Posts: 8,897
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    Sniffle774 wrote: »
    Well leaving aside those who say we are to blame period we have to accept in the eyes of some this is an issue and we would be foolish to not acknowledge that. It very well be utter tosh but ignoring it as a reason in the eyes of some is to fail to understand motivations.

    So thats okay, but to recognise that religion maybe an issue is giving the terrorists absolution. This makes no sense


    I utterly agree, it is overly simplistic which is the point i was making.

    But it was you who were overly simplifying. All you are doing is offering an simplistic strawman and then when someone points out it's simplistic, you claim it proves your point.

    How about not simplifying the issue in the first place and dealing with the question at hand
  • DinkyDoobieDinkyDoobie Posts: 17,786
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    The problem is that Islam isn't just a religion, it's a political ideology as well and that is why it is incompatible and that is where the tensions come from.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,177
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    WTF

    care to point out what is xenophobic about my post. Or maybe even care you point out where it is wrong. Or are you just going to avoid debate by making dumbass accusations like this

    That's what words like that were invented for. To avoid the issue.
  • CitizenofPhobosCitizenofPhobos Posts: 1,677
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    Fizgig wrote: »
    :D:D:D Like.

    ..Funnier still is that a lot of the liberals here defending Islam are homosexuals, which is a bit like a Gazelle protecting a Crocodile.
  • Sniffle774Sniffle774 Posts: 20,290
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    ..Funnier still is that a lot of the liberals here defending Islam are homosexuals, which is a bit like a Gazelle protecting a Crocodile.

    What is funny is that time and time you miss the point. No one is defending Islam, least of all me. What we are defending is the right of people who are Muslims to NOT be blamed for actions that are not there fault.
  • SpiderMan 83SpiderMan 83 Posts: 11,590
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    Styles wrote: »
    They like to pretend that it is a religion of peace but in reality it is a wolf in sheeps clothing that has got into the herd and means to slowly make a meal of it till only it exists on a pile of bones.

    Rubbish, i know many Muslims who'd never ever do a thing like this, there is more like this then those who do these twisted things.

    Im not a Muslim but to say this is wrong.
  • DinkyDoobieDinkyDoobie Posts: 17,786
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    Sniffle774 wrote: »
    What is funny is that time and time you miss the point. No one is defending Islam, least of all me. What we are defending is the right of people who are Muslims to NOT be blamed for actions that are not there fault.

    Potential for godwin, over 9000.
  • -Sid--Sid- Posts: 29,365
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    Sniffle774 wrote: »
    What is funny is that time and time you miss the point. No one is defending Islam, least of all me. What we are defending is the right of people who are Muslims to NOT be blamed for actions that are not there fault.

    Deliberately so.

    I made my position to them very clear yesterday.

    You can be gay and have Muslim friends who don't want to kill you, or have you locked up, or even stop you from getting married. I'm living proof of that.

    Defending innocent Muslims who wish people no harm is not the same as defending Islam's stance on homosexuality.
  • Sniffle774Sniffle774 Posts: 20,290
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    So thats okay, but to recognise that religion maybe an issue is giving the terrorists absolution. This makes no sense





    But it was you who were overly simplifying. All you are doing is offering an simplistic strawman and then when someone points out it's simplistic, you claim it proves your point.

    How about not simplifying the issue in the first place and dealing with the question at hand

    It does prove my point. If we blame a religion for the actions of bad people, then what do we "blame" for the actions of good people ? There has to be at least one other factor. It might be a twisted distortion of reality, i.e. we are to blame because of foreign policy, but you look at the reasons these people give and its seldom just as simple as a passage in the Koran. Its normally something more recent like Western presence on the Saudi pennisular or the invasion of Iraq. So to say that these people are this way JUST becuase they are Muslims is missing out the full picture. There are millions of Muslims who DONT act this way. Why not ? Religion itself is a concept, it has no form or power other than what people give it. So in many ways its a mirror to the thoughts and deeds of the people who follow it. In the same way guns dont kill people...religion doesnt kill people. People kill people.
  • vanzandtfanvanzandtfan Posts: 8,897
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    Sniffle774 wrote: »
    What is funny is that time and time you miss the point. No one is defending Islam, least of all me. What we are defending is the right of people who are Muslims to NOT be blamed for actions that are not there fault.

    But you are defending the religion e.g.

    "Fair point. I guess I just think blaming the religion is allowing those that carry out these act an easy absolution for what they do. If we, however, blame one religion for the sins of the faithful then surely we much blame all religions for the sins of there faithful and then, do we not also have to blame them, for the good of the faithful ? "

    You are clearly talking about the religion, and not all Muslims
  • Sniffle774Sniffle774 Posts: 20,290
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    Potential for godwin, over 9000.

    Really...oh well.
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