The argument of a small child with pocket money, not an adult in the real world. I didnt realise that you dont actually spend money when you buy something new to replace something you have sold. I look forward to people robbing you blind the next time you buy a house or trade in your car.
Indeed, its similar to spurs fans not seeing the absolute disaster the signings of AVB are.
Yes, it was a "free" 90 million, but for that you lost a fantastic game winning player and paid huge money (and wages) on players that just are never going to be good enough.
Over their contracts, they will cost the club another 100million
Torres was once an amazing player who scored a lot of goals. Chelsea gambled that when they signed him he'd become that amazing player once again but the gamble didn't pay off. Fellaini, on the other hand, was never an amazing player and god only knows why Moyes thought he'd be good enough for the champions.
Carroll was too expensive but he wasn't a stupid signing because it looked like he might be the next big thing and anyway we had just sold Torres for a lot more so in effect Carroll didn't cost us anything.
So nice try, but no cigar for you on this occasion.:p
Indeed, its similar to spurs fans not seeing the absolute disaster the signings of AVB are.
Yes, it was a "free" 90 million, but for that you lost a fantastic game winning player and paid huge money (and wages) on players that just are never going to be good enough.
Over their contracts, they will cost the club another 100million
not sure all of them were AVB signings and also not convinced all of them are duds
still a good team built there, heck they might equal last seasons positional finish so it hasnt been a horrendus waste of money
Carroll was too expensive but he wasn't a stupid signing because it looked like he might be the next big thing and anyway we had just sold Torres for a lot more so in effect Carroll didn't cost us anything.
So nice try, but no cigar for you on this occasion.:p
So if Liverpool paid £49m on Andy Carroll, it wouldn't have been a bad signing because we sold Torres for £50m?
If Man United sold Anderson, and for £30m, then paid £27m for Fellaini, would that still be a stupid signing? Fellaini would, in effect, not cost Man United anything.
So if Liverpool paid £49m on Andy Carroll, it wouldn't have been a bad signing because we sold Torres for £50m?
If Man United sold Anderson, and for £30m, then paid £27m for Fellaini, would that still be a stupid signing? Fellaini would, in effect, not cost Man United anything.
However I already know what your answer would be.
No, I'll explain what happened so that everybody will understand.
We did a couple of deals that meant we effectively swopped one not very good striker for another not very good striker but we also made £15m profit at the same time.
Now I'll admit that it would've been even better if the incoming player had turned out a lot better, but there was reason at the time to think he might be a good signing. You win some you lose some but at the same time we signed Suarez so King Kenny did well for us on the whole.
So the Torres/Carroll deal = £15m profit for LFC.
But the Fellaini deal = £27m flushed down the pan for MUFC.
You might not like hearing it but it's the truth. :cool:
Best
Gareth Barry for Everton - Underrated player who has been great for Everton this season.
Curtis Davies for Hull City - Has become one of the best defenders in the league
Loic Remy for Newcastle - Him, Krul Cabaye are the main reason they avoided a relegation scrap, excellent season.
Dejan Lovren for Southampton - Thought he was a shocking signing at first but proved in fact to be a steal for them.
Christian Eriksen for Tottenham - Made a slow start but now looks like Spurs' best player and they got him very cheap as well. The only saving grace from a diabolical summer transfer window.
Worst
Jozy Altidore for Sunderland - Sunderland continue their run of signing terrible strikers for relatively big money. £8 M for two goals and now has 3 goals in 44 appearances in English football.
Ricky Van Wolfswinkel for Norwich - Record signing who has had a complete nightmare in his first season. Not helped by negative tactics but looks really out of his depth.
Erik Lamela for Tottenham - Really struggled to adapt to the English game and now can't even get a game.
Marouane Fellaini for Man Utd - Cannot find a role in the United team and looks like he's lost all confidence.
Andreas Cornelious for Cardiff - Same as the OP.
Best
Gareth Barry for Everton - Underrated player who has been great for Everton this season.
Curtis Davies for Hull City - Has become one of the best defenders in the league
Loic Remy for Newcastle - Him, Krul Cabaye are the main reason they avoided a relegation scrap, excellent season.
Dejan Lovren for Southampton - Thought he was a shocking signing at first but proved in fact to be a steal for them.
Christian Eriksen for Tottenham - Made a slow start but now looks like Spurs' best player and they got him very cheap as well. The only saving grace from a diabolical summer transfer window.
Worst
Jozy Altidore for Sunderland - Sunderland continue their run of signing terrible strikers for relatively big money. £8 M for two goals and now has 3 goals in 44 appearances in English football.
Ricky Van Wolfswinkel for Norwich - Record signing who has had a complete nightmare in his first season. Not helped by negative tactics but looks really out of his depth.
Erik Lamela for Tottenham - Really struggled to adapt to the English game and now can't even get a game.
Marouane Fellaini for Man Utd - Cannot find a role in the United team and looks like he's lost all confidence.
Andreas Cornelious for Cardiff - Same as the OP.
Thinking about it, Andreas Cornelius must be the biggest flop of all. Cardiff spent a lot of money and I must confess, I have been totally unaware of him. That must say something.
No, I'll explain what happened so that everybody will understand.
We did a couple of deals that meant we effectively swopped one not very good striker for another not very good striker but we also made £15m profit at the same time.
Now I'll admit that it would've been even better if the incoming player had turned out a lot better, but there was reason at the time to think he might be a good signing. You win some you lose some but at the same time we signed Suarez so King Kenny did well for us on the whole.
So the Torres/Carroll deal = £15m profit for LFC.
But the Fellaini deal = £27m flushed down the pan for MUFC.
You might not like hearing it but it's the truth. :cool:
No you didnt.
You received £50m for one striker and completely wasted £35m on his replacement. The sale of Torres was not dependant on buying Carroll you you didnt swap anything. You sold a player and then went to another club and gave them a large chunk of that money for another player. When you then realised it was a massive massive mistake you try to cover it up by claiming it doesnt matter cos you received the initial £50m in the first place. You had a free choice with what to buy with the £50m in your bank account and your club decided Andy Carroll for £35m was the way to go.
By your logic you could have given Kevin Keegan £50m to come out of retirement to play for you and claimed it was ok cos it didnt actually cost you anything as you had got the money for Torres, which is of course nonsense.
You received £50m for one striker and completely wasted £35m on his replacement. The sale of Torres was not dependant on buying Carroll you you didnt swap anything. You sold a player and then went to another club and gave them a large chunk of that money for another player. When you then realised it was a massive massive mistake you try to cover it up by claiming it doesnt matter cos you received the initial £50m in the first place. You had a free choice with what to buy with the £50m in your bank account and your club decided Andy Carroll for £35m was the way to go.
By your logic you could have given Kevin Keegan £50m to come out of retirement to play for you and claimed it was ok cos it didnt actually cost you anything as you had got the money for Torres, which is of course nonsense.
You might not like hearing it but its the truth.
It was effectively just one big deal though because it all happened suddenly and when Torres left there was minimal time left to replace him. There wasn't time to find someone cheaper/better in the time that was left and so we didn't really have a choice.
May I remind you that during the same transfer window we signed a certain Luis Suarez for £22m. :kitty:
LFC fan to MUFC fan :- Moyes is rubbish, Fellaini was a waste of money, we will finish above you this season
MUFC fan back to LFC fan :- Carroll was a joke at 35m, KDs deals wasted money, we've won the league 20 times.
Such 'discussion' tends to deliberately wind the other side up and only causes ill feeling between the 2 sets of fans so tbh KK mate it is not worth going there.
I know I too fall out with the MUFC fans at times but usually it is not slap stick sort of stuff like this and my advice for what its worth is where possible to avoid it.
Trying to be objective Downing was great for AVFC and Fellaini was great for EFC and so those signings were understandable even if they did not work out that well - hindsight is a wonderful thing, we can all be experts after the event.
Trying to be objective Downing was great for AVFC and Fellaini was great for EFC and so those signings were understandable even if they did not work out that well - hindsight is a wonderful thing, we can all be experts after the event.
Of course, but then KennyKeegan was the one trying to bait the Man United fans.
Trying to be objective Downing was great for AVFC and Fellaini was great for EFC and so those signings were understandable even if they did not work out that well - hindsight is a wonderful thing, we can all be experts after the event.
In the case of Carroll people were wise before during and after the event, with vast swathes of Liverpool fans struggling to come to terms with the deal.
Its fine, its done, and Liverpool got rid and certainly havent suffered for it going on this seasons showing thats for sure so its best written off as a horribly expensive error.
However when you get people claiming that the price paid for Carroll "didnt really matter" on the basis that you received more money in for Torres at the time then it cant be left unchallenged because it is one of the most genuinely bafflingly stupid points of view anyone can take.
However when you get people claiming that the price paid for Carroll "didnt really matter" on the basis that you received more money in for Torres at the time then it cant be left unchallenged because it is one of the most genuinely bafflingly stupid points of view anyone can take.
I seem to remember taking that line of defence at the time, when you took me to task on it.
However when you get people claiming that the price paid for Carroll "didnt really matter" on the basis that you received more money in for Torres at the time then it cant be left unchallenged because it is one of the most genuinely bafflingly stupid points of view anyone can take.
I remember hearing some of the daftest things imaginable around that transfer.
The Torres money made the Carroll money disposable somehow...
The true value of a player was 'whatever someone was willing to pay'...
In the case of Carroll people were wise before during and after the event, with vast swathes of Liverpool fans struggling to come to terms with the deal.
Its fine, its done, and Liverpool got rid and certainly havent suffered for it going on this seasons showing thats for sure so its best written off as a horribly expensive error.
However when you get people claiming that the price paid for Carroll "didnt really matter" on the basis that you received more money in for Torres at the time then it cant be left unchallenged because it is one of the most genuinely bafflingly stupid points of view anyone can take.
It's like watching a gust of wind take away your tenner and then finding a quid afterwards on the pavement.
A kick in the chuns whichever way you want to spin it.
In the case of Carroll people were wise before during and after the event, with vast swathes of Liverpool fans struggling to come to terms with the deal.
Its fine, its done, and Liverpool got rid and certainly havent suffered for it going on this seasons showing thats for sure so its best written off as a horribly expensive error.
However when you get people claiming that the price paid for Carroll "didnt really matter" on the basis that you received more money in for Torres at the time then it cant be left unchallenged because it is one of the most genuinely bafflingly stupid points of view anyone can take.
You're quite right of course - the AC deal was one of our worst ever cos not having CFCs level of wealth we could ill afford to waste 35m and at least most of the other buys which have proved bad maybe looked OK at the time. Re the AC one at that price I did not really fancy it on day 1 - altho in public on DS and elsewhere I always tried to support AC especially in the early days as it was not his fault that they paid that much and if fans go round knocking a player there is less chance of him coming good - so I tried to not do that.
Comments
Indeed, its similar to spurs fans not seeing the absolute disaster the signings of AVB are.
Yes, it was a "free" 90 million, but for that you lost a fantastic game winning player and paid huge money (and wages) on players that just are never going to be good enough.
Over their contracts, they will cost the club another 100million
EDIT: What's the point.
A damning indictment of what this board has been allowed to descend to.
not sure all of them were AVB signings and also not convinced all of them are duds
still a good team built there, heck they might equal last seasons positional finish so it hasnt been a horrendus waste of money
So if Liverpool paid £49m on Andy Carroll, it wouldn't have been a bad signing because we sold Torres for £50m?
If Man United sold Anderson, and for £30m, then paid £27m for Fellaini, would that still be a stupid signing? Fellaini would, in effect, not cost Man United anything.
However I already know what your answer would be.
No, I'll explain what happened so that everybody will understand.
We did a couple of deals that meant we effectively swopped one not very good striker for another not very good striker but we also made £15m profit at the same time.
Now I'll admit that it would've been even better if the incoming player had turned out a lot better, but there was reason at the time to think he might be a good signing. You win some you lose some but at the same time we signed Suarez so King Kenny did well for us on the whole.
So the Torres/Carroll deal = £15m profit for LFC.
But the Fellaini deal = £27m flushed down the pan for MUFC.
You might not like hearing it but it's the truth. :cool:
Gareth Barry for Everton - Underrated player who has been great for Everton this season.
Curtis Davies for Hull City - Has become one of the best defenders in the league
Loic Remy for Newcastle - Him, Krul Cabaye are the main reason they avoided a relegation scrap, excellent season.
Dejan Lovren for Southampton - Thought he was a shocking signing at first but proved in fact to be a steal for them.
Christian Eriksen for Tottenham - Made a slow start but now looks like Spurs' best player and they got him very cheap as well. The only saving grace from a diabolical summer transfer window.
Worst
Jozy Altidore for Sunderland - Sunderland continue their run of signing terrible strikers for relatively big money. £8 M for two goals and now has 3 goals in 44 appearances in English football.
Ricky Van Wolfswinkel for Norwich - Record signing who has had a complete nightmare in his first season. Not helped by negative tactics but looks really out of his depth.
Erik Lamela for Tottenham - Really struggled to adapt to the English game and now can't even get a game.
Marouane Fellaini for Man Utd - Cannot find a role in the United team and looks like he's lost all confidence.
Andreas Cornelious for Cardiff - Same as the OP.
Boring Boring Kenny ^_^
Thinking about it, Andreas Cornelius must be the biggest flop of all. Cardiff spent a lot of money and I must confess, I have been totally unaware of him. That must say something.
I think not!
No you didnt.
You received £50m for one striker and completely wasted £35m on his replacement. The sale of Torres was not dependant on buying Carroll you you didnt swap anything. You sold a player and then went to another club and gave them a large chunk of that money for another player. When you then realised it was a massive massive mistake you try to cover it up by claiming it doesnt matter cos you received the initial £50m in the first place. You had a free choice with what to buy with the £50m in your bank account and your club decided Andy Carroll for £35m was the way to go.
By your logic you could have given Kevin Keegan £50m to come out of retirement to play for you and claimed it was ok cos it didnt actually cost you anything as you had got the money for Torres, which is of course nonsense.
You might not like hearing it but its the truth.
It was effectively just one big deal though because it all happened suddenly and when Torres left there was minimal time left to replace him. There wasn't time to find someone cheaper/better in the time that was left and so we didn't really have a choice.
May I remind you that during the same transfer window we signed a certain Luis Suarez for £22m. :kitty:
Which has absolutely nothing to do with the point being discussed.
It's been like a crèche in here today, and the United game hasn't even started....
He's got a point though. You get some transfer decisions right - and some wrong.
No he hasn't got a point, it's a laugh him criticising United's transfer business, when we've signed the likes of Carroll, Downing, Aquilani et al..
MUFC fan back to LFC fan :- Carroll was a joke at 35m, KDs deals wasted money, we've won the league 20 times.
Such 'discussion' tends to deliberately wind the other side up and only causes ill feeling between the 2 sets of fans so tbh KK mate it is not worth going there.
I know I too fall out with the MUFC fans at times but usually it is not slap stick sort of stuff like this and my advice for what its worth is where possible to avoid it.
Of course, but then KennyKeegan was the one trying to bait the Man United fans.
In the case of Carroll people were wise before during and after the event, with vast swathes of Liverpool fans struggling to come to terms with the deal.
Its fine, its done, and Liverpool got rid and certainly havent suffered for it going on this seasons showing thats for sure so its best written off as a horribly expensive error.
However when you get people claiming that the price paid for Carroll "didnt really matter" on the basis that you received more money in for Torres at the time then it cant be left unchallenged because it is one of the most genuinely bafflingly stupid points of view anyone can take.
I seem to remember taking that line of defence at the time, when you took me to task on it
I remember hearing some of the daftest things imaginable around that transfer.
The Torres money made the Carroll money disposable somehow...
The true value of a player was 'whatever someone was willing to pay'...
Etc... Crazy period.
It's like watching a gust of wind take away your tenner and then finding a quid afterwards on the pavement.
A kick in the chuns whichever way you want to spin it.
You're quite right of course - the AC deal was one of our worst ever cos not having CFCs level of wealth we could ill afford to waste 35m and at least most of the other buys which have proved bad maybe looked OK at the time. Re the AC one at that price I did not really fancy it on day 1 - altho in public on DS and elsewhere I always tried to support AC especially in the early days as it was not his fault that they paid that much and if fans go round knocking a player there is less chance of him coming good - so I tried to not do that.