Well O2 have certainly been quietly adding 3G coverage in the 900MHz band in recent months to some places that didn't have any 3G from O2 before. I don't know how much work Vodafone have done on expanding 3G themselves.
The problem is though that for 4G, while EE and 3 already have 1800MHz spectrum which the former is already using and the latter will be able to use later this year, Vodafone and O2 don't know for certain what bands will be available to them in the outcome of the 800/2600MHz auction. Although it would seem unfathomable, there's no certainty they'll even win any spectrum and end up being reliant on their current 900/1800/2100MHz spectrum which could end up being a problem of trying to fit three technologies into their allocated spectrum. Until they're certain what they've got, it would perhaps be unwise for them to commit to certain equipment orders in case they make a potentially expensive mistake.
What is possible however is that O2 and Voda have at some sites been adding or replacing equipment in the cabinets that are LTE(A) ready, with potentially only the aerials (both cellular and microwave backhaul) needing to be upgraded afterwards.
That is a very good point. But putting O2 aside for a moment with Telefonica's current financial woes, Vodafone probably have the deepest pockets and could (like last time) outbid everyone. The chances of them not getting some 800Mhz I would have thought is virtually nil.
I would like to see at least one of the two oldest networks start to really compete with Three/EE. I'm just afraid that it'll be same old same old. Apart from Three who got theirs by default, Vodafone got the biggest chunk of 3G spectrum, yet have the second worst level of geographical coverage.
Feel free to sound smart I think I misunderstood you. I thought you meant 1800/2100 from the same physical antenna. My bad.
If that is the case with O2 then I'm confused as well. Perhaps someone else knows.
On the MBNL 3G antennas, I have fairly reliable confirmation that they are being replaced like for like. There may be some slight improvement but sensitivity is pretty much the same and power levels will be the same.
With the 2G/LTE antennas the estimate is around a 35% increase in sensitivity and power levels will be around 3-4db higher.
I know your source is reliable but just a comment - about 99.9% of the planning apps over here state how they are replacing 3No./6No. DBPP antenna with 3No./6No. DBDP antenna, so that would suggest not exactly like for like. I have no idea whatsoever what the difference is in those antenna but there must be some sort of difference or they wouldn't swop them and they wouldn't have different names...
Dual Band Dual Polarity. Read Redcoat's post #101 above.
What I want to know is are any of these antennas capable of 700-800Mhz? Is it possible to have a single antenna that can do 1800 and 800 or would 800 need a completely separate antenna?
Of the 2G refresh planning permissions I've seen where they have named the type of antenna they are listed as 1800 antennas. However as stated they could bolt on 800 MHz antennas at the bigger sites (seeing it propagates a wee bit better). It is doubtful any of the networks have commissioned 800 works as of yet. If I were a network head, I certainly wouldn't be either maybe in one or two key busy places just maybe ie Central London but bit of a risk at this stage even to start sending out planning apps. EE is in full 1800 ahead attack mode..
And they're probably being conservative with the 98% LTE coverage thing as well. If it covers as well as 2G as you say it does and they LTE all the cells it'll be more like 99%. Especially taking into account the new antennas.
Yes EE uses antenna that is 2G 1800 and LTE 1800. For different frequencies it will require different antenna within/on the same shroud / mast.
I'm yet to see any planning permissions suggesting a tri/quad or more band single antenna being used by ANY of the Networks. I'm not sure if there is a single antenna that does the following (800,1800, 2600) LTE + (900, 1800) GPRS + (900, 2100) UTMS....
Thanks for that. That explains a lot. The DBDP is what is increasing the sensitivity. The whole network is going to be running some 3-4db higher power too. So this now explains that as well.
I see Clevedon and Weston-Super-Mare now has LTE!!
They'll come down the M5/A38 and do Exeter and Plymouth next. That's what happened with the Orange rollout in 1995/96. They seem to be following the same pattern.
It's moving ever close to me
I know, all off a sudden in lower midlands, last weekend I discovered Wythall came online, and then this monday a lart lump of SHirley/Monkspath fired up.
Then Tuesday, Tardebigge( between bromsgrove/redditch) came on. Dont know where the site is for that, dont know of one for 2g/3g round there anyway. was a dead spot.
I know. Can't wait to see what I get at home.
Currently my iPhone will pull in 1 bar 3G in an upstairs window with about 700Kbps to 1.5Mbps download depending on the weather.
2G is normally 2-3 bars so I'm hoping LTE will be 3 bars too.
The fastest speeds available at home are 1.7Mbps ADSL2+. It will be rather good to have 10-20Mbps available via another route.
I'm thinking of having the ADSL for basic home use and getting an LTE MiFi bridged to a WiFi access point feeding into my Ethernet network in my Office for large updates and downloads on my customer's computers.
I have this set up already with a Three MiFi in case my ADSL goes down. Works a treat.
Not a very reliable source then. You would have to be pretty stupid to install millions of pounds worth of kit before you knew you were going to get a decent amount of spectrum.
I don't think EE had much kit installed before they knew they could use 1800 for LTE.
This is why they aren't now just "flicking a switch". They are upgrading as they go. Getting to a cell, ripping out the old cabs, installing the new ones, raplacing the antennas and then switching it on.
The reason it's so savage (I like that word:)) is because the network is already tuned for 2G, and LTE mirrors the 2G coverage pretty much. It's the same frequency so theres not much to do other than to turn it on.
800 and 2600 Mhz would probably require more planning of coverage I'm guessing.
Not a very reliable source then. You would have to be pretty stupid to install millions of pounds worth of kit before you knew you were going to get a decent amount of spectrum.
I don't think EE had much kit installed before they knew they could use 1800 for LTE.
This is why they aren't now just "flicking a switch". They are upgrading as they go. Getting to a cell, ripping out the old cabs, installing the new ones, raplacing the antennas and then switching it on.
The reason it's so savage (I like that word:)) is because the network is already tuned for 2G, and LTE mirrors the 2G coverage pretty much. It's the same frequency so theres not much to do other than to turn it on.
800 and 2600 Mhz would probably require more planning of coverage I'm guessing.
Is there any "signs" that a mast is about to be LTE'd? For example at home i've always got around 3-4Meg download on H+, but the past few days i've consistently been getting 10-11Meg, could this be the local mast has had the fibre backhaul upgraded ready for LTE activation?
Not a very reliable source then. You would have to be pretty stupid to install millions of pounds worth of kit before you knew you were going to get a decent amount of spectrum.
I don't think EE had much kit installed before they knew they could use 1800 for LTE.
This is why they aren't now just "flicking a switch". They are upgrading as they go. Getting to a cell, ripping out the old cabs, installing the new ones, raplacing the antennas and then switching it on.
The reason it's so savage (I like that word:)) is because the network is already tuned for 2G, and LTE mirrors the 2G coverage pretty much. It's the same frequency so theres not much to do other than to turn it on.
800 and 2600 Mhz would probably require more planning of coverage I'm guessing.
I guess there's no reason why 3 can't be adding 1800 lte kit as they have known for a few months now that they are going to get that spectrum having purchased it from EE.
I guess there's no reason why 3 can't be adding 1800 lte kit as they have known for a few months now that they are going to get that spectrum having purchased it from EE.
That's exactly what Three said publicly. Now they have guaranteed LTE spectrum (the 1800Mhz they bought from EE) they have already started the upgrade and signed the deals for the base stations months ago. It'll be in full flow ready to turn on in September, earlier if they get more spectrum in the auction.
Agreed! This is different to O2/VOD in that Three know they have the spectrum and when they are allowed to turn it on. They will certainly be installing kit as we speak. Could be interesting come September.
Comments
That is a very good point. But putting O2 aside for a moment with Telefonica's current financial woes, Vodafone probably have the deepest pockets and could (like last time) outbid everyone. The chances of them not getting some 800Mhz I would have thought is virtually nil.
I would like to see at least one of the two oldest networks start to really compete with Three/EE. I'm just afraid that it'll be same old same old. Apart from Three who got theirs by default, Vodafone got the biggest chunk of 3G spectrum, yet have the second worst level of geographical coverage.
I know your source is reliable but just a comment - about 99.9% of the planning apps over here state how they are replacing 3No./6No. DBPP antenna with 3No./6No. DBDP antenna, so that would suggest not exactly like for like. I have no idea whatsoever what the difference is in those antenna but there must be some sort of difference or they wouldn't swop them and they wouldn't have different names...
What I want to know is are any of these antennas capable of 700-800Mhz? Is it possible to have a single antenna that can do 1800 and 800 or would 800 need a completely separate antenna?
I'm yet to see any planning permissions suggesting a tri/quad or more band single antenna being used by ANY of the Networks. I'm not sure if there is a single antenna that does the following (800,1800, 2600) LTE + (900, 1800) GPRS + (900, 2100) UTMS....
They'll come down the M5/A38 and do Exeter and Plymouth next. That's what happened with the Orange rollout in 1995/96. They seem to be following the same pattern.
It's moving ever close to me
This rollout is mental!
I know, all off a sudden in lower midlands, last weekend I discovered Wythall came online, and then this monday a lart lump of SHirley/Monkspath fired up.
Then Tuesday, Tardebigge( between bromsgrove/redditch) came on. Dont know where the site is for that, dont know of one for 2g/3g round there anyway. was a dead spot.
Devon sounds like it will be down your way soon
Currently my iPhone will pull in 1 bar 3G in an upstairs window with about 700Kbps to 1.5Mbps download depending on the weather.
2G is normally 2-3 bars so I'm hoping LTE will be 3 bars too.
The fastest speeds available at home are 1.7Mbps ADSL2+. It will be rather good to have 10-20Mbps available via another route.
I'm thinking of having the ADSL for basic home use and getting an LTE MiFi bridged to a WiFi access point feeding into my Ethernet network in my Office for large updates and downloads on my customer's computers.
I have this set up already with a Three MiFi in case my ADSL goes down. Works a treat.
Yeah, a lot of networks already have LTE enabled kit in place, theyre just waiting for the licenses so they can "flick the switch".
I read somwhere that O2 have been putting LTE kit into all masts theyre carrying out routine maintenance on for quite some time now.
I hear this from a reliable source too..
Not a very reliable source then. You would have to be pretty stupid to install millions of pounds worth of kit before you knew you were going to get a decent amount of spectrum.
I don't think EE had much kit installed before they knew they could use 1800 for LTE.
This is why they aren't now just "flicking a switch". They are upgrading as they go. Getting to a cell, ripping out the old cabs, installing the new ones, raplacing the antennas and then switching it on.
The reason it's so savage (I like that word:)) is because the network is already tuned for 2G, and LTE mirrors the 2G coverage pretty much. It's the same frequency so theres not much to do other than to turn it on.
800 and 2600 Mhz would probably require more planning of coverage I'm guessing.
Only time will tell!
I guess there's no reason why 3 can't be adding 1800 lte kit as they have known for a few months now that they are going to get that spectrum having purchased it from EE.
That's exactly what Three said publicly. Now they have guaranteed LTE spectrum (the 1800Mhz they bought from EE) they have already started the upgrade and signed the deals for the base stations months ago. It'll be in full flow ready to turn on in September, earlier if they get more spectrum in the auction.