A shame we'll never get another zombie killing contest between Darryl and Martinez. Also based on next weeks promo if the prison comes under attack then I doubt there'll be any time to see Darryl's reaction to Carol's exile.
On a separate note I think that if the governor really did want the best for megan and the family he'd drop them to the prison and exile himself since as far as he knows the prison group are well stocked and would look after the kid even if they'd never accept the governor himself
It's all go now for the mid-season finale! It seems the writers spent an episode letting us wonder whether The Governor could be redeemed to then spend the next episode showing us that he cannot!
His hunger for revenge seems to be dissipated now. That's partly what this episode was about, to show that. Now he's protecting the new little girl. He's burned Woodbury and I doubt he cares about Michonne any more.
I'm not sure he ever had a hunger for power. He ended up in charge of Woodbury and did what he had to protect it. Remember how Rick would kill anyone who looked like a threat? How he tortured that boy, and would kill him rather than let him go? How he accepted Michonne into the community, and then was all set to sell her out? People do what they have to do to survive, else they don't survive. The Governor's acts look worse because he was operating on a larger scale, because he had a bigger community to protect than Rick. He only became mad for revenge after Michonne killed his daughter.
I'm not saying the Governor is redeemable or that he's safe to be around or that's he's identical to Rick. However, I am seeing him as a more nuanced character than he gets credit for. That didn't start in this episode but this episode continued it. I did not expect him to turn on that family, for instance. Nor is he "hungry for power". He is like Rick in that he (sometimes) thinks that he is the best person to run things (and sometimes backs away from it). I expect his rise in Woodbury was similar to what we saw in this episode: others demanding he take charge.
I still believe he has that hunger for revenge. He takes power because deep down, he's a murderous dictatorial psychopath.
The comparisons with Rick are interesting, because I see him as what Rick could have possibly become.
A shame to lose Martinez, and that has nothing to do with the fact that I found him ridiculously attractive. Okay, maybe a little bit. :cool:
So excited for next week!
I'm really quite nervous, as speculation that I read on another forum, based on comic events, suggests that Hershel might get beheaded by The Governor. :eek::(
Apparently, that happens to Tyreese in the comics, outside of the prison gates. In the show next week, we have the Gov outside the gates, and possible access to Michonne's katana. Though, I also read that the Gov shoots Hershel in the comics, so I guess it could happen that way too. I can't see Michonne biting it just yet, so it can't end well for poor Hershel.
*Only speculation, but based on certain comics events so I've spoilered it.
I agree with what you said about Hershel. However, just because
both Tyreese and Hershel died in the comics does not mean both will in the show. They're pretty much completely different now. The comic is just a basic outline for the show. Andrea is still alive in the comics, yet died very early in the show (same with Sophia). Also, Michonne is going no where for a while.
Gutted that Joe Toye and Victor out of 'Dollhouse' won't be hanging around. Enver Gjokaj is a damn fine actor.
I like that The Governor hasn't changed that much. In fact, he's got more to lose now he's invested in his new 'family', and that will make him even more ruthless, IMHO.
Excluding the Gov, you'd think a bunch of survivors would look to join with such a fortified location rather than attack it and risk their own necks.
The Gov's big plan is to attack the prison, with or without a tank (cause you know, blowing holes in a secure location is a brilliant idea). Needless to say, if both groups are likely to lose people, where is the sense in it?
I don't know about this new family surviving, but you can bet they'll find out about Brian's past soon enough.
I'm really quite nervous, as speculation that I read on another forum, based on comic events, suggests that Hershel might get beheaded by The Governor. :eek::(
Apparently, that happens to Tyreese in the comics, outside of the prison gates. In the show next week, we have the Gov outside the gates, and possible access to Michonne's katana. Though, I also read that the Gov shoots Hershel in the comics, so I guess it could happen that way too. I can't see Michonne biting it just yet, so it can't end well for poor Hershel.
*Only speculation, but based on certain comics events so I've spoilered it.
I hope you're wrong. I don't want him gone just yet.
I was wrong to fear when the Governor showed up again - these two episodes have done a great job of turning a one-note cartoon into a genuine villain with real, understandable motivations that make him an interesting threat.
I wish they'd let Enver Gjokaj survive the episode, though. Guy deserves his own show.
What's with the love for Enver Gjokaj? I'm guessing it's a girl thing
I had the same thing with Charlie from Fringe as I did with the Governors new woman...Yes! The Unit. That's where i've seen her before...Can't stand Charlie's voice. Sounds so much like he's straining for a poo.
Herhsal is going to be offed, for sure. After such a big Hershal episode recently, making him out to be a badass. He's got to go...
What's with the love for Enver Gjokaj? I'm guessing it's a girl thing
I had the same thing with Charlie from Fringe as I did with the Governors new woman...Yes! The Unit. That's where i've seen her before...Can't stand Charlie's voice. Sounds so much like he's straining for a poo.
Herhsal is going to be offed, for sure. After such a big Hershal episode recently, making him out to be a badass. He's got to go...
Not a girl thing, Gjokaj was fantastic on Dollhouse despite having to play vastly different roles episode to episode. By far the best thing about the show. It's a travesty he only seems to get one episode guest spots these days.
I'd be gutted to lose Herschel next week, but I think he makes the most sense to go. Also hope it'll be the end of the Governor, despite quite enjoying the last two episodes.
Do you think they gave the main cast a couple of weeks holiday whilst filming the last couple of episodes? Or do you think it was just a second unit off elsewhere?
Next week sure is going to be interesting, from the small teaser we saw at the end of this week's episode.
It seems that 'Brian' has found a group of people, yet again, who can't think for themselves - or don't want to have to think for themselves - and are prepared to attack the prison group on his say-so and motivated by his twisted sense of vengeance (and his obvious need to be in control), but I guess we will just have to wait and see.
All of that happened (a) after Michonne murdered his daughter and blinded him in one eye; and (b) after they betrayed him. Up until Michonne, he was fine. She caused him to have a psychotic breakdown.
For comparison, when Lori died Rick went on a rampage, albeit he only had zombies to kill. Later he had hallucinations, and then he withdraw from the council, stopped making decisions and became a farmer. The analogy with the Governor's aimless wandering is clear. When Tyreese's girlfriend died, he also went a bit mad and tried to kill Rick, and then later had a mad zombie-killing spree. The Governor was on a larger scale and had nobody to stop him.
His hunger for revenge seems to be dissipated now. That's partly what this episode was about, to show that. Now he's protecting the new little girl. He's burned Woodbury and I doubt he cares about Michonne any more.
I'm not sure he ever had a hunger for power. He ended up in charge of Woodbury and did what he had to protect it. Remember how Rick would kill anyone who looked like a threat? How he tortured that boy, and would kill him rather than let him go? How he accepted Michonne into the community, and then was all set to sell her out? People do what they have to do to survive, else they don't survive. The Governor's acts look worse because he was operating on a larger scale, because he had a bigger community to protect than Rick. He only became mad for revenge after Michonne killed his daughter.
I'm not saying the Governor is redeemable or that he's safe to be around or that's he's identical to Rick. However, I am seeing him as a more nuanced character than he gets credit for. That didn't start in this episode but this episode continued it. I did not expect him to turn on that family, for instance. Nor is he "hungry for power". He is like Rick in that he (sometimes) thinks that he is the best person to run things (and sometimes backs away from it). I expect his rise in Woodbury was similar to what we saw in this episode: others demanding he take charge.
I hope not. I'd prefer a deeper, more nuanced character than an 1-dimensional over-the-top comic-book bad guy.
I'd say that the events of this week's episode negate a lot of your post The Governor has shown that he is not a team player, does not want to share in leadership, preferring to be the one in 'power', and using any means to achieve that.
It's obvious that revenge against Michonne, and the prison group in general, is the driving force behind most of what he does, along with having a 'family, somebody to care for in his twisted way, to give him the incentive for his more extreme actions - protecting them being a a justification (in his head) for what he does.
I do agree that this week's episode was probably a reflection of how he rose to the role of dictator in Woodbury.
I don't think we'll lose too many main cast this episode. They still have 8 episodes left after it. After season 3, they obviously learned from their mistakes (killing four characters from season 1 in one season), and even Robert Kirkman said they wouldn't kill that many off this time around. I think next episode we'll lose
Hershel and the Gov, and redshirts.
I don't even think that Judith will die next episode.
Do you think they gave the main cast a couple of weeks holiday whilst filming the last couple of episodes? Or do you think it was just a second unit off elsewhere?
The actor that played Martinez said on Talking Dead, that the normal cast weren't there, and were at Comic-con.
Trailer and comic
Well the trailer is showing the Governor speechifying, making out the Prison people to be bad guys, so you can't think he'll be beheading people in front of them. After all he killed Martinez so the newbies wouldn't find out what he'd got up to in the past, but then again this is the Governor, and he's not always sane. You could definitely see Tyrese dying in one way or another though, he's become a loose canon, and with Abraham coming in soon, another alpha-man may not be needed. Herschell perhaps too. Oh and yes the Governor has to die, he's a great baddie, and they've giving him a good arc, but there's really no-where else to go with him. Fascinating how they've bastardised bits of the Governor books, into the plot even the odd Brian/Philip thing. I do like it, gives you shades of it, but without quite knowing what is coming next
Power is a funny thing. I can safely say that I have no desire for it. Most people don't. Unfortunately that is exactly why we see people like ghengis khan,Hitler and Stalin. It is also why we see intelligent people following them no matter what they do. Rick asked the group recently whether any of them wanted to be leader.
As to the Gov he lost his sanity long before he met Michonne. Cutting off people's heads and storing them is not what I would call sane. Plus he couldn't see that his daughter had gone and that no one would want to exist as a rabid animal
In that lab the scientist watched his wife turn then immediately put a bullet in her head:that is what a compassionate loving person would do.
Power is a funny thing. I can safely say that I have no desire for it. Most people don't. Unfortunately that is exactly why we see people like ghengis khan,Hitler and Stalin. It is also why we see intelligent people following them no matter what they do. Rick asked the group recently whether any of them wanted to be leader.
As to the Gov he lost his sanity long before he met Michonne. Cutting off people's heads and storing them is not what I would call sane. Plus he couldn't see that his daughter had gone and that no one would want to exist as a rabid animal
In that lab the scientist watched his wife turn then immediately put a bullet in her head:that is what a compassionate loving person would do.
The scientist wasn't sane though.. He killed himself and nearly took everyone with him.
Have to say I think the Walking Dead is becomming a little stale.
Yet again we seem to be repeating the same old storyline, Govenor rouses a group of people, Govenor goes after Ricks group.
I still cant fathom why everyone loves living in tents, caravans and in open spaces! I would be looking for a secure location with walls!
Why is there such a lack of food? There appears to be so few survivors you would think there would be plenty of food and water to go around! Hell why not go find a food distribution center and camp out there!
Where are all the wild domesticated animals? Surely by now we would be seeing a fair few packs of dogs chasing down both walker and human!
It seems to me the walking dead has become comfortable and cant move on with reality.
On a side note, who is this other group who killed that other group camping in the woods, and thats 3 camps that were close to the prison but never really found each other?
On a side note, who is this other group who killed that other group camping in the woods, and thats 3 camps that were close to the prison but never really found each other?
I was under the impression that was Brians doing.
The three of them were hunting for food, it's unlikely they'd have stuck together all of the time. Brian could have easily walked out to the other camp and killed them all.
Have to say I think the Walking Dead is becomming a little stale.
Yet again we seem to be repeating the same old storyline, Govenor rouses a group of people, Govenor goes after Ricks group.
I still cant fathom why everyone loves living in tents, caravans and in open spaces! I would be looking for a secure location with walls!
Why is there such a lack of food? There appears to be so few survivors you would think there would be plenty of food and water to go around! Hell why not go find a food distribution center and camp out there!
Where are all the wild domesticated animals? Surely by now we would be seeing a fair few packs of dogs chasing down both walker and human!
It seems to me the walking dead has become comfortable and cant move on with reality.
On a side note, who is this other group who killed that other group camping in the woods, and thats 3 camps that were close to the prison but never really found each other?
Well, as we found out early with the horse, Walkers eat animals, which is probably what sustains them, as there are so few humans around.
The three of them were hunting for food, it's unlikely they'd have stuck together all of the time. Brian could have easily walked out to the other camp and killed them all.
I'm not so sure it was him. All the supplies had been taken and surely he would have kept the supplies there so his group could just take them.
Have to say I think the Walking Dead is becomming a little stale.
Yet again we seem to be repeating the same old storyline, Govenor rouses a group of people, Govenor goes after Ricks group.
I'm with you. The way things are looking the first half of this season may as well not have happened. We're basically at the point we were at last season prior to the finale.
I just hope we see some major game changers next week as my interest is on the wane.
I just had a thought. Do you think Carol could end up at the sanctuary from the radio broadcast? ("Those who arrive survive"). She has a car, she may pick up the broadcast.
Also, another thought on that, based on comic information:
Could the sanctuary be linked to the Saviors? I haven't read the comics but I read online that their base is called The Sanctuary.
If the Gov dies in the upcoming battle, the stage could be set for them to become the new antagonists.
Comments
On a separate note I think that if the governor really did want the best for megan and the family he'd drop them to the prison and exile himself since as far as he knows the prison group are well stocked and would look after the kid even if they'd never accept the governor himself
I still believe he has that hunger for revenge. He takes power because deep down, he's a murderous dictatorial psychopath.
The comparisons with Rick are interesting, because I see him as what Rick could have possibly become.
I agree with what you said about Hershel. However, just because
I like that The Governor hasn't changed that much. In fact, he's got more to lose now he's invested in his new 'family', and that will make him even more ruthless, IMHO.
People are going to die. Just who!?
In the comics there are more people around than they have now.
These people die as far as I remember:
Weve also still got Dale, Sophia and Andrea alive at this point
The Gov's big plan is to attack the prison, with or without a tank (cause you know, blowing holes in a secure location is a brilliant idea). Needless to say, if both groups are likely to lose people, where is the sense in it?
I don't know about this new family surviving, but you can bet they'll find out about Brian's past soon enough.
I hope you're wrong. I don't want him gone just yet.
I wish they'd let Enver Gjokaj survive the episode, though. Guy deserves his own show.
Yeah. He's a very good actor.. Thats this and Dexter he's been very very underused. Why is he not getting anything bigger or longer?
(Unless he's just choosing short guest stints as a choice)
At least Charlie from Fringe survived more than one episode.
I had the same thing with Charlie from Fringe as I did with the Governors new woman...Yes! The Unit. That's where i've seen her before...Can't stand Charlie's voice. Sounds so much like he's straining for a poo.
Herhsal is going to be offed, for sure. After such a big Hershal episode recently, making him out to be a badass. He's got to go...
Not a girl thing, Gjokaj was fantastic on Dollhouse despite having to play vastly different roles episode to episode. By far the best thing about the show. It's a travesty he only seems to get one episode guest spots these days.
I'd be gutted to lose Herschel next week, but I think he makes the most sense to go. Also hope it'll be the end of the Governor, despite quite enjoying the last two episodes.
It seems that 'Brian' has found a group of people, yet again, who can't think for themselves - or don't want to have to think for themselves - and are prepared to attack the prison group on his say-so and motivated by his twisted sense of vengeance (and his obvious need to be in control), but I guess we will just have to wait and see.
It's obvious that revenge against Michonne, and the prison group in general, is the driving force behind most of what he does, along with having a 'family, somebody to care for in his twisted way, to give him the incentive for his more extreme actions - protecting them being a a justification (in his head) for what he does.
I do agree that this week's episode was probably a reflection of how he rose to the role of dictator in Woodbury.
I don't even think that Judith will die next episode.
The actor that played Martinez said on Talking Dead, that the normal cast weren't there, and were at Comic-con.
Trailer and comic
As to the Gov he lost his sanity long before he met Michonne. Cutting off people's heads and storing them is not what I would call sane. Plus he couldn't see that his daughter had gone and that no one would want to exist as a rabid animal
In that lab the scientist watched his wife turn then immediately put a bullet in her head:that is what a compassionate loving person would do.
The scientist wasn't sane though.. He killed himself and nearly took everyone with him.
Yet again we seem to be repeating the same old storyline, Govenor rouses a group of people, Govenor goes after Ricks group.
I still cant fathom why everyone loves living in tents, caravans and in open spaces! I would be looking for a secure location with walls!
Why is there such a lack of food? There appears to be so few survivors you would think there would be plenty of food and water to go around! Hell why not go find a food distribution center and camp out there!
Where are all the wild domesticated animals? Surely by now we would be seeing a fair few packs of dogs chasing down both walker and human!
It seems to me the walking dead has become comfortable and cant move on with reality.
On a side note, who is this other group who killed that other group camping in the woods, and thats 3 camps that were close to the prison but never really found each other?
The three of them were hunting for food, it's unlikely they'd have stuck together all of the time. Brian could have easily walked out to the other camp and killed them all.
Well, as we found out early with the horse, Walkers eat animals, which is probably what sustains them, as there are so few humans around.
I'm not so sure it was him. All the supplies had been taken and surely he would have kept the supplies there so his group could just take them.
I'm with you. The way things are looking the first half of this season may as well not have happened. We're basically at the point we were at last season prior to the finale.
I just hope we see some major game changers next week as my interest is on the wane.
Also, another thought on that, based on comic information:
If the Gov dies in the upcoming battle, the stage could be set for them to become the new antagonists.