The amount of people on here that mustn't pay attention to what's happened in the show is amazing.
Someone a couple of pages ago said they hoped to see the guv as a zombie... He got shot in the face by Lilly.
That also means Lilly & Tara are obviously still alive.
It looks like Tyreese has Judith. I'm betting Judith is injured. Tyreese finds a group of survivors who save her & also have Carol in their ranks. Carol & Tyreese become good friends then down the line he finds out Carol was the one who killed his girlfriend.
I knew the tv series wouldn't be as brave as the comics and kill Judith..
Kinda random, in the grand scheme of things, but I can't help wondering...
Unless I'm mistaken, in the TWD universe the zombie infection is specific to humans and animals don't get reanimated, right?
Seems like here we are, mid-season, and there's quite a few unanswered questions.
There was a girl (I forget her name) who was acting like the zombies could be "pets".
Seems like she might've been feeding the rats to the Z's because she had some sympathy for them or it might've been a calculated attempt at sabotage, by somebody, to get the zombies to damage the fence.
Conversely, the rat they found pinned to the board was clearly being used for some kind of experimentation or study.
But if animals don't get reanimated, it's not like somebody was experimenting on a zombie rat. They were just doing the same sort of thing that happens in school science labs, right?
I'm not sure whether they're actually going somewhere with all this stuff or whether it's just intended to show us that people's attitudes change fundamentally (the same girl who wanted to keep a Z as a pet put a bullet in 2 of the guv's crew without a 2nd thought) as their circumstances change.
I mean, Carl has been acting like a complete psycho for the best part of 2 seasons now and they haven't gone anywhere with that at all.
Are they just playing a "long game" with setting up plots or is it just a way of showing us how messed-up people can be and, of course, helping to make the audience rather uneasy too.
Seems like whenever Carl appears, you're never entirely sure if he's going to do something dodgy but he never seems to so they've certainly succeeded in making me uneasy about him.
I also thought Friday's episode was truly fantastic...!!!
That scene where The Governor was holding the samurai sword against Hershal's throat, and Rick was making his 'we can all live together' speech, there was a split second, where the camera slowly zoomed in to The Governor's face, I thought he was actually going to agree with Rick - but then as he muttered that word - 'Liar', and raised his sword - there was only gonna be one conclusion...!!!
:(
Can't wait til February.... To be honest, I've kinda enjoyed watching The Walking Dead on a Friday night -its gonna be weird watching it at the start of the week instead (when it returns)!
Caught up on the mid season finale yesterday. What an episode !!!.
So much going on, poor Hershall. I really wanted him to survive. What will they do now without a doctor ???
Thank god the Guv is finally dead...was surprised that Michonne left him alive...i thought for sure she would cut his head off in revenge for Hershall...
And the killer kids ??? I cheered when they saved Tyreese. Well done to Carol for training them all up lol.
Am disappointed that they all seem to have split, not sure how they are going to all find each other again.
Now the long wait till February
I'm not sure whether they're actually going somewhere with all this stuff or whether it's just intended to show us that people's attitudes change fundamentally (the same girl who wanted to keep a Z as a pet put a bullet in 2 of the guv's crew without a 2nd thought) as their circumstances change.
I mean, Carl has been acting like a complete psycho for the best part of 2 seasons now and they haven't gone anywhere with that at all.
Are they just playing a "long game" with setting up plots or is it just a way of showing us how messed-up people can be and, of course, helping to make the audience rather uneasy too.
Seems like whenever Carl appears, you're never entirely sure if he's going to do something dodgy but he never seems to so they've certainly succeeded in making me uneasy about him.
Fairly sure the girl is a psycho. I still think Carol took a fall for her.
Carl had got very trigger happy by the end of S3. I think that's why Rick went from rootin, rootin Rick to Farmer Rick by beginning of S4 (there's a clear implication of time having passed relatively peacefully). Think Carl was removed from guns and general Zombie killing duties. Overall, I'm not particularly unnerved by Carl. I think he just became a bit desensitised to it all. The young girl scares the hell out of me.
In my opinion there has been very little character development this season and those that appeared to give development to, the Governor and Herschel, are now dead, or in the case of Carol, absent and possibly never to return.
We had some in Rick, who became a farmer and then ended up making decisions again. We had some in the kids, who went from not being able to deal with their father to killing live people.
Seems like here we are, mid-season, and there's quite a few unanswered questions.
There was a girl (I forget her name) who was acting like the zombies could be "pets".
Seems like she might've been feeding the rats to the Z's because she had some sympathy for them or it might've been a calculated attempt at sabotage, by somebody, to get the zombies to damage the fence.
Conversely, the rat they found pinned to the board was clearly being used for some kind of experimentation or study.
But if animals don't get reanimated, it's not like somebody was experimenting on a zombie rat. They were just doing the same sort of thing that happens in school science labs, right?
Mutilating animals is an early sign of psychopathy. That's how Tyreese interpreted it. It's possible that the person who pinned up the one that was found, also tormented others and then fed them to zombies to destroy the evidence.
It's also possible that the contradiction you've observed could be resolved by it being two different people. Feeding the zombies would suggest an abundance of empathy. Lizzie is a strong candidate for that. Tormenting rats is the opposite, so that could be someone else. For example, Beth, who seems to be emotionally dead now. "We've all got jobs to do." Beth wasn't phased when her boyfriend Zach died. Or it might be the other way about. Beth has some history of feeding zombies (it's what they used to do at Herschel's farm), and Lizzie might have been practising on rats in at attempt to toughen herself up as Carol wanted. (Some of the dialogue between the younger sister, Mika, and Carol, about how Lizzie was tough, could mean Mika knew that Lizzie was torturing rats.)
At this point we can only speculate.
I mean, Carl has been acting like a complete psycho for the best part of 2 seasons now and they haven't gone anywhere with that at all.
They had Rick's reaction, which was to deny him weapons and generally attempt to teach him what he did was wrong and unacceptable. That's been going on for however long the gap between season 3 and 4 was. He seems to get it now. If Carl is better, maybe it worked. Personally I've always thought Carl did the right thing to shoot the youth who refused to lay down his weapon when told. He's been pretty cool for all of season 3 and 4 so far - eg the way he gave sanctuary to Tyreese' group without letting them harm his own people, was excellent. However, maybe the show disagrees with me. Perhaps Carl is in fact a psychopath who indulges his urges in secret on rats.
Did you have other examples of Carl being "a complete psycho for the best part of 2 seasons now"?
Are they just playing a "long game" with setting up plots or is it just a way of showing us how messed-up people can be and, of course, helping to make the audience rather uneasy too.
Well, season 4 had a new show-runner, Scott Gimple. I think he's the best we've had on the show. But arguably, he has spent much of his time dealing with the legacy left by the previous show-runners. Carl would be part of that legacy. The Governor is another part.
Frankly, the mid-season finale we just had should have been the season 3 finale. It would have made more sense then, and been more emotionally satisfying. The Governor even had an armoured vehicle he got from the National Guard - we know he brought it back to Woodbury, because we saw Michonne inspect its bullet holes. For some reason he didn't use it in his first assault against the prison. I forget what weaponry it had, but I'm sure it could at least have ridden down the fences and provide cover to following infantry. It would make sense for the Governor to trash the prison at that time, because he had the secure Woodbury to fall back on. Doing it now makes less sense because he'd have to repair those fences himself.
Anyway, I figure plot points raised in the current season, by the current show-runner, will be resolved in due course, and probably by season's end.
That scene where The Governor was holding the samurai sword against Hershal's throat, and Rick was making his 'we can all live together' speech, there was a split second, where the camera slowly zoomed in to The Governor's face, I thought he was actually going to agree with Rick -
Yeah, those two slow Governor-centric episodes made it seem almost possible.
Really enjoyed the episode, so much that I'll watch the repeat on Wednesday cos you can always spot something you didn't see first time around
So glad the Gov'nor got his, just a bit annoyed that he wasn't made to suffer longer.
Not too sad about Hershel, if someone had to die I would prefer it to be him rather than Michonne.
The person who was really irritating me was Tara. So much big talk from her and when it comes to the crunch, she's shit scared to do anything.
I also think Carol was covering for Mika or Lizzie; I think one of the girls is the rat feeder and killed those two (can't remember the characters) and Carol just removed the bodies when she found out.
By the way:
According to Melissa McBride's IMDB page, she is back from episode 10 next year ;-)
Couldn't understand why Michonne didn't stay with Rick.
Someone a couple of pages ago said they hoped to see the guv as a zombie... He got shot in the face by Lilly.
That also means Lilly & Tara are obviously still alive. I suppose it depends on the contract negotiations of the actresses playing them
It looks like Tyreese has Judith. I'm betting Judith is injured. Tyreese finds a group of survivors who save her & also have Carol in their ranks. Carol & Tyreese become good friends then down the line he finds out Carol was the one who killed his girlfriend.
I knew the tv series wouldn't be as brave as the comics and kill Judith..
Granted we didn't see Lily and Tara be killed but that doesn't mean they weren't killed by walkers in the aftermath of the battle
Really enjoyed the episode, so much that I'll watch the repeat on Wednesday cos you can always spot something you didn't see first time around
So glad the Gov'nor got his, just a bit annoyed that he wasn't made to suffer longer.
Not too sad about Hershel, if someone had to die I would prefer it to be him rather than Michonne.
The person who was really irritating me was Tara. So much big talk from her and when it comes to the crunch, she's shit scared to do anything.
I also think Carol was covering for Mika or Lizzie; I think one of the girls is the rat feeder and killed those two (can't remember the characters) and Carol just removed the bodies when she found out.
By the way:
According to Melissa McBride's IMDB page, she is back from episode 10 next year ;-)
As for Carol I expect Tyreese and the kids to meet up with her and some of the new characters announced a month or so ago
Abraham Ford, Eugene Porter and Rosita Espinosa who are due to turn up in Episode 10
The amount of people on here that mustn't pay attention to what's happened in the show is amazing.
Someone a couple of pages ago said they hoped to see the guv as a zombie... He got shot in the face by Lilly.
.....we don't know that 100%.
Yep - the last time we saw The Guv, he was on the ground, stab wound and all, with a pistol facing towards his head. We then never actually saw the gun go off into his face but rather just heard a gunshot.
She could have fired away from him, right at the last moment.........
We do not know if he is 100% dead because we were never shown his lifeless body on the ground.
Yep - the last time we saw The Guv, he was on the ground, stab wound and all, with a pistol facing towards his head. We then never actually saw the gun go off into his face but rather just heard a gunshot.
She could have fired away from him, right at the last moment.........
We do not know if he is 100% dead because we were never shown his lifeless body on the ground.
He was dead before he was shot in the head. There were zombies approaching he couldn't move. he'd had a sword through the chest. Lily merely put him out of his misery. He's dead 100%.
We never saw Lori's body after Carl had shot her. People stupidly thought she could come back.
Fairly sure the girl is a psycho. I still think Carol took a fall for her.
Interesting theory.
It looked quite cut & dried with Carol but she might well have been covering for the kids.
I mean, she was teaching them in secret so if one of them went a bit nuts maybe she'd feel like she had to take the blame.
Must admit, I thought the firefight was a total fiasco and I was happy to see somebody "doing it right" but it does make you wonder whether these kids are being turned into bunny-boilers.
Carl had got very trigger happy by the end of S3. I think that's why Rick went from rootin, rootin Rick to Farmer Rick by beginning of S4 (there's a clear implication of time having passed relatively peacefully). Think Carl was removed from guns and general Zombie killing duties. Overall, I'm not particularly unnerved by Carl. I think he just became a bit desensitised to it all. The young girl scares the hell out of me.
Uhuh, I thought that too.
There's just something about Carl that always creeps me out, like he's always only one scowl away from doing something really bad.
Every time he gets screen-time I think it's going to end with him stood over a dead body, claiming that somebody "looked at him funny" or summat.
Kudos to the kid who plays the part and to the writers.
I think that the one thing that TWD does very well is instill a feeling of precariousness about it all.
We've seen them kill off one main character after another so we know nobody's "safe" and the stuff with the kids potentially being nutcases is another example of this.
Mutilating animals is an early sign of psychopathy. That's how Tyreese interpreted it. It's possible that the person who pinned up the one that was found, also tormented others and then fed them to zombies to destroy the evidence.
It's also possible that the contradiction you've observed could be resolved by it being two different people. Feeding the zombies would suggest an abundance of empathy. Lizzie is a strong candidate for that. Tormenting rats is the opposite, so that could be someone else. For example, Beth, who seems to be emotionally dead now. "We've all got jobs to do." Beth wasn't phased when her boyfriend Zach died. Or it might be the other way about. Beth has some history of feeding zombies (it's what they used to do at Herschel's farm), and Lizzie might have been practising on rats in at attempt to toughen herself up as Carol wanted. (Some of the dialogue between the younger sister, Mika, and Carol, about how Lizzie was tough, could mean Mika knew that Lizzie was torturing rats.)
At this point we can only speculate.
Uhuh,
I don't really have any theories about it all.
I'm just not sure whether it's all "up in the air" because they're trying to show what a crazy world they're in or whether they're hinting at things to come and I think it'd be nice if they did try to make that distinction clearer for the audience.
Course, maybe they're just bunging a heap of stuff in so they've got plenty of potential storylines to pick up on later?
Did you have other examples of Carl being "a complete psycho for the best part of 2 seasons now"?
I'd have to re-watch the episodes to find them all but I think I made a post about it earlier.
It all started with all the stuff about Shane and seems to have been recurring ever since.
There was the thing where they had somebody locked up in Hershel's barn and Carl was involved with that.
Just seems like Carl continually responds to things in ways that don't seem "normal".
Well, season 4 had a new show-runner, Scott Gimple. I think he's the best we've had on the show. But arguably, he has spent much of his time dealing with the legacy left by the previous show-runners. Carl would be part of that legacy. The Governor is another part.
Frankly, the mid-season finale we just had should have been the season 3 finale. It would have made more sense then, and been more emotionally satisfying. The Governor even had an armoured vehicle he got from the National Guard - we know he brought it back to Woodbury, because we saw Michonne inspect its bullet holes. For some reason he didn't use it in his first assault against the prison. I forget what weaponry it had, but I'm sure it could at least have ridden down the fences and provide cover to following infantry. It would make sense for the Governor to trash the prison at that time, because he had the secure Woodbury to fall back on. Doing it now makes less sense because he'd have to repair those fences himself.
I agree with everything you've said... Another thing about those armoured vehicle the Woodbury lot had... What happened to them? Why didn't Rick and the Prison group take them all and use them for defence?
Also if the group had dug a trench around the fences like i've stated many times, Most of the cars that attacked the prison wouldn't have been able to follow the tank (which i expect could have got over the trenches). They just needed to make a drawbridge at the main gate. Yes it's alot of man power to do that but they had the people before the virus.
He was dead before he was shot in the head. There were zombies approaching he couldn't move. he'd had a sword through the chest. Lily merely put him out of his misery. He's dead 100%.
We never saw Lori's body after Carl had shot her. People stupidly thought she could come back.
...you're mistaken!! he definitely was not dead before he was shot!
Yes, he was on the ground on his back and he was writhing around in agony, however, he was 100% NOT DEAD. Lily pointed the gun at his head and he looked back at her. The camera then panned away ( I think it cut to a black screen) and we heard a gun shot.
At no point did we ever see him dead on the ground - with or without a bullet in his head...!!!!
...you're mistaken!! he definitely was not dead before he was shot!
Yes, he was on the ground on his back and he was writhing around in agony, however, he was 100% NOT DEAD. Lily pointed the gun at his head and he looked back at her. The camera then panned away ( I think it cut to a black screen) and we heard a gun shot.
At no point did we ever see him dead on the ground - with or without a bullet in his head...!!!!
I totally agree. First rule of TV, if a character isn't shown to be dead then he isn't dead. As 'deans' said above, we heard a shot but we didn't see the Governer dead. He'll be back. You don't kill off a great baddie like the Governer, not until you absolutely have to... and he'll get a much worse end than that, ripped limb from limb, I expect, but not yet.
I agree with everything you've said... Another thing about those armoured vehicle the Woodbury lot had... What happened to them? Why didn't Rick and the Prison group take them all and use them for defence?
That whole thing was a bit of a mess IMO.
I seem to recall asking about that at the time and it was suggested that there wasn't fuel for them.
Which kinda makes sense. A Hummer only does about 5 miles to the gallon and a lorry does about the same so it'd probably be smarter to use the fuel in smaller vehicles that can do 30-odd MPG.
Course, that begs the question of where the guv's crew found the fuel to get an Abrams tank (which does about 2 gallons per mile) from their camp to the prison.
Which, in turn, kinda makes you wonder why Michonne or anybody else had never actually stumbled across a group with those kind of resources on their travels or why nobody heard a ferking tank coming toward the prison.
I guess a lot of this stuff is being explained away by saying that a lot of the people at the prison were sick but, c'mon.
Did they all just decide to stay in bed and forget about the zombie apocalypse while people were ill?
No contingency plans? No patrols? No supply runs? No look-outs? Nobody out in the fields at all?
If I've learned one thing from TWD it's that in the event of a zombie apocalypse you should ALWAYS store your shit in a vehicle so you can take it with you if you ever need to make a hasty exit.
I'm not understanding all the talk about Carl being "unnerving". He's a kid who's grown up with this and he is clearly desensitised to it all, but I actually see him as one of the most balanced characters. Who do you want at your side when s**t goes down? At least you know Carl's going to scoop up a rifle and watch your back. He makes calm, logical decisions. The main problem with Carl is that his decision making can be too logical - see shooting the kid at the end of season 3. He's one of the most cold, logical characters there most of the time. Honestly, at this point, if I had to pick three characters to watch my back it'd be Carl, Daryl and Michonne.
Carl has seen people die because of hesitation and because of showing excessive humanity. He thinks. He tries to protect people. Look at how he's dealt with the prison. He took charge when Tyreese, Sasha and co turned up. He's practical. He's observant. IMO he's one of the most predictable characters there. I never know how Rick's going to react, and Michonne can be a bit of a loose canon occasionally. Carol is hard to read. Tyrese is a nut case. Glenn, Daryl and Maggie are reasonably predictable. Beth is worryingly apathetic. But Carl... Carl's easy.
Vey pleased the last episode was so good, it really made up for the previous two pointless Governor episodes.
Also pleased with Fox moving it to a Monday night, so we see it less than 24 hours after it's US showing, and we can do away with having two separate pace threads on the forum.
...you're mistaken!! he definitely was not dead before he was shot!
Yes, he was on the ground on his back and he was writhing around in agony, however, he was 100% NOT DEAD. Lily pointed the gun at his head and he looked back at her. The camera then panned away ( I think it cut to a black screen) and we heard a gun shot.
At no point did we ever see him dead on the ground - with or without a bullet in his head...!!!!
I totally agree. First rule of TV, if a character isn't shown to be dead then he isn't dead. As 'deans' said above, we heard a shot but we didn't see the Governer dead. He'll be back. You don't kill off a great baddie like the Governer, not until you absolutely have to... and he'll get a much worse end than that, ripped limb from limb, I expect, but not yet.
I obviously wasn't referring to him being 100% stone cold dead before he got the bullet through the head but the fact that if you get a sword through the chest you are not going to walk off. The place was surrounded by walkers. If Lily hadn't of shot him. He only had a few minutes left anyways.
Lily kills the Gov. He's dead. He dies in the comic book at this point too. - All the producers & Scott G have said he's dead.
Like Dirty Den in Eastenders though he could be 'brought' back if ratings declined or something. But i'm betting we'll never see him again.
The series has so much material from the comics & there are more bad guys/groups to come. They'll concentrate on them.
I'm not understanding all the talk about Carl being "unnerving". He's a kid who's grown up with this and he is clearly desensitised to it all, but I actually see him as one of the most balanced characters. Who do you want at your side when s**t goes down? At least you know Carl's going to scoop up a rifle and watch your back. He makes calm, logical decisions. The main problem with Carl is that his decision making can be too logical - see shooting the kid at the end of season 3. He's one of the most cold, logical characters there most of the time. Honestly, at this point, if I had to pick three characters to watch my back it'd be Carl, Daryl and Michonne.
Carl has seen people die because of hesitation and because of showing excessive humanity. He thinks. He tries to protect people. Look at how he's dealt with the prison. He took charge when Tyreese, Sasha and co turned up. He's practical. He's observant. IMO he's one of the most predictable characters there. I never know how Rick's going to react, and Michonne can be a bit of a loose canon occasionally. Carol is hard to read. Tyrese is a nut case. Glenn, Daryl and Maggie are reasonably predictable. Beth is worryingly apathetic. But Carl... Carl's easy.
Carl has become a decent character. I couldn't stand the kid during the first 2 seasons. By the 3rd season he started becoming tolerable. Now I like him and (as you mentioned) would rather have him, Michonne and Darryl watching my back. If this kid survives to adulthood, he's going to eventually become a leader. But he's been through so much that he can also unravel and become nuts - like the governor.
Well, considering the tangent that the show had gone on compared to the comics, I really couldn't see how they would tie it all up, but with a few exceptions, it's pretty much there to the end of the prison arc, and it was so clever the way they did it. Episodes 6 and 7 which just followed the governor were a surprising change of direction, but one which worked so well, and that finale was probably the best episode they have done so far, so tense, and a few deaths which tie in with the comics well, even though they happened to different people at different times, and with the (unfortunate) exception of Andrea, the main players are in the right places. What arc's gonna be next?
Was surprised to see the Governor dead, even though that's where it happens in the comic, I thought they might have kept him on for longer because Morrisey is SO good, but the show will move on, and it's in such good hands.
Comments
Someone a couple of pages ago said they hoped to see the guv as a zombie... He got shot in the face by Lilly.
That also means Lilly & Tara are obviously still alive.
It looks like Tyreese has Judith. I'm betting Judith is injured. Tyreese finds a group of survivors who save her & also have Carol in their ranks. Carol & Tyreese become good friends then down the line he finds out Carol was the one who killed his girlfriend.
I knew the tv series wouldn't be as brave as the comics and kill Judith..
Unless I'm mistaken, in the TWD universe the zombie infection is specific to humans and animals don't get reanimated, right?
Seems like here we are, mid-season, and there's quite a few unanswered questions.
There was a girl (I forget her name) who was acting like the zombies could be "pets".
Seems like she might've been feeding the rats to the Z's because she had some sympathy for them or it might've been a calculated attempt at sabotage, by somebody, to get the zombies to damage the fence.
Conversely, the rat they found pinned to the board was clearly being used for some kind of experimentation or study.
But if animals don't get reanimated, it's not like somebody was experimenting on a zombie rat. They were just doing the same sort of thing that happens in school science labs, right?
I'm not sure whether they're actually going somewhere with all this stuff or whether it's just intended to show us that people's attitudes change fundamentally (the same girl who wanted to keep a Z as a pet put a bullet in 2 of the guv's crew without a 2nd thought) as their circumstances change.
I mean, Carl has been acting like a complete psycho for the best part of 2 seasons now and they haven't gone anywhere with that at all.
Are they just playing a "long game" with setting up plots or is it just a way of showing us how messed-up people can be and, of course, helping to make the audience rather uneasy too.
Seems like whenever Carl appears, you're never entirely sure if he's going to do something dodgy but he never seems to so they've certainly succeeded in making me uneasy about him.
That scene where The Governor was holding the samurai sword against Hershal's throat, and Rick was making his 'we can all live together' speech, there was a split second, where the camera slowly zoomed in to The Governor's face, I thought he was actually going to agree with Rick - but then as he muttered that word - 'Liar', and raised his sword - there was only gonna be one conclusion...!!!
Can't wait til February.... To be honest, I've kinda enjoyed watching The Walking Dead on a Friday night -its gonna be weird watching it at the start of the week instead (when it returns)!
So much going on, poor Hershall. I really wanted him to survive. What will they do now without a doctor ???
Thank god the Guv is finally dead...was surprised that Michonne left him alive...i thought for sure she would cut his head off in revenge for Hershall...
And the killer kids ??? I cheered when they saved Tyreese. Well done to Carol for training them all up lol.
Am disappointed that they all seem to have split, not sure how they are going to all find each other again.
Now the long wait till February
Fairly sure the girl is a psycho. I still think Carol took a fall for her.
Carl had got very trigger happy by the end of S3. I think that's why Rick went from rootin, rootin Rick to Farmer Rick by beginning of S4 (there's a clear implication of time having passed relatively peacefully). Think Carl was removed from guns and general Zombie killing duties. Overall, I'm not particularly unnerved by Carl. I think he just became a bit desensitised to it all. The young girl scares the hell out of me.
Mutilating animals is an early sign of psychopathy. That's how Tyreese interpreted it. It's possible that the person who pinned up the one that was found, also tormented others and then fed them to zombies to destroy the evidence.
It's also possible that the contradiction you've observed could be resolved by it being two different people. Feeding the zombies would suggest an abundance of empathy. Lizzie is a strong candidate for that. Tormenting rats is the opposite, so that could be someone else. For example, Beth, who seems to be emotionally dead now. "We've all got jobs to do." Beth wasn't phased when her boyfriend Zach died. Or it might be the other way about. Beth has some history of feeding zombies (it's what they used to do at Herschel's farm), and Lizzie might have been practising on rats in at attempt to toughen herself up as Carol wanted. (Some of the dialogue between the younger sister, Mika, and Carol, about how Lizzie was tough, could mean Mika knew that Lizzie was torturing rats.)
At this point we can only speculate.
They had Rick's reaction, which was to deny him weapons and generally attempt to teach him what he did was wrong and unacceptable. That's been going on for however long the gap between season 3 and 4 was. He seems to get it now. If Carl is better, maybe it worked. Personally I've always thought Carl did the right thing to shoot the youth who refused to lay down his weapon when told. He's been pretty cool for all of season 3 and 4 so far - eg the way he gave sanctuary to Tyreese' group without letting them harm his own people, was excellent. However, maybe the show disagrees with me. Perhaps Carl is in fact a psychopath who indulges his urges in secret on rats.
Did you have other examples of Carl being "a complete psycho for the best part of 2 seasons now"?
Well, season 4 had a new show-runner, Scott Gimple. I think he's the best we've had on the show. But arguably, he has spent much of his time dealing with the legacy left by the previous show-runners. Carl would be part of that legacy. The Governor is another part.
Frankly, the mid-season finale we just had should have been the season 3 finale. It would have made more sense then, and been more emotionally satisfying. The Governor even had an armoured vehicle he got from the National Guard - we know he brought it back to Woodbury, because we saw Michonne inspect its bullet holes. For some reason he didn't use it in his first assault against the prison. I forget what weaponry it had, but I'm sure it could at least have ridden down the fences and provide cover to following infantry. It would make sense for the Governor to trash the prison at that time, because he had the secure Woodbury to fall back on. Doing it now makes less sense because he'd have to repair those fences himself.
Anyway, I figure plot points raised in the current season, by the current show-runner, will be resolved in due course, and probably by season's end.
Yeah, those two slow Governor-centric episodes made it seem almost possible.
So glad the Gov'nor got his, just a bit annoyed that he wasn't made to suffer longer.
Not too sad about Hershel, if someone had to die I would prefer it to be him rather than Michonne.
The person who was really irritating me was Tara. So much big talk from her and when it comes to the crunch, she's shit scared to do anything.
I also think Carol was covering for Mika or Lizzie; I think one of the girls is the rat feeder and killed those two (can't remember the characters) and Carol just removed the bodies when she found out.
By the way:
Couldn't understand why Michonne didn't stay with Rick.
Granted we didn't see Lily and Tara be killed but that doesn't mean they weren't killed by walkers in the aftermath of the battle
As for Carol I expect Tyreese and the kids to meet up with her and some of the new characters announced a month or so ago
.....we don't know that 100%.
Yep - the last time we saw The Guv, he was on the ground, stab wound and all, with a pistol facing towards his head. We then never actually saw the gun go off into his face but rather just heard a gunshot.
She could have fired away from him, right at the last moment.........
We do not know if he is 100% dead because we were never shown his lifeless body on the ground.
He was dead before he was shot in the head. There were zombies approaching he couldn't move. he'd had a sword through the chest. Lily merely put him out of his misery. He's dead 100%.
We never saw Lori's body after Carl had shot her. People stupidly thought she could come back.
Interesting theory.
It looked quite cut & dried with Carol but she might well have been covering for the kids.
I mean, she was teaching them in secret so if one of them went a bit nuts maybe she'd feel like she had to take the blame.
Must admit, I thought the firefight was a total fiasco and I was happy to see somebody "doing it right" but it does make you wonder whether these kids are being turned into bunny-boilers.
Uhuh, I thought that too.
There's just something about Carl that always creeps me out, like he's always only one scowl away from doing something really bad.
Every time he gets screen-time I think it's going to end with him stood over a dead body, claiming that somebody "looked at him funny" or summat.
Kudos to the kid who plays the part and to the writers.
I think that the one thing that TWD does very well is instill a feeling of precariousness about it all.
We've seen them kill off one main character after another so we know nobody's "safe" and the stuff with the kids potentially being nutcases is another example of this.
Uhuh,
I don't really have any theories about it all.
I'm just not sure whether it's all "up in the air" because they're trying to show what a crazy world they're in or whether they're hinting at things to come and I think it'd be nice if they did try to make that distinction clearer for the audience.
Course, maybe they're just bunging a heap of stuff in so they've got plenty of potential storylines to pick up on later?
I'd have to re-watch the episodes to find them all but I think I made a post about it earlier.
It all started with all the stuff about Shane and seems to have been recurring ever since.
There was the thing where they had somebody locked up in Hershel's barn and Carl was involved with that.
Just seems like Carl continually responds to things in ways that don't seem "normal".
I agree with everything you've said... Another thing about those armoured vehicle the Woodbury lot had... What happened to them? Why didn't Rick and the Prison group take them all and use them for defence?
Also if the group had dug a trench around the fences like i've stated many times, Most of the cars that attacked the prison wouldn't have been able to follow the tank (which i expect could have got over the trenches). They just needed to make a drawbridge at the main gate. Yes it's alot of man power to do that but they had the people before the virus.
...you're mistaken!! he definitely was not dead before he was shot!
Yes, he was on the ground on his back and he was writhing around in agony, however, he was 100% NOT DEAD. Lily pointed the gun at his head and he looked back at her. The camera then panned away ( I think it cut to a black screen) and we heard a gun shot.
At no point did we ever see him dead on the ground - with or without a bullet in his head...!!!!
I totally agree. First rule of TV, if a character isn't shown to be dead then he isn't dead. As 'deans' said above, we heard a shot but we didn't see the Governer dead. He'll be back. You don't kill off a great baddie like the Governer, not until you absolutely have to... and he'll get a much worse end than that, ripped limb from limb, I expect, but not yet.
That whole thing was a bit of a mess IMO.
I seem to recall asking about that at the time and it was suggested that there wasn't fuel for them.
Which kinda makes sense. A Hummer only does about 5 miles to the gallon and a lorry does about the same so it'd probably be smarter to use the fuel in smaller vehicles that can do 30-odd MPG.
Course, that begs the question of where the guv's crew found the fuel to get an Abrams tank (which does about 2 gallons per mile) from their camp to the prison.
Which, in turn, kinda makes you wonder why Michonne or anybody else had never actually stumbled across a group with those kind of resources on their travels or why nobody heard a ferking tank coming toward the prison.
I guess a lot of this stuff is being explained away by saying that a lot of the people at the prison were sick but, c'mon.
Did they all just decide to stay in bed and forget about the zombie apocalypse while people were ill?
No contingency plans? No patrols? No supply runs? No look-outs? Nobody out in the fields at all?
If I've learned one thing from TWD it's that in the event of a zombie apocalypse you should ALWAYS store your shit in a vehicle so you can take it with you if you ever need to make a hasty exit.
Carl has seen people die because of hesitation and because of showing excessive humanity. He thinks. He tries to protect people. Look at how he's dealt with the prison. He took charge when Tyreese, Sasha and co turned up. He's practical. He's observant. IMO he's one of the most predictable characters there. I never know how Rick's going to react, and Michonne can be a bit of a loose canon occasionally. Carol is hard to read. Tyrese is a nut case. Glenn, Daryl and Maggie are reasonably predictable. Beth is worryingly apathetic. But Carl... Carl's easy.
Also pleased with Fox moving it to a Monday night, so we see it less than 24 hours after it's US showing, and we can do away with having two separate pace threads on the forum.
I obviously wasn't referring to him being 100% stone cold dead before he got the bullet through the head but the fact that if you get a sword through the chest you are not going to walk off. The place was surrounded by walkers. If Lily hadn't of shot him. He only had a few minutes left anyways.
Lily kills the Gov. He's dead. He dies in the comic book at this point too. - All the producers & Scott G have said he's dead.
Like Dirty Den in Eastenders though he could be 'brought' back if ratings declined or something. But i'm betting we'll never see him again.
The series has so much material from the comics & there are more bad guys/groups to come. They'll concentrate on them.
Carl has become a decent character. I couldn't stand the kid during the first 2 seasons. By the 3rd season he started becoming tolerable. Now I like him and (as you mentioned) would rather have him, Michonne and Darryl watching my back. If this kid survives to adulthood, he's going to eventually become a leader. But he's been through so much that he can also unravel and become nuts - like the governor.
I'm so glad the Governor got what was coming to him.
And I don't think Judith is dead.
Was surprised to see the Governor dead, even though that's where it happens in the comic, I thought they might have kept him on for longer because Morrisey is SO good, but the show will move on, and it's in such good hands.