Assassins Creed : Unity

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,813
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    Naa_KwaKai wrote: »
    What does that even mean that a female character "won't work"? Ubisoft can make any character work if they put the effort in. Why is it that it's perfectly natural to have a male character but when it comes to a female we need a "reason"? Why is the white male the default and the female/POC the option, extra feature?

    It's a flimsy excuse.

    Geez, I feel like I travelled back in time to the 70s. Some seriously outdated views.

    It means that ubisoft have written a story and the lead character is a male not a female to make the character a female at this late stage just wouldn't work

    Take mass effect for example have you played the game as both a male and female, did you notice how both versions have obvious and subtle differences, in terms of language, body language, relationships, body movements etc

    Do you really want assassin's creed unity to have a female character that moves like a man, talks like a man would but in a female voice and general has the mannerisms of a man, wouldn't you rather they make an assassin from the ground up as a female, oh they did but in your view it doesn't count because it wasn't mainstream enough

    My personal view I don't give a shit whether I play as a man/woman/black/white/asian/alien or anything else, I play for the story and if the story fits a woman like Tomb Raider then great, if the story fits a male like Uncharted then great, the characters need to fit the story that is all is that matters
  • Naa_KwaKaiNaa_KwaKai Posts: 1,883
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    thomas2400 wrote: »
    It means that ubisoft have written a story and the lead character is a male not a female to make the character a female at this late stage just wouldn't work

    Who has said anything about changing the gender and race at this stage? It's way too late for that now, I just want my AC game! lol
    Me stating my positives and negatives upon first impression wasn't about changing the current format. It was simply me passing judgement on a couple of video clips. I have no desire to change the current game. Ubisoft made their choice; I only hope future instalments includes some diversity.
    Take mass effect for example have you played the game as both a male and female, did you notice how both versions have obvious and subtle differences, in terms of language, body language, relationships, body movements etc Do you really want assassin's creed unity to have a female character that moves like a man, talks like a man would but in a female voice and general has the mannerisms of a man, wouldn't you rather they make an assassin from the ground up as a female,
    My personal view I don't give a shit whether I play as a man/woman/black/white/asian/alien or anything else, I play for the story and if the story fits a woman like Tomb Raider then great, if the story fits a male like Uncharted then great, the characters need to fit the story that is all is that matters

    I've put these quotes together to underscore that you keep flip flopping between game mechanics and game story. Story is the narrative, the plot points etc.. Movements, appearance etc is the mechanics of the game. I've answered your question in regards to mechanics already but as for story this is essentially what I'm getting at when I say "needing a reason" for it to be female is absolutely ridiculous. The best stories are the ones that fit any gender, where the character isn't defined by his or her sex. The Tomb Raider reboot was a wonderful game both in game play and story for this reason. Nothing that Lara did was dependent on her gender; you could have easily cast a male in the role provided that you changed the mechanics
    oh they did but in your view it doesn't count because it wasn't mainstream enough

    I've said what I have to say on this particular matter. 'Liberation' and the female character in it was handled poorly. If you think otherwise that's your opinion. This is mine.
  • Sick BulletSick Bullet Posts: 20,770
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    I think this is going to be best since Brotherhood or maybe better.
  • MC_SatanMC_Satan Posts: 26,512
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    I think this is going to be best since Brotherhood or maybe better.

    I do hope so. That was by far the best one. The dungeon bits were nice and challenging and the hired Assassins were an inspired addition. Not keen on revelations (the 3d worked well though). I loved Black Flag but I appreciate not everyone liked it.
  • seanfseanf Posts: 3,092
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    Naa_KwaKai wrote: »
    Agree that it's more diverse than MOST video games but that's not saying much. One female character out of the countless instalments we've had is disgraceful.

    You do seem to have a problem with white men, and come across a tad racist at times. Just my opinion but I think if this was the other way round the mods would have put an end to this thread.
  • Naa_KwaKaiNaa_KwaKai Posts: 1,883
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    seanf wrote: »
    You do seem to have a problem with white men, and come across a tad racist at times. Just my opinion but I think if this was the other way round the mods would have put an end to this thread.

    Lock the thread? We were all having a nice discussion about AC Unity started by SaddlerSteve and you took one negative opinion I had regarding my first impressions of the game and turned it into a war zone. I said many things about the Unity, positive and negative and that was the one thing you latched on to, why?

    Expressing desire to see diversity in some games does not automatically = anti white male, it means I want to see some other social groups alongside them. To suggest the mods are somehow keeping this thread afloat because I'm black is in itself rather racist as it suggests you think blacks have some sort of pass in life. Furthermore, I didn't start this thread so it would be a kick in the teeth to SaddlerSteve and everybody who wants to discuss the game to lock it.

    The lack of diversity in Unity is something that many people are talking about across the web, not just me. There's even a petition going around on change.org lol Plus this hilarious tweet from Jim Sterling: https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/476129542256734208

    So yeah, there was some excellent discussion here about Unity and the franchise as a whole that is until you derailed it much like you're doing now when you could have just PM'd me. If you have a problem with me as a person put me on ignore or PM, don't use this as a platform to have go because no one cares.

    Now, let's get back to the game.
  • seanfseanf Posts: 3,092
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    Naa_KwaKai wrote: »
    Lock the thread? We were all having a nice discussion about AC Unity started by SaddlerSteve and you took one negative opinion I had regarding my first impressions of the game and turned it into a war zone. I said many things about the Unity, positive and negative and that was the one thing you latched on to, why?

    Expressing desire to see diversity in some games does not automatically = anti white male, it means I want to see some other social groups alongside them. To suggest the mods are somehow keeping this thread afloat because I'm black is in itself rather racist as it suggests you think blacks have some sort of pass in life. Furthermore, I didn't start this thread so it would be a kick in the teeth to SaddlerSteve and everybody who wants to discuss the game to lock it.

    The lack of diversity in Unity is something that many people are talking about across the web, not just me. There's even a petition going around on change.org lol Plus this hilarious tweet from Jim Sterling: https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/476129542256734208

    So yeah, there was some excellent discussion here about Unity and the franchise as a whole that is until you derailed it much like you're doing now when you could have just PM'd me. If you have a problem with me as a person put me on ignore or PM, don't use this as a platform to have go because no one cares.

    Now, let's get back to the game.


    ok my last post ( I do like the last word) I don't know you so how can I have a problem with you? I dont pm people I was picking up on the fact your negatives for this game are
    the protagonists dont have french accents so it unrealistic but you want a black female protagonist which would be more unrealistic. btw I dont give a toss what race or gender the protagonists are in games, in mass effect my best character was fem shep but Jennifer hale is also a better actor than mark meer.
  • Naa_KwaKaiNaa_KwaKai Posts: 1,883
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    seanf wrote: »
    ok my last post ( I do like the last word) I don't know you so how can I have a problem with you? I dont pm people I was picking up on the fact your negatives for this game are the protagonists dont have french accents so it unrealistic but you want a black female protagonist which would be more unrealistic.

    It was one of the criticisms I had with the clips I saw, yes. although you've missed my point entirely: The issue I raised about "realism" was about the absurdity of applying real world standards to a fictional game whereas the accent thing is about the game being inconsistent in what it's established. It's kind of (but not quite) like a plot hole - it contradicts the logic and the rules established within the game itself not the logic of real life. There is a difference.

    I'm going to use an epic analogy: have you seen the latest Superman film? There is a massive plot hole within this film. Krypton is on the verge of an apocalypse because genetic engineering has contributed to the planet's destruction - as a result Krypton exhausted their resources and it removed free will, choice and morality. However, Jor-El and Lara have hope because they give birth to Kal-El (Superman) who is Krypton's first natural birth in centuries. For this reason, it is said that he has free will so they send him off to Earth. Jor-El and Lara don't have free will so they cannot go with Kal-El to Earth because they are the "products of their world".

    However, Jor-El then installs something called a "codex" (a skull that holds all Kryptonian DNA/babies) in Kal-El's blood so that Clark can extract it and make genetically engineered Kryptonians on Earth to live alongside humans even though it was established earlier in the film that genetic engineering destroyed Krypton in the first place.

    That is what you would call a plot hole - something that contradicts/destroys the logic of plot itself. It's an inconsistency within the narrative. Whereas applying realistic standards would be if I said "well, Kal-El shouldn't have free will because the way genetics work in real life is that you're a combination of your mother and father". This would be a silly argument because nobody has said that's the case within that Sci-Fi universe.

    Now if we take it back to Unity it is clear that everyone born and raised within Paris has a French accent and yet Arnos does not. That is an inconsistency within the game itself. It's exactly the same thing they did with Altair - gave him an American accent when everybody else clearly had different ones.

    Oh, and I never actually said I wanted a black female protagonist - you've assumed that because you know I'm a black woman.
    btw I dont give a toss what race or gender the protagonists are in games, in mass effect my best character was fem shep but Jennifer hale is also a better actor than mark meer.

    Sean. So. What? I don't care what you do in 'Mass Effect'. Why are you telling me this? I don't care.
  • seanfseanf Posts: 3,092
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    Naa_KwaKai wrote: »

    Oh, and I never actually said I wanted a black female protagonist - you've assumed that because you know I'm a black woman.

    How do I know you're a black woman? yes you have said many a time you're female and you are of colour. So yes I could assume you are female but you could be of Asian, Indian, Chinese, Japanese even Spanish.......need I go on or you could be a man, on the net we are what ever we want people to think we are
  • Naa_KwaKaiNaa_KwaKai Posts: 1,883
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    seanf wrote: »
    How do I know you're a black woman? yes you have said many a time you're female and you are of colour. So yes I could assume you are female but you could be of Asian, Indian, Chinese, Japanese even Spanish.......need I go on or you could be a man, on the net we are what ever we want people to think we are

    Ok and now you're just blatantly off-topic.
  • seanfseanf Posts: 3,092
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    Naa_KwaKai wrote: »
    Ok and now you're just blatantly off-topic.

    sent you a pm so this thread can get back on topic :)
  • MC_SatanMC_Satan Posts: 26,512
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    Just been catching up on e3 videos. The gameplay video looked great. Nice and crisp. If I'm going to nitpick the characters don't reflect in puddles!
  • seanfseanf Posts: 3,092
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    MC_Satan wrote: »
    Just been catching up on e3 videos. The gameplay video looked great. Nice and crisp. If I'm going to nitpick the characters don't reflect in puddles!

    I've not watched any of the videos, and probably won't, would be nice to see reflections in puddles you'd think the ps4 and x1 could handle it
  • MC_SatanMC_Satan Posts: 26,512
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    Nitpicking I know but it does jar a little bit. I may avoid anymore gameplay trailers from here on in case of spoilers.
  • Sick BulletSick Bullet Posts: 20,770
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    MC_Satan wrote: »
    I do hope so. That was by far the best one. The dungeon bits were nice and challenging and the hired Assassins were an inspired addition. Not keen on revelations (the 3d worked well though). I loved Black Flag but I appreciate not everyone liked it.

    Yes the dungeons were great, I think they said there are catacombs that are huge which should be fun I do hope it's the biggest world yet.
  • MC_SatanMC_Satan Posts: 26,512
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    I seem to remember reading Paris is riddled with mine workings, underground ossaries and tunnels. I don't remember when they were built though if before or after the revolution.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 565
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    Naa_KwaKai wrote: »
    Lock the thread? We were all having a nice discussion about AC Unity started by SaddlerSteve and you took one negative opinion I had regarding my first impressions of the game and turned it into a war zone. I said many things about the Unity, positive and negative and that was the one thing you latched on to, why?

    Expressing desire to see diversity in some games does not automatically = anti white male, it means I want to see some other social groups alongside them. To suggest the mods are somehow keeping this thread afloat because I'm black is in itself rather racist as it suggests you think blacks have some sort of pass in life. Furthermore, I didn't start this thread so it would be a kick in the teeth to SaddlerSteve and everybody who wants to discuss the game to lock it.

    The lack of diversity in Unity is something that many people are talking about across the web, not just me. There's even a petition going around on change.org lol Plus this hilarious tweet from Jim Sterling: https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/476129542256734208

    So yeah, there was some excellent discussion here about Unity and the franchise as a whole that is until you derailed it much like you're doing now when you could have just PM'd me. If you have a problem with me as a person put me on ignore or PM, don't use this as a platform to have go because no one cares.

    Now, let's get back to the game.

    I dont think that a thread should be locked because the discussion is heated or uncomfortable.
    If we dont share our own views on a subject then whats the point of even posting on here.

    While the overall issue is that once again the main character(s) in a game are white guys who look the same and will invariably apart from a few tweeks/special abilitys will play exactly the same so why couldnt the dev have mixed things up a little and reskined the co-op as being more diverse so as to offer a greater appeal as well as not give a random "cloned assassin" look.

    I would argue in Ubisofts defence that out of all the annual game devs, AC is easily the most diverse and innovative when it comes to characters and storylines.

    Neither do I think that Ubisoft are only making the main character in their flagship game series white male just to appeal to the same male demographic.

    Diversity is important and should be vital not just in a game series like this but in all media.

    Not to sound like a hippy but We are all one people at the end of the day.
  • tombigbeetombigbee Posts: 4,639
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    Did a Google search for this game and articles about the lack of female characters were the first thing that came up:

    http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/assassins-creed-unity-female-characters-take-a-lot-more-work/
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 565
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    tombigbee wrote: »
    Did a Google search for this game and articles about the lack of female characters were the first thing that came up:

    http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/assassins-creed-unity-female-characters-take-a-lot-more-work/

    Thanks for the link, some very interesting points made and agree that it would take a boat load of work to add a female assassin ...if only they had experience making a game where the main character was a female assassin....

    Alot of the character movements are motion captured with animations overlaid to get the desired effects.

    It still doesnt answer alot of the other questions/critics that have been bought up about the ethnic background/voice acting etc.

    I feel that this is an excuse to hide behind the vale of "technical limitations / time" rather than just say "ok we really didnt think this one through"

    These games are supposed to have three year dev cycles now and are cutting corners using previous games animations / core assets as the foundations and building from that point forward.

    I still maintain that I need to play the game first before really passing judgement as there could be some good reasons storywise for the choices made and I would argue that Ubisoft have earned a little trust after all this time of (apart from AC3...man that was bad) a series of solid games.
  • MC_SatanMC_Satan Posts: 26,512
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    Were the female Assassins in the MP component of Black Flag just reskins or were they motion capped women?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 565
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    MC_Satan wrote: »
    Were the female Assassins in the MP component of Black Flag just reskins or were they motion capped women?

    Thats a good point, by the excuse given in the link it would have been reskin of the original models used in game play, I cant comment as I never played as a female player.

    Has anyone else noticed any difference between male and female multiplayer characters in black flag?

    I think alot of that is just excuses as I cna see why you would need different animations for certain things but for the vast majority you would use the same animation such as climbing / guns/ running / sword - hidden blade / etc.

    I dont buy the "all the cut scenes would look wrong as there is a height difference"...wait so all women are 5ft nothing then back in the animus???

    Pre rendered scenes would be a problem but I would also argue that unless every scene is nothing but "talking heads" then it wont be much of a problem at all.

    I dont know, maybe thinking about this far too much and we have to keep in mind these choices are made at least three years ago and would be difficult to change now with the games release only a few months away.
  • tombigbeetombigbee Posts: 4,639
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    I'm not a game developer but they have years to make these games and they don't have time to make a female character? Just seems a bit odd to me. Personally I think it'd make a refreshing change to have an AC game with just one female main character.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,813
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    tombigbee wrote: »
    I'm not a game developer but they have years to make these games and they don't have time to make a female character? Just seems a bit odd to me. Personally I think it'd make a refreshing change to have an AC game with just one female main character.

    Liberation?
  • MC_SatanMC_Satan Posts: 26,512
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    I am curious as to which historical characters will be in the game. King and Queen , Robespierre for starters I imagine. Any other suggestions?
    On the female thing Jean Paul Marat was historically assassinated by a woman. In the bath IIRC.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 565
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    thomas2400 wrote: »
    Liberation?

    Come on, can we really say liberation was a true AC game?

    I felt the clothes changing mechanic was poor at best and made Avaline look weak when compared to other AC main characters.

    The missions were short, uninteresting and repetative (even more so than AC3 which is what the game was based off!)

    I know it was just a vita game and so had limitations but still feel that this was a missed chance at creating an interesting female character.
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