My mum is hugely intelligent and Quantum Leap baffled the hell out of her no matter how simple the bloody concept. She just couldn't get that we were seeing Sam but they were seeing whoever he was being-sigh, it still haunts me.:D So I guess the swapping faces confusion makes sense to me.
Hehe, I lived with someone at uni that was very intelligent. But no matter how it was explained and the amount of times she watched it she just could not get the film Face/Off.
The whole face swap between the two just got her very confused as to who was who.
Come on. When ever you have to preface something with don't take this as an insult- you really should think long and hard about what follows that statement.
Sometimes it's not about being clever, it's about familiarity with narrative styles, similar shows, the genre in general, and those of us that are fans of sci fi in general often make intuitive leaps and fill in gaps that others don't have similar experience with. That doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed, just that concepts aren't as obvious if they are completely new to a viewer. Yes I know regeneration is familiar but not in another character normally and not usually as someone entirely new into someone old! If that makes sense?
I would have automatically assumed that anyone who regularly watched a sci-fi show like Doctor Who was a fan of Sci-Fi and would be familiar with the conventions of the genre and how it works. Apparently not.
Sorry, I just don't understand people who don't understand Sci-Fi. And I don't understand people who claim to be Doctor Who fans but seem to understand little or nothing about Doctor Who.
One of my friends wrote on Facebook that she was confused by the episode and says it 'didn't make sense' - I seriously don't understand what in it doesn't make sense to her We've both watched every episode since 2005 and she's enjoyed every other Moffat-helmed episode.
I would have automatically assumed that anyone who regularly watched a sci-fi show like Doctor Who was a fan of sci-fi and would be familiar with the conventions of the genre and how it works. Apparently not.
Sorry, I just don't understand people who don't understand sci-fi.
Well that's fair enough, but maybe I do, because my mum is a huge sci fi fan and has no idea she is one.:D
I know kids who call Doctor Who magic. They don't view it in terms of genre. I know its weird, but they just see aliens and time travel as spacey and magic. So I pity parents having to unravel it who are not fans of the genre in general. They probably take notes and heaven help them if they rootle around here for answers!! .:D
I don't think it was complicated at all, it made complete sense to me and even if it didn't make complete sense to some people, it was still a great episode. I was watching with my sister who hasn't watched alot of Doctor Who and after explaining a few things she enjoyed it alot, I was also watching with my 3 year old nephew who was completly transfixed, which was very out of character.
For the first time ever my 8 year old was completely confused by LKH. His first comment was that he needed to watch it again to understand, which he did and then got it on the second viewing.
He has now gone back to the eleventh hour and started all over again with Doc 11 as he is insistent that he has missed things.
My point is young or old we all miss things especially when the episode is moving as quickly as LKH, If you're confused by any episodes just re-watch. You will absorb so much more information the second time.
I don't think it was complicated at all, it made complete sense to me and even if it didn't make complete sense to some people, it was still a great episode. I was watching with my sister who hasn't watched alot of Doctor Who and after explaining a few things she enjoyed it alot, I was also watching with my 3 year old nephew who was completly transfixed, which was very out of character.
I loved the episode, and understood it too-I just don't begrudge those who didn't having that opinion.
It shouldn't be seen as a bad thing that you can get more out of it by watching more than once. Where would all our childhoods be if we didn't watch our favourite movies again and again until the tape (or disc) wore out?
If you actually stop and think about the content of the episode, it does kind of veer wildly from the sublime to the ridiculous.
From a twenty something couple with a 40 something daughter who is actually not 40 something who is actually her mums best mate, and she can regenerate, like the doctor. And she's part of the gang, NO WAIT she's trying to kill the doctor.
So he's going to die, like actually die, I know he can usually regenerate, but he can't today, why? look he just can't ok. (Did he not die at the start of the series like actually die?, lets just put that to one side for now). Now he's not dead because River/Mel did something magic with regeneration energy (Whats regeneration energy? Well timelords use it to fix themselves when they die. Oh So river/mel is a timelord? No she's human. Oh but the doctor is a timelord and he can't regenerate..... Er, yes, its all very clever just go with it) and she's not evil now, except she might be evil, or she might be sassy we don't really know.
Oh yeh and hitler was there, but he's in a cupboard SO ITS OK.
And the timemachine come robot with tiny people, well they might actually be normal size people who had been shot with a de-bigulator ray.
Lets be honest here, Doctor Who is, and always has been, a load of old nonsense.
It's frequently funny, dramatic, emotional, clever, surprising, even life-affirming at times, but it's still, when all's said and done, a load of old nonsense. And I for one love it for that and wouldn't want it any other way.
Some people on here take the show way too seriously IMO, it's saturday night, family entertainment of the highest order and should be cherished, faults and all.
Lets be honest here, Doctor Who is, and always has been, a load of old nonsense.
It's frequently funny, dramatic, emotional, clever, surprising, even life-affirming at times, but it's still, when all's said and done, a load of old nonsense. And I for one love it for that and wouldn't want it any other way.
Some people on here take the show way too seriously IMO, it's saturday night, family entertainment of the highest order and should be cherished, faults and all.
I agree - its always had its silly moments and thats what makes it so good and it wouldn't be the Doctor Who we know and love if it was any other way.
If you actually stop and think about the content of the episode, it does kind of veer wildly from the sublime to the ridiculous.
From a twenty something couple with a 40 something daughter who is actually not 40 something who is actually her mums best mate, and she can regenerate, like the doctor. And she's part of the gang, NO WAIT she's trying to kill the doctor.
So he's going to die, like actually die, I know he can usually regenerate, but he can't today, why? look he just can't ok. (Did he not die at the start of the series like actually die?, lets just put that to one side for now). Now he's not dead because River/Mel did something magic with regeneration energy (Whats regeneration energy? Well timelords use it to fix themselves when they die. Oh So river/mel is a timelord? No she's human. Oh but the doctor is a timelord and he can't regenerate..... Er, yes, its all very clever just go with it) and she's not evil now, except she might be evil, or she might be sassy we don't really know.
Oh yeh and hitler was there, but he's in a cupboard SO ITS OK.
And the timemachine come robot with tiny people, well they might actually be normal size people who had been shot with a de-bigulator ray.
But yeh, its all TOTALLY straightforward guys.
Thing is, all those things are explained in easy to understand terms throughout. You're muddying it by stating it like that. Hardly anybody watching would only have watched that episode.
Also, people claiming to not understand are probably confusing the answers given with the new questions arising. The point is, there were endings of arcs - fully explained over a few episodes - and beginnings of arcs - which are obviously not answered yet.
Knowing the difference between the two shouldn't need genius IQ. And SM hasn't made it that you do.
If you actually stop and think about the content of the episode, it does kind of veer wildly from the sublime to the ridiculous.
ok...
From a twenty something couple with a 40 something daughter who is actually not 40 something who is actually her mums best mate, and she can regenerate, like the doctor. And she's part of the gang, NO WAIT she's trying to kill the doctor.
A baby was born who was kidnapped as the enemy saw her as a weapon. Despite being a psychopath she naturally wants to be raised by her parents and does so pretending to be their friend. She grows up with them and uses this as an opportunity to do what she was made for and kill the Doctor. Yet seeing how much her parents love him and seeing how much he loves them makes her see things in a different way and despite what has happened she learns to love him also and goes on to have adventues with him until the last meeting with him in The silence of the library where she scarifices herself as she knows how important he is to the world. There has been more far fetched scenarios throughout the realms of sci-fi.
So he's going to die, like actually die, I know he can usually regenerate, but he can't today, why? look he just can't ok. (Did he not die at the start of the series like actually die?, lets just put that to one side for now). Now he's not dead because River/Mel did something magic with regeneration energy (Whats regeneration energy? Well timelords use it to fix themselves when they die. Oh So river/mel is a timelord? No she's human. Oh but the doctor is a timelord and he can't regenerate..... Er, yes, its all very clever just go with it) and she's not evil now, except she might be evil, or she might be sassy we don't really know.
He was never meant to die in this time. He was always meant to be saved by river through regeneration transfer which has grounded history within who mythology.
Oh yeh and hitler was there, but he's in a cupboard SO ITS OK.
They cannot mess around too much with Hitler as the world wars I am presuming are fixed points in time.
And the timemachine come robot with tiny people, well they might actually be normal size people who had been shot with a de-bigulator ray.
They are normal size. The robot is actually an advanced form of ship. Come on we have the tardis which is bigger on the inside than out.... Why is this so far fetched in comparison?
Out of interest, does anyone who thinks Doctor Who is too complicated/confusing like the film Inception?
That was pretty complicated film, but I loved it.
Lets be honest here, Doctor Who is, and always has been, a load of old nonsense.
It's frequently funny, dramatic, emotional, clever, surprising, even life-affirming at times, but it's still, when all's said and done, a load of old nonsense. And I for one love it for that and wouldn't want it any other way.
Some people on here take the show way too seriously IMO, it's saturday night, family entertainment of the highest order and should be cherished, faults and all.
I agree. I love it. I haven't got a degree in it!!:D
Then you were never a real fan in the first place, good riddence, leave DW to people who are intelligent enough to appreciate it, as the MAJORITY are.
My five year old understood this episode better than you did, think about that
Is there any need to be so rude? My mate doesn't understand it and he is a Doctor and is much smarter than me and I understand it. To be honest this series has been a load of nonsence anyway.
I do agree but it gets so amazingly tiresome when there is a new thread everyday by people claiming it's too complicated for them, when in reality they just haven't paid enough attention to things that were going on in the episode.
I paid a lot of attention to Day of the Moon and it still took a rewatch to even begin to understand most of. It wasnt that the plot was particularly complicated it was to do with the way it was told. An immediate jump in time, everyone talking at 100 miles an hour, quick flashing from one scene to the next, several rather irrelevant ones that werent there to advance the narrative but look cool. I wish people would not be so harsh on people who struggle with some of this. Given the way some of the episodes are not presented it is hardly surprising.
Lets be honest here, Doctor Who is, and always has been, a load of old nonsense.
It's frequently funny, dramatic, emotional, clever, surprising, even life-affirming at times, but it's still, when all's said and done, a load of old nonsense. And I for one love it for that and wouldn't want it any other way.
Some people on here take the show way too seriously IMO, it's saturday night, family entertainment of the highest order and should be cherished, faults and all.
I agree, no one really can expect someone to fly through time to places that never exist and even aliens speak word perfect English or for Daleks to roam through the middle of London. However, if you want something approximating real life, you can always try a soap, but hang on aren't they a bit of a fantasy as well.
This is why we need DW, Torchwood, etc, they are fantasies millions can enjoy well.
What annoys me is people saying that "re-watching it" it'll all make sense!
WHY re-watch it? Surely it should make sense first-time round? (Unless you are posting on the computer at the same time - which annoys me)
I only re-watch programmes that I particularly enjoyed first time around.
There was no chance in the early days of "re-watching"! We just sat and enjoyed it:):rolleyes:
Comments
Hehe, I lived with someone at uni that was very intelligent. But no matter how it was explained and the amount of times she watched it she just could not get the film Face/Off.
The whole face swap between the two just got her very confused as to who was who.
I would have automatically assumed that anyone who regularly watched a sci-fi show like Doctor Who was a fan of Sci-Fi and would be familiar with the conventions of the genre and how it works. Apparently not.
Sorry, I just don't understand people who don't understand Sci-Fi. And I don't understand people who claim to be Doctor Who fans but seem to understand little or nothing about Doctor Who.
Well that's fair enough, but maybe I do, because my mum is a huge sci fi fan and has no idea she is one.:D
I know kids who call Doctor Who magic. They don't view it in terms of genre. I know its weird, but they just see aliens and time travel as spacey and magic. So I pity parents having to unravel it who are not fans of the genre in general. They probably take notes and heaven help them if they rootle around here for answers!! .:D
He has now gone back to the eleventh hour and started all over again with Doc 11 as he is insistent that he has missed things.
My point is young or old we all miss things especially when the episode is moving as quickly as LKH, If you're confused by any episodes just re-watch. You will absorb so much more information the second time.
I loved the episode, and understood it too-I just don't begrudge those who didn't having that opinion.
From a twenty something couple with a 40 something daughter who is actually not 40 something who is actually her mums best mate, and she can regenerate, like the doctor. And she's part of the gang, NO WAIT she's trying to kill the doctor.
So he's going to die, like actually die, I know he can usually regenerate, but he can't today, why? look he just can't ok. (Did he not die at the start of the series like actually die?, lets just put that to one side for now). Now he's not dead because River/Mel did something magic with regeneration energy (Whats regeneration energy? Well timelords use it to fix themselves when they die. Oh So river/mel is a timelord? No she's human. Oh but the doctor is a timelord and he can't regenerate..... Er, yes, its all very clever just go with it) and she's not evil now, except she might be evil, or she might be sassy we don't really know.
Oh yeh and hitler was there, but he's in a cupboard SO ITS OK.
And the timemachine come robot with tiny people, well they might actually be normal size people who had been shot with a de-bigulator ray.
But yeh, its all TOTALLY straightforward guys.
It's frequently funny, dramatic, emotional, clever, surprising, even life-affirming at times, but it's still, when all's said and done, a load of old nonsense. And I for one love it for that and wouldn't want it any other way.
Some people on here take the show way too seriously IMO, it's saturday night, family entertainment of the highest order and should be cherished, faults and all.
I agree - its always had its silly moments and thats what makes it so good and it wouldn't be the Doctor Who we know and love if it was any other way.
Thing is, all those things are explained in easy to understand terms throughout. You're muddying it by stating it like that. Hardly anybody watching would only have watched that episode.
Also, people claiming to not understand are probably confusing the answers given with the new questions arising. The point is, there were endings of arcs - fully explained over a few episodes - and beginnings of arcs - which are obviously not answered yet.
Knowing the difference between the two shouldn't need genius IQ. And SM hasn't made it that you do.
ok...
A baby was born who was kidnapped as the enemy saw her as a weapon. Despite being a psychopath she naturally wants to be raised by her parents and does so pretending to be their friend. She grows up with them and uses this as an opportunity to do what she was made for and kill the Doctor. Yet seeing how much her parents love him and seeing how much he loves them makes her see things in a different way and despite what has happened she learns to love him also and goes on to have adventues with him until the last meeting with him in The silence of the library where she scarifices herself as she knows how important he is to the world. There has been more far fetched scenarios throughout the realms of sci-fi.
He was never meant to die in this time. He was always meant to be saved by river through regeneration transfer which has grounded history within who mythology.
They cannot mess around too much with Hitler as the world wars I am presuming are fixed points in time.
They are normal size. The robot is actually an advanced form of ship. Come on we have the tardis which is bigger on the inside than out.... Why is this so far fetched in comparison?
.
Indeed it is!
That was pretty complicated film, but I loved it.
I agree. I love it. I haven't got a degree in it!!:D
Is there any need to be so rude? My mate doesn't understand it and he is a Doctor and is much smarter than me and I understand it. To be honest this series has been a load of nonsence anyway.
I paid a lot of attention to Day of the Moon and it still took a rewatch to even begin to understand most of. It wasnt that the plot was particularly complicated it was to do with the way it was told. An immediate jump in time, everyone talking at 100 miles an hour, quick flashing from one scene to the next, several rather irrelevant ones that werent there to advance the narrative but look cool. I wish people would not be so harsh on people who struggle with some of this. Given the way some of the episodes are not presented it is hardly surprising.
I agree, no one really can expect someone to fly through time to places that never exist and even aliens speak word perfect English or for Daleks to roam through the middle of London. However, if you want something approximating real life, you can always try a soap, but hang on aren't they a bit of a fantasy as well.
This is why we need DW, Torchwood, etc, they are fantasies millions can enjoy well.
WHY re-watch it? Surely it should make sense first-time round? (Unless you are posting on the computer at the same time - which annoys me)
I only re-watch programmes that I particularly enjoyed first time around.
There was no chance in the early days of "re-watching"! We just sat and enjoyed it:):rolleyes: