Moffat's Who is neither difficult, nor complicated. I always have lots of questions because he has lots of excellent ideas, but is relatively lax when it comes to tying up loose ends. I don't just mean the many unresolved issues around the arcs, eg. who blew up the TARDIS(!!!) In most episodes one-off things happen that are rather silly. He hasn't yet had a magic potion to revive a Time Lord,though. I enjoy it, but it isn't precise story telling.
Moffat's Who is very easy to understand for anyone who bothers to listen to the dialogue. The issue seems to be that a lot of people don't like dialogue-heavy television.
Ok so am I the only person who's not had any problem understanding everything since Moffat took over? It certainly seems like everyone has been confused at some point or another more than they are supposed to be :rolleyes:
Moffat's Who is very easy to understand for anyone who bothers to listen to the dialogue. The issue seems to be that a lot of people don't like dialogue-heavy television.
How nice to find people who understand everything!
Perhaps you can tell me to my satisfaction (because no one else has so far been able to.
1. How the Earth evolved in exactly the same way in TBB even though there were no stars.
2. How did River get to the wedding?
3. How exactly did remembering the Doctor bring him back from the other side of the cracks.
5. How did the reboot actually work?
6. Who blew up the Tardis? How do you know who it was?
That's without explaining how the time paradox worked, because, of course, it doesn't.
Then
7. In TWoRS how come a society with no time still had clocks?
That'll do for starters. I'll think up some more later.:D
That is what i mean. I watched the entire episode and i struggled to understand it all
I found the episode to be a bit confusing too. And not as exciting as people said it was going to be. In another thread at the beginning of the week, I said the episode was quite average really.
But at the end, when John Hurt appeared, my Father reckoned that he was an older version of the 11th Doctor. He thinks that what the current Doctor was seeing, was a future version of himself, with all his regenerations taken away, and with only one heart. All John Hurt's 'older' version of the current Doctor can do is age and not change in any way.
So, this means that in the Special, the current Doctor, with the help of the Tennant Doctor and Rose, must try to stop whatever it is that took away his regenerations and made him older. But, he has the Zygons to deal with. Plus there is a rumour that the Daleks will be appearing too.
I still think JH's character is the Valeyard. According to Trial Of A Time Lord back in 1986, he's an evil version of the Doctor, between his 12th and 13th incarnations.
How nice to find people who understand everything!
Understanding everything that has been shown on screen is different from knowing everything that hasn't been shown.
When people say they understand Who fine, I take them to mean 'everything that was explained was explained sufficiently clearly; everything that wasn't explained was sufficiently tangential to the narrative arc'.
Obviously it's a question of measure and degree — nobody ever says e.g. that An Unearthly Child doesn't make sense because we don't know how Susan enrolled at school, or how Ian and Barbara got to the car from the classroom, because those are unambiguously irrelevant details. I guess the real dispute is whether Moffatt has a firm understanding of what needs to be an effect and what can merely be a cause for satisfying television.
How nice to find people who understand everything!
Perhaps you can tell me to my satisfaction (because no one else has so far been able to.
1. How the Earth evolved in exactly the same way in TBB even though there were no stars.
2. How did River get to the wedding?
3. How exactly did remembering the Doctor bring him back from the other side of the cracks.
5. How did the reboot actually work?
6. Who blew up the Tardis? How do you know who it was?
That's without explaining how the time paradox worked, because, of course, it doesn't.
Then
7. In TWoRS how come a society with no time still had clocks?
That'll do for starters. I'll think up some more later.:D
Ok, we don't have to know every little detail and in fact the mathematics required to understand the science behind some of your questions. That is to say that there are some facts behind the fiction which I won't go in to.
Anyway in answer to your questions:
1) The universe had echos of our reality and Amelia remembered them because she grew up with the crack in her room.
2) I haven't seen the episode recently but I believe it was via the vortex manipulator (remember she is a time traveler herself).
3) Wibbly wobbly timey wimey.
5) The Pandorica going into the exploding Tardis was enough to reset the universe lets just leave it at that.
6) The Silence. It is strongly hinted at through out series 6 in particular and apparently somewhere Moffat has confirmed this.
7) Again I would refer you to my answer to 1) except it was for different reasons. Most people accepted it even though it seemed odd - out of place even (as expressed by Churchill).
What I'm getting at though really is if you are going to accept a time travel show you just have to take somethings at face value though I have tried to explain it a bit but trust me just take it at face value and enjoy the show for what it is
How nice to find people who understand everything!
Perhaps you can tell me to my satisfaction (because no one else has so far been able to.
1. How the Earth evolved in exactly the same way in TBB even though there were no stars.
2. How did River get to the wedding?
3. How exactly did remembering the Doctor bring him back from the other side of the cracks.
5. How did the reboot actually work?
6. Who blew up the Tardis? How do you know who it was?
That's without explaining how the time paradox worked, because, of course, it doesn't.
Then
7. In TWoRS how come a society with no time still had clocks?
That'll do for starters. I'll think up some more later.:D
1) Artistic license
2) Artistic license
3) Artistic license
If you try hard to remember 4) it might also come back
5) Artistic license
6) Artistic license
7) Artistic license
1) Artistic license
2) Artistic license
3) Artistic license
If you try hard to remember 4) it might also come back
5) Artistic license
6) Artistic license
7) Artistic license
Perhaps you can tell me to my satisfaction (because no one else has so far been able to.
Well, certainly many people have explained them. Perhaps the problem is in your satisfaction?
Seriously though, when you actually think about it - and for that matter, when you read the threads around here - 'Name' is every bit as illogical, bat-crazy, timey-wimey and requiring of explanation as its predecessors. I'm genuinely surprised that you liked it.
Well, certainly many people have explained them. Perhaps the problem is in your satisfaction?
Seriously though, when you actually think about it - and for that matter, when you read the threads around here - 'Name' is every bit as illogical, bat-crazy, timey-wimey and requiring of explanation as its predecessors. I'm genuinely surprised that you liked it.
I love all those things.:D
Really, that was my point. How can people find it hard to understand Name when they understand the others I mentioned? It's no more complicated or impossible than them.
(No universe re-booting was involved, however. Or magic remembering.)
2) I haven't seen the episode recently but I believe it was via the vortex manipulator (remember she is a time traveler herself).
I think Granny's point is if The Doctor had never existed, River would not be in possession of said Vortex Manipulator. Then of course you've also the slight problem of if The Doctor had never existed, Melody Pond would never have been conceived in the Time Vortex and so would never have regenerated into River Song...
I think Granny's point is if The Doctor had never existed, River would not be in possession of said Vortex Manipulator. Then of course you've also the slight problem of if The Doctor had never existed, Melody Pond would never have been conceived in the Time Vortex and so would never have regenerated into River Song...
No, I never thought of that, I'm not that clever, but good point!
While we're on the subject of not making sense, I was never quite sure why the Tesselecta Doctor which "died" at Lake Silencio was able to imitate the Doctor so convincingly when every other time it moved really robotically. Also, how was it able to produce regeneration energy?
Do we just have to assume that the Doctor could drive the thing better than the actual crew?
I think Granny's point is if The Doctor had never existed, River would not be in possession of said Vortex Manipulator. Then of course you've also the slight problem of if The Doctor had never existed, Melody Pond would never have been conceived in the Time Vortex and so would never have regenerated into River Song...
I think Granny's point is if The Doctor had never existed, River would not be in possession of said Vortex Manipulator. Then of course you've also the slight problem of if The Doctor had never existed, Melody Pond would never have been conceived in the Time Vortex and so would never have regenerated into River Song...
If the Doctor had never existed, Sutekh would have destroyed the planet in the early 20th century and neither Amy nor Rory would have existed.
In any case the logic doesn't hold up. You're asserting "if not A then not B" and from that saying that things therefore 'don't make sense anymore' when both B and A are true.
While we're on the subject of not making sense, I was never quite sure why the Tesselecta Doctor which "died" at Lake Silencio was able to imitate the Doctor so convincingly when every other time it moved really robotically. Also, how was it able to produce regeneration energy?
Do we just have to assume that the Doctor could drive the thing better than the actual crew?
It was moving more naturally immediately before the Doctor borrowed it - when it was in the form of that Father Gideon bloke (the monk with an eyepatch), and the Doctor did say to the Captain that it had been a long time since Berlin, so perhaps it had been upgraded in the meantime with a more realistic walking mechanism.
Or indeed, the Doctor being the Doctor, no reason he couldn't have improved it himself to make it walk and talk exactly like him.
As for the regeneration energy, Steven Moffat has said that considering everything else it can do, "a bit of a light show" shouldn't have been too difficult!
If the Doctor had never existed, Sutekh would have destroyed the planet in the early 20th century and neither Amy nor Rory would have existed.
In any case the logic doesn't hold up. You're asserting "if not A then not B" and from that saying that things therefore 'don't make sense anymore' when both B and A are true.
Well I don't know about Doctor Who not making sense anymore but I'm totally at a loss when it comes to your last paragraph...
Here are some more for you, Granny;
2. In "Journeys End" why do the Daleks believe they can "shelter" from a bomb that turns every molecule in the Universe to atoms ?
I like threads like this, the most common complaints about Doctor Who these days are either "It's too complicated and confusing" and "It's too simple and written for kids", you just have to flip a coin to see which one will be brought up today.
I like threads like this, the most common complaints about Doctor Who these days are either "It's too complicated and confusing" and "It's too simple and written for kids", you just have to flip a coin to see which one will be brought up today.
You know, I've always thought that that's absolutely prime evidence of how they're getting things right. No matter whether you like your sci-fi serious or juvenile, there's something for you - you just have to allow the other half to pass over your head.
I found the episode to be a bit confusing too. And not as exciting as people said it was going to be. In another thread at the beginning of the week, I said the episode was quite average really.
But at the end, when John Hurt appeared, my Father reckoned that he was an older version of the 11th Doctor. He thinks that what the current Doctor was seeing, was a future version of himself, with all his regenerations taken away, and with only one heart. All John Hurt's 'older' version of the current Doctor can do is age and not change in any way.
So, this means that in the Special, the current Doctor, with the help of the Tennant Doctor and Rose, must try to stop whatever it is that took away his regenerations and made him older. But, he has the Zygons to deal with. Plus there is a rumour that the Daleks will be appearing too.
I still think JH's character is the Valeyard. According to Trial Of A Time Lord back in 1986, he's an evil version of the Doctor, between his 12th and 13th incarnations.
I didn't find it too exciting either. I do agree with your dad,that idea makes sense but i bet it will be something stupid
Comments
I have to agree.
How nice to find people who understand everything!
Perhaps you can tell me to my satisfaction (because no one else has so far been able to.
1. How the Earth evolved in exactly the same way in TBB even though there were no stars.
2. How did River get to the wedding?
3. How exactly did remembering the Doctor bring him back from the other side of the cracks.
5. How did the reboot actually work?
6. Who blew up the Tardis? How do you know who it was?
That's without explaining how the time paradox worked, because, of course, it doesn't.
Then
7. In TWoRS how come a society with no time still had clocks?
That'll do for starters. I'll think up some more later.:D
I found the episode to be a bit confusing too. And not as exciting as people said it was going to be.
But at the end, when John Hurt appeared, my Father reckoned that he was an older version of the 11th Doctor. He thinks that what the current Doctor was seeing, was a future version of himself, with all his regenerations taken away, and with only one heart. All John Hurt's 'older' version of the current Doctor can do is age and not change in any way.
So, this means that in the Special, the current Doctor, with the help of the Tennant Doctor and Rose, must try to stop whatever it is that took away his regenerations and made him older. But, he has the Zygons to deal with. Plus there is a rumour that the Daleks will be appearing too.
I still think JH's character is the Valeyard. According to Trial Of A Time Lord back in 1986, he's an evil version of the Doctor, between his 12th and 13th incarnations.
Understanding everything that has been shown on screen is different from knowing everything that hasn't been shown.
When people say they understand Who fine, I take them to mean 'everything that was explained was explained sufficiently clearly; everything that wasn't explained was sufficiently tangential to the narrative arc'.
Obviously it's a question of measure and degree — nobody ever says e.g. that An Unearthly Child doesn't make sense because we don't know how Susan enrolled at school, or how Ian and Barbara got to the car from the classroom, because those are unambiguously irrelevant details. I guess the real dispute is whether Moffatt has a firm understanding of what needs to be an effect and what can merely be a cause for satisfying television.
Ok, we don't have to know every little detail and in fact the mathematics required to understand the science behind some of your questions. That is to say that there are some facts behind the fiction which I won't go in to.
Anyway in answer to your questions:
1) The universe had echos of our reality and Amelia remembered them because she grew up with the crack in her room.
2) I haven't seen the episode recently but I believe it was via the vortex manipulator (remember she is a time traveler herself).
3) Wibbly wobbly timey wimey.
5) The Pandorica going into the exploding Tardis was enough to reset the universe lets just leave it at that.
6) The Silence. It is strongly hinted at through out series 6 in particular and apparently somewhere Moffat has confirmed this.
7) Again I would refer you to my answer to 1) except it was for different reasons. Most people accepted it even though it seemed odd - out of place even (as expressed by Churchill).
What I'm getting at though really is if you are going to accept a time travel show you just have to take somethings at face value though I have tried to explain it a bit but trust me just take it at face value and enjoy the show for what it is
1) Artistic license
2) Artistic license
3) Artistic license
If you try hard to remember 4) it might also come back
5) Artistic license
6) Artistic license
7) Artistic license
Here are some more for you, Granny;
1. In "Stolen Earth" why does planet Earth not freeze to 0Kelvin when in it is moved to the Medusa Cascade?
2. In "Journeys End" why do the Daleks believe they can "shelter" from a bomb that turns every molecule in the Universe to atoms ?
3. In "Journeys End" where does the sunlight come from when the TARDIS tows the Earth back to our Sun ?
4. In "Midnight" why does ejecting Sky Silvestre actually achieve anything ?
That's more like it!:D
(I think 4 fell into the vortex.
Well, certainly many people have explained them. Perhaps the problem is in your satisfaction?
Seriously though, when you actually think about it - and for that matter, when you read the threads around here - 'Name' is every bit as illogical, bat-crazy, timey-wimey and requiring of explanation as its predecessors. I'm genuinely surprised that you liked it.
I love all those things.:D
Really, that was my point. How can people find it hard to understand Name when they understand the others I mentioned? It's no more complicated or impossible than them.
(No universe re-booting was involved, however. Or magic remembering.)
I think Granny's point is if The Doctor had never existed, River would not be in possession of said Vortex Manipulator. Then of course you've also the slight problem of if The Doctor had never existed, Melody Pond would never have been conceived in the Time Vortex and so would never have regenerated into River Song...
No, I never thought of that, I'm not that clever, but good point!
Do we just have to assume that the Doctor could drive the thing better than the actual crew?
Give me strength! :eek:
If the Doctor had never existed, Sutekh would have destroyed the planet in the early 20th century and neither Amy nor Rory would have existed.
In any case the logic doesn't hold up. You're asserting "if not A then not B" and from that saying that things therefore 'don't make sense anymore' when both B and A are true.
Or indeed, the Doctor being the Doctor, no reason he couldn't have improved it himself to make it walk and talk exactly like him.
As for the regeneration energy, Steven Moffat has said that considering everything else it can do, "a bit of a light show" shouldn't have been too difficult!
A couple of seconds with the sonic screwdriver is all that sort of thing usually requires.
Yup! Am I the only one with a headache after all that?
Well I don't know about Doctor Who not making sense anymore but I'm totally at a loss when it comes to your last paragraph...
Sure. Do you have a forwarding address I can send it to?
Because Davros told them so and they're nuts.
Telepathic link to the Tardis gave it something to home on to.
You know, I've always thought that that's absolutely prime evidence of how they're getting things right. No matter whether you like your sci-fi serious or juvenile, there's something for you - you just have to allow the other half to pass over your head.
I didn't find it too exciting either. I do agree with your dad,that idea makes sense but i bet it will be something stupid