The only places for religion is at home or a place or a place of worship as they would be good for all
parents as then only the parents that want there kids religious would have there kids around religion. And what wrong in not wanting your kids around religuion.
His children attended the local Catholic school near to mine. Of course it had nothing to do with the local non faith schools being majority ethnic minority with English somewhere down the scale as being important to learn.
Oh no sir'ee.
Typical Blair, chose a state catholic school for his children. The only reason he did not send them to a posh private because he was a labour prime minister. It was their education policy that made way for academies and free schools.:mad:
Typical Blair, chose a state catholic school for his children. The only reason he did not send them to a posh private because he was a labour prime minister. It was their education policy that made way for academies and free schools.:mad:
Ofcourse, the oh so demure and reticent Mrs Blair (born and raised catholic), had no say whatever about the education of her catholic children........
it up to the parents if they want there kids to know and lean about religion and it should not up to christians or any other religion or the government if .kids lean about religion.why do some think its not up to the parents
Unlike taking part in collective worship wish I think parents should be able to have their children excluded if they wish. Even though it deprives children of experience what religion is like for themselves by getting to take part in the activity.
I think learning about religion should be required regardless of the parent's wishes. Religion is part of our society and has shaped our nation's history, culture and values. Not learning about religion is like not learning about history, literature, music, art, drama or any of the humanities. Education should be more than just maths and science.
The only places for religion is at home or a place or a place of worship as they would be good for all parents as then only the parents that want there kids religious would have there kids around religion. And what wrong in not wanting your kids around religuion.
Take away what you can still have religion in place of worship or home. So you still can have a religion.
If imposed upon society it would be a violation of fundemental indivisible human rights.
The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights
Article 2: ...without distinction of any kind, such as... religion
Article 18: Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance
Article 26: (2) Education...It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all... religious groups... (3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children
European Convention of Human Rights.
Article 9: ...in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance...
The freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
If imposed upon society it would be a violation of fundemental indivisible human rights.
The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights
Article 2: ...without distinction of any kind, such as... religion
Article 18: Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance
Article 26: (2) Education...It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all... religious groups... (3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children
European Convention of Human Rights.
Article 9: ...in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance...
The freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
How does a child of 3 or 4 or 5 express this freedom if they are being brought up to worship in one particular faith?
Surely this refers to an age where the individual has the power to reason for themselves, not to have their parents religious beliefs rammed down their throats before they can thus reason? How can a 3 year old choose (if any) a religion?
Saudi writer Abdullah Mohammed Al Dawood has urged his 97,000 Twitter followers to molest women hired to work as cashiers in big grocery stores in an attempt to "encourage" women to stay at home.
I think learning about religion should be required regardless of the parent's wishes. Religion is part of our society and has shaped our nation's history, culture and values. Not learning about religion is like not learning about history, literature, music, art, drama or any of the humanities. Education should be more than just maths and science.
I would go further and say that it is impossible to have a proper education in the subjects you mention without reference to religion as a force for good and bad.
Just as those brought up with creationism need to hear about evolution sometimes a proper education will tread on parents toes byhelping children to think for themselves
I often wonder why some anti religious people are so intimidated by religious thought that they want to make sure they never get exposed to it
I would go further and say that it is impossible to have a proper education in the subjects you mention without reference to religion as a force for good and bad.
Just as those brought up with creationism need to hear about evolution sometimes a proper education will tread on parents toes byhelping children to think for themselves
I often wonder why some anti religious people are so intimidated by religious thought that they want to make sure they never get exposed to it
Free thinkers always regard truth as provisional.
There is an RC school near me whose front gate sign says "a specialist science college". It 's a maintained school and not an academy either, so they can't choose their curriculum. Presumably they can't avoid mention of evolution during biology lessons. So it can and does work both ways.
Unlike taking part in collective worship wish I think parents should be able to have their children excluded if they wish. Even though it deprives children of experience what religion is like for themselves by getting to take part in the activity.
I think learning about religion should be required regardless of the parent's wishes. Religion is part of our society and has shaped our nation's history, culture and values. Not learning about religion is like not learning about history, literature, music, art, drama or any of the humanities. Education should be more than just maths and science.
What, exactly, do you mean by the BIB? That young, impressionable children should end up speaking in tongues, or believing in spiritual healing or something? Very sinister, but no more than I expect from the indoctrination mob who are incapable of seeing into their bubble from outside.
Of course kids should learn about religion. The should not be taught from a religious angle - not in any way, shape, or form and there should certainly be no symbolism in schools. Currently, faith schools are dripping with them.
What, exactly, do you mean by the BIB? That young, impressionable children should end up speaking in tongues, or believing in spiritual healing or something? Very sinister, but no more than I expect from the indoctrination mob who are incapable of seeing into their bubble from outside.
Of course kids should learn about religion. The should not be taught from a religious angle - not in any way, shape, or form and there should certainly be no symbolism in schools. Currently, faith schools are dripping with them.
I've never heard of anyone be in an environment where they may be enabled to speak in tongues outside of a Pentecostal church, though I'm happy to stand corrected.
We are bludgeoned into accepting it as part of the wonderous multicultural experiment, shifted into top gear by the last Labour government, but I would like to know what Islam brings to the table of a country that has gone through a rapid change in the past 4 decades. What does it contribute to the progress in empowering women, acceptance of homosexuality and the legitimising of their relationships? Steps to increase animal welfare? General social progression.
I've asked this on other forums to be met with a stony silence.
'Multicultural experiment'? Muslim communities have been living in the UK for at least two centuries. Most Muslim immigrants would have arrived from British colonies too, so perhaps you should blame the 'Empire experiment'?
Also, different Muslims come from different cultures and have different beliefs – just like Christians; they're not all one massive group you can lump together, so it's folly to make such sweeping generalisations about them and their supposedly increasing influence – they make up less than 5% of the population anyhow.
If imposed upon society it would be a violation of fundemental indivisible human rights.
The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights
Article 2: ...without distinction of any kind, such as... religion
Article 18: Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance
Article 26: (2) Education...It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all... religious groups... (3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children
European Convention of Human Rights.
Article 9: ...in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance...
The freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
Absolutely not. No way does any of that obligate the state to permit general education though a religious prism. It certainly protects parents' rights to teach their own children whatever they like. If they wish to hold Bible or Koran classes in leisure time, then that is their prerogative - appalling though I believe it is.
Rather than schools, it's religions (and Islam in particular) who should take note of the part of Article 18: this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief. Still, religion has made the cherry picking of rules an artform, as we all know.
What about an atheist parent's rights? When they are in the position of having to send their kid to church to ensure he is allowed into the local Catholic school? When the alternative choice is appalling? In some areas, there is no choice. THAT is where human rights legislation should apply. Religion gets far, far too much special treatment as it is.
How does a child of 3 or 4 or 5 express this freedom if they are being brought up to worship in one particular faith?
Surely this refers to an age where the individual has the power to reason for themselves, not to have their parents religious beliefs rammed down their throats before they can thus reason? How can a 3 year old choose (if any) a religion?
It is pure conditioning.
Sometimes, just sometimes GCP, you speak such sweet sense
I've never heard of anyone be in an environment where they may be enabled to speak in tongues outside of a Pentecostal church, though I'm happy to stand corrected.
He said children should "experience what religion is like by taking part in it". He wasn't specific about which religion. Maybe they should attend a halal slaughter?
'Multicultural experiment'? Muslim communities have been living in the UK for at least two centuries. Most Muslim immigrants would have arrived from British colonies too, so perhaps you should blame the 'Empire experiment'?
Also, different Muslims come from different cultures and have different beliefs – just like Christians; they're not all one massive group you can lump together, so it's folly to make such sweeping generalisations about them and their supposedly increasing influence – they make up less than 5% of the population anyhow.
Hey! 12 pages before somebody mentioned the Empire!
Firstly, the Muslim population has increased dramatically in my lifetime, so pointing out that a tiny community existed for hundreds of years is of no relevance whatsoever. In the 1960s you would never have seen Halal meat in supermarkets (Tesco: "guaranteed not pre-stunned") nor women in bhurkas. The 5% is growing - over 10% of under 25s consider themselves Muslim, high birth rate and continuing immigration will ensure it.
Anyhow - the thread title was asking how their influence benefits the country - not how much there is.
He said children should "experience what religion is like by taking part in it". He wasn't specific about which religion. Maybe they should attend a halal slaughter?
I would think you'd support that as a deterrent to embracing that particular faith....
That aside, I was asking for clarification about the specific example I gave rather than particularly defending it.
I would think you'd support that as a deterrent to embracing that particular faith....
That aside, I was asking for clarification about the specific example I gave rather than particularly defending it.
Well, I like the Talking Heads album......
Why are you so hung up on this particular issue? I just used it in a metaphorical way - it represents the brainwashing of religion in general - whether it's the rote chanting in maddrassas or the state of delirium achieved in the charismatic churches, or the blind acceptance of the "teachings".
Why are you so hung up on this particular issue? I just used it in a metaphorical way - it represents the brainwashing of religion in general - whether it's the rote chanting in maddrassas or the state of delirium achieved in the charismatic churches, or the blind acceptance of the "teachings".
I'm not hung up on it, it's a personal experience thing so when I saw the example I saw fit to comment/ask a question on it. I was invited to a Sunday school that a friend attended regularly as a kid, I wasn't that keen but just thought it would be interesting to see what she saw in it etc. as she said she found it fun etc (there was a lot of singing and games but of course it was wrapped up in their faith/denomination). I went once and never again. Not because they were speaking in tongues, they only did that at the adult meetings, but just because it wasn't for me. But I have never heard of it outside that environment, so I asked if it was.
Comments
parents as then only the parents that want there kids religious would have there kids around religion. And what wrong in not wanting your kids around religuion.
Take away what you can still have religion in place of worship or home. So you still can have a religion.
Typical Blair, chose a state catholic school for his children. The only reason he did not send them to a posh private because he was a labour prime minister. It was their education policy that made way for academies and free schools.:mad:
Ofcourse, the oh so demure and reticent Mrs Blair (born and raised catholic), had no say whatever about the education of her catholic children........
the right to take your child to a faith school.
I think learning about religion should be required regardless of the parent's wishes. Religion is part of our society and has shaped our nation's history, culture and values. Not learning about religion is like not learning about history, literature, music, art, drama or any of the humanities. Education should be more than just maths and science.
If imposed upon society it would be a violation of fundemental indivisible human rights.
The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights
Article 2: ...without distinction of any kind, such as... religion
Article 18: Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance
Article 26: (2) Education...It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all... religious groups... (3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children
European Convention of Human Rights.
Article 9: ...in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance...
The freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
How does a child of 3 or 4 or 5 express this freedom if they are being brought up to worship in one particular faith?
Surely this refers to an age where the individual has the power to reason for themselves, not to have their parents religious beliefs rammed down their throats before they can thus reason? How can a 3 year old choose (if any) a religion?
It is pure conditioning.
Explain why many other attempts at indoctrination at school have similar success rates.
Something else for the list - Sexual harassment.
What a dangerous man. To think that white British want to convert.:eek: It makes my blood boil when I read such things. :mad:
http://www.examiner.com/article/saudi-cleric-issues-fatwa-demanding-burkas-for-baby-girls
However, I've seen Muslims with Christmas trees
I would go further and say that it is impossible to have a proper education in the subjects you mention without reference to religion as a force for good and bad.
Just as those brought up with creationism need to hear about evolution sometimes a proper education will tread on parents toes byhelping children to think for themselves
I often wonder why some anti religious people are so intimidated by religious thought that they want to make sure they never get exposed to it
Free thinkers always regard truth as provisional.
There is an RC school near me whose front gate sign says "a specialist science college". It 's a maintained school and not an academy either, so they can't choose their curriculum. Presumably they can't avoid mention of evolution during biology lessons. So it can and does work both ways.
What, exactly, do you mean by the BIB? That young, impressionable children should end up speaking in tongues, or believing in spiritual healing or something? Very sinister, but no more than I expect from the indoctrination mob who are incapable of seeing into their bubble from outside.
Of course kids should learn about religion. The should not be taught from a religious angle - not in any way, shape, or form and there should certainly be no symbolism in schools. Currently, faith schools are dripping with them.
I've never heard of anyone be in an environment where they may be enabled to speak in tongues outside of a Pentecostal church, though I'm happy to stand corrected.
'Multicultural experiment'? Muslim communities have been living in the UK for at least two centuries. Most Muslim immigrants would have arrived from British colonies too, so perhaps you should blame the 'Empire experiment'?
Also, different Muslims come from different cultures and have different beliefs – just like Christians; they're not all one massive group you can lump together, so it's folly to make such sweeping generalisations about them and their supposedly increasing influence – they make up less than 5% of the population anyhow.
Absolutely not. No way does any of that obligate the state to permit general education though a religious prism. It certainly protects parents' rights to teach their own children whatever they like. If they wish to hold Bible or Koran classes in leisure time, then that is their prerogative - appalling though I believe it is.
Rather than schools, it's religions (and Islam in particular) who should take note of the part of Article 18: this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief. Still, religion has made the cherry picking of rules an artform, as we all know.
What about an atheist parent's rights? When they are in the position of having to send their kid to church to ensure he is allowed into the local Catholic school? When the alternative choice is appalling? In some areas, there is no choice. THAT is where human rights legislation should apply. Religion gets far, far too much special treatment as it is.
Sometimes, just sometimes GCP, you speak such sweet sense
He said children should "experience what religion is like by taking part in it". He wasn't specific about which religion. Maybe they should attend a halal slaughter?
Hey! 12 pages before somebody mentioned the Empire!
Firstly, the Muslim population has increased dramatically in my lifetime, so pointing out that a tiny community existed for hundreds of years is of no relevance whatsoever. In the 1960s you would never have seen Halal meat in supermarkets (Tesco: "guaranteed not pre-stunned") nor women in bhurkas. The 5% is growing - over 10% of under 25s consider themselves Muslim, high birth rate and continuing immigration will ensure it.
Anyhow - the thread title was asking how their influence benefits the country - not how much there is.
Do you support gay marriage?
I would think you'd support that as a deterrent to embracing that particular faith....
That aside, I was asking for clarification about the specific example I gave rather than particularly defending it.
Well, I like the Talking Heads album......
Why are you so hung up on this particular issue? I just used it in a metaphorical way - it represents the brainwashing of religion in general - whether it's the rote chanting in maddrassas or the state of delirium achieved in the charismatic churches, or the blind acceptance of the "teachings".
I'm not hung up on it, it's a personal experience thing so when I saw the example I saw fit to comment/ask a question on it. I was invited to a Sunday school that a friend attended regularly as a kid, I wasn't that keen but just thought it would be interesting to see what she saw in it etc. as she said she found it fun etc (there was a lot of singing and games but of course it was wrapped up in their faith/denomination). I went once and never again. Not because they were speaking in tongues, they only did that at the adult meetings, but just because it wasn't for me. But I have never heard of it outside that environment, so I asked if it was.