Vettel certainly favourite for the title. However no shoo-in, as today showed how much can happen even if you're minding your own business.
Best policy for the last 2 races would be to ensure that he has enough fuel in the car for qualifying get pole and then run away. Maybe rather easier said than done.
Ahhh what a shame hamilton had to stop again oh well he better get used it, he will be doing a lot nil point next season.
Great drive by Kimi, very well deserved. Excellent team radio...the guy is a legend.
Vettel pulls it out of the bag, a schumacher-esq performance. Worth every point he got plus more. Yet there will still be those that say he cant overtake, isnt a racer, only wins with the best car etc etc. He certainly shut most of those up.
Agree withthe poster thathamilton looks more happy and more chilled out person. Maybe he knows hes made a mistake and doesnt want to burn his bridges with mclaren. It certainly makes a difference from his usual smarmy arrogant stuck up **** he usually is.
The Toro Ross Driver Verne Annoyed me when he let Vettel pass, i thought they where meant to be racing each other, i know Torro Rosso are the Junior team but surly the Verne could of put up more of Fight instead of parking the car to let seb pass- Can the FIA do something about that because it just seem a bit to Conveint for the Torro Rosso to be in the way:mad:
You can't fault Alonso's effort - pushing so hard with a very average car. But I think Vettel's got it. This will give him so much more momentum, going onto two tracks which I think would suit the Red Bull well.
There is your difference between Vettel and Alonso.
Vettel is an average driver in a great car.
Alonso is a great driver in an average car.
Any driver can flatter a great car, it takes a great driver to flatter an average or poor car. This is why I do not rate Vettel highly, he only is able to win when he has the fastest car.
Ahhh what a shame hamilton had to stop again oh well he better get used it, he will be doing a lot nil point next season.
Great drive by Kimi, very well deserved. Excellent team radio...the guy is a legend.
Vettel pulls it out of the bag, a schumacher-esq performance. Worth every point he got plus more. Yet there will still be those that say he cant overtake, isnt a racer, only wins with the best car etc etc. He certainly shut most of those up.
Agree withthe poster thathamilton looks more happy and more chilled out person. Maybe he knows hes made a mistake and doesnt want to burn his bridges with mclaren. It certainly makes a difference from his usual smarmy arrogant stuck up **** he usually is.
When he can pull of that achievement without a perfectly set up car (thanks you stewards, penalising them for breaking the rules but allowing them to change the setup of the car to compensate for the penalty, it a punishment for a reason:mad:) then he can be classed as a great, still today he would have still finished behind the drovers that are better, Alonso obviously and Lewis had the McLaren not broken down yet again
When he can pull of that achievement without a perfectly set up car (thanks you stewards, penalising them for breaking the rules but allowing them to change the setup of the car to compensate for the penalty, it a punishment for a reason:mad:) then he can be classed as a great, still today he would have still finished behind the drovers that are better, Alonso obviously and Lewis had the McLaren not broken down yet again
Changing the set up hardly compensated for starting from the back of the grid, and it wasn't a special allowance for Red Bull and Vettel
Yes, changing the setup did help getting past cars, but he's not exactly going to leave it at the back of the grid with a low top gear just to satisfy you when they can quite legally do what they did.
Great drive by Kimi, very well deserved. Excellent team radio...the guy is a legend.
.....
Agree withthe poster thathamilton looks more happy and more chilled out person. Maybe he knows hes made a mistake and doesnt want to burn his bridges with mclaren. It certainly makes a difference from his usual smarmy arrogant stuck up **** he usually is.
So, when Raikonnen is bolshie on the radio, swears during interviews and acts miserable it makes him a "legend" whereas it you think Hamilton shows any flicker of the same attitude it makes him a "smarmy arrogant stuck up ****"?
You really are starting to sound as bad as Forza Ferrari.
Changing the set up hardly compensated for starting from the back of the grid, and it wasn't a special allowance for Red Bull and Vettel
Yes, changing the setup did help getting past cars, but he's not exactly going to leave it at the back of the grid with a low top gear just to satisfy you when they can quite legally do what they did.
They should never have been allowed to change the set up. They were sent to the back as a punishment.
At least the teams now no know what to do if they realise their cars aren't fact enough to fight their competition.
Underfuel the car and claim you have to stop the car on track because of an issue and making sure there isn't 1 litre of fuel in the car for a sample. That way you get a free pass to change the set up, something which is not allowed under parc ferme rules, to one which allows you to perform better in the race.
So, when Raikonnen is bolshie on the radio, swears during interviews and acts miserable it makes him a "legend" whereas it you think Hamilton shows any flicker of the same attitude it makes him a "smarmy arrogant stuck up ****"?
You really are starting to sound as bad as Forza Ferrari.
That is Kimi though, that is how he is.
I am mor disgusted at Vettel whining down the radio because he nearly rear ended the Toro Rosso under the safety car.
At least Ricciardo didn't accelerate and then slow down like he did in Valencia when Button nearly rear ended him.
They should never have been allowed to change the set up. They were sent to the back as a punishment.
At least the teams now no know what to do if they realise their cars aren't fact enough to fight their competition.
Underfuel the car and claim you have to stop the car on track because of an issue and making sure there isn't 1 litre of fuel in the car for a sample. That way you get a free pass to change the set up, something which is not allowed under parc ferme rules, to one which allows you to perform better in the race.
You're funny., Yep, I can see them queueing up for that one, :rolleyes:
So, when Raikonnen is bolshie on the radio, swears during interviews and acts miserable it makes him a "legend" whereas it you think Hamilton shows any flicker of the same attitude it makes him a "smarmy arrogant stuck up ****"?
You really are starting to sound as bad as Forza Ferrari.
There are worse people to sound like you know but keep the flame attacks coming.
As for Lewis I think he is being incredible fake right now. How trite was it when after five laps behind the safety car he enquired about the people who crashed. If he was genuine he could have just got on the radio and said insert fake sympathy for my next year’s team mate here.
Lewis knows a change is going and all eyes will be on how he handles it. His nice guy routine resembles day 1 of the big brother house. It is really a kind of early honeymoon period. The real Lewis will be back a few dismal races in to the 2013 season.
The Toro Ross Driver Verne Annoyed me when he let Vettel pass, i thought they where meant to be racing each other, i know Torro Rosso are the Junior team but surly the Verne could of put up more of Fight instead of parking the car to let seb pass- Can the FIA do something about that because it just seem a bit to Conveint for the Torro Rosso to be in the way:mad:
I do agree with this. Red Bull essentially have four cars at their will. I doubt Vergne would be so willing to let Alonso pass if he had been in the same situation as Vettel.
Either way, Vettel just had everything go right for him. Multiple cars taken out, two safety cars exactly when he needed it, and in hindsight, the front-wing damage which led to his early first stop. Had none of that happened, he'd have probably reached 6th - 8th.
It's not Raikonnen that I'm criticising though.
What I'm criticising is another poster here who seems to think Raikonnen is a "legend" for acting in that way and yet criticises Hamilton at any hint of the same attitude.
There are worse people to sound like you know but keep the flame attacks coming.
As for Lewis I think he is being incredible fake right now. How trite was it when after five laps behind the safety car he enquired about the people who crashed. If he was genuine he could have just got on the radio and said insert fake sympathy for my next year’s team mate here.
Lewis knows a change is going and all eyes will be on how he handles it. His nice guy routine resembles day 1 of the big brother house. It is really a kind of early honeymoon period. The real Lewis will be back a few dismal races in to the 2013 season.
Either way, Vettel just had everything go right for him. Multiple cars taken out, two safety cars exactly when he needed it, and in hindsight, the front-wing damage which led to his early first stop. Had none of that happened, he'd have probably reached 6th - 8th.
Indeed.
He has the best car on the grid and it was tweaked to yield better top-end and allow him to overtake.
There were multiple collisions and retirements ahead of him and 3 cars willingly got out of his way and there were 2 safety-car periods at ideal times.
Vettel's certainly got enough talent to make the most of opportunities presented to him but he was certainly lucky to get those opportunities today.
FWIW, Vettel was 20 seconds behind Button after his 2nd pit-stop and the 2nd SC closed that down to around 2 seconds.
Interesting point about whether the Torro Rosso's would assist Vettel more than Alonso.
We shouldn't forget that STR get their engines from Ferrari so that might also impact their decision-making.
Yet still got fastest lap of the race. So their gear ratio expert needs to do some hard thinking as they seem to have got it wrong all season.
Nah,
Thing is, if you're in a fast car you can assume you will be somewhere near the front during the race and you therefore won't get to use DRS very often.
As a result of this you set your gearing so the car red-lines in top gear just as it reaches whatever speed it's doing at the end of the longest straight.
Conversely, if you're in a fast car but know you're not going to be near the front (perhaps due to a penalty from a previous race etc) then you can assume you WILL be overtaking a lot and WILL be using the DRS a lot so you pick a higher 7th gear so that the car can make use of the reduced drag and higher speed.
Basically, lower gearing means better acceleration but lower top speed and higher gearing means slower acceleration with a higher top speed.
The final factor is that even though your car, theoretically, accelerates slower with higher gearing, when you have the DRS open there's less drag so the engine can push the car through the air better so even though higher gearing should mean slower acceleration, that's offset by the reduced drag so you end up with the same actual rate of acceleration as those who're running lower gear ratios with the additional benefit of a higher top speed.
It's actually easier for teams like Williams, Sauber, FI and co to plan this stuff.
They simply assume there will be cars to overtake so they set their top gear on that basis.
For the teams nearer the front it's a tougher choice.
If you set top gear to suit DRS assisted speed and you end up in front you won't have DRS, your car will be running at lower rev's and will, thus, be slower than everybody elses.
Conversely, if you select a top gear on the assumption you'll be in the lead and end up a few cars back you'll find that you end up with a car that'll accelerate up to about 180mph like a scalded cat but then run out of revs and any following cars might still have another 20mph of acceleration.
In short, it's no surprise that RBR regularly fail to bother the speed traps because the team always assumes they'll be in the lead and gears them accordingly.
Also, FWIW, I thought the RRA dictated that teams choose their gears ahead of races to avoid the extra expense of having heaps of different gearbox/gear combinations manufactured?
Maybe they are just limited to a certain number of gears etc?
All well and good except that you can use DRS at any point during a practice lap which includes qualifying.
So what?
The only real issue is whatever choices a team makes that will affect both quali' AND race speed.
Sure, I suppose if a track had a straight which happened to yield a speed that was close to the red-line of an intermediate gear they might juggle that gear as well but every team knows, with certainty, that no other car will have the advantage of DRS on that straight during the race so the only straight that's worthy of consideration is the DRS straight, which is always top-gear.
So, when Raikonnen is bolshie on the radio, swears during interviews and acts miserable it makes him a "legend" whereas it you think Hamilton shows any flicker of the same attitude it makes him a "smarmy arrogant stuck up ****"?
Not forgetting Vettel using the "F" word on same international TV. All completely without any kind of fallout or consequences for either driver. Nice business :rolleyes:.
Not forgetting Vettel using the "F" word on same international TV. All completely without any kind of fallout or consequences for either driver. Nice business :rolleyes:.
Most embarassing part about all that, IMO, was that there's absolutely no way Vettel "didn't understand" what he was saying.
He simply heard Kimi say "shit" and thought it'd be cool to try and "outdo" him on that as well, in the same way that he likes his fastest laps, pole-positions, wins-from-starts etc.
I'm not sure whether it was the product of a relentlessly competitive nature or whether it was the product of a slightly wacky, oddball, teutonic sense of humour (I suspect it was the latter) but he came across like an 8 year old repeating a rude word he's learned in the playground at the dinner table to show his parents what a big boy he is.
Can't really bring myself to be too critical though cos I suspect it was just a misjudged attempt at mischief.
For once an exciting race and nice to see Lotus win one. It was amusing to hear the difference in Raikonnen and Massa with regard to radio communications from their engineers. Smedley always sounds a headmaster when talking to Massa and it would funny to hear what Raikonnen would have to say to him. Alonso must be very disappointed with the result and no doubt can't believe how the race unfolded in Vettel's favour who although he drove very well was a very lucky boy indeed.
McLaren yet again have problems for what would have been a straightforward victory for Hamilton while Button was not at all happy with his car's performance.
When he can pull of that achievement without a perfectly set up car (thanks you stewards, penalising them for breaking the rules but allowing them to change the setup of the car to compensate for the penalty, it a punishment for a reason:mad:) then he can be classed as a great, still today he would have still finished behind the drovers that are better, Alonso obviously and Lewis had the McLaren not broken down yet again
I have never said Vettel is one of the greats of the sport. So not sure where you get that idea from. However todays drive was one of his best. Probably the best drive of the season. However that demonstrates that he is a very good driver, and not average as some people think.
As for the setup change, that was the first time he drove that car with that setup at Abu Dhabi. You have to give him some credit for doing as well as he did.
I would agree that Alonso is a better driver than Vettel. Currently there is no better driver on the grid. Alonso is the best driver on the grid by a good margin, no one else can get close to him. As for the difference between Hamilton and Vettel, I am not so sure there is that big a difference. I have never heard Vettel say he wants to give up. Hamilton had the best car out there today, thats why he was so far infront. Pretty much the same thing applied at the previous three races, where Vettel was miles out infront.
So, when Raikonnen is bolshie on the radio, swears during interviews and acts miserable it makes him a "legend" whereas it you think Hamilton shows any flicker of the same attitude it makes him a "smarmy arrogant stuck up ****"?
You really are starting to sound as bad as Forza Ferrari.
His attitude is a bit of a Finnish trait. Hakkinen was the same. Its how they are from that country. He not a legend for what he has done today, he is a legend before this drive. Remeber when his car stopped in Monaco, rather than going back to the pits, he jumped onto his yacht and had a beer or two with his friends. His general attitude, his demeanour all contribute to him being a legend. You telling me you didnt find his radio message funny? I dont know of any other driver that would have come out with what he did. Lets compare Kimis team radio with Hamiltons. After Rosbergs crash, Hamilton says to the team, "They will need to clear that debris up or someone will get a puncture"....no shit sherlock.
Hamilton has shown over the last few races what a chilled out, likeable chap he can be. If he was like this all the time, he would have a lot more supporters. He has at time been a smarmy arrogant, stuckup t-w-a-t. If you dont think there is a massive difference in his attitude over the past month to how hes been like over his career, then you have problems. I could list loads of reasons why I think this, however I am sure you are well aware of them - so I wont. just look at last season and his tweets.
That has to be the team radio quote of the season, almost as infamous as, "Okay, so, Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?"
Comments
Best policy for the last 2 races would be to ensure that he has enough fuel in the car for qualifying
Has forza Ferrari changed his name
FANTASTIC for kimi to finally win again
well pleased for him
Well done Kimi Great Drive and well deserved:D
Vettel is an average driver in a great car.
Alonso is a great driver in an average car.
Any driver can flatter a great car, it takes a great driver to flatter an average or poor car. This is why I do not rate Vettel highly, he only is able to win when he has the fastest car.
Changing the set up hardly compensated for starting from the back of the grid, and it wasn't a special allowance for Red Bull and Vettel
Yes, changing the setup did help getting past cars, but he's not exactly going to leave it at the back of the grid with a low top gear just to satisfy you when they can quite legally do what they did.
So, when Raikonnen is bolshie on the radio, swears during interviews and acts miserable it makes him a "legend" whereas it you think Hamilton shows any flicker of the same attitude it makes him a "smarmy arrogant stuck up ****"?
You really are starting to sound as bad as Forza Ferrari.
At least the teams now no know what to do if they realise their cars aren't fact enough to fight their competition.
Underfuel the car and claim you have to stop the car on track because of an issue and making sure there isn't 1 litre of fuel in the car for a sample. That way you get a free pass to change the set up, something which is not allowed under parc ferme rules, to one which allows you to perform better in the race.
I am mor disgusted at Vettel whining down the radio because he nearly rear ended the Toro Rosso under the safety car.
At least Ricciardo didn't accelerate and then slow down like he did in Valencia when Button nearly rear ended him.
You're funny., Yep, I can see them queueing up for that one, :rolleyes:
There are worse people to sound like you know but keep the flame attacks coming.
As for Lewis I think he is being incredible fake right now. How trite was it when after five laps behind the safety car he enquired about the people who crashed. If he was genuine he could have just got on the radio and said insert fake sympathy for my next year’s team mate here.
Lewis knows a change is going and all eyes will be on how he handles it. His nice guy routine resembles day 1 of the big brother house. It is really a kind of early honeymoon period. The real Lewis will be back a few dismal races in to the 2013 season.
Either way, Vettel just had everything go right for him. Multiple cars taken out, two safety cars exactly when he needed it, and in hindsight, the front-wing damage which led to his early first stop. Had none of that happened, he'd have probably reached 6th - 8th.
Oh yeah, I know.
It's not Raikonnen that I'm criticising though.
What I'm criticising is another poster here who seems to think Raikonnen is a "legend" for acting in that way and yet criticises Hamilton at any hint of the same attitude.
Erm, yeah. Quite.
Indeed.
He has the best car on the grid and it was tweaked to yield better top-end and allow him to overtake.
There were multiple collisions and retirements ahead of him and 3 cars willingly got out of his way and there were 2 safety-car periods at ideal times.
Vettel's certainly got enough talent to make the most of opportunities presented to him but he was certainly lucky to get those opportunities today.
FWIW, Vettel was 20 seconds behind Button after his 2nd pit-stop and the 2nd SC closed that down to around 2 seconds.
Interesting point about whether the Torro Rosso's would assist Vettel more than Alonso.
We shouldn't forget that STR get their engines from Ferrari so that might also impact their decision-making.
Nah,
Thing is, if you're in a fast car you can assume you will be somewhere near the front during the race and you therefore won't get to use DRS very often.
As a result of this you set your gearing so the car red-lines in top gear just as it reaches whatever speed it's doing at the end of the longest straight.
Conversely, if you're in a fast car but know you're not going to be near the front (perhaps due to a penalty from a previous race etc) then you can assume you WILL be overtaking a lot and WILL be using the DRS a lot so you pick a higher 7th gear so that the car can make use of the reduced drag and higher speed.
Basically, lower gearing means better acceleration but lower top speed and higher gearing means slower acceleration with a higher top speed.
The final factor is that even though your car, theoretically, accelerates slower with higher gearing, when you have the DRS open there's less drag so the engine can push the car through the air better so even though higher gearing should mean slower acceleration, that's offset by the reduced drag so you end up with the same actual rate of acceleration as those who're running lower gear ratios with the additional benefit of a higher top speed.
It's actually easier for teams like Williams, Sauber, FI and co to plan this stuff.
They simply assume there will be cars to overtake so they set their top gear on that basis.
For the teams nearer the front it's a tougher choice.
If you set top gear to suit DRS assisted speed and you end up in front you won't have DRS, your car will be running at lower rev's and will, thus, be slower than everybody elses.
Conversely, if you select a top gear on the assumption you'll be in the lead and end up a few cars back you'll find that you end up with a car that'll accelerate up to about 180mph like a scalded cat but then run out of revs and any following cars might still have another 20mph of acceleration.
In short, it's no surprise that RBR regularly fail to bother the speed traps because the team always assumes they'll be in the lead and gears them accordingly.
Also, FWIW, I thought the RRA dictated that teams choose their gears ahead of races to avoid the extra expense of having heaps of different gearbox/gear combinations manufactured?
Maybe they are just limited to a certain number of gears etc?
So what?
The only real issue is whatever choices a team makes that will affect both quali' AND race speed.
Sure, I suppose if a track had a straight which happened to yield a speed that was close to the red-line of an intermediate gear they might juggle that gear as well but every team knows, with certainty, that no other car will have the advantage of DRS on that straight during the race so the only straight that's worthy of consideration is the DRS straight, which is always top-gear.
Not forgetting Vettel using the "F" word on same international TV. All completely without any kind of fallout or consequences for either driver. Nice business :rolleyes:.
Most embarassing part about all that, IMO, was that there's absolutely no way Vettel "didn't understand" what he was saying.
He simply heard Kimi say "shit" and thought it'd be cool to try and "outdo" him on that as well, in the same way that he likes his fastest laps, pole-positions, wins-from-starts etc.
I'm not sure whether it was the product of a relentlessly competitive nature or whether it was the product of a slightly wacky, oddball, teutonic sense of humour (I suspect it was the latter) but he came across like an 8 year old repeating a rude word he's learned in the playground at the dinner table to show his parents what a big boy he is.
Can't really bring myself to be too critical though cos I suspect it was just a misjudged attempt at mischief.
McLaren yet again have problems for what would have been a straightforward victory for Hamilton while Button was not at all happy with his car's performance.
I have never said Vettel is one of the greats of the sport. So not sure where you get that idea from. However todays drive was one of his best. Probably the best drive of the season. However that demonstrates that he is a very good driver, and not average as some people think.
As for the setup change, that was the first time he drove that car with that setup at Abu Dhabi. You have to give him some credit for doing as well as he did.
I would agree that Alonso is a better driver than Vettel. Currently there is no better driver on the grid. Alonso is the best driver on the grid by a good margin, no one else can get close to him. As for the difference between Hamilton and Vettel, I am not so sure there is that big a difference. I have never heard Vettel say he wants to give up. Hamilton had the best car out there today, thats why he was so far infront. Pretty much the same thing applied at the previous three races, where Vettel was miles out infront.
His attitude is a bit of a Finnish trait. Hakkinen was the same. Its how they are from that country. He not a legend for what he has done today, he is a legend before this drive. Remeber when his car stopped in Monaco, rather than going back to the pits, he jumped onto his yacht and had a beer or two with his friends. His general attitude, his demeanour all contribute to him being a legend. You telling me you didnt find his radio message funny? I dont know of any other driver that would have come out with what he did. Lets compare Kimis team radio with Hamiltons. After Rosbergs crash, Hamilton says to the team, "They will need to clear that debris up or someone will get a puncture"....no shit sherlock.
Hamilton has shown over the last few races what a chilled out, likeable chap he can be. If he was like this all the time, he would have a lot more supporters. He has at time been a smarmy arrogant, stuckup t-w-a-t. If you dont think there is a massive difference in his attitude over the past month to how hes been like over his career, then you have problems. I could list loads of reasons why I think this, however I am sure you are well aware of them - so I wont. just look at last season and his tweets.
That has to be the team radio quote of the season, almost as infamous as, "Okay, so, Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?"