I already gave you examples of those reasons when you asked for them. As I said in that earlier post, women often do not apply for jobs like this because of the perception they are 'men's work' - and recruiters may not encourage applications from women for the same reasons.
As there are women foundry workers in other places then unless you are saying there is something demonstrably physically different between those women and British women (please feel free to demonstrate this) then logically the reason why women don't apply for these jobs because of other factors... ie sociological factors.
Maybe they should try harder then? It is there.......if they want it.
Making dresses or cooking was always considered 'womens work', yet today most of the top name fashion designers are male. The same with cooking with Gordon Ramsay, Jamie Oliver, and James Martin.
Wonder why?
Probably because they told themselves 'i can do that.....and i will do it even better'. They didn't look for an excuse that 'its womens work' stand in their way. They got on with the job and succeeded.
Hhmmm.......all the 'operator' staff in my Colonoscopy department were definitely female.........thank God! Somehow i'm not sure i'd want a bloke firking around up my rear end!
Jesaya pointed out that sometimes there are sociological reasons why few women go into a particular field - i.e. it's not always the case that they are not suited to the role, there are historical sociological factors involved when women make career choices. Which is also correct. And is not psychobabble.
Women shouldn't be allowed in such a closed situation. Being surrounded by men for all that time, at sea......it must increase the chance hugely of this type of thing happening...
It could mean life or death.....an urgent decision for action is needed and they can't find the boss because she's down in the torpedo room straddling the first mates warhead.
What is the matter with people when they doggedly refuse to accept basic realities of life?
I'm just waiting for you to be labelled a sexist or misogynist for daring to suggest that most of the physically challenging and dangerous jobs are done almost exclusively by men. Ah, hang on, you already have.
How many people here know of any female fishermen (fisherpeople).
I remember watching a TV programme a while back about three feminists that were asking why aren't there many (or any) female loggers. So, the premise of the programme was they were 'invited' to do the job for a week and see if they were up to the job. Logging is an extremely dangerous job at the best of times and all three women had to admit afterwards (reluctantly no doubt) they simply weren't up to the job.
Maybe they should try harder then? It is there.......if they want it.
Making dresses or cooking was always considered 'womens work', yet today most of the top name fashion designers are male. The same with cooking with Gordon Ramsay, Jamie Oliver, and James Martin.
Wonder why?
Probably because they told themselves 'i can do that.....and i will do it even better'. They didn't look for an excuse that 'its womens work' stand in their way. They got on with the job and succeeded.
I agree that women need to have the confidence to go for roles they may not have considered in the past - and they are... that is why there are women flying fighter planes and driving F1 cars.
Actually neither cooking or fashion was considered 'woman's work' in the past - I assume you have heard of Worth? He is considered to be the first modern fashion designer... in the 1850s. The first chefs were men as well - Bartolomeo Scappi wrote the first western cookbook when he was chef in the Vatican... in 1577.
I'm just waiting for you to be labelled a sexist or misogynist for daring to suggest that most of the physically challenging and dangerous jobs are done almost exclusively by men. Ah, hang on, you already have.
How many people here know of any female fishermen (fisher people).
I remember watching a TV programme a while back about three feminists that were asking why aren't there many (or any) female loggers. So, the premise of the programme was they were 'invited' to do the job for a week and see if they up to the job. Logging is an extremely dangerous job at the best of times and all three women had to admit afterwards (reluctantly no doubt) they simply weren't up to the job.
Actually he said there were no women working in foundries were because 'women are not up to it'. No 'some' or 'most'.
There are women who work on fishing boats - I don't personally know any, but then I don't personally know any men who do that job either.
"It is by no means however, uncommon for women to work on one of these vessels. In fact, there are a growing number of fishing vessels with women skippers..."
I'm just waiting for you to be labelled a sexist or misogynist for daring to suggest that most of the physically challenging and dangerous jobs are done almost exclusively by men. Ah, hang on, you already have.
How many people here know of any female fishermen (fisher people).
I remember watching a TV programme a while back about three feminists that were asking why aren't there many (or any) female loggers. So, the premise of the programme was they were 'invited' to do the job for a week and see if they up to the job. Logging is an extremely dangerous job at the best of times and all three women had to admit afterwards (reluctantly no doubt) they simply weren't up to the job.
Yeah i'm kind of used to it now in GD. I think everything has gone kind of wacko now with all this crazy 'gender bending' of job titles. For me a Policeman will always be a bloke with a willy and Woman PC will always be......well, a woman with boobs. Same with Firemen.
What have they changed manhole covers to now? I suppose some crackpot has dreamt up a wacko name for that too.
I'm surprised we still have Mandarin oranges on display.
Everywhere has gone quite mad. It's as though the feminist illuminati want the letters 'm a n' annihilated.
Yeah i'm kind of used to it now in GD. I think everything has gone kind of wacko now with all this crazy 'gender bending' of job titles. For me a Policeman will always be a bloke with a willy and Woman PC will always be......well, a woman with boobs. Same with Firemen.
What have they changed manhole covers to now? I suppose some crackpot has dreamt up a wacko name for that too.
I'm surprised we still have Mandarin oranges on display.
Everywhere has gone quite mad. It's as though the feminist illuminati want the letters 'm a n' annihilated.
A policeman is a bloke with a willy... a policewoman is a woman with boobs. They are both police officers. Ditto for firefighters.
Manhole covers are still called manhole covers.
Mandarin oranges are unlikely to change as the name comes from Sanskrit and means 'advisor'.
I agree that women need to have the confidence to go for roles they may not have considered in the past - and they are... that is why there are women flying fighter planes and driving F1 cars.
Eh? Must have missed this then. Who is the female in F1?
Watched the Hungarian GP and i'd swear blind i never saw any women blasting around the track.
Actually neither cooking or fashion was considered 'woman's work' in the past - I assume you have heard of Worth? He is considered to be the first modern fashion designer... in the 1850s. The first chefs were men as well - Bartolomeo Scappi wrote the first western cookbook when he was chef in the Vatican... in 1577.
As kids my sister had a cookery set and apron......i had a Meccano set.
Anyway.......i think you get my point without going back to the 1850s (how old are you? ).
Blokes seem to be pretty damn good dressmakers on the designer frock side as do the Ramsay's and Martin's of this current world. They've become millionaires from it so must be doing something right.
"It is by no means however, uncommon for women to work on one of these vessels. In fact, there are a growing number of fishing vessels with women skippers..."
A policeman is a bloke with a willy... a policewoman is a woman with boobs. They are both police officers. Ditto for firefighters.
Policeman and Policewoman for me as long as they are on the bottom rank. They get to be called Officers when they've climbed a few more rungs up the ladder.
Firefighters........oh brother. Kind of sounds a bit silly when called out to rescue a cat from a tree or some old dear gets stuck in a lift.
There is a difference between being a skipper of a fishing boat and actually doing the fishing.
If you read the article you would see it mentions them crewing as well. Seriously, if I can find that and other articles in a quick google then I am sure you can do the same.
Policeman and Policewoman for me as long as they are on the bottom rank. They get to be called Officers when they've climbed a few more rungs up the ladder.
Firefighters........oh brother. Kind of sounds a bit silly when called out to rescue a cat from a tree or some old dear gets stuck in a lift.
Wow......shocking news.:o
That needs 'sorting' then.
Effluent covers?
Relieved to hear that hasn't been 'attacked' as it could have become quite confusing.
All police are 'police officers' - it isn't about what you choose to call them, it is what they are.
I should have thought firefighters was a better term - all sounds rather brave and fearless to me.
Eh? Must have missed this then. Who is the female in F1?
Watched the Hungarian GP and i'd swear blind i never saw any women blasting around the track.
As kids my sister had a cookery set and apron......i had a Meccano set.
Anyway.......i think you get my point without going back to the 1850s (how old are you? ).
Blokes seem to be pretty damn good dressmakers on the designer frock side as do the Ramsay's and Martin's of this current world. They've become millionaires from it so must be doing something right.
Four women have already driven in F1 - Susie Wolff is the first in 22 years. She has just started out as a team member so maybe you will have the pleasure of seeing her at some point.
You said that fashion design and cookery were historically 'women's jobs' so I pointed out to you that historically they are not, so it is hardly surprising that men are still at the top of these professions when the first people in those professions were men.
Four women have already driven in F1 - Susie Wolff is the first in 22 years. She has just started out as a team member so maybe you will have the pleasure of seeing her at some point.
You said that fashion design and cookery were historically 'women's jobs' so I pointed out to you that historically they are not, so it is hardly surprising that men are still at the top of these professions when the first people in those professions were men.
Susie Wolff is a Development driver for Williams which hardly makes her an F1 driver!
She 'took part' in the British GP earlier this year. Now 31 years old her time is fast running out. I saw a documentary about her. From memory i think she has baby making on her mind now. ;-)
As for the others.....they simply came....and went, almost as quickly as they'd arrived!
F1 is incredibly demanding both physically and mentally. Few women ever made any note of significance. However all is not 'lost' in your 'cause' and i'm surprised you didn't pick up on this.
Rallying.......where there was once a notable Rally driver, Michelle Mouton who raced during the late 70's into early 80's. She has the distinction of being the last female professional Rally driver to compete at World Class Rallying.
Susie Wolff is a Development driver for Williams which hardly makes her an F1 driver!
She 'took part' in the British GP earlier this year. Now 31 years old her time is fast running out. I saw a documentary about her. From memory i think she has baby making on her mind now. ;-)
As for the others.....they simply came....and went, almost as quickly as they'd arrived!
F1 is incredibly demanding both physically and mentally. Few women ever made any note of significance. However all is not 'lost' in your 'cause' and i'm surprised you didn't pick up on this.
Rallying.......where there was once a notable Rally driver, Michelle Mouton who raced during the late 70's into early 80's. She has the distinction of being the last female professional Rally driver to compete at World Class Rallying.
There haven't been any since.
Sweetie, I don't have a 'cause' - I just like accuracy - possibly because I am a scientist and engineer and we are like that. You said there were no women F1 drivers and there are. Now you want to change the argument about how successful they were... a different question. Evidently F1 governing body are hoping that more women will get involved so as they are the experts here then I am going to listen to them. You also said that women were not 'naturally suited' to some jobs and I explained that too.
I know you want to try and rile the girlies here, but, to use one of my favourite Americanisms, that dog won't hunt.
Four women have already driven in F1 - Susie Wolff is the first in 22 years. She has just started out as a team member so maybe you will have the pleasure of seeing her at some point.
Though she did impress me in the run she did at the German GP, some question whether she got the seat time out of merit considering that she joined the team when her husband was a shareholder in it and she has never had a win in anything else.
When compared to Alice Powell and Simona de Silvestro, I can see why her getting an opportunity raises eyebrows.
Though she did impress me in the run she did at the German GP, some question whether she got the seat time out of merit considering that she joined the team when her husband was a shareholder in it and she has never had a win in anything else.
When compared to Alice Powell and Simona de Silvestro, I can see why her getting an opportunity raises eyebrows.
I can't say I know much about motor racing to be honest - but if being married to or related to someone else in the sport she will be in good company.
Evidently F1 governing body are hoping that more women will get involved so as they are the experts here then I am going to listen to them. You also said that women were not 'naturally suited' to some jobs and I explained that too.
I know you want to try and rile the girlies here, but, to use one of my favourite Americanisms, that dog won't hunt.
Not far from where i live, founded and run by Sue Collins, a brilliant engineer specialising in building high performance engines. Sue herself owns half a dozen Ford RS200's and occasionally has a blast around at local race events with one of them.
However 'Sue' went through most of her engineering life as a bloke. She's transsexual. :cool:
Comments
Making dresses or cooking was always considered 'womens work', yet today most of the top name fashion designers are male. The same with cooking with Gordon Ramsay, Jamie Oliver, and James Martin.
Wonder why?
Probably because they told themselves 'i can do that.....and i will do it even better'. They didn't look for an excuse that 'its womens work' stand in their way. They got on with the job and succeeded.
Why don't you pick up on that?!
Ok.....whatever you like.
Now be sensible! How likely is that?
Maybe it's an indicator of his mindset.
I'm just waiting for you to be labelled a sexist or misogynist for daring to suggest that most of the physically challenging and dangerous jobs are done almost exclusively by men. Ah, hang on, you already have.
How many people here know of any female fishermen (fisherpeople).
I remember watching a TV programme a while back about three feminists that were asking why aren't there many (or any) female loggers. So, the premise of the programme was they were 'invited' to do the job for a week and see if they were up to the job. Logging is an extremely dangerous job at the best of times and all three women had to admit afterwards (reluctantly no doubt) they simply weren't up to the job.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logging#Safety_considerations
I agree that women need to have the confidence to go for roles they may not have considered in the past - and they are... that is why there are women flying fighter planes and driving F1 cars.
Actually neither cooking or fashion was considered 'woman's work' in the past - I assume you have heard of Worth? He is considered to be the first modern fashion designer... in the 1850s. The first chefs were men as well - Bartolomeo Scappi wrote the first western cookbook when he was chef in the Vatican... in 1577.
Actually he said there were no women working in foundries were because 'women are not up to it'. No 'some' or 'most'.
There are women who work on fishing boats - I don't personally know any, but then I don't personally know any men who do that job either.
http://www.alaskajobfinder.com/jobseekers/experts/women-fishing.php
http://www.jobmonkey.com/alaska/html/special_notes.html
About 3% of European fisherfolk are women.
http://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/documentation/studies/role_of_women/summary_en.pdf
What have they changed manhole covers to now? I suppose some crackpot has dreamt up a wacko name for that too.
I'm surprised we still have Mandarin oranges on display.
Everywhere has gone quite mad. It's as though the feminist illuminati want the letters 'm a n' annihilated.
A policeman is a bloke with a willy... a policewoman is a woman with boobs. They are both police officers. Ditto for firefighters.
Manhole covers are still called manhole covers.
Mandarin oranges are unlikely to change as the name comes from Sanskrit and means 'advisor'.
Watched the Hungarian GP and i'd swear blind i never saw any women blasting around the track.
As kids my sister had a cookery set and apron......i had a Meccano set.
Anyway.......i think you get my point without going back to the 1850s (how old are you?
Blokes seem to be pretty damn good dressmakers on the designer frock side as do the Ramsay's and Martin's of this current world. They've become millionaires from it so must be doing something right.
There is a difference between being a skipper of a fishing boat and actually doing the fishing.
Firefighters........oh brother. Kind of sounds a bit silly when called out to rescue a cat from a tree or some old dear gets stuck in a lift.
Wow......shocking news.
That needs 'sorting' then.
Effluent covers?
Relieved to hear that hasn't been 'attacked' as it could have become quite confusing.
If you read the article you would see it mentions them crewing as well. Seriously, if I can find that and other articles in a quick google then I am sure you can do the same.
All police are 'police officers' - it isn't about what you choose to call them, it is what they are.
I should have thought firefighters was a better term - all sounds rather brave and fearless to me.
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2014/6/16009.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28128126
Four women have already driven in F1 - Susie Wolff is the first in 22 years. She has just started out as a team member so maybe you will have the pleasure of seeing her at some point.
You said that fashion design and cookery were historically 'women's jobs' so I pointed out to you that historically they are not, so it is hardly surprising that men are still at the top of these professions when the first people in those professions were men.
She 'took part' in the British GP earlier this year. Now 31 years old her time is fast running out. I saw a documentary about her. From memory i think she has baby making on her mind now. ;-)
As for the others.....they simply came....and went, almost as quickly as they'd arrived!
F1 is incredibly demanding both physically and mentally. Few women ever made any note of significance. However all is not 'lost' in your 'cause' and i'm surprised you didn't pick up on this.
Rallying.......where there was once a notable Rally driver, Michelle Mouton who raced during the late 70's into early 80's. She has the distinction of being the last female professional Rally driver to compete at World Class Rallying.
There haven't been any since.
Sweetie, I don't have a 'cause' - I just like accuracy - possibly because I am a scientist and engineer and we are like that. You said there were no women F1 drivers and there are. Now you want to change the argument about how successful they were... a different question. Evidently F1 governing body are hoping that more women will get involved so as they are the experts here then I am going to listen to them. You also said that women were not 'naturally suited' to some jobs and I explained that too.
I know you want to try and rile the girlies here, but, to use one of my favourite Americanisms, that dog won't hunt.
Though she did impress me in the run she did at the German GP, some question whether she got the seat time out of merit considering that she joined the team when her husband was a shareholder in it and she has never had a win in anything else.
When compared to Alice Powell and Simona de Silvestro, I can see why her getting an opportunity raises eyebrows.
I can't say I know much about motor racing to be honest - but if being married to or related to someone else in the sport she will be in good company.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_family_relations_in_auto_racing
God knows what field of science you are in or what you 'engineer', but i just hope your theories are a darn sight more accurate than your statements.
There aren't......there were. Past tense....gone......vamooshed. Didn't last long (i'm trying very hard here to avoid saying 'weren't up to it' ;-)).
Here are all the current competing professional F1 drivers;
http://www.formula1.com/teams_and_drivers/drivers/
All seem pretty much male to me unless a transsexual has popped up from somewhere.
And here is a list of all who have driven in F1, including your five women (all long disappeared). I think it safe to say that 99.9% of names are all male.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_drivers#W
Already sorted that a few posts before, but just for scientific 'R&D', have obliged again. :cool:
BIB.......just don't hold your breath. ;-)
EDIT; Being in Engineering you may (or may not) have heard of Collins Performance Engineering?
http://www.collinsperformance.com/
Not far from where i live, founded and run by Sue Collins, a brilliant engineer specialising in building high performance engines. Sue herself owns half a dozen Ford RS200's and occasionally has a blast around at local race events with one of them.
However 'Sue' went through most of her engineering life as a bloke. She's transsexual. :cool: