Doc Martin (Part 17 — Spoilers)

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  • marchrandmarchrand Posts: 879
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    Lizzie_cUS wrote: »
    Throw rotten tomatoes or eggs at me if you must, but I hated the first wedding dress and updo. Made L look too much like a Barbie doll IMHO.

    I liked the second dress better and it is amazing with all of the delicate lace on the arms that that damned tattoo didn't show through, especially in the close up scene with her left side (sorry, I just really despise tattoos on women, especially when they are on arms or hands).

    I guess I prefer more of a 30's era romantic style...and the dress for the second wedding seems to fit better with the overall look of the sets, the village and the characters though set in modern times (today).

    The second wedding dress was a Belle and Bunty London (style Darcey). Yes, although I liked the first one at the time I viewed S3, I have to admit the second one is more to my liking and fit better, as you said. It's also nice to hear that Caroline Catz had a part in picking out that style. If you search
    http://www.belleandbunty.co.uk doc martin
    I believe it will take you directly to the dress worn by a model. I suspect LE's lace part of the gown was lined with a skin color fabric. The back is a little different than the model's. Incidentally, two of my pet peeves: tattoos and strapless wedding gowns. A little sleeve on a wedding gown goes a long way to make it more beautiful and more bridal.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 911
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    DMfan wrote: »
    Actually Mofromco, I agree with what you are saying. My husband recently had surgery and he was pretty darn funny before they took him into theater. My point is that BP never allows Martin and Louisa to have a face to face, in the moment discussion. Martin tells her she is beautiful and that he loves her while he is under the influence of wine. Martin tells Louisa that he loves her but tells Mrs. Tishell not her. Martin tells Louisa that he needs her help to be a better husband, etc., while she drugged prior to surgery. My point is that BP needs to have them alone together under no influence -- except their love -- and tell each other how they feel.

    Excellent point and suggestion, DMfan! :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 153
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    New Park I am far from a therapist, but the niggling question I can't get over is what caused the quick deterioration of their marriage? If we assume there was at least a three month period between the castle in S. 5 and the S. 6, Martin and Louisa must have been getting along as they seemed quite comfortable and, dare I say, happy with each other at the wedding. Even in ep. 2, Louisa seemed a little surprised when Martin invited the school board member to dinner, but they were communicating. Then BLAM, it began to unwind. Do you think it was the weight of the marriage? Some physical, but still undiagnosed condition that caused Martin's weight loss and depression? If depression, was it his realization that he was stuck in Portwenn as a GP and that Louisa and James really weren't enought to offset that? Any thoughts?
  • MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    NewPark wrote: »
    I should say also that couples therapy is a starting point. Often, one or both of the individuals in couples therapy will identify issues that they want to work on in more depth, and start their own individual treatment. Possibly (and optimally) that would happen with Martin, at least. But that works better, imo, if the partner is on board and supportive, and even occasionally engaged as a "collateral" part of treatment. So it still seems to me that the place to start is shoring up the foundations of their marriage, which at this point are a little shaky.

    My reply is actually to your longer post, New Park, but I don't know how to highlight pertinent parts. I disagree that there is not a discrete incident that accounts for DMs blood phobia. The writers have made shown it throughout the series....and seemed to hone it to almost a specific time frame in S6E8. There are hints...the cupboard under the stairs, spankings, Grandpa Henry giving him a frog to dissect when he was 5 years old. Breaking glass....in the bad dream and when he dropped the plate when his Mother visited...the frog on the stairs and finally Ruth's suggestion of a lovely 4 year old versus the shut down 6 year old that she saw later. I believe that there was some sort of large trauma in that time frame.

    I do agree that I don't think he has Asperger's in that he actually can have empathy and is able to adapt to changes in functional ways. He functions on a bit of a higher plane than I have seen in my practice as a Pediatrician. Talk therapy....in essence psychotherapy to relive the past and the trauma seems to be the first line to me. I just wonder what modern professionals do to recall something that has been repressed. In corny old movies, they would use hypnosis, but Martin seems like a horrible candidate for that, as would I . We both have a hyper alert status..impossible to hypnotize. Otherwise, what to do? Talk therapy would be my guess and that could be some juicy material for the writers.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 323
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    DMfan wrote: »
    Actually Mofromco, I agree with what you are saying. My husband recently had surgery and he was pretty darn funny before they took him into theater. My point is that BP never allows Martin and Louisa to have a face to face, in the moment discussion. Martin tells her she is beautiful and that he loves her while he is under the influence of wine. Martin tells Louisa that he loves her but tells Mrs. Tishell not her. Martin tells Louisa that he needs her help to be a better husband, etc., while she drugged prior to surgery. My point is that BP needs to have them alone together under no influence -- except their love -- and tell each other how they feel.

    Absolutely.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 323
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    Mofromco wrote: »
    My reply is actually to your longer post, New Park, but I don't know how to highlight pertinent parts. I disagree that there is not a discrete incident that accounts for DMs blood phobia. The writers have made shown it throughout the series....and seemed to hone it to almost a specific time frame in S6E8. There are hints...the cupboard under the stairs, spankings, Grandpa Henry giving him a frog to dissect when he was 5 years old. Breaking glass....in the bad dream and when he dropped the plate when his Mother visited...the frog on the stairs and finally Ruth's suggestion of a lovely 4 year old versus the shut down 6 year old that she saw later. I believe that there was some sort of large trauma in that time frame.

    What about the two times he cut the inside of his hand? Once in S4 and again in S6? In S4 on broken glass and in S6 by grabbing the knife blade of the psycho guy? Plot device or absolutely no meaning whatsoever? Sorry I keep coming back to that, but it's something that has nagged at me and there's never been any clear answer or reason given.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 323
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    DMfan wrote: »
    New Park I am far from a therapist, but the niggling question I can't get over is what caused the quick deterioration of their marriage? If we assume there was at least a three month period between the castle in S. 5 and the S. 6, Martin and Louisa must have been getting along as they seemed quite comfortable and, dare I say, happy with each other at the wedding. Even in ep. 2, Louisa seemed a little surprised when Martin invited the school board member to dinner, but they were communicating. Then BLAM, it began to unwind. Do you think it was the weight of the marriage? Some physical, but still undiagnosed condition that caused Martin's weight loss and depression? If depression, was it his realization that he was stuck in Portwenn as a GP and that Louisa and James really weren't enought to offset that? Any thoughts?

    The curse of a short series' show(only 8 episodes)? Maybe the challenge of having to write that level of deterioration in such a short time-frame?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    http://www.tvtonight.com.au/2013/12/martin-clunes-to-front-seven-doco-series.html

    It looks like Australia is going to get the Islands treatment. Oh my, I would love to see it when it airs. cc.cookie, are you there?

    It looks like it will air in 2014. I will keep an eye out for it but am sure it is on the net somewhere-MC has really long hair and is chubby so it must be old.
  • MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    cc.cookie wrote: »
    It looks like it will air in 2014. I will keep an eye out for it but am sure it is on the net somewhere-MC has really long hair and is chubby so it must be old.

    That's the Isles of Britain. I don't think the Isles of Oz exists yet. Sounds like a big project for the next few months, after Nativity 3.
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    DMfan wrote: »
    New Park I am far from a therapist, but the niggling question I can't get over is what caused the quick deterioration of their marriage? If we assume there was at least a three month period between the castle in S. 5 and the S. 6, Martin and Louisa must have been getting along as they seemed quite comfortable and, dare I say, happy with each other at the wedding. Even in ep. 2, Louisa seemed a little surprised when Martin invited the school board member to dinner, but they were communicating. Then BLAM, it began to unwind. Do you think it was the weight of the marriage? Some physical, but still undiagnosed condition that caused Martin's weight loss and depression? If depression, was it his realization that he was stuck in Portwenn as a GP and that Louisa and James really weren't enought to offset that? Any thoughts?

    I believe that we are meant to think that, now a couple weeks past the wedding, the "honeymoon" is over, and the realities of his situation begin to be felt. His bachelor, almost monastic, life style is a thing of the past, and it was his major way of feeling in control. Now he is no longer in control of his environment, and he and Louisa still have real differences and don't fit together very well. And he is "stuck" in Portwenn. I don't think he brings any of this into his conscious mind, but displaces it onto his anxiety disorder resurfacing (probably never went away entirely).
    Mofromco wrote: »
    My reply is actually to your longer post, New Park, but I don't know how to highlight pertinent parts. I disagree that there is not a discrete incident that accounts for DMs blood phobia. The writers have made shown it throughout the series....and seemed to hone it to almost a specific time frame in S6E8. There are hints...the cupboard under the stairs, spankings, Grandpa Henry giving him a frog to dissect when he was 5 years old. Breaking glass....in the bad dream and when he dropped the plate when his Mother visited...the frog on the stairs and finally Ruth's suggestion of a lovely 4 year old versus the shut down 6 year old that she saw later. I believe that there was some sort of large trauma in that time frame.

    I do agree that I don't think he has Asperger's in that he actually can have empathy and is able to adapt to changes in functional ways. He functions on a bit of a higher plane than I have seen in my practice as a Pediatrician. Talk therapy....in essence psychotherapy to relive the past and the trauma seems to be the first line to me. I just wonder what modern professionals do to recall something that has been repressed. In corny old movies, they would use hypnosis, but Martin seems like a horrible candidate for that, as would I . We both have a hyper alert status..impossible to hypnotize. Otherwise, what to do? Talk therapy would be my guess and that could be some juicy material for the writers.

    I agree that the writers are pointing in that direction. But I don't think the theory is that there is one specific incident buried somewhere that triggers a phobia at some later point. My own view is that there is a general anxiety that gets "bound up" in a specific phobia. Maybe there is something one has been cautious of, or have had a negative experience with in the past, and that becomes the point around which the phobia develops. Also, usually, they don't come on as suddenly and dramatically as DM's is supposed to have.

    I deeply distrust therapies that depend on recalling "repressed memories." Not saying that memories are never repressed, but there was a great deal of abuse of that concept about 20 years ago, when many therapists were recovering all kinds of repressed memories of childhood sexual abuse. "Memory" is a lot less certain than that. And also in my experience, childhood sexual abuse is often right there, in the forefront. You really don't have to probe very far to get at it. And unbelievably common.

    That said, there is another kind of therapy, called EMDR, which is pretty good at dealing with memories of traumatic incidents, and also phobias, that are causing a lot of discomfort. It's worth googling, but I won't go into it here. But I don't think that treatment of his specific phobia is his most pressing problem at this point.

    The kind of talk therapy that you are thinking about does work, and may provide some immediate relief, but real change takes a while, and their marriage is in need of assistance immediately. If it waits until talk therapy improves him... a lot of not-so-good things can happen in that period of time, to that relationship. But that's just my view. There's also no reason that one can't do both. I agree that he needs it; it won't be at all easy for him, though (or for his therapist).

    It may be that Louisa would say that as long as he was getting help, she would stick around. But I think we agree that Louisa also needs to work on some of her issues, and again, I think joint therapy, couples counseling, might be the fastest way to get her to that realization.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    Lizzie_cUS wrote: »
    No, I just threw that out there after re-watching some of W&M and would agree that S3 is the personality that shows DM in the light we would all like to see him in not necessarily W&M. I personally can't stand Julie Graham so I didn't care for the show.
    Zarwen wrote: »
    Not a big fan of hers either, but it's because she always plays such obnoxious characters (IMHO). :)

    I didn't like Julie Graham in W & M. couldn't understand why W. would want to be with her at all. Except for the sex I guess.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    Paperchase wrote: »
    Sorry it's been awhile. I've been reading, but haven't had time to keep up!

    I think DM pointed out the direction of Series 7 when he asked Louisa to TEACH him how to be a husband.(Prior to the surgery)OK, she was under the effects of midazolam/fentanyl (anesthesthetics) but I think, he is going to rely on her to cue him.

    Louisa has been his coach and teacher on how to be a father to JH. So far, all her instincts have been correct. He knows now that his own parents were not good role models.

    Now that Louisa has met Margaret Ellingham, she will never sugarcoat Martin's childhood. She may be more understanding of why DM is the way he is.

    It would be really interesting if LE as a teacher, encounters a child, very similar to DM. A student who currently is being abused verbally, emotionally, and physically. Seeing a child who is bullied and abused(like another Peter Kronk)may help her to explore DM's childhood. LE may have a lot more empathy and insight into how painful DM's life was. She may come out of the experience loving her husband more and not asking him to change.
    As the head mistress, she stood up to a domineering mother. The child's mother is so outraged, she tries to have LE fired.

    Welcome back Paperchase! Nice to hear your POV again. :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    Paperchase wrote: »
    What's in a name? That which we call a Rose would smell as sweet by any other name.One day I started to think about the names and their characters on the DM show. First names do have meaning at least for PB and MC. I started to guess about some of the characters and their meaning. I also went through interviews where he explained names of animals. This is what I came up with. I really would appreciate any input.
    These name origins could then be added to the Portwenn site.

    Adieu******************************

    Martin Christopher Ellingham (from Dominic Minghella's came scrambled)
    Louisa (PB's thoroughbred Bee's foal's name is Alice Marie Louise) Glasson: from Glasgow
    Bert Large (Larger) Beer
    Al Large (Al is Short for Albert)
    Put the name together: Albert

    Margaret Ellingham: (Named after Princess Margaret: for the type of life she led- life of the party, scandalous, feeling cheated)

    Doctor Ruth (Advise): Dr. Ruth Westheimer the advise guru
    Auntie Joan:?
    Christopher: Christopher Robin Milne was born August 21, 1920 in Chelsea. (His father, despite the affability which his children's books suggest, was distant, with his one and only son. In keeping with Middle Class English tradition in the 1920's, Christopher Robin was brought up by a Nanny who looked after him most of the day. He was taken formally downstairs three times a day to visit his parents. Small, shy and unself possessed, Christopher Milne was clever with his hands. He loved sewing, knitting and making tapestry pictures. He dismantled (clocks)and locks, rigged up burglar alarms, and even turned a toy pistol into a dangerous weapon.

    James Henry: Son, named after their (Dog)
    Stewart James= Jimmy Stewart, actor
    PC Penhale
    Edith Montgomery (EM’s Initials are Mirror Opposite of ME) It shows the type of character ME would choose when he was younger, A person who would mirror him precisely, but would be a female version of Martin himself.
    Peter Kronk: Krank: german name for sick

    Louisa is Dominic Minghella's daughter's name.
    Anthony was his much loved and famous brother's name.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/dominic-minghella-puccini-movie-372939?mobile_redirect=false

    This was a list of new projects Dominic Minghella was working on when it was written in late 2012. I wonder if any of them have come to fruition?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    Lizzie_cUS wrote: »
    Throw rotten tomatoes or eggs at me if you must, but I hated the first wedding dress and updo. Made L look too much like a Barbie doll IMHO.

    I liked the second dress better and it is amazing with all of the delicate lace on the arms that that damned tattoo didn't show through, especially in the close up scene with her left side (sorry, I just really despise tattoos on women, especially when they are on arms or hands).

    I guess I prefer more of a 30's era romantic style...and the dress for the second wedding seems to fit better with the overall look of the sets, the village and the characters though set in modern times (today).

    Yes, I agree. :)

    The only time I liked LGs hair up was in s1 (I think) when LG walked straight past DM at the church door and he says :"ah, Louisa, you're looking....straight through me". Ahhhh those were the days.
  • ZarwenZarwen Posts: 249
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    cc.cookie wrote: »
    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/dominic-minghella-puccini-movie-372939?mobile_redirect=false

    This was a list of new projects Dominic Minghella was working on when it was written in late 2012. I wonder if any of them have come to fruition?

    Not according to IMDB.com.
  • ZarwenZarwen Posts: 249
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    cc.cookie wrote: »
    Yes, I agree. :)

    The only time I liked LGs hair up was in s1 (I think) when LG walked straight past DM at the church door and he says :"ah, Louisa, you're looking....straight through me". Ahhhh those were the days.

    Yes, I noticed that every time LG wore the "Gibson pocket," the day ended in disaster.
  • ZarwenZarwen Posts: 249
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    cc.cookie wrote: »
    It looks like it will air in 2014. I will keep an eye out for it but am sure it is on the net somewhere-MC has really long hair and is chubby so it must be old.

    The article is dated Dec. 3, 2013. I think they just used an old publicity photo of MC :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    Mofromco wrote: »
    My reply is actually to your longer post, New Park, but I don't know how to highlight pertinent parts. I disagree that there is not a discrete incident that accounts for DMs blood phobia. The writers have made shown it throughout the series....and seemed to hone it to almost a specific time frame in S6E8. There are hints...the cupboard under the stairs, spankings, Grandpa Henry giving him a frog to dissect when he was 5 years old. Breaking glass....in the bad dream and when he dropped the plate when his Mother visited...the frog on the stairs and finally Ruth's suggestion of a lovely 4 year old versus the shut down 6 year old that she saw later. I believe that there was some sort of large trauma in that time frame.

    I do agree that I don't think he has Asperger's in that he actually can have empathy and is able to adapt to changes in functional ways. He functions on a bit of a higher plane than I have seen in my practice as a Pediatrician. Talk therapy....in essence psychotherapy to relive the past and the trauma seems to be the first line to me. I just wonder what modern professionals do to recall something that has been repressed. In corny old movies, they would use hypnosis, but Martin seems like a horrible candidate for that, as would I . We both have a hyper alert status..impossible to hypnotize. Otherwise, what to do? Talk therapy would be my guess and that could be some juicy material for the writers.

    NewPark can confirm this but they don't bother going back to find the cause of the trauma now. It doesn't serve any purpose. They either give exposure therapy (basically what DM did before) or cognative behaviour therapy or the latest mindfulness combined with acceptance and commitment therapy.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    cc.cookie wrote: »
    It looks like it will air in 2014. I will keep an eye out for it but am sure it is on the net somewhere-MC has really long hair and is chubby so it must be old.
    Mofromco wrote: »
    That's the Isles of Britain. I don't think the Isles of Oz exists yet. Sounds like a big project for the next few months, after Nativity 3.
    http://www.tvtonight.com.au/2013/12/martin-clunes-to-front-seven-doco-series.html

    It looks like Australia is going to get the Islands treatment. Oh my, I would love to see it when it airs. cc.cookie, are you there?

    Wow! I think you are right. It hadn't been made yet. That means MC is coming to Australia. The exciting thing is that this is being produced for and aired by Chanel 7 one of our commercial stations. DM and all MC other shows and docos are usually aired on the public tv station ABC. I guess he's getting popular in Australia now too! I will chase this up on Monday and see if I can discover filming dates.

    Thanks for that Susie.
  • MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    cc.cookie wrote: »
    NewPark can confirm this but they don't bother going back to find the cause of the trauma now. It doesn't serve any purpose. They either give exposure therapy (basically what DM did before) or cognative behaviour therapy or the latest mindfulness combined with acceptance and commitment therapy.


    I don't think that the writers and powers that be will be able to bypass the drama of the situation. Being realistic, they would bypass all the past psychodrama and go right for the re establishment of functionality. In this case, though, it is a television program and they will go for all the angst and drama they can produce. I predict in S7 that we will see, or be told about, in great detail that scenario.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    Lizzie_cUS wrote: »
    What about the two times he cut the inside of his hand? Once in S4 and again in S6? In S4 on broken glass and in S6 by grabbing the knife blade of the psycho guy? Plot device or absolutely no meaning whatsoever? Sorry I keep coming back to that, but it's something that has nagged at me and there's never been any clear answer or reason given.

    Yes it "healed" really quickly on both occasions so difficult to see why such a point was made of it. Except from the point of view that for a surgeon to cut his hands is hugely worrying.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    NewPark wrote: »
    I believe that we are meant to think that, now a couple weeks past the wedding, the "honeymoon" is over, and the realities of his situation begin to be felt. His bachelor, almost monastic, life style is a thing of the past, and it was his major way of feeling in control. Now he is no longer in control of his environment, and he and Louisa still have real differences and don't fit together very well. And he is "stuck" in Portwenn. I don't think he brings any of this into his conscious mind, but displaces it onto his anxiety disorder resurfacing (probably never went away entirely).



    I agree that the writers are pointing in that direction. But I don't think the theory is that there is one specific incident buried somewhere that triggers a phobia at some later point. My own view is that there is a general anxiety that gets "bound up" in a specific phobia. Maybe there is something one has been cautious of, or have had a negative experience with in the past, and that becomes the point around which the phobia develops. Also, usually, they don't come on as suddenly and dramatically as DM's is supposed to have.

    I deeply distrust therapies that depend on recalling "repressed memories." Not saying that memories are never repressed, but there was a great deal of abuse of that concept about 20 years ago, when many therapists were recovering all kinds of repressed memories of childhood sexual abuse. "Memory" is a lot less certain than that. And also in my experience, childhood sexual abuse is often right there, in the forefront. You really don't have to probe very far to get at it. And unbelievably common.

    That said, there is another kind of therapy, called EMDR, which is pretty good at dealing with memories of traumatic incidents, and also phobias, that are causing a lot of discomfort. It's worth googling, but I won't go into it here. But I don't think that treatment of his specific phobia is his most pressing problem at this point.

    The kind of talk therapy that you are thinking about does work, and may provide some immediate relief, but real change takes a while, and their marriage is in need of assistance immediately. If it waits until talk therapy improves him... a lot of not-so-good things can happen in that period of time, to that relationship. But that's just my view. There's also no reason that one can't do both. I agree that he needs it; it won't be at all easy for him, though (or for his therapist).

    It may be that Louisa would say that as long as he was getting help, she would stick around. But I think we agree that Louisa also needs to work on some of her issues, and again, I think joint therapy, couples counseling, might be the fastest way to get her to that realization.

    Thanks for that NewPark.
    Sorry I put my 2c worth in while I was going through the last 4 pages, catching up and didn't see your reply till it was too late to delete mine.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    Mofromco wrote: »
    I don't think that the writers and powers that be will be able to bypass the drama of the situation. Being realistic, they would bypass all the past psychodrama and go right for the re establishment of functionality. In this case, though, it is a television program and they will go for all the angst and drama they can produce. I predict in S7 that we will see, or be told about, in great detail that scenario.

    Gosh I hope not! Wouldn't it be really depressing? I hope they get back to a light happy tone in s7. Fingers crossed.
  • MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    cc.cookie wrote: »
    Gosh I hope not! Wouldn't it be really depressing? I hope they get back to a light happy tone in s7. Fingers crossed.

    No, I want to see or hear every detail of that event...the catharsis would be incredible....the realization that the reaction to blood has a source and when the source of the phobia can be eliminated he can move on. I predict that the first couple of episodes could be taken up with his working on this. It wouldn't be depressing..it would be necessary and uplifting. And, his behavior patterns are too ingrained for him to change his basic personality...we don't want that. But we do want him to alter his relationship with Louisa and James, because the way he was functioning at the end of S6 is not going to work.
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