Some areas that still get good 252 reception, e.g. Aberystwyth, are not going to be covered by D2. But I've no idea how many people in practice would lose out if D2 is proposed as the solution to this problem.
Some areas that still get good 252 reception, e.g. Aberystwyth, are not going to be covered by D2. But I've no idea how many people in practice would lose out if D2 is proposed as the solution to this problem.
Some areas around Aberystwyth may be able to tune into RTE on FM. Anglesey gets quite good coverage of Irish radio on FM.
It's been said many times before in various DS threads on the subject (not least by me) but if you still find the notion of RTE consulting on the closure of its LW operation completely baffling in this modern age, pause for a moment and promise to be on your best behaviour while you consider the following...
RTE's LW audience is a dying breed (literally). It's largely made up of elderly ex-pat Irish living in the UK (and slightly beyond). In 2015, these survivors of the first wave of mass Irish emigration to the UK in the 1950s and 1960s still amount to a significant community in the tens of thousands. A couple of decades ago, you could have counted them in their hundreds of thousands. Those who now remain in that group are very - shall we say - stuck in their ways. And no doubt should any of us live into our 70s and 80s, we'll be no different.
Are you still on your best behaviour?
For many of these old dears and fellas living in the UK, being able to listen to RTE ("Radio Eireaan") on a transistor radio has been a way of life for decades. They've learned to put up with terrible reception - fading in and out, horrible tones rising up and down, interruption from foreign language stations - without complaint. They're old-fashioned people from a simpler time. These are the people who still unplug things at night for fear of fires. Flashing LED lights make them nervous. They never dare to stray beyond "4" on their TV remote control, terrified they'll never find their way back to ITV for Coronation Street.
No sniggering now.
Put simply: there are thousands of elderly ex-pat Irish in the UK who rely upon taking their ancient LW radio to bed with them at night, straining to hear an overnight repeat of a daytime RTE Radio 1 programme in among the hiss and crackle. They don't have the internet. Even if they did they'd be suspicious of it and unplug the router each night, never mind fiddling with an expensive Wifi radio that's fallen silent until you can work out how to install a software update... Telly no better: yes, RTE Radio 1 is on Virgin and Freesat right now, but what use is that to 78 year old Mary on her walking frame, or 80 year old Brendan?
I hope you're feeling sympathy by now and not scorn.
I'm sure that on Tuesday, there was an army of visiting sons/grandsons, daughters/grandaughters relaying RTE1's coverage of the St Patrick's Day parade in Dublin to an elderly Irish relative in the UK, streamed via 4G or wifi on a smartphone, tablet, ipad, laptop, etc. I'm sure they enjoyed it and marvelled at the power of all these "new-fangled" things... but when old Fred or Myra is all alone again, all they have to turn to is LW 252.
The sad fact is that RTE need only budget for another five or so years to continue LW 252, after which time the remaining ex-pat audience will be much less significant to justify its closure. The vast majority will no longer be with us. RTE is unfortunate with its premature timing, that's all.
My final thought: Just as we respect our old soldiers in the UK, RTE should continue to salute all those who were forced into immigration, but who bolstered the Irish economy by sending money back home all those years ago. It won't affect the production or acquisiton of the cliched rubbish you pump out into the contemporary Irish TV/radio domestic market. Five years hence... no-one will make any fuss.
The sad fact is that RTE need only budget for another five or so years to continue LW 252, after which time the remaining ex-pat audience will be much less significant to justify its closure. The vast majority will no longer be with us. RTE is unfortunate with its premature timing, that's all.
Is there not a bit of politics where the Irish government reduced the payments for elderly and disadvantaged licence fees so RTE has to make cuts to make up the shortfall and cutting the expensive LW tx is one. From the tgovernment debate in another thread RTE are asking the Government to pay direct for LW but the Government do not want to do this. so RTE are looking at cheaper alternatives such as D2 DAB?
Quotation by Heather Humphreys, Ireland's Heritage Minister:
“You can listen to a lot of radio on your iPhone but of course they want to have it on the radio,” she said. “Although having said that, my own mother can manage to use these iPhones so maybe we’re underestimating them in many respects.”
Just goes to show how far from reality these idiots live.
They'll also need to address the reception problems in Northern Ireland when long wave closes.
Reception isn't great on FM around parts of Belfast and East Antrim where there are large nationalist communities.
If they aren't going to use the local mux (which is now filling up with Bauer stations) then what about local FM transmitters ?
I'm not even sure the listen 2 digital network covers NI, and if it does it's only limited to a couple of transmitters.
I think this has been raised in the Dáíl.
The only thing I can see RTE doing in the near future is adding RTE radio to their Freeview mux from Divis. They have failed to address the FM issue around Belfast and unforgivably have been directing people in the north towards Saorsat when asked about reception problems. Personally I don't think they care, so don't expect too much.
Some areas that still get good 252 reception, e.g. Aberystwyth, are not going to be covered by D2. But I've no idea how many people in practice would lose out if D2 is proposed as the solution to this problem.
And how many people in Aberystwyth absolutely must listen to RTE (without paying them anything for it) but who can't put up a satellite dish or use the internet?
The only thing I can see RTE doing in the near future is adding RTE radio to their Freeview mux from Divis. They have failed to address the FM issue around Belfast and unforgivably have been directing people in the north towards Saorsat when asked about reception problems. Personally I don't think they care, so don't expect too much.
Indeed, I suppose you're correct given most of the ROI can't receive DAB so why should they bother with the north.
Post DSO Saorview does penetrate quite a way into NI. I also remember something about additional radio stations on the NI mux as well.
I doubt anyone will even bother with Saorsat as RTE Radio One, Radio Two, Lyric FM,, R NaG, and Newstalk are all available across the UK on the Sky/Freesat platforms.
As always, the problem is getting it into the car. Now if only there were Car/portable radios running subscription free off the 3G/4G network the problem would be solved.
I also can't see why the power of the DAB transmitter at Clermont Cairn can't be increased and the aerial system improved with the null to the north removed. Surely that wouldn't cost much to implement ?
Afaik in Denmark the government took over paying for the 243khz transmitter ? RTE have stated that they wiil run 252 at reduced hours next year 2016. i presume this means from 7am - 7pm ?
For many of these old dears and fellas living in the UK, being able to listen to RTE ("Radio Eireaan") on a transistor radio has been a way of life for decades.
RTE has only been on 252 since 2002. A while, agreed, but hardly 'decades'. Before that, 567 covered a much smaller area.
Put simply: there are thousands of elderly ex-pat Irish in the UK who rely upon taking their ancient LW radio to bed with them at night, straining to hear an overnight repeat of a daytime RTE Radio 1 programme in among the hiss and crackle.
So let's give them RTE without the hiss, crackle and mixing from Algeria.
They don't have the internet. Even if they did they'd be suspicious of it and unplug the router each night, never mind fiddling with an expensive Wifi radio that's fallen silent until you can work out how to install a software update...
Agreed. So use DAB, a technology many old people are using quite happily already. It's actually easier than analogue radio in so much as they can switch away to Radio Two, or BBC Local or Smooth or whatever and then find good old RTE again simply by flicking through the station list. Much easier than wifi, routers, etc
Telly no better: yes, RTE Radio 1 is on Virgin and Freesat right now, but what use is that to 78 year old Mary on her walking frame, or 80 year old Brendan?
It depends if they have cable or satellite. Both are actually quite easy to use and have lots of elderly users. For those without, what about putting RTE on Freeview. Very easy to use and every old person with a TV is already using it. I'm sure older people could cope quite well with the instruction 'press 752 for RTE radio, then press 3 to go back to ITV for Corrie'
I've checked and freeview 752 is sat empty. Just ready for a '752 is the new 252 campaign'
The sad fact is that RTE need only budget for another five or so years to continue LW 252, after which time the remaining ex-pat audience will be much less significant to justify its closure. The vast majority will no longer be with us. RTE is unfortunate with its premature timing, that's all.
Five years hence... no-one will make any fuss.
Well I particularly dislike the idea of simply waiting for the audience to die off. You quoted the example of a 78 year old woman Mary. She might very well be around in five years time, aged 83, perhaps less mobile than ever. What then? Do we simply send her a letter saying hurry up and die please- we are waiting to turn the transmitter off.
There is still available capacity for hire on D2 via SoundDigital which is not already contracted. RTE could still use that for DAB+.
TBH I don't think that the Irish community in the UK should complain too much about the idea.
- They are not Irish Licence Fee payers. They'd still have the means of receiving RTE Radio 1 on a portable radio without having to pay for an internet connection (which seems to be the main complaint why WiFi radios are not acceptable) which means RTE are meeting their commitment to provide a service to the ex-pat community.
- SoundDigital will cover all the main cities, particularly ones where there are big Irish ex-pat concentrations (Liverpool, Glasgow, London, Birmingham, Manchester). It will also be receivable on car radios.
- Yes they'd need new radios, but at least it doesn't an involve ongoing financial commitment. Aside from making a service available, does RTE really have an obligation to keep serving old equipment? How far does responsibility go for what is a cash-strapped organisation? (I always consider the purchasing of equipment in order to access a particular service ultimately the responsibility of the person who wants to listen to that service).
- I think £80 for a new radio for open ended access to a service you really value 24/7 is actually pretty good value. There are more DAB+ radios on sale nowadays than LW radios probably....
- DAB+ will be clear sound reproduction unaffected by domestic interference, fading and foreign stations. LW is being abandoned elsewhere for these reasons.
So the only real issue is perhaps the information campaign and helping older listeners understand what they need to do. I'd bet they's be OK with the new radio purchase as long as someone got it set up and working for them.
Yes good case for DAB there. And for older listeners with no family nearby most cities with large Irish populations have Irish community centres where I'm sure one of the younger members would be happy to help.
- DAB+ will be clear sound reproduction unaffected by domestic interference, fading and foreign stations. LW is being abandoned elsewhere for these reasons.
DAB+? It's DAB, is it not? And on small portables that many people use, far more people will suffer worse burbling interference and intermittent cutoffs in some parts of the house than they do from LW, MW or even FM portables interference. DAB portables also suffer from appallingly high battery drain in comparison.
So the only real issue is perhaps the information campaign and helping older listeners understand what they need to do. I'd bet they's be OK with the new radio purchase as long as someone got it set up and working for them.
So who's going to fund their new radio purchase, and replace it again if they have the kind of problems I mentioned above? Not to mention the very poor battery life. I have to suffer those issues, and I live in the middle of the 7th. (nearly 6th.) largest urban area in the UK with my house in line of sight of the main Rowridge transmitter. So I reverted to my old LW/MW/FM portables.
DAB+? It's DAB, is it not? And on small portables that many people use, far more people will suffer worse burbling interference and intermittent cutoffs in some parts of the house than they do from LW, MW or even FM portables interference. DAB portables also suffer from appallingly high battery drain in comparison.
So who's going to fund their new radio purchase, and replace it again if they have the kind of problems I mentioned above? Not to mention the very poor battery life. I have to suffer those issues, and I live in the middle of the 7th. (nearly 6th.) largest urban area in the UK with my house in line of sight of the main Rowridge transmitter. So I reverted to my old LW/MW/FM portables.
The proposal was for RTE (and some other stations) to use DAB+ on the Digital 2 multiplex. That bid didn't win though. I think the winners proposal is for one station to be DAB+ at launch.
The proposal was for RTE (and some other stations) to use DAB+ on the Digital 2 multiplex. That bid didn't win though. I think the winners proposal is for one station to be DAB+ at launch.
Sound Digital (the winners) state in their bid that they have spare capacity for further stations available. They only list the stations contracted pre-bid submission, but Arqiva can sell the further space available commercially to whoever - including stations that were in the losing bid.
DAB+? It's DAB, is it not? And on small portables that many people use, far more people will suffer worse burbling interference and intermittent cutoffs in some parts of the house than they do from LW, MW or even FM portables interference. DAB portables also suffer from appallingly high battery drain in comparison.
So who's going to fund their new radio purchase, and replace it again if they have the kind of problems I mentioned above? Not to mention the very poor battery life. I have to suffer those issues, and I live in the middle of the 7th. (nearly 6th.) largest urban area in the UK with my house in line of sight of the main Rowridge transmitter. So I reverted to my old LW/MW/FM portables.
DAB+ has more rugged reception than DAB. LW has appalling problems in the domestic environment due to noise. All radio bands have their own particular reception problems - they are not exclusive to DAB. Who funds a new radio purchase if you can only get reception by hanging your FM telescopic out the window for example?
You have your example. My example is that LW and MW are impossible to receive around the house due to interference, whereas DAB has clear reception everywhere.
Comments
Some areas around Aberystwyth may be able to tune into RTE on FM. Anglesey gets quite good coverage of Irish radio on FM.
Still it would be good if RTE was on Freeview as well as DAB. That would satisfy pretty much everyone.
RTE's LW audience is a dying breed (literally). It's largely made up of elderly ex-pat Irish living in the UK (and slightly beyond). In 2015, these survivors of the first wave of mass Irish emigration to the UK in the 1950s and 1960s still amount to a significant community in the tens of thousands. A couple of decades ago, you could have counted them in their hundreds of thousands. Those who now remain in that group are very - shall we say - stuck in their ways. And no doubt should any of us live into our 70s and 80s, we'll be no different.
Are you still on your best behaviour?
For many of these old dears and fellas living in the UK, being able to listen to RTE ("Radio Eireaan") on a transistor radio has been a way of life for decades. They've learned to put up with terrible reception - fading in and out, horrible tones rising up and down, interruption from foreign language stations - without complaint. They're old-fashioned people from a simpler time. These are the people who still unplug things at night for fear of fires. Flashing LED lights make them nervous. They never dare to stray beyond "4" on their TV remote control, terrified they'll never find their way back to ITV for Coronation Street.
No sniggering now.
Put simply: there are thousands of elderly ex-pat Irish in the UK who rely upon taking their ancient LW radio to bed with them at night, straining to hear an overnight repeat of a daytime RTE Radio 1 programme in among the hiss and crackle. They don't have the internet. Even if they did they'd be suspicious of it and unplug the router each night, never mind fiddling with an expensive Wifi radio that's fallen silent until you can work out how to install a software update... Telly no better: yes, RTE Radio 1 is on Virgin and Freesat right now, but what use is that to 78 year old Mary on her walking frame, or 80 year old Brendan?
I hope you're feeling sympathy by now and not scorn.
I'm sure that on Tuesday, there was an army of visiting sons/grandsons, daughters/grandaughters relaying RTE1's coverage of the St Patrick's Day parade in Dublin to an elderly Irish relative in the UK, streamed via 4G or wifi on a smartphone, tablet, ipad, laptop, etc. I'm sure they enjoyed it and marvelled at the power of all these "new-fangled" things... but when old Fred or Myra is all alone again, all they have to turn to is LW 252.
The sad fact is that RTE need only budget for another five or so years to continue LW 252, after which time the remaining ex-pat audience will be much less significant to justify its closure. The vast majority will no longer be with us. RTE is unfortunate with its premature timing, that's all.
My final thought: Just as we respect our old soldiers in the UK, RTE should continue to salute all those who were forced into immigration, but who bolstered the Irish economy by sending money back home all those years ago. It won't affect the production or acquisiton of the cliched rubbish you pump out into the contemporary Irish TV/radio domestic market. Five years hence... no-one will make any fuss.
Reception isn't great on FM around parts of Belfast and East Antrim where there are large nationalist communities.
If they aren't going to use the local mux (which is now filling up with Bauer stations) then what about local FM transmitters ?
I'm not even sure the listen 2 digital network covers NI, and if it does it's only limited to a couple of transmitters.
I think this has been raised in the Dáíl.
Just goes to show how far from reality these idiots live.
The only thing I can see RTE doing in the near future is adding RTE radio to their Freeview mux from Divis. They have failed to address the FM issue around Belfast and unforgivably have been directing people in the north towards Saorsat when asked about reception problems. Personally I don't think they care, so don't expect too much.
And how many people in Aberystwyth absolutely must listen to RTE (without paying them anything for it) but who can't put up a satellite dish or use the internet?
Indeed, I suppose you're correct given most of the ROI can't receive DAB so why should they bother with the north.
Post DSO Saorview does penetrate quite a way into NI. I also remember something about additional radio stations on the NI mux as well.
I doubt anyone will even bother with Saorsat as RTE Radio One, Radio Two, Lyric FM,, R NaG, and Newstalk are all available across the UK on the Sky/Freesat platforms.
As always, the problem is getting it into the car. Now if only there were Car/portable radios running subscription free off the 3G/4G network the problem would be solved.
I also can't see why the power of the DAB transmitter at Clermont Cairn can't be increased and the aerial system improved with the null to the north removed. Surely that wouldn't cost much to implement ?
RTE has only been on 252 since 2002. A while, agreed, but hardly 'decades'. Before that, 567 covered a much smaller area.
So let's give them RTE without the hiss, crackle and mixing from Algeria.
Agreed. So use DAB, a technology many old people are using quite happily already. It's actually easier than analogue radio in so much as they can switch away to Radio Two, or BBC Local or Smooth or whatever and then find good old RTE again simply by flicking through the station list. Much easier than wifi, routers, etc
It depends if they have cable or satellite. Both are actually quite easy to use and have lots of elderly users. For those without, what about putting RTE on Freeview. Very easy to use and every old person with a TV is already using it. I'm sure older people could cope quite well with the instruction 'press 752 for RTE radio, then press 3 to go back to ITV for Corrie'
I've checked and freeview 752 is sat empty. Just ready for a '752 is the new 252 campaign'
Well I particularly dislike the idea of simply waiting for the audience to die off. You quoted the example of a 78 year old woman Mary. She might very well be around in five years time, aged 83, perhaps less mobile than ever. What then? Do we simply send her a letter saying hurry up and die please- we are waiting to turn the transmitter off.
The service on Longwave 252 will be unavailable from 10 am on Monday 23rd March until 5.30pm on Wednesday 25th March.
This is due to essential maintenance of the transmitter.
Where is here? 252 is silent (well, noisy but no programme) in Edinburgh today.
Central Ireland. Not just me.
If you're in a built up area, reception will not be as good
A DX contact of mine in Cork says RTE is affected throughout the day by Algeria, though the situation as days get longer may be different.
Algeria strong here at the moment though there is a deep null on it
TBH I don't think that the Irish community in the UK should complain too much about the idea.
- They are not Irish Licence Fee payers. They'd still have the means of receiving RTE Radio 1 on a portable radio without having to pay for an internet connection (which seems to be the main complaint why WiFi radios are not acceptable) which means RTE are meeting their commitment to provide a service to the ex-pat community.
- SoundDigital will cover all the main cities, particularly ones where there are big Irish ex-pat concentrations (Liverpool, Glasgow, London, Birmingham, Manchester). It will also be receivable on car radios.
- Yes they'd need new radios, but at least it doesn't an involve ongoing financial commitment. Aside from making a service available, does RTE really have an obligation to keep serving old equipment? How far does responsibility go for what is a cash-strapped organisation? (I always consider the purchasing of equipment in order to access a particular service ultimately the responsibility of the person who wants to listen to that service).
- I think £80 for a new radio for open ended access to a service you really value 24/7 is actually pretty good value. There are more DAB+ radios on sale nowadays than LW radios probably....
- DAB+ will be clear sound reproduction unaffected by domestic interference, fading and foreign stations. LW is being abandoned elsewhere for these reasons.
So the only real issue is perhaps the information campaign and helping older listeners understand what they need to do. I'd bet they's be OK with the new radio purchase as long as someone got it set up and working for them.
DAB+? It's DAB, is it not? And on small portables that many people use, far more people will suffer worse burbling interference and intermittent cutoffs in some parts of the house than they do from LW, MW or even FM portables interference. DAB portables also suffer from appallingly high battery drain in comparison.
So who's going to fund their new radio purchase, and replace it again if they have the kind of problems I mentioned above? Not to mention the very poor battery life. I have to suffer those issues, and I live in the middle of the 7th. (nearly 6th.) largest urban area in the UK with my house in line of sight of the main Rowridge transmitter. So I reverted to my old LW/MW/FM portables.
The proposal was for RTE (and some other stations) to use DAB+ on the Digital 2 multiplex. That bid didn't win though. I think the winners proposal is for one station to be DAB+ at launch.
Sound Digital (the winners) state in their bid that they have spare capacity for further stations available. They only list the stations contracted pre-bid submission, but Arqiva can sell the further space available commercially to whoever - including stations that were in the losing bid.
DAB+ has more rugged reception than DAB. LW has appalling problems in the domestic environment due to noise. All radio bands have their own particular reception problems - they are not exclusive to DAB. Who funds a new radio purchase if you can only get reception by hanging your FM telescopic out the window for example?
You have your example. My example is that LW and MW are impossible to receive around the house due to interference, whereas DAB has clear reception everywhere.