Capitalism has helped everyone. Bar none. We are all absolutely better off than we were in living memory. Of course some are less well off relative to others. Most of those get supported and helped in a way that would have been unconscionable as recently as 50 years ago. The politics of envy are evident in the anti capitalist diatribes. You don't see people trying very hard to escape away from the west. Do you?
You only have to read a few memoirs of life in the fifties to realise how far we have come.
"Of course some are less well off relative to others." Wow, you really understate things, don't you? Under capitalism people struggle for the basics in life.
Food - 913,138 people in the UK were forced to visit a food bank between April 2013 to March 2014.
Homes - Around 185,000 people in England are affected by homelessness each year. 5 million people in the UK are reliant on housing benefit.
Jobs - UK unemployment rate is 6.2%. That's just under 2 million people without a job (and as you're so keen to compare today to 50 years ago that's double the rate it was back then). The jobs that are available, over 1.3 million of them are minimum wage jobs, aka slave labour.
That's just a few brief disgusting (at least to me) statistics - UK focused. I think I'll refrain from delving into things like how 85 people have as much wealth as half the Earth's population. Not that you'd care anyway, you're clearly quite content living with such inequality.
You say living a comfortable life, with the technology to share your thoughts with the world.
Terrible isn't it?
I wasn't comfortable for the first 17 odd years of my life. But hey, because I am now fortunate enough to live a fairly comfortable life under capitalism, I should just be thankful and turn a blind eye to and have complete disregard for the millions upon millions of people who aren't so lucky? Hmm, let me think about that... on one side we have compassion and desire for equality, on the other we have a self-centered c*nt. I think I'll stick with the former.
I wasn't comfortable for the first 17 odd years of my life. But hey, because I am now fortunate enough to live a fairly comfortable life under capitalism, I should just be thankful and turn a blind eye to and have complete disregard for the millions upon millions of people who aren't so lucky? Hmm, let me think about that... on one side we have compassion and desire for equality, on the other we have a self-centered c*nt. I think I'll stick with the former.
You live a comfortable life in a first world nation, you're the exact product of capitalism. Enjoying your life while millions/billions worldwide suffer. What are you doing to help these people, except moaning about it online? Lead by example. You're in the richest few percent of the world.
You live a comfortable life in a first world nation, you're the exact product of capitalism. Enjoying your life while millions/billions worldwide suffer. What are you doing to help these people, except moaning about it online? Lead by example. You're in the richest few percent of the world.
Unfortunately there's not an awful lot I can do to help these people. I think people in position of considerable power and multiple billion, trillion pound wealth are in a slightly better position than me to change the world, no?
Unfortunately there's not an awful lot I can do to help these people. I think people in position of considerable power and multiple billion, trillion pound wealth are in a slightly better position than me to change the world, no?
Yes the more money you have, the more potential you have to help others, however the fact is you're rich globally. You have benefited from capitalism at the expense of others less fortunate. I am sure if you made cutbacks and lived the most basic life you could, you could save dozens, if not hundreds of less fortunate people. You're moaning about capitalism, yet have directly benefited from it. You are one of the selfish and lucky few. Lead by example and don't be a hypocrite. You moan about rich people, yet there will be poor people moaning about you.
Yes the more money you have, the more potential you have to help others, however the fact is you're rich globally. You have benefited from capitalism at the expense of others less fortunate. I am sure if you made cutbacks and lived the most basic life you could, you could save dozens, if not hundreds of less fortunate people. You're moaning about capitalism, yet have directly benefited from it. You are one of the selfish and lucky few. Lead by example and don't be a hypocrite. You moan about rich people, yet there will be poor people moaning about you.
I'm not moaning, I'm criticising. The only way you can enlighten people is by criticising and pointing out the flaws and injustices of the system you want toppled.
Capitalism has brought us an almighty huge gulf between the rich and poor, centralised power structures, corrupt coporate enitites, and a message to society to be as greedy as possible. Well halle-bloody-lujah.
So very similar to Communism but less oppressive on the whole.
I'm not moaning, I'm criticising. The only way you can enlighten people is by criticising and pointing out the flaws and injustices of the system you want toppled.
I don't think that people need enlightening that there are rich people and that there are poor people. Considering you are very rich on a global scale, it seems a bit disingenuous to criticise a system that you have directly benefited from.
I think people often make the mistake of blaming the faults of political leadership on whatever economic system (which is nowadays going to be capitalism of some form) is in place.
Just look at companies. If you're working in a company that's failing, do you tend to blame the leadership or do you blame the traditional structure of a Western company? There are enough well run companies around to indicate that it's certainly possible to run one with that structure, so we tend to blame the leadership rather than the system.
The problem socialism has had is that the vast majority of experiments with it were performed during the Cold War period, and so outside forces were interfering with its introduction, often even the idea of introducing it in the first place, which we've all seen recently from places like Iraq and Afghanistan that this never works out well. Does anyone seriously think that the US would not interfere if any nation looked like they were going to become socialist?
I don't think that people need enlightening that there are rich people and that there are poor people. Considering you are very rich on a global scale, it seems a bit disingenuous to criticise a system that you have directly benefited from.
People need enlightening on exactly why there is a huge gulf between the rich and poor, and why that can change under new alternative systems. If everyone was enlightened of the true horrors of capitalism there would have been a revolution long ago.
Why do you keep mentioning I have benefited from capitalism? I'm well aware of this fact. I wasn't born in a 3rd world country and voluntarily moved to a country with a capitalist economic system in order to gain advantages over others. I was born here in the UK. I benefited from that moment - I didn't have a choice in that matter. Besides, if people who have benefited from a system are not allowed to criticise it or want to change it for the better, then who's left? I can't imagine 3rd world countries being able to start a global revolution.
Why have you directed your comparison between capitalism and communism towards me? Where on this thread have I advocated communism?
And where in my post did I direct it at you or say you advocated communism ? You described the effects of Capitalism I merely said that it was similar to Communism.
And where in my post did I direct it at you or say you advocated communism ? You described the effects of Capitalism I merely said that it was similar to Communism.
Never mind, I've clearly misunderstood you, my apologies.
People need enlightening on exactly why there is a huge gulf between the rich and poor, and why that can change under new alternative systems. If everyone was enlightened of the true horrors of capitalism there would have been a revolution long ago.
Why do you keep mentioning I have benefited from capitalism? I'm well aware of this fact. I wasn't born in a 3rd world country and voluntarily moved to a country with a capitalist economic system in order to gain advantages over others. I was born here in the UK. I benefited from that moment - I didn't have a choice in that matter. Besides, if people who have benefited from a system are not allowed to criticise it or want to change it for the better, then who's left? I can't imagine 3rd world countries being able to start a global revolution.
I think most people know why. You're not some kind of guru who knows better than everyone else. Most people don't necessarily agree with the alternative systems and certainly don't want a global revolution.
Pumping Iron, if I wasn't so cynical, I'd call your 'exchanger' out as a new identity for 'OLD HIPPY GUY', minus the SHOUTY CAPITAL post-ridden SYNDROME. That's only if he was banned, of course.
I think most people know why. You're not some kind of guru who knows better than everyone else. Most people don't necessarily agree with the alternative systems and certainly don't want a global revolution.
You clearly don't want change, governments, corporations & the rich don't want change, but most other people with a sense of humanity and compassion want a fair & egalitarian society. The only way that can be accomplished is through revolution on a global scale. It will happen sooner rather than later. The poor have been brushed aside for too long. You greedy, selfish, heartless ******* have been running the show for too long.
You clearly don't want change, governments, corporations & the rich don't want change, but most other people with a sense of humanity and compassion want a fair & egalitarian society. The only way that can be accomplished is through revolution on a global scale. It will happen sooner rather than later. The poor have been brushed aside for too long. You greedy, selfish, heartless ******* have been running the show for too long.
You clearly genuinely believe this. I don't think there's anything that can really be taken away from that, for better, or, for worse...
You clearly genuinely believe this. I don't think there's anything that can really be taken away from that, for better, or, for worse...
Yes, I genuinely believe one day the poor will stand up to the rich & powerful and create change. Quick, get me a straitjacket, I'm clearly a deranged lunatic hippy and definitely not just a normal person who believes in equality!
Why not? Socialism has failed its people everywhere it has been tried.
It's never been properly tried, the communist states were not in any sense true socialism.
Countries like the Nordic states where they get closer to socialism are much better places to live than somewhere like the USA which is terrible for a very large percentage of its population.
And why? Because we are all programmed for self advancement.
There has to be more to life than selfishness, at least the rampant selfishness that is seeing us wreck our planet. At least we can have a system where work is rewarded rather than one where those at the top (who usually don't work harder despite what they say) can earn 160 times the average of those beneath them.
Dawkins got that right in the selfish gene.
Sorry off topic but you obviously don't understand the selfish gene as put forward by Dawkins. It was not about selfishness in individuals at all, in fact the selfish gene in many species encourages co-operation not selfishness. The selfish gene is basically about looking at evolution as us being the way our genes are passed down rather than our genes being the way we are passed down.
Yes, I genuinely believe one day the poor will stand up to the rich & powerful and create change. Quick, get me a straitjacket, I'm clearly a deranged lunatic hippy and definitely not just a normal person who believes in equality!
And then create their own rich and powerful elite.
ISorry off topic but you obviously don't understand the selfish gene as put forward by Dawkins. It was not about selfishness in individuals at all, in fact the selfish gene in many species encourages co-operation not selfishness. The selfish gene is basically about looking at evolution as us being the way our genes are passed down rather than our genes being the way we are passed down.
The book is well worth reading.
Tell that to the 99% of Dawkins bashers on DS who obviously judge books by the cover. :roll:eyes:
I think most people know why. You're not some kind of guru who knows better than everyone else. Most people don't necessarily agree with the alternative systems and certainly don't want a global revolution.
I think most people do want a revolution, they just don't know how to bring it about.
Look at the widespread apathy and cynicism in UK politics, the rise of extremists and the people being suckered into supporting them. Massive discontent combined with massive cluelessness about what to do.
Comments
"Of course some are less well off relative to others." Wow, you really understate things, don't you? Under capitalism people struggle for the basics in life.
Food - 913,138 people in the UK were forced to visit a food bank between April 2013 to March 2014.
Homes - Around 185,000 people in England are affected by homelessness each year. 5 million people in the UK are reliant on housing benefit.
Jobs - UK unemployment rate is 6.2%. That's just under 2 million people without a job (and as you're so keen to compare today to 50 years ago that's double the rate it was back then). The jobs that are available, over 1.3 million of them are minimum wage jobs, aka slave labour.
That's just a few brief disgusting (at least to me) statistics - UK focused. I think I'll refrain from delving into things like how 85 people have as much wealth as half the Earth's population. Not that you'd care anyway, you're clearly quite content living with such inequality.
I wasn't comfortable for the first 17 odd years of my life. But hey, because I am now fortunate enough to live a fairly comfortable life under capitalism, I should just be thankful and turn a blind eye to and have complete disregard for the millions upon millions of people who aren't so lucky? Hmm, let me think about that... on one side we have compassion and desire for equality, on the other we have a self-centered c*nt. I think I'll stick with the former.
You live a comfortable life in a first world nation, you're the exact product of capitalism. Enjoying your life while millions/billions worldwide suffer. What are you doing to help these people, except moaning about it online? Lead by example. You're in the richest few percent of the world.
Unfortunately there's not an awful lot I can do to help these people. I think people in position of considerable power and multiple billion, trillion pound wealth are in a slightly better position than me to change the world, no?
Yes the more money you have, the more potential you have to help others, however the fact is you're rich globally. You have benefited from capitalism at the expense of others less fortunate. I am sure if you made cutbacks and lived the most basic life you could, you could save dozens, if not hundreds of less fortunate people. You're moaning about capitalism, yet have directly benefited from it. You are one of the selfish and lucky few. Lead by example and don't be a hypocrite. You moan about rich people, yet there will be poor people moaning about you.
I'm not moaning, I'm criticising. The only way you can enlighten people is by criticising and pointing out the flaws and injustices of the system you want toppled.
So very similar to Communism but less oppressive on the whole.
Why have you directed your comparison between capitalism and communism towards me? Where on this thread have I advocated communism?
Probably because evey time socialism gets mentioned people immediately confuse it with communism... as has been demonstrated in this thread.
I haven't mentioned socialism either so I still don't know why you quoted me, but whatever.
I don't think that people need enlightening that there are rich people and that there are poor people. Considering you are very rich on a global scale, it seems a bit disingenuous to criticise a system that you have directly benefited from.
Just look at companies. If you're working in a company that's failing, do you tend to blame the leadership or do you blame the traditional structure of a Western company? There are enough well run companies around to indicate that it's certainly possible to run one with that structure, so we tend to blame the leadership rather than the system.
The problem socialism has had is that the vast majority of experiments with it were performed during the Cold War period, and so outside forces were interfering with its introduction, often even the idea of introducing it in the first place, which we've all seen recently from places like Iraq and Afghanistan that this never works out well. Does anyone seriously think that the US would not interfere if any nation looked like they were going to become socialist?
People need enlightening on exactly why there is a huge gulf between the rich and poor, and why that can change under new alternative systems. If everyone was enlightened of the true horrors of capitalism there would have been a revolution long ago.
Why do you keep mentioning I have benefited from capitalism? I'm well aware of this fact. I wasn't born in a 3rd world country and voluntarily moved to a country with a capitalist economic system in order to gain advantages over others. I was born here in the UK. I benefited from that moment - I didn't have a choice in that matter. Besides, if people who have benefited from a system are not allowed to criticise it or want to change it for the better, then who's left? I can't imagine 3rd world countries being able to start a global revolution.
And where in my post did I direct it at you or say you advocated communism ? You described the effects of Capitalism I merely said that it was similar to Communism.
Never mind, I've clearly misunderstood you, my apologies.
I think most people know why. You're not some kind of guru who knows better than everyone else. Most people don't necessarily agree with the alternative systems and certainly don't want a global revolution.
You clearly don't want change, governments, corporations & the rich don't want change, but most other people with a sense of humanity and compassion want a fair & egalitarian society. The only way that can be accomplished is through revolution on a global scale. It will happen sooner rather than later. The poor have been brushed aside for too long. You greedy, selfish, heartless ******* have been running the show for too long.
No problem, thank you.:)
You clearly genuinely believe this. I don't think there's anything that can really be taken away from that, for better, or, for worse...
Yes, I genuinely believe one day the poor will stand up to the rich & powerful and create change. Quick, get me a straitjacket, I'm clearly a deranged lunatic hippy and definitely not just a normal person who believes in equality!
It's never been properly tried, the communist states were not in any sense true socialism.
Countries like the Nordic states where they get closer to socialism are much better places to live than somewhere like the USA which is terrible for a very large percentage of its population.
There has to be more to life than selfishness, at least the rampant selfishness that is seeing us wreck our planet. At least we can have a system where work is rewarded rather than one where those at the top (who usually don't work harder despite what they say) can earn 160 times the average of those beneath them.
Sorry off topic but you obviously don't understand the selfish gene as put forward by Dawkins. It was not about selfishness in individuals at all, in fact the selfish gene in many species encourages co-operation not selfishness. The selfish gene is basically about looking at evolution as us being the way our genes are passed down rather than our genes being the way we are passed down.
The book is well worth reading.
And then create their own rich and powerful elite.
Tell that to the 99% of Dawkins bashers on DS who obviously judge books by the cover. :roll:eyes:
I think most people do want a revolution, they just don't know how to bring it about.
Look at the widespread apathy and cynicism in UK politics, the rise of extremists and the people being suckered into supporting them. Massive discontent combined with massive cluelessness about what to do.