PS3 FW 3.21 - linux option removed

gillyallan · 29/03/10 - 08:48

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/03/28/ps3-firmware-v3-21-update/

The next system software update for the PlayStation 3 (PS3) system will be released on April 1, 2010 (JST), and will disable the “Install Other OS” feature that was available on the PS3 systems prior to the current slimmer models, launched in September 2009. This feature enabled users to install an operating system, but due to security concerns, Sony Computer Entertainment will remove the functionality through the 3.21 system software update.

Weird the date is April the 1st mind you, but it is the SONY blog.

Anyone moaning can vent their frustration at the hacker World. Personally I am happy about this

gillyallan · 29/03/10 - 08:49

post not showing bug of DS :rolleyes:

[Deleted User] · 29/03/10 - 09:06

Excellent, and by far the simplest way to stop the majority of people thinking of exploiting

PS3 Linux was a nice idea, but never really got off the ground.

gillyallan · 29/03/10 - 09:21

I suppose there is room for jokes now like "The PS3....it USED to do everything" LOL

It will be interesting if someone tries to sue them over it. Its bound to be tried. Shame the Geo guy if he wanted to show his "genius" didnt take the exploit to Sony, maybe gain a job, instead of releasing it to the World.

mad_dude · 29/03/10 - 09:35

Oh well I guess I'm not updating. I dont play games online anyway. I wasnt going to circumvent sonys copy protection systems before the mere practicalities of hardware hacking a system that was no longer commercially available made it not worth it but if im being locked out of legitimately purchased DLC my merely choosing to have Linux on my system then circumvention of copy protection measures is not only justifyable but also to be expected in my opinion.

I think those that have got linux installed on their system are going to be very upset when they have to format their HD's to get their 10gb back after 3.21

Dick move sony. The exploit in the current form doesnt even pose a significant piracy risk due to the amount of ram that Linux takes up.

gillyallan · 29/03/10 - 09:50

I guess the other problem is that a lot of folk totally dread FW days for fear of their machine bricking. This in the removal of something quite substantial is probably quite a risky "update" in the bricking dept.

mad_dude · 29/03/10 - 09:52

I have found this comment on one of the articles on the internet and it somes up why people hack consoles perfectly and why removing Linux is such a dick move by sony.

You guys want to know the real reason Sony included the ability to install Linux with the original PS3?

There was an interesting slide in a presentation at 25c3 a few years ago done by Team Twiizers (the authors of the original Twilight Hack for the Wii, plus many subsequent Wii homebrew applications) that showed multiple devices and the "motivation" behind hacking each one of them, as well as additional ramifications of the hacks themselves.

Turns out very few devices have been hacked purely to pirate games or content. Most were hacked in order to run homebrew and install things like Linux (if the hardware is powerful enough). Piracy tools came only after they were hacked (in the chart, "piracy" was a very common additional consequence).

Most of the "smart" hackers, the hackers that write the exploits, the hackers that crack open the hardware and dump the memory, the hackers that actually have the knowledge to find a method to execute arbitrary code on a closed platform, simply don't care about piracy. They just want to run their own software on a closed platform and share their method with the world. Once a method to execute arbitrary code is found, however, it usually becomes much easier to enable piracy on a particular platform - and less experienced coders who are motivated by piracy jump in. I won't go into specific examples, but I'll just say that the Wii softmodding scene was a great example of this.

You know what Sony did when they enabled OtherOS support? They closed the "smart hacker" hole. There was not enough motivation to do hardcore hardware hacking on the level that Team Twiizers went to to exploit the Wii. You could already run Linux. You could already execute your own code. Sure, you didn't have access to the GPU, but that wasn't a tremendously huge deal anyway. This, combined with a strong security architecture, helped the PS3 remain unexploited for over three years.

The Wii fell, and the 360 fell, but to this day it is still impossible to run a pirated game on the PS3. I believe that this is, at least in part, because of the PS3's OtherOS support.

Finally, however, someone is trying. Geohot is a genius when it comes to hardware exploits, and he went to great extents to find the exploit that finally broke the PS3 (to a certain extent). I don't know if anyone that experienced has "tried" to break the PS3 with that much effort before. His motivation wasn't piracy, he simply wanted more access to the hardware than what Sony provided with OtherOS and their hypervisor. You can't run pirated games or install a custom firmware yet, but it's only a matter of time, and Sony knows it's only a matter of time.

So they closed it. This was a very risky move for Sony. They promoted the PS3's OtherOS support extensively. After geohot revealed his exploit, they sat down and decided that the benefits of disabling OtherOS were worth the risks (prevention of mass piracy versus some community backlash). That means they knew that the hole that geohot discovered could easily lead to piracy. Who knows what will happen now? I think this could very well lead to a "custom firmware" battle once more refined, software-only exploits are found with the help of this exploit, perhaps exploits that do not require the use of OtherOS.

In that case, Sony should prepare for hell

[Deleted User] · 29/03/10 - 09:54

gillyallan wrote: »

I guess the other problem is that a lot of folk totally dread FW days for fear of their machine bricking. This in the removal of something quite substantial is probably quite a risky "update" in the bricking dept.

I doubt its any better/worse than any other update. As they completely write over the whole firmware its the safest way to do it. Updating only small areas is far harder and more likely to cause issues.

[Deleted User] · 29/03/10 - 09:57

mad_dude wrote: »

I have found this comment on one of the articles on the internet and it somes up why people hack consoles perfectly and why removing Linux is such a dick move by sony.

Personally I don't agree with your opinion ... but that's probably because this change doesn't affect me.

gillyallan · 29/03/10 - 09:59

I do agree that it might encourage hackers more now to find something in those dumps that allows a hack without even the need for linux and then obviously that opens up the slim too (as well as those of us who "update")

Maybe Sony should have allowed more access (or any) to the GPU from Linux and it could have all been avoided.....I doubt it though, as it was about breaking the unbreakable. Geo doesnt even use a PS3, he was given it purely to break it.

mad_dude · 29/03/10 - 10:02

I have no doubt that the reactionary are not going to see beyond 'hacking= piracy' not forgetting that when millions of Playstations all suddenly failed on the same day that Linux access gave a valuable insight into what was going on.

The Makier faire in Newcastle is all about hacking hardware to make it do something it wasnt designed to do. Funnily enough one of the most popular exibit's was a Tesla coil made into a musical intrument. I dont see much software pirating with a Tesla coil:rolleyes:

gillyallan · 29/03/10 - 10:03

BT@home wrote: »

I doubt its any better/worse than any other update. As they completely write over the whole firmware its the safest way to do it. Updating only small areas is far harder and more likely to cause issues.

Yeah I guess. Just it means people are updating for no benefit as such. Its not like they are updating (and providing all goes well) they'll then have cross game chat or such. Its like a risk for nothing as such.

However, I am wondering if this is the "bad news day" and possibly tomorrow we will read of some new features in 3.21 to ease the pain a little. << maybe clutching at straws a little mind you. LOL

3.20 that got released to the developers had the 3D support, so maybe that means in the background this 3.21 has the workings for that also.

Gormond · 29/03/10 - 10:13

What they gonna do next, remove our PS2 compatibility...

Really lame move by Sony imo.

Vashetti · 29/03/10 - 10:17

Gormond wrote: »

What they gonna do next, remove our PS2 compatibility...

Really lame move by Sony imo.

Technically they already did that for the majority of us

mad_dude · 29/03/10 - 10:20

Anyway if you look around the internet the test version of 3.20 which does have other Os support can be found the removal of other os must be a very a late addition.

I should add this firmware will NOT work on a retail console

Awshum-Yawn · 29/03/10 - 10:27

mad_dude wrote: »

Oh well I guess I'm not updating. I dont play games online anyway.....

I think you'll end up buying a game at some point that won't run on old firmware and then you'll have to update.

Personally I never used Linux, or saw the point for the average gamer, but if some of the comments are right then this is a dumb move by Sony.

MadWrappa · 29/03/10 - 10:36

mad_dude wrote: »

I have found this comment on one of the articles on the internet and it somes up why people hack consoles perfectly and why removing Linux is such a dick move by sony.

They talk about smart 'genius' hackers as if they are doing what they do as part of some honest technical crusade

When prats like that Geohot bought a PS3 they bought a copywrited piece of hardware they didn't design.
When they sign up to PSN they agree to a list of ToS as long as a toilet roll.

For them to hack either is surely criminal activity?
What percentage of PS3 users are hackers? not many i bet
Most like me buy it to play games and have fun.

'Genius' great hackers are no better than the people that send spam emails, phishing and trying to hack your life to rob you of money IMO.

mad_dude · 29/03/10 - 10:37

Awshum-Yawn wrote: »

I think you'll end up buying a game at some point that won't run on old firmware and then you'll have to update.

Personally I never used Linux, or saw the point for the average gamer, but if some of the comments are right then this is a dumb move by Sony.

Probably and I have a metric tonne of DLC that should my HDD fail I would need to redownload anyway. Even if my HDD doesnt fail. Should I choose this update. I am going to have to reformat my HDD to get the hard drive space used by linux back. I currently have about 50gb's free on my 320Gb's hard disk with a 1gb SD card and a 16gb Memory stick to back up that content with. It is going to take hours.

STEVE 03 · 29/03/10 - 10:43

It's odd Sony are announcing this minor firmware update 3 days in advance. I know they have revealed information of upcoming FW updates a few days in advance in the past, but that was only for major firmware upgrades such as the inclusion of in-game XMB a couple of years ago.

Unless Sony have something big planned for the update that hasn't been mentioned yet. Time will tell

mad_dude · 29/03/10 - 10:46

MadWrappa wrote: »

They talk about smart 'genius' hackers as if they are doing what they do as part of some honest technical crusade

When prats like that Geohot bought a PS3 they bought a copywrited piece of hardware they didn't design.
When they sign up to PSN they agree to a list of ToS as long as a toilet roll.

For them to hack either is surely criminal activity?
What percentage of PS3 users are hackers? not many i bet
Most like me buy it to play games and have fun.

'Genius' great hackers are no better than the people that send spam emails, phishing and trying to hack your life to rob you of money IMO.

Once again how can a tesla coil run pirated software? people hack stuff to experiment. to learn about the hardware their using. There is no practical advantage to hack a tesla coil to play beethoven it is just the nature of experimentation and indevor. The fact that linux was available on the PS3, meant they could tinker with the hardware while at the same time protecting sony from piracy. This did appease the hacking community greatly on the PS3 (Including me)

There are also some practicalities with Geohots hack which means it is probably not going to be used for piracy for quite some time and while at some point Geohots hack may theoretically allow piracy the practicalities of hardware hacking a console(Risking bricking it) that is no longer produced, running games on the limited ram of Linux means that Geohots PS3 hack in its current form will not practically allow pirated content for quite some time.

Oh and just because Geohot owns a PS3 doesnt mean he has signed up to the PSN. I would strongly suspect he hasn't.

One of the most popular console devices for hacking now adays is the atari 2600. A device that has less power than the average stopwatch . I very much doubt those hackers are doing that to pirate content.

Hotbird · 29/03/10 - 10:54

I have always wanted to install Linux on my PS3, guess I will never have the chance now, although as I have not done it in over 2years of owning the console i probably never would have done, its still a stupid move by Sony to remove this feature.

As for hacking, hacking can be good and doesn't always equal pirated games for everybody. My PSP has been greatly improved because of hacked firmwares and my original xbox had the awesome XBMC which was probably one of the best features on that console and part of the reason I bought a PS3 as I wanted as close to that as I could get with a next generation system.

gillyallan · 29/03/10 - 10:57

Geo doesnt "use" a PS3 by his on admission. He was given a PS3 to hack. When he done the text on screen saying "hello geohot" he thought it would open up the possibility to create user themes. When he was told you could do that anyway he said "Oh!! didnt realise it could do that. Thats the problem with not actually using the machine"

What he was doing, while not technically in aid of pirate games. If you keep an eye on the blog, you'd lose count of the number of folk saying "When will an iso loader be ready" , so as the article above suggests, once a lot of the other stuff would be found, it then opens the door to the low-lifers who can use that info to create these things. Sony removing it will prevent the vast majority of the low-lifers from trying now. However the dedicated "not interested in games" folk like Geo, will continue without updating and no doubt will eventually stumble on some other loophole, which will open it up to the people who did update.

[Deleted User] · 29/03/10 - 11:02

The only thing im upset about is theirs nothing in this update for us PS3 slim owners

gillyallan · 29/03/10 - 11:03

Flawed_Tactics wrote: »

The only thing im upset about is theirs nothing in this update for us PS3 slim owners

and yet you'll still need to update LOL

They are removing the hdmi port of the slim in this update. Once you update it will be physically sucked into the casing.

MadWrappa · 29/03/10 - 11:05

mad_dude wrote: »

Once again how can a tesla coil run pirated software? people hack stuff to experiment. to learn about the hardware their using. There is no practical advantage to hack a tesla coil to play beethoven it is just the nature of experimentation and indevor. The fact that linux was available on the PS3, meant they could tinker with the hardware while at the same time protecting sony from piracy. This did appease the hacking community greatly on the PS3 (Including me)

There are also some practicalities with Geohots hack which means it is probably not going to be used for piracy for quite some time and while at some point Geohots hack may theoretically allow piracy the practicalities of hardware hacking a console(Risking bricking it) that is no longer produced, running games on the limited ram of Linux means that Geohots PS3 hack in its current form will not practically allow pirated content for quite some time.

Oh and just because Geohot owns a PS3 doesnt mean he has signed up to the PSN. I would strongly suspect he hasn't.

One of the most popular console devices for hacking now adays is the atari 2600. A device that has less power than the average stopwatch . I very much doubt those hackers are doing that to pirate content.

so they do it for the 'bragging' rights and kudos?

I wonder how many times Geohot applied for a job at Microsoft?

Back to the OP - Sony are always doing dumb things, they make me lol right up to the point when my computer bricks :eek:

[Deleted User] · 29/03/10 - 11:11

gillyallan wrote: »

and yet you'll still need to update LOL

They are removing the hdmi port of the slim in this update. Once you update it will be physically sucked into the casing.

Wish they could add a USB to the back of the console with an update, even when the PS3 had a million USB ports it never had one at the back

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PS3 FW 3.21 - linux option removed

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