Setting aside that there aren't just two ethnicities in the US, to the extent an officer might not know the ethnicity of the person, you can't say that whites or blacks are nicer to police. I suspect that people who are hostile from the get go might have a personality problem.
I separated out white from black because I was saying that some incident with Bland probably would have occurred were she white and talked like that.
I thought that was clear when I said, white or black, you don't argue back. And I'll add North or South, watch your mouth. You aren't legally allowed to say anything you want to an officer. That's the law.
Thus, while police, no less than anyone else, may resent having obscene words and gestures directed at them, they may not exercise the awesome power at their disposal to punish individuals for conduct that is not merely lawful, but protected by the First Amendment. . . . Inarticulate and crude as Duran’s conduct may have been, it represented an expression of disapproval toward a police officer with whom he had just had a run-in. As such, it fell squarely within the protective umbrella of the First Amendment and any action to punish or deter such speech–such as stopping or hassling the speaker–is categorically prohibited by the Constitution.
According to Sullivan, “The difference between real conservatism and the police-state authoritarianism now cherished by Cheney Republicans has rarely been better explained. You live in a free country. The police are your employees. You pay their salary.”
No I don't think policing is hunky dory. I'm saying that criminals bear some of the responsibility for the aggressive stance that police take during traffic stops.
Many criminals aren't fearful of much, including the police. They shrug about going to jail because they know they can run the streets they owned, from jail. There are a lot of situations in which the police are actually, pretty helpless. Criminals have a lot of ways they 'beat' cases in which they were actually guilty and then laugh at the officers and judges.
I don't hear many people lecturing anyone about freedom. We know our freedoms come at a high price. In fact I don't know anyone who lectures about freedom, but that's a different subject.
I'm also pointing out how this obsession with whether or not the officer was courteous, or answered every question, appears to me.
I'll make this my last direct reply to you in this thread because we're obviously never going to see eye-to-eye. :kitty:
If I see footage of an unarmed, unthreatening woman having a weapon pointed at her head over a minor traffic infraction then I am ALWAYS going to call it an unacceptable abuse of police powers. No amount of semantics, straw man arguments, false equivalencies or silly statements is going to alter my opinion on the matter.
U.S. police standards and practices are generally very poor compared to a lot of other Western countries and I pray these sort of tragic situations will kickstart some major reflection and reform over there - hopefully before more lives are needlessly lost or, God forbid, more riots erupt.
I would hope we can agree on that at least, even if we can't agree on 'who' is most at fault. ^_^
I'll make this my last direct reply to you in this thread because we're obviously never going to see eye-to-eye. :kitty:
If I see footage of an unarmed, unthreatening woman having a weapon pointed at her head over a minor traffic infraction then I am ALWAYS going to call it an unacceptable abuse of police powers. No amount of semantics, straw man arguments, false equivalencies or silly statements is going to alter my opinion on the matter.
U.S. police standards and practices are generally very poor compared to a lot of other Western countries and I pray these sort of tragic situations will kickstart some major reflection and reform over there - hopefully before more lives are needlessly lost or, God forbid, more riots erupt.
I would hope we can agree on that at least, even if we can't agree on 'who' is most at fault. ^_^
It's not a straw man argument to point out how Bland contributed to her own arrest. Her lack of cooperation and invective are there, on the video.
If someone points out that maybe Bland wasn't such a law abiding person, they are 'vilifying' her. She's able to do things that the rest of us aren't allowed to do. People are pretty much free to speculate that Encinia raped or murdered her though, without 'vilifying' him.
I don't like a future when police have to take any form of verbal abuse, or don't want to confront people lest they get sued or blamed for their depression.
No, sorry, still as clear as mud where you're coming from. You said this:-
As though black persons do.
So I'm sorry, you've still not explained what you mean. It's as though you're replying to a different post to the one you quote, each time. But as we're getting nowhere, I'm happy to leave it at that.
Yes, and why did I say that?
Read the posts and you will see that posters were claiming that white people can argue with the police but blacks get arrested.
You made some fairly strong claims and now you seem to be walking back on them instead of coming up with evidence. And instead parsing words in my posts.
Of course I didn't say blacks can argue with the police as I said the opposite.
It does seem that the media is determined to make this into a race issue. It's like they are all specifically mentioning she was black, as if that has any relevance to being pulled over. But we don't often here about "John Smith who is a WHITE man was pulled over by a WHITE cop"
It does seem that the media is determined to make this into a race issue. It's like they are all specifically mentioning she was black, as if that has any relevance to being pulled over. But we don't often here about "John Smith who is a WHITE man was pulled over by a WHITE cop"
The last DS thread on that subject. Locked 24th June. So yes we do even on DS. Maybe it's just you.
I literally have no idea what you mean. Like I said, I think we'd better leave it at that.
I'm not wasting any more energy on this.
i'll spell it out. In reply to the posts that white people in the Sourh can argue back, I say well I doubt that, because I live up North where it's more liberal and I can't do it. Get it.
The police up here would presumably be more relaxed about arguing back. But they aren't. It's not a color thing.
I honesty think the conflict with Encinia was a person to person conflict and if it had been a white person it probably wouldn't end well either.
ZOMG! Imagine a dystopian future where police have to deal with verbal abuse! Or be held accountable for their actions - maybe even put up with being sued for mistreating citizens! Quelle horreur!!! Still, maybe poor public perception of their image will lead them to reflect on the way they approach the public...
Picking up on other posts above, I'll reiterate that I don't think all cases of 'police over-reach' (to use a VERY neutral phrase) are racially-motivated. Not at all! I've cited examples of police mistreatment of white/mentally ill/disabled people and I find these equally abhorrent. Doesn't change the fact that black people are disproportionately affected and, given the long and brutal history of slavery, lynchings, discrimination etc. in the U.S, I think it's no surprise which stories attract most media attention.
Comments
I'm not sure what you mean.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/27/how-to-talk-to-a-cop/
If I see footage of an unarmed, unthreatening woman having a weapon pointed at her head over a minor traffic infraction then I am ALWAYS going to call it an unacceptable abuse of police powers. No amount of semantics, straw man arguments, false equivalencies or silly statements is going to alter my opinion on the matter.
U.S. police standards and practices are generally very poor compared to a lot of other Western countries and I pray these sort of tragic situations will kickstart some major reflection and reform over there - hopefully before more lives are needlessly lost or, God forbid, more riots erupt.
I would hope we can agree on that at least, even if we can't agree on 'who' is most at fault. ^_^
Well thanks, but I don't really think it's a right I'll need to exercise, because that's not something I've ever said.
Neither is any of that.
Think I'm gonna have to agree with blueblade when he says:
It's not a straw man argument to point out how Bland contributed to her own arrest. Her lack of cooperation and invective are there, on the video.
If someone points out that maybe Bland wasn't such a law abiding person, they are 'vilifying' her. She's able to do things that the rest of us aren't allowed to do. People are pretty much free to speculate that Encinia raped or murdered her though, without 'vilifying' him.
I don't like a future when police have to take any form of verbal abuse, or don't want to confront people lest they get sued or blamed for their depression.
Well what did you say about it then, other than popping in with a non sequitur?
Yes, and why did I say that?
Read the posts and you will see that posters were claiming that white people can argue with the police but blacks get arrested.
You made some fairly strong claims and now you seem to be walking back on them instead of coming up with evidence. And instead parsing words in my posts.
Of course I didn't say blacks can argue with the police as I said the opposite.
I literally have no idea what you mean. Like I said, I think we'd better leave it at that.
I'm not wasting any more energy on this.
The last DS thread on that subject. Locked 24th June. So yes we do even on DS. Maybe it's just you.
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2084247
I linked where offensive language can lead to disorderly conduct charges. Look back.
That doesn't just apply to police by the way.
i'll spell it out. In reply to the posts that white people in the Sourh can argue back, I say well I doubt that, because I live up North where it's more liberal and I can't do it. Get it.
The police up here would presumably be more relaxed about arguing back. But they aren't. It's not a color thing.
I honesty think the conflict with Encinia was a person to person conflict and if it had been a white person it probably wouldn't end well either.
Picking up on other posts above, I'll reiterate that I don't think all cases of 'police over-reach' (to use a VERY neutral phrase) are racially-motivated. Not at all! I've cited examples of police mistreatment of white/mentally ill/disabled people and I find these equally abhorrent. Doesn't change the fact that black people are disproportionately affected and, given the long and brutal history of slavery, lynchings, discrimination etc. in the U.S, I think it's no surprise which stories attract most media attention.