i always feel sorry for martha, i mean there was obviously the unrequited love thing that got in the way but i felt that although her character was CONSTANTLY saving the dr in series 3, she was never really appreciated for it...
And yet in the end Martha had the happiest outcome of the three main new series companions. She still has her memories of her time with the Doctor to treasure, yet she's also been able to move on and find happiness with a new bloke who isn't just an imitation of the Doctor.
And she got a job with UNIT, a fast-tracked doctorate, and a job offer from Torchwood. None of that would've happened if she'd never met the Doctor, but it all happened after she left him, and thus, earned off her own back.
I didn't watch any of the classic series... I keep thinking I should get hold of some and never really getting round to it.
Of the New Series, I always thought Rose's ending was brilliant, until she came back in Series 4. I feel that that scene in Doomsday now feels empty and pointless.
To me, Martha didn't even have an ending. She just kind of appears when she gets bored... Everytime she leaves you kind of presume she'll be back at some point.
Donna's was brilliant... but, like Rose, if RTD/Moffat/Other decides to bring her back, that scene/idea might be kind of weakened, but only if she gets her memories back.
Donna's was brilliant... but, like Rose, if RTD/Moffat/Other decides to bring her back, that scene/idea might be kind of weakened, but only if she gets her memories back.
I think she will you know if she does come back. But the Doctor I think would eventually wipe her again which would probably be just as moving. I think something might happen that would require her help. If the Doctor brings her back for that then there could be more tears for all.
Actually in retrospect I no longer find any of the new series goodbyes emotional as we know they are not final 'goodbyes'. I kind of view series 1-4 as a period involving the same few characters, The Doctor, Rose, Martha, Donna, Jack and Sarah Jane and that nobody really left, they were just absent at times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCR
Except The Two Doctors was clearly set after that....
Oh-Oh! Can of worms opened there me thinks!!!!
Not necessarily. Contained within the dialog, we learn that the Doctor and Jamie have just dropped Victoria off somewhere to learn graphology. What's to say they didn't have the Two Doctors adventure then collect Victoria again to continue their adventures...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCR
Except The Two Doctors was clearly set after that....
Oh-Oh! Can of worms opened there me thinks!!!!
Not necessarily. Contained within the dialog, we learn that the Doctor and Jamie have just dropped Victoria off somewhere to learn graphology. What's to say they didn't have the Two Doctors adventure then collect Victoria again to continue their adventures...?
Still though the Doctor seems to have forgotten all about the Sontarans by Time Warrior.
It also makes me smile that essentially Doctor's 2, 3, 4 and 5 know what he will look like in his 6th incarnation. But then 5 knew what he'd look like as 10 after Time Crash.
I saw The Green Death for the first time a few days ago and I was struck at how well the scene was done with Jo and the Doctor saying goodbye. It was really well done - nicely scripted and well acted. It actually left me with a lump in my throat.
What goodbye scenes do you like or think are particularly well done. Obviously the Doctor / Rose parting in Doomsday is going to take a lot of beating...
Yer, coz there wasn't the tears, snogging and general childishness. Thank god she has gone!
I think she will you know if she does come back. But the Doctor I think would eventually wipe her again which would probably be just as moving. I think something might happen that would require her help. If the Doctor brings her back for that then there could be more tears for all.
I wouldn't mind if she got her memories back, and then "burned", or whatever it was the Doctor said would happen. It could be like a sacrificial thing, maybe??
What about poor loyal Jamie? He shared so many adventures with the doctor only to have his memory erased and send back to the battle of Culloden. That's a tragic ending....
Guess Big Finish didn't care for that ending, as they've just torpedoed it; they announced Frazer Hines will be playing Jamie in 4 sixth doctor audios next April-June (3 main range, one solo). Nick Briggs says "we know what we are doing".
Assuming BF is canon, then Jamie is now a sixth doctor companion.
Guess Big Finish didn't care for that ending, as they've just torpedoed it; they announced Frazer Hines will be playing Jamie in 4 sixth doctor audios next April-June (3 main range, one solo). Nick Briggs says "we know what we are doing".
Assuming BF is canon, then Jamie is now a sixth doctor companion.
Jamie is back!!!!!!! woooo hooooo that is the best news ever!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D
I wonder if Tennant will one day do audios as well.....I would love his Doctor to end up with Jamie....:D
That never even occurred to me... Definitely something in the "massive luxury overdose" category.
But the idea of Jamie as 6th Doctor's companion is... almost as tempting. After all they've met in the actual series (no idea if or how that's gonna be relevant in future audios) plus I always loved those moments in BF stories where Doctor was reminiscing his times with past companions, and 6th Doctor actually mentioned Jamie couple times in one of them (the best part: it was Tennant's character who brought those memories!), so there's a connection already. Well, sort of...
I definitely feel the Doctor sneaking away into the sunset in the Green Death was the best.
I also really thought Susan's departure was emotional.
Totally agree. The Doc seeing Jo with her new fella was just too much for Pertwee's Doctor to take. There's real pain conveyed there, without the need for RTD's over the top emotional displays.
Guess Big Finish didn't care for that ending, as they've just torpedoed it; they announced Frazer Hines will be playing Jamie in 4 sixth doctor audios next April-June (3 main range, one solo). Nick Briggs says "we know what we are doing".
Assuming BF is canon, then Jamie is now a sixth doctor companion.
I guess Jamie's new adventures take place after the events of season 6B. I wouldn't be surprised if this has been considered ever since Doc 10 mentioned his name in Tooth and Claw. The only problem was deciding which Doctor, since Troughton is dead. Six was the obvious choice, since he's met him.
I saw The Green Death for the first time a few days ago and I was struck at how well the scene was done with Jo and the Doctor saying goodbye. It was really well done - nicely scripted and well acted. It actually left me with a lump in my throat.
What goodbye scenes do you like or think are particularly well done. Obviously the Doctor / Rose parting in Doomsday is going to take a lot of beating...[/QUOTE]
I don't think it takes a lot to beat the Doomsday parting to be honest. It was completley subverted by her return - maybe if she hadnt come back in series 4 it would have stayed the big dramatic exit that it was but it kind of got ruined. They made such a hoopla over that fact that she could never never return and then just 2 years later (in our time) . . . she did.
For me, (mainly having watched New Who, although ive see a couple of old who specials - dont think with any companion leaving though) Donna's was the sadest, most desparate ending for a character. When you consider that all the growth and maturing that Donna had gone through since meeting the Doctor, it was so sad and just almost excruciating to think about because obviously, she cant remember any of it - all that she went through, all that she learnt. Wilf said it best - 'she was better when she was with the Doctor'. I just hope that when she returns in the upcoming episodes her ending isnt ruined or emotionally cheapened.
Contrary it seems to popular belief, i think Martha had the 'best' ending out of the 3 companions. Definatly the most positive, she left on a high, after just saving the universe, on course to be a brilliant Doctor, and realised what she needed to do to save herself from the Doctor really. I reckon she had so much courage to tell the Doctor exactly how she felt - though after laughing in the Master's face maybe it didnt seem such a hard thing to do. And after seeing her in series 4 and torchwood its clear to see how much she has grown because of her time with the Doctor.
I guess Jamie's new adventures take place after the events of season 6B. I wouldn't be surprised if this has been considered ever since Doc 10 mentioned his name in Tooth and Claw. The only problem was deciding which Doctor, since Troughton is dead. Six was the obvious choice, since he's met him.
Good old season 6B - a wonderful piece of fan w**k.
Evidence - opening sentance of that Wiki article
"Season 6B or Season 6 (b) is a popular fan theory related to the long-running British science fiction television series Doctor Who. "
In counter arguement - In The Two Doctors, the Doctor states that they had left Victoria to study Graphology. Yet according to the independently produced Downtime - this is not the case - she stayed with her family on Earth where the Doctor left her originally. And as the Doctor could not steer the Tardis how did he manage to collect her?
My theory - the Timelords used the 2nd Doctor in The Two Doctors by recreating him from the Matrix. This was to warn Dastari about the time experiments and to get them stopped. By using an earlier incarnation of the Doctor they could deny any intention of interferring - the 2nd Doctor did not exist any longer so how could be there on their behalf, and was the best choice to undertake this very serious mission.
However because the 2nd Doctor was too rebellious they planted false memories in his mind (Victoria) and by putting him back with Jamie for a one off adventure this would have delayed any issues/questions he had with missing memories. The intention was that once he had sorted out Dastari, the Timelords would have returned him to the Matrix and Jamie to his rightful place in time (somewhat later than the Jacobian rebellions which he obviously survived).
Of course they did not count on the treachery of Chessene or the interference of the Sontarans and the effect that would have on his later incarnations. This resulted in the current (6th) Doctor having to interfere to save his own existance.
At the end of the story the 2nd Doctor left in his Tardis and was returned to the Matrix whilst Jamie was returned to 18th Century Scotland.
She changed her life completely, so much for the better, she was aware of that and glad of it, and I could actually feel how desperate she must have felt knowing she was going to go back to the way she used to be.
It was genuinely heartbreaking.
Rose's exit I found sad at the time, but if I saw it again I'd be completely dry-eyed and I'd probably want to give her a slap (not that that's anything new!!)
Martha's exit was upsetting because I liked her and didnt know it was coming. But at least she left for the right reasons and has led a good life since.
I thought Rose's exit would have worked better without the coda. That's where it all got a bit generic for me. I'd have preferred an ending that left the Doctor dealing with his loss without a neatly packaged conclusion — the more they give him a magical way to get around any stated limitation the less empathetic he is. I guess it's like everyone is saying re: Rose's return, but even quicker than that; once you're aware that any apparent internal logic is free to be broken at any moment it becomes really difficult to invest any emotion.
From the original series, I have to agree with Susan, owing to the Doctor's speech afterwards. Wouldn't get away with something like that now, there'd need to be about fifteen grating references to 2009 popular culture and some running around to break up a speech that long.
I like Martha's exit too. It was simple and honest, and on Martha's part actually brave. No intervening events, no dramatics, just a pragmatic decision. But maybe the same is true of Mickey?
Comments
And yet in the end Martha had the happiest outcome of the three main new series companions. She still has her memories of her time with the Doctor to treasure, yet she's also been able to move on and find happiness with a new bloke who isn't just an imitation of the Doctor.
Liz was very good indeed. Course her send-off, had there been one, would probably have been polite and professional.
I also really thought Susan's departure was emotional.
Of the New Series, I always thought Rose's ending was brilliant, until she came back in Series 4. I feel that that scene in Doomsday now feels empty and pointless.
To me, Martha didn't even have an ending. She just kind of appears when she gets bored... Everytime she leaves you kind of presume she'll be back at some point.
Donna's was brilliant... but, like Rose, if RTD/Moffat/Other decides to bring her back, that scene/idea might be kind of weakened, but only if she gets her memories back.
I think she will you know if she does come back. But the Doctor I think would eventually wipe her again which would probably be just as moving. I think something might happen that would require her help. If the Doctor brings her back for that then there could be more tears for all.
She would have been heavily pregnant at the time, if I recall the Inferno dvd extras. But no one seems to know why it didn't happen.
Originally Posted by JCR
Except The Two Doctors was clearly set after that....
Oh-Oh! Can of worms opened there me thinks!!!!
Not necessarily. Contained within the dialog, we learn that the Doctor and Jamie have just dropped Victoria off somewhere to learn graphology. What's to say they didn't have the Two Doctors adventure then collect Victoria again to continue their adventures...?
Still though the Doctor seems to have forgotten all about the Sontarans by Time Warrior.
It also makes me smile that essentially Doctor's 2, 3, 4 and 5 know what he will look like in his 6th incarnation. But then 5 knew what he'd look like as 10 after Time Crash.
Yer, coz there wasn't the tears, snogging and general childishness. Thank god she has gone!
I wouldn't mind if she got her memories back, and then "burned", or whatever it was the Doctor said would happen. It could be like a sacrificial thing, maybe??
Guess Big Finish didn't care for that ending, as they've just torpedoed it; they announced Frazer Hines will be playing Jamie in 4 sixth doctor audios next April-June (3 main range, one solo). Nick Briggs says "we know what we are doing".
Assuming BF is canon, then Jamie is now a sixth doctor companion.
Jamie is back!!!!!!! woooo hooooo that is the best news ever!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D
BF producer Nick Briggs seems to really like giving companions to the wrong doctors as well; I actually doubt this is the last time it'll happen.
I wonder if Tennant will one day do audios as well.....I would love his Doctor to end up with Jamie....:D
That never even occurred to me... Definitely something in the "massive luxury overdose" category.
But the idea of Jamie as 6th Doctor's companion is... almost as tempting. After all they've met in the actual series (no idea if or how that's gonna be relevant in future audios) plus I always loved those moments in BF stories where Doctor was reminiscing his times with past companions, and 6th Doctor actually mentioned Jamie couple times in one of them (the best part: it was Tennant's character who brought those memories!), so there's a connection already. Well, sort of...
Totally agree. The Doc seeing Jo with her new fella was just too much for Pertwee's Doctor to take. There's real pain conveyed there, without the need for RTD's over the top emotional displays.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season_6B
I guess Jamie's new adventures take place after the events of season 6B. I wouldn't be surprised if this has been considered ever since Doc 10 mentioned his name in Tooth and Claw. The only problem was deciding which Doctor, since Troughton is dead. Six was the obvious choice, since he's met him.
Good old season 6B - a wonderful piece of fan w**k.
Evidence - opening sentance of that Wiki article
"Season 6B or Season 6 (b) is a popular fan theory related to the long-running British science fiction television series Doctor Who. "
In counter arguement - In The Two Doctors, the Doctor states that they had left Victoria to study Graphology. Yet according to the independently produced Downtime - this is not the case - she stayed with her family on Earth where the Doctor left her originally. And as the Doctor could not steer the Tardis how did he manage to collect her?
My theory - the Timelords used the 2nd Doctor in The Two Doctors by recreating him from the Matrix. This was to warn Dastari about the time experiments and to get them stopped. By using an earlier incarnation of the Doctor they could deny any intention of interferring - the 2nd Doctor did not exist any longer so how could be there on their behalf, and was the best choice to undertake this very serious mission.
However because the 2nd Doctor was too rebellious they planted false memories in his mind (Victoria) and by putting him back with Jamie for a one off adventure this would have delayed any issues/questions he had with missing memories. The intention was that once he had sorted out Dastari, the Timelords would have returned him to the Matrix and Jamie to his rightful place in time (somewhat later than the Jacobian rebellions which he obviously survived).
Of course they did not count on the treachery of Chessene or the interference of the Sontarans and the effect that would have on his later incarnations. This resulted in the current (6th) Doctor having to interfere to save his own existance.
At the end of the story the 2nd Doctor left in his Tardis and was returned to the Matrix whilst Jamie was returned to 18th Century Scotland.
She changed her life completely, so much for the better, she was aware of that and glad of it, and I could actually feel how desperate she must have felt knowing she was going to go back to the way she used to be.
It was genuinely heartbreaking.
Rose's exit I found sad at the time, but if I saw it again I'd be completely dry-eyed and I'd probably want to give her a slap (not that that's anything new!!)
Martha's exit was upsetting because I liked her and didnt know it was coming. But at least she left for the right reasons and has led a good life since.
From the original series, I have to agree with Susan, owing to the Doctor's speech afterwards. Wouldn't get away with something like that now, there'd need to be about fifteen grating references to 2009 popular culture and some running around to break up a speech that long.
I like Martha's exit too. It was simple and honest, and on Martha's part actually brave. No intervening events, no dramatics, just a pragmatic decision. But maybe the same is true of Mickey?