I'm not quite sure of your point here. Given the nature of the video it isn't possible to know which are Toucan crossings but how many cyclists in that video are actually crossing?
And given the nature of the video it is not possible to gauge how long it took the person to amass the clips? The same could be done by dash cams in cars capturing other cars breaking the law.
But you are still using it in an way trying to make it look like all cyclists run red lights.
I'm not quite sure of your point here. Given the nature of the video it isn't possible to know which are Toucan crossings but how many cyclists in that video are actually crossing?
You need to know how many are Toucan crossings before you know how many of these incidents are red light jumping or making use of the rules for Toucan crossings.
You need to know how many are Toucan crossings before you know how many of these incidents are red light jumping or making use of the rules for Toucan crossings.
What are you on about? A Toucan crossing is a crossing that a cyclist can use along with pedestrians i.e. cross the road perpendicular to the road and the flow of traffic.
If you are cycling in the carriageway and reach a Toucan crossing on red it is exactly the same as a traffic light, Pelican, Puffin or Pegasus crossing, you must STOP.
So do you also have a problem with other slow moving traffic, such as tractors and drivers who drive below the speed limit for no reason?
Tractors, not really. They are necessary for farmers and tend to only be on the roads for short periods of time, you don't get tractors travelling miles and miles. They also usually drive over to the left as much as possible, allowing traffic to get by. Basically they understand that they are a nuisance and try to be as considerate as possible, unlike most cyclists.
Drivers who drive below the speed limit for no good reason? Yes, I have a big problem with them.
What are you on about? A Toucan crossing is a crossing that a cyclist can use along with pedestrians i.e. cross the road perpendicular to the road and the flow of traffic.
If you are cycling in the carriageway and reach a Toucan crossing on red it is exactly the same as a traffic light, Pelican, Puffin or Pegasus crossing, you must STOP.
Actually you must not cross the Stop Line. But as many Toucan crossings provide intersection for cyclists via cycle lanes or cycle boxes, it's perfectly permissible to change flow. Yes, you need to ride the crossing, but as most Toucan crossings are all four on green, it's simply a matter of going across till you reach your intersection and leave the shared area to the roadway.
BTW, as London is a very cosmopolitan city and has a very high proportion of Europeans in it, and appears to be the only part of the UK where this is a genuine issue, have you considered that it is mainly Europeans on bikes who are assuming these are standard European scramble crossings ?
Tractors, not really. They are necessary for farmers and tend to only be on the roads for short periods of time, you don't get tractors travelling miles and miles. They also usually drive over to the left as much as possible, allowing traffic to get by. Basically they understand that they are a nuisance and try to be as considerate as possible, unlike most cyclists.
Do you realise how ridiculous you sound in both your assertion of farmers giving a shit about other road users but moreso about the claim it is easier to pass a two metre wide tractor than the 60cm of a bycicle and rider.
Actually you must not cross the Stop Line. But as many Toucan crossings provide intersection for cyclists via cycle lanes or cycle boxes, it's perfectly permissible to change flow. Yes, you need to ride the crossing, but as most Toucan crossings are all four on green, it's simply a matter of going across till you reach your intersection and leave the shared area to the roadway.
Change flow? You mean come to a red light, hop onto the shared pavement, onto the crossing and then a left turn onto the carriageway again? Just like this chap.
London is a very cosmopolitan city and has a very high proportion of Europeans in it, and appears to be the only part of the UK where this is a genuine issue, have you considered that it is mainly Europeans on bikes who are assuming these are standard European scramble crossings?
Well they need educating then don't they? I'd advocate a compulsory CBT style test for all road going cyclists, based on the bikeability scheme. Any errant cyclist who comes to the attention of the police would be required to produced their certificate at the nearest police station within 7 days, failure to produce or have a certificate would result in a fine.
Actually you must not cross the Stop Line. But as many Toucan crossings provide intersection for cyclists via cycle lanes or cycle boxes, it's perfectly permissible to change flow. Yes, you need to ride the crossing, but as most Toucan crossings are all four on green, it's simply a matter of going across till you reach your intersection and leave the shared area to the roadway.
BTW, as London is a very cosmopolitan city and has a very high proportion of Europeans in it, and appears to be the only part of the UK where this is a genuine issue, have you considered that it is mainly Europeans on bikes who are assuming these are standard European scramble crossings ?
These are not Toucan crossings in London I am talking about but your normal bog standard traffic lights that have the advanced stop lines for cyclist as for it being a London centric European problem I think that's unlikely
Who absolutely shocking that you might need to take slightly longer to reach your destination and not have your right to reach your destination as fast as possible without regard to anyone else be impinged by evil cyclists just making use of the roads cyclists pay more for than you do.
What about the tractors doing the same speed that are much harder to overtake? What about learning to use your vehicle and overtaking a bicycle safely and properly. There is no road in the country where this is impossible.
The limit on the road in question is 50 mph and it's 6 miles long, so getting stuck in a queue behind a cyclist can make a 15 minute journey take far, far longer. My boss would have something to say about it if we all started allowing 45 minutes for that journey instead of 20.
Perhaps you could enlighten me as to the safe way of overtaking a cyclist on a narrow, winding rural road? I've yet to find a way of doing that on most of it as I'm not blessed with the ability to see round bends.
Tractors are generally only going relatively short distances, as more than a mile or so and they'd have left their land and be at the next farm along.
And why do cycling clubs find it necessary to travel in great long convoys that make it even harder to overtake safely?
And given the nature of the video it is not possible to gauge how long it took the person to amass the clips?
Agreed. We can only go off what he says.
The same could be done by dash cams in cars capturing other cars breaking the law.
Also agreed. In fact I recall something similar being done by a lorry not too long ago. If I remember correctly it had to do with some idiot entering the M-way by an exit slip road. Perhaps others will remember it better than I.
But you are still using it in an way trying to make it look like all cyclists run red lights.
I thought that when I said/typed that "There will be good and bad on both sides" I'd made it clear that I wasn't tarring all cyclists with the same brush.
Additionally, in that compilation, there are instances where a group of cyclists stop at a red light but one or two rogue elements don't.
Quite how that translates into "trying to make it look like all cyclists run red lights" I'm afraid I can't quite fathom.
You need to know how many are Toucan crossings before you know how many of these incidents are red light jumping or making use of the rules for Toucan crossings.
I assume you're referring to those who are entering from the right. That being the case then fair enough.
However, those who are travelling along the carriageway - like the guy making the video - who ignore the red light are, clearly, out of order.
The problem, as I see it, is, with too many motorists, the last time they read the Highway Code was the day they passed their test.
And, with many cyclists, I suspect they haven't read the Highway Code at all. Presumably they think it only applies to motorists.
Quite where this puts those who are both motorist and cyclist I'm not sure.
These are not Toucan crossings in London I am talking about but your normal bog standard traffic lights that have the advanced stop lines for cyclist as for it being a London centric European problem I think that's unlikely
All the figures shown and all the complaints are from those in London.
In Europe, Scramble Crossings are common where pedestrians and cyclists have right of way at the same time in all directions. This is clearly a possible explanation - its a London problem that should be dealy with by London police and possibly public advertising.
It doesn't indicate any need to artificially create massive public and private expense for a pointless gesture to placate motorists who already get subsidised by cyclists.
Change flow? You mean come to a red light, hop onto the shared pavement, onto the crossing and then a left turn onto the carriageway again? Just like this chap.
You don't think for a second that that is taking the pee?
What I mean is cycle boxes like this http://www.devon.gov.uk/cross6.jpg where the cyclist can join the toucan crossing from the road without crossing the Stop Line.
The limit on the road in question is 50 mph and it's 6 miles long, so getting stuck in a queue behind a cyclist can make a 15 minute journey take far, far longer. My boss would have something to say about it if we all started allowing 45 minutes for that journey instead of 20.
Perhaps you could enlighten me as to the safe way of overtaking a cyclist on a narrow, winding rural road? I've yet to find a way of doing that on most of it as I'm not blessed with the ability to see round bends.
So it really is just "I want to get to my destination faster and lack basic driving skills to pass narrow, slow moving road users".
What I mean is cycle boxes like this http://www.devon.gov.uk/cross6.jpg where the cyclist can join the toucan crossing from the road without crossing the Stop Line.
Never seen a crossing marked like that (looks like a Friday afternoon job:D), joining the crossing yes, but not sail through it as if it is not there.
All the figures shown and all the complaints are from those in London.
In Europe, Scramble Crossings are common where pedestrians and cyclists have right of way at the same time in all directions. This is clearly a possible explanation - its a London problem that should be dealy with by London police and possibly public advertising.
It doesn't indicate any need to artificially create massive public and private expense for a pointless gesture to placate motorists who already get subsidised by cyclists.
All a problem in York and no doubt many other places
A lot of terrible car driving and unspecified incidents which may or may not be offences depending on factors which aren't apparent.
We all know there are bad car drivers but they can get fined, points on their license, arrested, jailed increased insurance charges etc but this rarely happens with cyclists they don't even have insurance or a licence
We all know there are bad car drivers but they can get fined, points on their license, arrested, jailed increased insurance charges etc but this rarely happens with cyclists they don't even have insurance or a licence
And the reason behind that is that when you get behind the wheel of a car, you are then in control of a large piece of mechanical equipment which has a reasonable statistical chance of causing the death of others if mis-used.
This is the core of the difference. The statistical chance of harming others from incompetent cycling is small enough to be negligible.
Comments
But you are still using it in an way trying to make it look like all cyclists run red lights.
You need to know how many are Toucan crossings before you know how many of these incidents are red light jumping or making use of the rules for Toucan crossings.
What are you on about? A Toucan crossing is a crossing that a cyclist can use along with pedestrians i.e. cross the road perpendicular to the road and the flow of traffic.
http://www.search2drive.com/media/hc-pedestrian-6.gif
If you are cycling in the carriageway and reach a Toucan crossing on red it is exactly the same as a traffic light, Pelican, Puffin or Pegasus crossing, you must STOP.
Tractors, not really. They are necessary for farmers and tend to only be on the roads for short periods of time, you don't get tractors travelling miles and miles. They also usually drive over to the left as much as possible, allowing traffic to get by. Basically they understand that they are a nuisance and try to be as considerate as possible, unlike most cyclists.
Drivers who drive below the speed limit for no good reason? Yes, I have a big problem with them.
They do but they can't be at every set of lights in London
I'm not condemning ALL cyclists just the idiots I see everyday
Actually you must not cross the Stop Line. But as many Toucan crossings provide intersection for cyclists via cycle lanes or cycle boxes, it's perfectly permissible to change flow. Yes, you need to ride the crossing, but as most Toucan crossings are all four on green, it's simply a matter of going across till you reach your intersection and leave the shared area to the roadway.
BTW, as London is a very cosmopolitan city and has a very high proportion of Europeans in it, and appears to be the only part of the UK where this is a genuine issue, have you considered that it is mainly Europeans on bikes who are assuming these are standard European scramble crossings ?
Do you realise how ridiculous you sound in both your assertion of farmers giving a shit about other road users but moreso about the claim it is easier to pass a two metre wide tractor than the 60cm of a bycicle and rider.
Change flow? You mean come to a red light, hop onto the shared pavement, onto the crossing and then a left turn onto the carriageway again? Just like this chap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joiWmH9WzzY
You don't think for a second that that is taking the pee?
Well they need educating then don't they? I'd advocate a compulsory CBT style test for all road going cyclists, based on the bikeability scheme. Any errant cyclist who comes to the attention of the police would be required to produced their certificate at the nearest police station within 7 days, failure to produce or have a certificate would result in a fine.
These are not Toucan crossings in London I am talking about but your normal bog standard traffic lights that have the advanced stop lines for cyclist as for it being a London centric European problem I think that's unlikely
The limit on the road in question is 50 mph and it's 6 miles long, so getting stuck in a queue behind a cyclist can make a 15 minute journey take far, far longer. My boss would have something to say about it if we all started allowing 45 minutes for that journey instead of 20.
Perhaps you could enlighten me as to the safe way of overtaking a cyclist on a narrow, winding rural road? I've yet to find a way of doing that on most of it as I'm not blessed with the ability to see round bends.
Tractors are generally only going relatively short distances, as more than a mile or so and they'd have left their land and be at the next farm along.
And why do cycling clubs find it necessary to travel in great long convoys that make it even harder to overtake safely?
Agreed. We can only go off what he says.
Also agreed. In fact I recall something similar being done by a lorry not too long ago. If I remember correctly it had to do with some idiot entering the M-way by an exit slip road. Perhaps others will remember it better than I.
I thought that when I said/typed that "There will be good and bad on both sides" I'd made it clear that I wasn't tarring all cyclists with the same brush.
Additionally, in that compilation, there are instances where a group of cyclists stop at a red light but one or two rogue elements don't.
Quite how that translates into "trying to make it look like all cyclists run red lights" I'm afraid I can't quite fathom.
I assume you're referring to those who are entering from the right. That being the case then fair enough.
However, those who are travelling along the carriageway - like the guy making the video - who ignore the red light are, clearly, out of order.
The problem, as I see it, is, with too many motorists, the last time they read the Highway Code was the day they passed their test.
And, with many cyclists, I suspect they haven't read the Highway Code at all. Presumably they think it only applies to motorists.
Quite where this puts those who are both motorist and cyclist I'm not sure.
All the figures shown and all the complaints are from those in London.
In Europe, Scramble Crossings are common where pedestrians and cyclists have right of way at the same time in all directions. This is clearly a possible explanation - its a London problem that should be dealy with by London police and possibly public advertising.
It doesn't indicate any need to artificially create massive public and private expense for a pointless gesture to placate motorists who already get subsidised by cyclists.
What I mean is cycle boxes like this http://www.devon.gov.uk/cross6.jpg where the cyclist can join the toucan crossing from the road without crossing the Stop Line.
So it really is just "I want to get to my destination faster and lack basic driving skills to pass narrow, slow moving road users".
Pathetic.
Never seen a crossing marked like that (looks like a Friday afternoon job:D), joining the crossing yes, but not sail through it as if it is not there.
All a problem in York and no doubt many other places
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/11136515.VIDEO__Cyclist_films_fellow_pedallers__bad_behaviour_on_helmet_cam/?ref=mr
Love the guy at the end...
A lot of terrible car driving and unspecified incidents which may or may not be offences depending on factors which aren't apparent.
We all know there are bad car drivers but they can get fined, points on their license, arrested, jailed increased insurance charges etc but this rarely happens with cyclists they don't even have insurance or a licence
And the reason behind that is that when you get behind the wheel of a car, you are then in control of a large piece of mechanical equipment which has a reasonable statistical chance of causing the death of others if mis-used.
This is the core of the difference. The statistical chance of harming others from incompetent cycling is small enough to be negligible.