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Close coupled toilet cisterns- standard fittings?
Hello,
My toilet has come apart- the handle assembly is knackered, and the siphon hasn't got much life left in it either. I don't really want to replace the whole toilet as there's nothing wrong with the bowl bit. I was wondering if the attachment between the cistern and the bowl is a standard fitting ie could I just go out and buy any new cistern and ask a plumber to install, or does it have to be the correct one to go with the existing bowl (Heritage brand)
TIA
My toilet has come apart- the handle assembly is knackered, and the siphon hasn't got much life left in it either. I don't really want to replace the whole toilet as there's nothing wrong with the bowl bit. I was wondering if the attachment between the cistern and the bowl is a standard fitting ie could I just go out and buy any new cistern and ask a plumber to install, or does it have to be the correct one to go with the existing bowl (Heritage brand)
TIA
0
Comments
Will go with photos- I know where the stop cock is but have no intention of doing this job myself after previous plumbing experiences
Cheers!
But honestly you are making a rod for your back, a decent plumber/handyman should have one in the back of their van and if they don't, let them get one and fit.
but when he has go go to the depot and is still charging £30 per half hour it'll still be cheaper to get it yourself than pay probably a hundred quid while he drives to the depot and grabs the part and parks up with a bacon butty for a bit and then finally when even his BS meter won't take it anymore drive back
http://www.screwfix.com/p/opella-dual-flush-siphon/20824
No point in paying more - last time I looked B&Q were charging twice as much, despite being owned by the same parent company as Screwfix.
You will also need a fitting kit...
http://www.screwfix.com/p/wc-close-coupling-kit/84958
There are plenty of 'how to' videos on You Tube.
It's quite a straightforward job, the biggest snag can be if the bolts spin round when you try to loosen them - then you need to saw through the bolts, or drill or grind the nuts off. A squirt with WD40 the day before attempting to unscrew them may help.
A Dremel or a small angle grinder is the best tool for such a job if they need cutting.
Screwfix also sell handles, and anything else you might need if different from the above.
I agree there are occasions when supplying the part yourself is the only option and/or the cheaper one but not cistern kit repairs.
Just ask the plumber what he will charge all in.
Unlike taps or other fittings which clients do supply and want fitted, I supply a part, I fit the part, a problem, my problem, not customers.
Expect to pay between 60 to a 100 anyway.
Up to you, but I wouldn't. The old cisterns provide more capacity and a better flush, and the linkage on a lot of push button cisterns is like the plastic K'nex kids play with - rubbish.
Further more there are still thousands of cisterns out there that still use 9lt flushes every time, no short, long flush just 9 litres straight.
Even some of the more modern cistern siphons are wasteful with 7 litre flushes.
An average family with an old toilet cistern or syphon can flush down the sewer stack over 45,000 gallons of wasted water every year, that's a horrific waste of both water and money.
Unfortunately some older pans won't flush properly when converted.
Along with adequate loft insulation and other things one of the best things IMO a household can do is either replace the pan and cistern or at least change the syphon in the cistern to a Fluid Master or any other flapper system going.
House holds might see a difference in their water bill, whether they recoup that money is different thing.
That's DS forums for ya!
Longer is what I should have wrote.
I was pointing out older pans, ( and some modern ones ), are inefficient so require a larger amount of water to flush and that is not "better".
I also forgot to mention that Opella brand you linked to, IMO there are better brands,----or did I?
The Opella is fine, and although there are more expensive on the market, there is no point in spending more.
As far as flushing goes, the more water the better. If the OP is on a meter and wants to save water, fair enough, but be prepared to incur problems with the pan not clearing, or a higher risk of blockage.
The OP has referred to changing the cistern and not the pan, so your post doesn't make a lot of sense, even if what you say about pan design was valid.
I agree with you re letting the plumber supply the parts, as they will then be responsible for both fitting and parts.
Peter, how can using up to 3 1/2 gallons of water to flush an average of 1 litre of pee be "better" for the environment or the pocket.
Two or so years ago a paper came across my desk, basically it was asking cisterns had a flushing capability of 1.2 L short flush and 2.6 L long.
Unfortunately, pan designs can't deal with solid matter with so little water as yet but it will happen.
You also appear to think more water equates to less blockage as far as flushing goes, it doesn't, it really doesn't.
If you tell a plumber the problem they can ensure they have the part on the van. If they try charging to get the part tell them to do one.
Tales of Plumbers sitting and killing time are a bit of a Myth promoted by TV expose' type programmes. I know I was far too busy to do such things.
Remember the saying "If its Yellow let it mellow, If its brown flush it down".
Our water Bill (metered supply) just came in ,we used 28cubic metres of water in 6 months. Of course having my own Borehole ,drilled by myself, all garden watering is done from it. By analysis it is fit to drink and I do drink it sometimes. but it would be too much hassle to do anything with it other than water the garden.
You are crossing lines of thoughts on various issues.
1/ The Opella siphon I gave a link to does operate a dual flush - holding the handle down provides a short flush using less water.
2/ You questioned the quality of Opella - they have been around for decades, I fitted an Opella tap fitting over 30 years ago, and it gave excellent service. The siphon as described is a very simple device, and chances are that replacing the flap would put the OP's back in good working order, but because they are so cheap it's just not worth the bother. The Opella siphon is one of (if not the most) popular siphons on the market, and because it's a high volume product it comes very cheap, but that doesn't imply any cutting of corners on quality. I have one in my own cistern, and it's absolutely fine. A cheap and well made product.
3/ In terms of efficacy, yes, the more water the better. The principles involved are due to volume/weight of water and effects of gravity. Which are issues that are unlikely to change anytime soon.
Narrowing the throat of the pan will increase the pressure (Venturi effect) but at a cost, which is that more solid waste may not clear as easily. There was an actual case on this very forum only a short while back.
Designs are contained by the laws of physics - there is no getting away from that.
In the days when folk wiped their backsides on newspapers, the old high level cisterns would flush 9x5 sheets of the Daily Mail away - try that with a low level suite and you will be discover the truth of the matter.
4/ The great water rip-off. Any time now the swindling swines will be telling us that there is a shortage of water. Which as anyone who spent last winter in Britain will know is not due to lack of rain! Rather, all to do with collection and storage, and supply and demand. Selling what falls out of the sky by the litre is disgusting imo. I refuse to be blackmailed into having a water meter, which is why I am paying 750 pounds per annum for my water and sewage. Two years ago my water bill was within a hundred pounds of my gas and electric bills – how can that be right?
If someone is on a water meter, then of course I understand their need to keep the use of water down, but lets not talk nonsense about the reasons why the cost of water is so high.
A short flush for urine is absolutely fine, but you’ve brought that into a discussion about overall capacity of cisterns, which is a different aspect.
The popular modern choice is as shown on the link below…
http://www.onlinebathrooms.com/product_info.php?products_id=6684
It looks neat and tidy, and is cheap, but in terms of a working piece of equipment, it certainty is not my first choice.
2) Lots of other end users out there will agree with you but there is better quality, IMO, for around the same price was the point you rather forced my hand to make.
3) if you have a poorly designed pan all the volume/weight and gravity doesn't matter a damn and that principle won't change soon either,-- regardless of what you write or where you read it.
And narrowing the throat may not be the answer.
In the days of old you mention when people were cleaning their backsides with newspaper, they were using out houses, out house stack runs were a lot less convoluted and the necks or pan outlets then were a lot wider, ever wonder why many an out house had a plunger behind the down pipe, ( It wasn't just to clear the Belfast sink ), because toilets, even those with wide outlets, still blocked and that was with plenty of water down the down pipe,--- which kind of counteracts the laws of physics you rely on and your argument the more water the better,--- its not.
4) I didn't mention reasons for cost of water, I wrote,
Along with adequate loft insulation and other things one of the best things IMO a household can do is either replace the pan and cistern or at least change the syphon in the cistern to a Fluid Master or any other flapper system going.
House holds might see a difference in their water bill, whether they recoup that money is different thing.
As for your other thoughts, lots of people would agree with you and you are right water companies are guilty of wholesale disrepair of their systems which hasn't helped natural water shortage when it occurs.
The situation is getting better however with miles upon miles of old Victorian pipes being replaced, my company has been involved in some of that work.
What did surprise me however is for some one who threw the laws of physics at me then states " Selling what falls out of the sky by the litre is disgusting imo". clearly doesn't understand that what falls out of the sky for free quickly becomes polluted and needs to be treated, ( overall water usage ), and that is where costs lay.
But I agree with you water bills are over-inflated,---to high.
would much rather the old pressure too - but as someone said the Daily Mail could go down - the water companies obviously don't want that
The old high-level cisterns are now very fashionable, although quite expensive, but then for the pleasure of being able to flush the DM away, probably well worth the extra cost!
http://www.catchpoleandrye.com/products/toilets-cisterns/cisterns/the-high-level-cistern/high-level-deluge-ensemble/
Any leakage and you are not going to get a proper flush anyway and your cistern must be constantly filling.
The water you see going into the bowl is not overflow is it?
If its not overflow It would suggest to me the flapper part is not creating a seal, I don't know why that is as they are good at what they do.
Try this if you haven't already, undo the linkage between button and the flapper.
If water still going into bowl that would suggest flapper is not seating properly or warped, put hand into cistern and press lightly on flapper, does leakage into bowl stop?
You don't pour bleach directly into the cistern do you? nothing destroys the flapper quicker then that.
By undoing the linkage and no helping hand, if no more water is going into bowl then linkage might be to tight, adjust.
If linkage is at to much of an angle that will stop flapper from sealing.
Edit if it is overflow check your filling valve as well.
I that what is referred to as "busted flush":D