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Is knowing the same as having a right to be sure?

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 21,014
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Hi, I'm writing an essay entitled "Is knowing the same as having a right to be sure?"

So far I've talked about the justification principle, the sceptics challenge, how scepticism is overcome, and how you can uphold your claim to knowledge, but I'm struggled to find many more points for the motion. I know about Gettier and against, but can anybody offer me any ideas as to why knowing is the same as having a right to be sure?

Thanks
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    gemma-the-huskygemma-the-husky Posts: 18,116
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    what does the title mean?

    construe, please.
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    paulbrockpaulbrock Posts: 16,632
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    perhaps our conspiracy threads may be of interest :)
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 21,014
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    Its the title of the Philosophy essay I have to write.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 21,014
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    Maybe this would be better in General Discussion?
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    Keefy-boyKeefy-boy Posts: 13,613
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    Maybe this would be better in General Discussion?
    Do you know that? You don't sound very sure. But it's your thread, so I guess you have the right.
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    alan29alan29 Posts: 34,643
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    Is knowing the same as having a right to be sure?
    Or in Ireland ........ Is knowing the same as having a right to be sure, to be sure?
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    Bom Diddly WoBom Diddly Wo Posts: 14,094
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    Maybe this would be better in General Discussion?

    You will get more out of it and understand it better if you research it for yourself. Before you say a word I would say that I don't really think that asking a forum qualifies as proper original resaearch.

    If it is any consolation I don't really understand what the essay title is asking and it likely that no one here will really understand it as it pertains to the context of your course. You will have done work around these themes and have been introduced to relavant authors and proponents that should form a basis from which to work. Us poor ignorami who are out of the educational loop at the moment will not be so familiar with what it is that you need to be considering so your finished essay will be much better if you rely on more traditional lines of research.

    Or, do your own bloody homework.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 21,014
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    You will get more out of it and understand it better if you research it for yourself. Before you say a word I would say that I don't really think that asking a forum qualifies as proper original resaearch.

    If it is any consolation I don't really understand what the essay title is asking and it likely that no one here will really understand it as it pertains to the context of your course. You will have done work around these themes and have been introduced to relavant authors and proponents that should form a basis from which to work. Us poor ignorami who are out of the educational loop at the moment will not be so familiar with what it is that you need to be considering so your finished essay will be much better if you rely on more traditional lines of research.

    Or, do your own bloody homework.

    I was hoping it may spark debate, hence why I asked it to be moved to GD. Would you like to me publish my finished essay for yours and others benefit? I have deducted what needs to be written.
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    alan29alan29 Posts: 34,643
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    I was hoping it may spark debate, hence why I asked it to be moved to GD. Would you like to me publish my finished essay for yours and others benefit? I have deducted what needs to be written.

    Deducted???????
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,366
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    alan29 wrote: »
    Is knowing the same as having a right to be sure?
    Or in Ireland ........ Is knowing the same as having a right to be sure, to be sure?

    ha, this is what I was wondering!
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 21,014
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    alan29 wrote: »
    Deducted???????

    Deduced. My mistake.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,458
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    Maybe if you could elaborate a bit more on what you've already written and on the context of the essay....?

    My first impression is that the essay question is just another way of asking 'Is knowledge the same as justified true belief?'
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    TombstoneTombstone Posts: 2,578
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    The conundrum was solved a few years ago by Our Lord of Deptford:-

    Sometimes right, Sometimes wrong,

    But ALWAYS certain
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 21,014
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    angel1ka wrote: »
    Maybe if you could elaborate a bit more on what you've already written and on the context of the essay....?

    My first impression is that the essay question is just another way of asking 'Is knowledge the same as justified true belief?'

    Yes that's what I've taken the title to mean. In the introduction I explained about Ayer and Gettier. Then i explained about the justification that is needed in order to have a claim of knowledge. Justification is necessary for both conditions of a knowledge claim, and a claim to a right to be sure because without justification knowing is fallible, and it is inconsistent with the ability to having the right to be sure.

    I then talked about the challenge of scepticism, whereby the seed of doubt planted by sceptics is refuted by Ayers Phenonenalism, about how when you claim to know something, you are claiming to know your experience of it, and therefore subjectivity and rule out doubt, making knowledge JTB.

    Then i quoted Ayer when he said "The necessary and sufficient conditions for knowing that something is the case are first that what one is said to know is true, secondly that one be sure of it, and thirdly that one should have the right to be sure" and explained how justification is just one part of knowledge, and that it is necessary but not sufficient.

    Next i explained Gettiers Smith and Jones proposition about how Smith doesn't know because he used false premises to obtain his JTB of the situation.

    Thats it so far.

    EDIT: Do I need to talk about the infinite regress being broken by seeking out premises from the self evident?
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    Pliny the ElderPliny the Elder Posts: 2,665
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    In answer to the OP. I don't know and I'm not sure..
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    Skip_TechSkip_Tech Posts: 2,881
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    i was right once

    when however, i cannot be certain
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,458
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    Yes that's what I've taken the title to mean. In the introduction I explained about Ayer and Gettier. Then i explained about the justification that is needed in order to have a claim of knowledge. Justification is necessary for both conditions of a knowledge claim, and a claim to a right to be sure because without justification knowing is fallible, and it is inconsistent with the ability to having the right to be sure.

    I then talked about the challenge of scepticism, whereby the seed of doubt planted by sceptics is refuted by Ayers Phenonenalism, about how when you claim to know something, you are claiming to know your experience of it, and therefore subjectivity and rule out doubt, making knowledge JTB.

    Then i quoted Ayer when he said "The necessary and sufficient conditions for knowing that something is the case are first that what one is said to know is true, secondly that one be sure of it, and thirdly that one should have the right to be sure" and explained how justification is just one part of knowledge, and that it is necessary but not sufficient.

    Next i explained Gettiers Smith and Jones proposition about how Smith doesn't know because he used false premises to obtain his JTB of the situation.

    Thats it so far.

    EDIT: Do I need to talk about the infinite regress being broken by seeking out premises from the self evident?

    OK - I think you need a Philosophy forum, not a General Discussion forum.

    Epistemology is not my subject so I need to think about all this a bit. I might get back to you a bit later...when is your essay due?
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 21,014
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    angel1ka wrote: »
    OK - I think you need a Philosophy forum, not a General Discussion forum.

    Epistemology is not my subject so I need to think about all this a bit. I might get back to you a bit later...when is your essay due?

    Tomorrow morning :p

    Thanks, I think I understand it all, I just needed to check if there were any key points I've missed out or anything I need to add.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,458
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    Tomorrow morning :p

    Thanks, I think I understand it all, I just needed to check if there were any key points I've missed out or anything I need to add.

    Tomorrow morning - I like your style, I'm like that too.

    I might come back to this thread later in the day if I feel I have something to add to what you've written. Good luck with the essay!
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 21,014
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    angel1ka wrote: »
    Tomorrow morning - I like your style, I'm like that too.

    I might come back to this thread later in the day if I feel I have something to add to what you've written. Good luck with the essay!

    Thanks. I'm going to get started with another essay due tomorrow morning "There can be no absolute moral truth. Discuss" With regards to emotivism and relativism.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,458
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    Thanks. I'm going to get started with another essay due tomorrow morning "There can be no absolute moral truth. Discuss" With regards to emotivism and relativism.

    Sounds like you've got a lot of work to do. Get off DS! NOW!
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    BBTweetsBBTweets Posts: 12,699
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    alan29 wrote: »
    Is knowing the same as having a right to be sure?
    Or in Ireland ........ Is knowing the same as having a right to be sure, to be sure?

    :D:D That's the only thing I understood in this thread!
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 21,014
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    BBTweets wrote: »
    :D:D That's the only thing I understood in this thread!

    Yet I do not.
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    Charlie_the_catCharlie_the_cat Posts: 1,089
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    Do I need to talk about the infinite regress being broken by seeking out premises from the self evident?
    **** me! I was just wondering about posting about that myself. But then I decided I might sound like a bit of a pratt.
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    flowerpowaflowerpowa Posts: 24,386
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    Thanks. I'm going to get started with another essay due tomorrow morning "There can be no absolute moral truth. Discuss" With regards to emotivism and relativism.

    The thing is, do you have enough common sense of how to knock a nail in a wall.:D
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