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"The baby with two faces" - what would you do?

Tony TigerTony Tiger Posts: 2,254
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An Australian woman has miraculously given birth to conjoined twins with one body and two brains despite doctors initially telling them to terminate the pregnancy.

Renee Young and Simon Howie, of Tregear in Sydney's west, welcomed their daughters on Thursday six weeks before they were due.

The couple, who found out via an ultrasound that the twins they were expecting was in fact one child with two symmetrical faces and two brains connected by the one brain stem, said doctors were shocked by the girls' exceptional progress.

'They are breathing perfectly on their own and feeding,' Mr Howie told Woman's Day.

Ms Young gave birth to the girls, named Faith and Hope, via an emergency caesarean at Blacktown Hospital last Thursday.

The girls were born with a rare condition called diprosopus, which means they share the same body and vital organs but have their own faces and brains which are connected by only one brain stem.

'Even though there is only one body, we call them our twins. To us, they are our girls and we love them,' Mr Howie said.

They were transferred to the Children's Hospital at Westmead shortly after they were born.

'We have no idea how long they will be in hospital. We just want to bring them home, happy and healthy to make our family a little bit bigger and a bit more chaotic,' Mr Howie said.

story here

Could you, or would you, keep them if you were given the news after an ultrasound? As heartless as it might sound, I know I would be completely against it. Especially in a case this severe, for lack of a better term, there just doesn't seem the prospect of any real quality of life at all.
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    bluebladeblueblade Posts: 88,859
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    I agree with you OP.
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    LykkieLiLykkieLi Posts: 6,644
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    They aren't the first ever conjoined twins that HAVE had quality of life. Why do you assume their life will be less worth living?
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    annette kurtenannette kurten Posts: 39,543
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    being a teeny bit different has made my life more challenging and difficult than i like, i honestly don`t know what i would do.
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    gasheadgashead Posts: 13,822
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    :o My mind is completely blown. Were it not so easy to confirm or refute the story, I might think it was a horrible hoax (the DM is not exactly known for its fact checking before publishing). I cannot even begin to comprehend how they will cope as they get older. Easy for me to say, I know, but I'd be inclined to terminate. Going ahead with the birth seems to be the crueler option.
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    kitty86kitty86 Posts: 7,034
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    I have an immense amount of respect for those parents, they are truly very special people. For me personally I wouldn't have been able to go through with it, which makes me sad because although I'm not anti abortion I didn't think it would be something I would ever consider doing myself.
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    gasheadgashead Posts: 13,822
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    LykkieLi wrote: »
    They aren't the first ever conjoined twins that HAVE had quality of life. Why do you assume their life will be less worth living?
    They may be conjoined in the medical sense, but you can't pretend they're the usual kind of conjoined. To all intents and purposes, this is one baby with two faces.
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    CBFreakCBFreak Posts: 28,602
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    I think it would be kinder to euthanise the poor child/children. But that could just be me and not even being able to imagine how you can live that.
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    LykkieLiLykkieLi Posts: 6,644
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    gashead wrote: »
    They may be conjoined in the medical sense, but you can't pretend they're the usual kind of conjoined. To all intents and purposes, this is one baby with two faces.

    If the parents feel they can cope with this wheres the harm?
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    sodavlacsodavlac Posts: 10,607
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    I'm intrigued as to how two brains one body might work. I don't know much about conjoined twins, but the ones I've seen on tv had two bodies as well as two brains. If one brain was instructing the left hand to raise and the other brain was instructing it to lower what would happen?
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    annette kurtenannette kurten Posts: 39,543
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    LykkieLi wrote: »
    If the parents feel they can cope with this wheres the harm?

    shouldn`t it be about the life of the children rather than whether the parents can cope, they won`t be cute little babies forever.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 9,720
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    sodavlac wrote: »
    I'm intrigued as to how two brains one body might work. I don't know much about conjoined twins, but the ones I've seen on tv had two bodies as well as two brains. If one brain was instructing the left hand to raise and the other brain was instructing it to lower what would happen?

    The other brain doesn't have a left hand.
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    Tony TigerTony Tiger Posts: 2,254
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    LykkieLi wrote: »
    If the parents feel they can cope with this wheres the harm?
    In the lives of the children, be it physical or mental depending on how long they survive, possibly both.
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    Merkin ParadeMerkin Parade Posts: 277
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    I'd have to lean towards termination. It would be a horrible decision but I just can't see these poor girls having a normal life at all. Every credit to the parents, I just couldn't do it.
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    gasheadgashead Posts: 13,822
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    LykkieLi wrote: »
    If the parents feel they can cope with this wheres the harm?
    'Where's the harm?' Is that seriously your question? What about the harm that will inevitably come to the baby/ child/ woman (if they live that long) psychologically, mentally, emotionally, probably physically? It's not all about what the parents can and cannot cope with, or it shouldn't be. The baby's QoL has to be considered and sadly, no matter how well the parents cope, the wider world is not equipped to 'deal with' a person like this.
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    marc_p88marc_p88 Posts: 1,133
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    Poor kid! This is another reason (albeit more minimal reason) why I don't want children. If I had to deal with a situation like this, or similar, I think I'd struggle mentally. Being the parent to a child that is "different" would be incredibly hard to deal with for me personally, but maybe others can cope well.
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    LykkieLiLykkieLi Posts: 6,644
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    shouldn`t it be about the life of the children rather than whether the parents can cope, they won`t be cute little babies forever.

    As long as the children aren't experiencing pain it should surely be up to the parents? I'm sure the docs will have informed them of the medical circumstances.
    What are you saying exactly? They shouldn't live because they look abnormal?
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    skp20040skp20040 Posts: 66,874
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    CBFreak wrote: »
    I think it would be kinder to euthanise the poor child/children. But that could just be me and not even being able to imagine how you can live that.

    If they were your kids then you would immediately realise that is something you could never do.
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    LykkieLiLykkieLi Posts: 6,644
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    gashead wrote: »
    'Where's the harm?' Is that seriously your question? What about the harm that will inevitably come to the baby/ child/ woman (if they live that long) psychologically, mentally, emotionally, probably physically? It's not all about what the parents can and cannot cope with, or it shouldn't be. The baby's QoL has to be considered and sadly, no matter how well the parents cope, the wider world is not equipped to 'deal with' a person like this.

    The wider world is people like you and me. Are you saying you are not equipped to 'deal' with it? I agree much of the wider world won't be equipped but is that enough of a reason to terminate?
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    annette kurtenannette kurten Posts: 39,543
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    LykkieLi wrote: »
    As long as the children aren't experiencing pain it should surely be up to the parents? I'm sure the docs will have informed them of the medical circumstances.
    What are you saying exactly? They shouldn't live because they look abnormal?

    we are being asked what we would do, not what they should do. i`m saying that i`m not sure that i wouldn`t have terminated and it`s nowt to do with coping as a parent but the future of the children, particular as adults.
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    sodavlacsodavlac Posts: 10,607
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    Meilie wrote: »
    The other brain doesn't have a left hand.

    Well that's left me more confused. Not your fault, btw, just me being a bit slow.

    Does each brain control one half, or certain parts of the body exclusively then? So maybe if brain #1 controls one arm only then as far as it's concerned it only has one arm. Is that how you mean?

    For some reason I was thinking they'd both be able to control all parts of the the body and have a battle of will over it or something. :blush:
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    LykkieLiLykkieLi Posts: 6,644
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    we are being asked what we would do, not what they should do. i`m saying that i`m not sure that i wouldn`t have terminated and it`s nowt to do with coping as a parent but the future of the children, particular as adults.

    Ok. The only reason I would consider terminating is if the child was going to go through a life of excruciating physical pain. The wider world may find it difficult to accept and people can be very cruel. But people can also be very kind and compassionate. Things only look odd for a while, then they become 'normalised'.
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    gasheadgashead Posts: 13,822
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    LykkieLi wrote: »
    The wider world is people like you and me. Are you saying you are not equipped to 'deal' with it? I agree much of the wider world won't be equipped but is that enough of a reason to terminate?
    Yes, that's what I'm saying. I would not know how to 'interact' with this person were I required to do so, but I'm just one person. I was thinking more of the various 'institutions' they'll have to engage with; school, employment, Govt. bureacracy etc.

    As for termination, it obviously wasn't enough of a reason for the parents, but I think it would be for me (for clarity, I'm male, so maybe it's 'easier' for me to say that anyway). Whilst the ultimate decision wouldn't legally be mine, I don't think I could agree with or condone bringing a baby into the world knowing full well it's already hideously deformed, with no known way to offer any cure, corrective surgery or even any 'respite' for them from it.
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    PrincessTTPrincessTT Posts: 4,300
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    LykkieLi wrote: »
    As long as the children aren't experiencing pain it should surely be up to the parents? I'm sure the docs will have informed them of the medical circumstances.
    What are you saying exactly? They shouldn't live because they look abnormal?

    It's more than just looking abnormal... 2 brains sharing a body means 2 brains sending different information to the body, that's going to be a very difficult life for them.

    Yes it's up to the parents, but your suggestion that it comes down to whether the parents feel they can cope is somewhat ridiculous.

    The parents have made their decision and hopefully did so considering the life that their daughters will lead as they get older.
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    annette kurtenannette kurten Posts: 39,543
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    LykkieLi wrote: »
    Ok. The only reason I would consider terminating is if the child was going to go through a life of excruciating physical pain. The wider world may find it difficult to accept and people can be very cruel. But people can also be very kind and compassionate. Things only look odd for a while, then they become 'normalised'.

    i don`t know what this means but as someone who gets stared at a lot by strangers i predict a fair bit of misery.
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    deans6571deans6571 Posts: 6,137
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    Tony Tiger wrote: »
    story here

    Could you, or would you, keep them if you were given the news after an ultrasound? As heartless as it might sound, I know I would be completely against it. Especially in a case this severe, for lack of a better term, there just doesn't seem the prospect of any real quality of life at all.

    ...why does EVERY article, which people post on here always come from the Daily Mail?! It seems that all DS users only read this paper.....!?:confused::confused:
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