Woman subjected to 108 catcalls during 10 hour walk through NYC

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  • Fists of FedorFists of Fedor Posts: 786
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    trevgo wrote: »
    I still don't know what to think about this.

    Yes, it's a pain for women to get continual catcalls ("harassment" if you like) but what is to be expected?

    It's not a question of what is to be "expected" - it's a question of what should be.
    It is what men do.

    It's what men do. Hooliganism. It's what men do. Racisim. It's what football supporters do.
    In a perfect world, they shouldn't, but what do people want? A law to stop men saying "hello" or whistling at a passing female? How would that operate?

    Why do you think a Law is required, rather than a change in outlook and opinions?
    It is a man thing, and sexuality doesn't have anything to do with it. I remember being 18 on the gay scene in London, and it was an assault course every time I went out. I didn't like it from men (usually older) in whom I had no interest, but that's life. I appreciate a male-male situation has a slightly different dynamic, but there is a parallel.

    Again, I fail to see "it's a man thing" as justification. I manage to go about without cat calling strangers. If it's a "Man" thing, then perhaps I should do it?
    As others have said - in many parts of the world, behaviour that would constitute an assault in the US or UK, are the norm. There can be no question about tolerating anything physical, but how you stop behaviour like that in the video I know not.

    You stop behaviour like that, by changing attitudes. 50 years ago, people probably wondered how to stop segregation and the associated attitudes in the United States. You certainly wouldn't go around saying... "It's a white thing...".
  • Slarti BartfastSlarti Bartfast Posts: 6,607
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    Who, me?

    Anyone who's resorted to those insults.
  • DianaFireDianaFire Posts: 12,711
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    Mythica wrote: »
    And I'm pointing out that it's not a fair debate. Don't like that, then report it.

    You can point out what you like, open another thread, whatever. I'm not going to discuss it in here though.
  • Fists of FedorFists of Fedor Posts: 786
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    Mythica wrote: »
    You don't deserve a reply.

    Then don't reply. If you are going to reply then at least be civil.
    You're just putting words into my as I've never even said that.

    Really? Sorry if you've not thought through the implications of what you posted, but those are the results.
    Depends on no situation.

    Excuse me?
    I'll talk to someone when I see fit.

    And?
    If they don't want to communicate, that's up to them. Not me and certainly not you.

    And?
  • FrankieFixerFrankieFixer Posts: 11,530
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    Well isn't that what is implied by approaching or commenting on a random stranger that passes you in the street which you could find sexually attractive?

    No wonder you hold these bizarre views if your starting off point of someone saying hello is akin to them flashing you.
    How have I done that? I don't think you understand what free speech is.

    These ridiculous and unworkable rules you listed.
    Taboo? I hope to make simple sexual harassment taboo to be frank.

    Saying hello to the opposite or same sex isn't taboo. Your world sounds like you want some Saudi Arabian mutaween patrolling the streets. It's extremely odd.
  • Fists of FedorFists of Fedor Posts: 786
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    Anyone who's resorted to those insults.

    Right ok. Because it seemed like you resorting to a overarching generalisation - like those you were complaining about. Seems quite easy thing to do, so perhaps you might want to cut a few others on the thread a little slack on their generalisations.
  • SemieroticSemierotic Posts: 11,131
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    As someone who's lived in both London and NYC, I'm certain it's worse over there. Not that it doesn't happen in the UK too, but there's absolutely a cultural element to this.
  • Fists of FedorFists of Fedor Posts: 786
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    Conflating saying hi with gang rape? Are you serious?

    Am I doing that?
  • muggins14muggins14 Posts: 61,844
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    DianaFire wrote: »
    If someone has absolutely no clue about social rules of interaction I'd say they're either trolling or a caveman. Even animals who live in groups have rules.
    For some reason it brings to mind Elliot Rodger, the manifesto he wrote was full of blaming women for his failings - how could they not be interested in his wonderfulness even though he took no time whatsoever to attempt to get to know any women. The whole 'nice guy' situation, which I knew nothing about until I read the threads regarding Elliot Rodger!
  • FrankieFixerFrankieFixer Posts: 11,530
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    DianaFire wrote: »
    That's not the poster who wrote it.

    He's the one who started it.
  • Fists of FedorFists of Fedor Posts: 786
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    No wonder you hold these bizarre views if your starting off point of someone saying hello is akin to them flashing you.

    What exactly do you think you're doing?
    These ridiculous and unworkable rules you listed.

    What was unworkable about them? What was ridculous about them?
    Saying hello to the opposite or same sex isn't taboo. Your world sounds like you want some Saudi Arabian mutaween patrolling the streets. It's extremely odd.

    Since when did I say it was? Who is now try to indulge in reductio ad absurdum?
  • DerekPAgainDerekPAgain Posts: 2,708
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    If saying "hello" in the street is harassment I guess trying to chat someone up in a pub or club is much worse?

    Is the campaign sponsored by Match.com?
  • Fists of FedorFists of Fedor Posts: 786
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    If saying "hello" in the street is harassment I guess trying to chat someone up in a pub or club is much worse?

    Is the campaign sponsored by Match.com?

    Why would you think that?
  • trevgotrevgo Posts: 28,241
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    It's not a question of what is to be "expected" - it's a question of what should be.

    There's lots of things that "should be" in a perfect world. Unfortunately we don't live in one.

    It's what men do. Hooliganism. It's what men do. Racisim. It's what football supporters do.

    It's what some men do. And by this, I'm assuming you believe racism is purely a male preserve? I was assaulted late night on the Tube recently. Only verbal abuse and a bottle of wine poured over me, but it was 3 girls. I pulled the alarm in the station.

    What about women who make twerking vids, or dress deliberately provocatively - do you have the same disgust of them as for the entire male section of the population?

    Why do you think a Law is required, rather than a change in outlook and opinions?

    I would welcome a change in outlook and opinions, but to achieve what you are after will require the chemical castration of a good deal of over-sexed and frustrated men.
    Again, I fail to see "it's a man thing" as justification. I manage to go about without cat calling strangers. If it's a "Man" thing, then perhaps I should do it?

    Neither do I, nor would I if I found women attractive. I also manage to get drunk without ruining other peoples' nights, which is also beyond the capacity of many - male and female.

    You stop behaviour like that, by changing attitudes. 50 years ago, people probably wondered how to stop segregation and the associated attitudes in the United States. You certainly wouldn't go around saying... "It's a white thing...".

    That is a ludicrous comparison.

    So come on. Let us have your wisdom regarding how you go about changing the attitude of the types who do it.
  • FrankieFixerFrankieFixer Posts: 11,530
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    What exactly do you think you're doing?

    Saying hello?
    What was unworkable about them? What was ridculous about them?

    Humans are social creatures, you limiting their free speech or imposing social rules on whom they can talk to and when based on how many bus journeys they might make with them just boggles the mind.
    Since when did I say it was? Who is now try to indulge in reductio ad absurdum?

    Your rules seem to suggest otherwise.
  • wear thefoxhatwear thefoxhat Posts: 3,753
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    epicurian wrote: »
    Are you talking about the video in the OP.

    Yes I am.
  • MythicaMythica Posts: 3,808
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    I was only advising on how to be friendly person which is what you said you did it for with no other motive in mind if there was no other motive when why not try to be friendly to everyone?


    BIB Why don't they because you say they don't and you will; talk to them if they want you to or not just because they dared to leave their house they gave that right up.

    So because I might speak to random people in the street, you feel you have to advise me? Weird. I'll be friendly to anyone I see fit, not who you want me to be friendly with. If I find someone attractive, that's up to me if I decide to talk to them.

    No, because their in a public place :confused: Everyone gives up to privacy in a public place.
  • DianaFireDianaFire Posts: 12,711
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    He's the one who started it.

    Regardless, he didn't use that word so your comment is misdirected.
  • PsychosisPsychosis Posts: 18,591
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    As a young woman, I try to make myself as invisible as possible on the street. I make myself as insignificant as possible, keep my eyes down and often shoulders hunched inward because I walk alone a lot and I hate it when men start talking to me. No woman has ever, ever, said hello to me on the street. The moment a guy speaks to me, when I am blatantly tries to be ignored, I start to feel more tense and uncomfortable. Sometimes "hi" is all I get, but often that turns into a whistle, and a shout, and a "why you ignoring me?" which honestly makes me just want to run in the opposite direction. Except then I have this instinct, don't run, don't show fear. It's intimidating because they are always, without fail, bigger than me, and the fact that they would shout out to me like that shows me they're not good people. You never know when it's going to progress to something more and I've had to hide in a shop before because someone followed me.

    The comments on that youtube video are honestly disturbing.
  • FrankieFixerFrankieFixer Posts: 11,530
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    DianaFire wrote: »
    Regardless, he didn't use that word so your comment is misdirected.

    What word?
  • MythicaMythica Posts: 3,808
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    DianaFire wrote: »
    You can point out what you like, open another thread, whatever. I'm not going to discuss it in here though.

    Exactly I can which is what I did. What's the point of opening a thread about morons when we are already talking about morons? Of course you're not, because then it gets in the way of bashing men down.
  • Fists of FedorFists of Fedor Posts: 786
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    trevgo wrote: »
    There's lots of things that "should be" in a perfect world. Unfortunately we don't live in one.

    And that means what?
    It's what some men do. And by this, I'm assuming you believe racism is purely a male preserve? I was assaulted late night on the Tube recently. Only verbal abuse and a bottle of wine poured over me, but it was 3 girls. I pulled the alarm in the station.

    No actually I didn't. I was just using your "It's what men do" to highlight how it isn't viable it is as a mitigation.
    What about women who make twerking vids, or dress deliberately provocatively - do you have the same disgust of them as for the entire male section of the population?

    What about them? Did I find Miley Cyrus's VMW performance awful and yes, disgusting? Indeed. Do I think that people should be sexually harrassed for how they dress? No.

    Incidentally I have no digust for the entire male section of the population, being one. I do have issues with such behaviour being dismissed as "it's a man thing". I'm a man, and I don't do it Trevgo, so it' clearly isn't a "man thing".
    I would welcome a change in outlook and opinions, but to achieve what you are after will require the chemical castration of a good deal of over-sexed and frustrated men.

    Would it? Did or does dealing with other unacceptable outlooks require such drastic measures? What am I after by the way?
    Neither do I, nor would I if I found women attractive. I also manage to get drunk without ruining other peoples' nights, which is also beyond the capacity of many - male and female.

    So you agree - it's not "A Man thing"...
    That is a ludicrous comparison.

    How so? Both are attitudes which are based on charateristics which can not be changed (realistically). One attitude has challenged with a varying degree of success, without mass murder for example. The other should be able to be achieve as well. It might shock people to realise that we've come a good way from our base origins.
    So come on. Let us have your wisdom regarding how you go about changing the attitude of the types who do it.

    Things like the above help do they not?

    If one person sees that and goes "Shit, perhaps I shouldn't whisper "Thank you Miami" audibly and then check out somebody's backside because it makes me look like a twonk?"

    How about what I'm doing now - trying to get people to think about what people do and if they should be doing it in the first place? If you think I have a panacea for the problem, I do not. Attitudes are rarely changed by a law however.
  • DianaFireDianaFire Posts: 12,711
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    What word?

    The execution of an insult? Please go back through the thread yourself and look.
  • swaydogswaydog Posts: 5,653
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    Semierotic wrote: »
    As someone who's lived in both London and NYC, I'm certain it's worse over there. Not that it doesn't happen in the UK too, but there's absolutely a cultural element to this.

    I've lived in US too and down at the Venice Beach Boardwalk this activity is rife.
    Men to women and vice versa. Me and my mates included.
    They seemed to be much more receptive than this woman though.
    We were constantly approached by women who heard our accents and wanted to chat for a bit.
    They/we mostly said hi back or took the compliment or hung around chatting.
    AKA everyday socialising.
    It's quite refreshing that it is acceptable to strike up a conversation with strangers without being labelled creepy, socially inept or austitic.
    If you don't fancy someone you can still be polite about it.

    Some on here seem to yearn for some Victorian era where it's only acceptable to talk to the opposite sex after being introduced at the Debutant Ball
  • DianaFireDianaFire Posts: 12,711
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    Mythica wrote: »
    Exactly I can which is what I did. What's the point of opening a thread about morons when we are already talking about morons? Of course you're not, because then it gets in the way of bashing men down.

    Is it too much for you to stick to the topic under discussion?
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