Her mother was dying, her relationship had ended, her attempts to break into acting were a failure, it's no wonder The Red Shoes is her worst received album as her life was in a mess. Mind you I find The Dreaming to be hard work( Rolf Harris!).
Agreed - knowing what was going on in Kate's private life at the time does help in terms of understanding the direction of the album and why she made The Lion, The Cross, and the Curve (and why it was such a disaster) rather than tour.
The Dreaming is probably my least favourite Kate album, personally. Some really rave about it but it's not an album I have ever really connected with, even though I've tried. I suspect not caring for The Dreaming may be counted as an unpopular opinion in the Kate fan community?
In other words it came about by chance and his ego got in the way.
no, not really. prince met kate bush in 1990 originally, and she has a thank you credit in the 1991 diamonds and pearls album, so it was a long thing in the making
however kate only asked prince to add backing vocals to it, yet he went way OTT. whilst prince's ego is inversely proportioned to the size of his body, i don't think that was because of ego, but because prince finds it hard to get involved with anything unless he takes complete control, unless he gets bored with something, as he usually and quickly does, and then leaves someone else to finish things off, but that wasn't the case here
But why did she not use the original instead of splitting it perhaps she didn't want to offend or couldn't be arsed with it all
i don't know, but if you've heard the same version as i have that was submitted to prince, it was just a demo and not a complete or finished track. after prince sent it back, kate actually spent 2 years working on it before the final version was released with lenny henry of all people on backing vocals
there are other tracks that prince has submitted to artists who found the material unsuitable/innapropriate for the album they were making, with tracks that simply didn't fit in as they sounded completely different to the rest of the album, and we are talking about artists such as joni mitchel, dolly parton and miles davis for example, but then other people like kenny rogers have accepted the songs he gave them, but in some cases rerecorded the track instead of using prince's backing tracks, but in other cases like the bangles they kept most of the backing (which is pretty much prince on all instruments) and the backing vocals and just replacing the main lead vox and in some cases like the bangles, occasionally adding other instrumentation. whilst manic monday is credited to the bangles, prince plays most of it, brenda bennet and susan moonsie from appolonia 6 who first recorded it are the clear backing vocals and susannah hoffs is the only bangle on it, who did the lead vocals
so kate could have just shelved the track entirely or worked on it again at abbey road where the original demo was recorded. prince did a lot more contributions to the madonna album like a prayer that weren't used in the final album mixes, and others that were used and not credited, so it's not entirely unheard of that his contributions aren't used in the end. ultimately the choice was kates in the end. i don't know what she thought about the final version, but she released it. maybe she liked the quirkyness of it. with her spending 2 years turning it back into a kate bush track, we have no idea what the original track that prince sent her sounds like, just the original demo and the final version. unfortunately the track prince sent back isn't circulating. certainly there are a lot of instruments and backing vocals credited that aren't by prince or his collaborators, such as the wind section and backing vocals by trio bulgarka
she is also credited for backing vocals on the prince track "my computer" from his EMI released triple cd emancipation from 1996, but it's very much a wasted contribution as you can't really make her out at all. i'm not sure where her vocal parts were recorded
it would have been interesting to hear a nice duet from them, something like don't give up with peter gabriel
Agreed - knowing what was going on in Kate's private life at the time does help in terms of understanding the direction of the album and why she made The Lion, The Cross, and the Curve (and why it was such a disaster) rather than tour.
The Dreaming is probably my least favourite Kate album, personally. Some really rave about it but it's not an album I have ever really connected with, even though I've tried. I suspect not caring for The Dreaming may be counted as an unpopular opinion in the Kate fan community?
Haha that is so true i love The Dreaming and along with Aerial, and HOL sight it as one of her best and to disregard is for me blasphemy
And interesting view there unique i suppose much like Prince himself Kate likes to be in control to and both jostled for supremacy ultimately canceling each other out. i like the song and its one of my faves on the album but as you say can't help but feel it could have been so much more.
My CD has sprouted a weird pattern of crystal-like growth, and won't play.
Good job I managed to rip most of it for safekeeping a few years ago.
Const.of.the.H is my favourite, even if the sound quality is appalling side-by-side with other music. The mastering guys must have had an off-day or something. It's horridly 'boxy' in the bass, and harsh up in the kHz.
But some EQ and compression have given me something that sounds passable in the car.
If you've not heard the remastered version, you should definitely buy it! Sounds 100 times better.
In terms of the album itself, I don't think it's a bad one. Other than Big Stripey Lie, Constellation of the Heart and Why Should I Love You, I really enjoy every track. Of course it's not one of her best but perhaps her most accessible. Probably her most "Pop" effort out of her discography. The title track is really something aswell.
Agreed - knowing what was going on in Kate's private life at the time does help in terms of understanding the direction of the album and why she made The Lion, The Cross, and the Curve (and why it was such a disaster) rather than tour.
The Dreaming is probably my least favourite Kate album, personally. Some really rave about it but it's not an album I have ever really connected with, even though I've tried. I suspect not caring for The Dreaming may be counted as an unpopular opinion in the Kate fan community?
The Dreaming was her least successful album commercially and only yielded one fair sized hit. However, she took time out and came storming back in 1985 with her best album ever.
The Dreaming was her least successful album commercially and only yielded one fair sized hit. However, she took time out and came storming back in 1985 with her best album ever.
The dreaming was always destined to be a commercial failure though and I'm sure Kate must have known that while making the album. It was pure art, unshackled creativity and that is the kind of thing that the overwhelming majority of the music-buying public don't like.
Difficult, challenging music doesn't sell; never has never will. However, it was exactly what Kate needed to do at the time. When you consider her trajectory up to that point an LP full of nice, pretty, Adele-esque pop songs would have sold by the bucketload but would have also consigned her to the creative scrapheap.
Her finest achievement was the way that she made that album and then followed it up with the awesome, huge-selling Hounds of Love and somehow managed to make it universal but without compromising artistically.
I think that those two albums back to back are what have cemented Kate's position as a true great. She could both push all the artistic boundaries and climb to the top of the charts and do it all on her own terms.
I bloody hate this album. For a start the production sounds like it was done in someone's bedroom in about 2 hours and tracks like Rubberband Girl and Constellation Of The Heart sound like Shalamar B sides.
Kick Inside, Sensual World and Hounds Of Love are much better.
However, she took time out and came storming back in 1985 with her best album ever.
Hounds of Love is a display of true music genius so that time off must have done her the world of good. I think I just don't "get" The Dreaming for whatever reason, so I can't say whether I think it's a bad or good album. I just know I personally dislike it and can't connect to it on any kind of level at all.
Hounds of Love is a display of true music genius so that time off must have done her the world of good. I think I just don't "get" The Dreaming for whatever reason, so I can't say whether I think it's a bad or good album. I just know I personally dislike it and can't connect to it on any kind of level at all.
It's not a world away from HOL though just not as reined in or as perfected its very much the precursor to the second half of HOL just without the pop tracks to soften it same with Aerial
I've always felt sorry for The Red Shoes. I think it deserves a lot more praise than it's ever received. There are some wicked tunes on there like Rubberband Girl and Top of the City, absolutely beautiful songs like And So Is Love and Moments of Pleasure, and fascinating tracks like Lily, The Red Shoes, and Constellation of the Heart. I feel that the only truly terrible song on the album is Why Should I Love You (and yet the demo is gorgeous - how I wish Kate had just left Prince out of it), and I've never been keen on Eat The Music or You're The One.
I've been listening to this album since I got it on vinyl and I can't help but feel sorry for the whole Red Shoes era. I think the only real stinker about it was The Line, The Cross and The Curve film but even that has its good moments and just needed better direction and a stronger script.
I've always felt sorry for The Red Shoes. I think it deserves a lot more praise than it's ever received. There are some wicked tunes on there like Rubberband Girl and Top of the City, absolutely beautiful songs like And So Is Love and Moments of Pleasure, and fascinating tracks like Lily, The Red Shoes, and Constellation of the Heart. I feel that the only truly terrible song on the album is Why Should I Love You (and yet the demo is gorgeous - how I wish Kate had just left Prince out of it), and I've never been keen on Eat The Music or You're The One.
I've been listening to this album since I got it on vinyl and I can't help but feel sorry for the whole Red Shoes era. I think the only real stinker about it was The Line, The Cross and The Curve film but even that has its good moments and just needed better direction and a stronger script.
It was nice to find this thread.
I just don't think she was wholly invested in it herself and has never been very kind to it which has somewhat tarnished it's reputation. It's also he rmsot mainstream and lacks the true genius of albums like HOL, The Dreaming and latter albums such as Aerial. I like it it's disjointed and messy inplaces and the production isn't perfect but i really like it. And i like the LTCATC it gives the era a character it would ahve otherwise been lacking. I have always felt the problem with her succeeding albums was whilst heya re better they are released and left. At least with TRS there was a little bit of the old Kate doing he rbit for the music video.
Comments
Agreed - knowing what was going on in Kate's private life at the time does help in terms of understanding the direction of the album and why she made The Lion, The Cross, and the Curve (and why it was such a disaster) rather than tour.
The Dreaming is probably my least favourite Kate album, personally. Some really rave about it but it's not an album I have ever really connected with, even though I've tried. I suspect not caring for The Dreaming may be counted as an unpopular opinion in the Kate fan community?
no, not really. prince met kate bush in 1990 originally, and she has a thank you credit in the 1991 diamonds and pearls album, so it was a long thing in the making
however kate only asked prince to add backing vocals to it, yet he went way OTT. whilst prince's ego is inversely proportioned to the size of his body, i don't think that was because of ego, but because prince finds it hard to get involved with anything unless he takes complete control, unless he gets bored with something, as he usually and quickly does, and then leaves someone else to finish things off, but that wasn't the case here
i don't know, but if you've heard the same version as i have that was submitted to prince, it was just a demo and not a complete or finished track. after prince sent it back, kate actually spent 2 years working on it before the final version was released with lenny henry of all people on backing vocals
there are other tracks that prince has submitted to artists who found the material unsuitable/innapropriate for the album they were making, with tracks that simply didn't fit in as they sounded completely different to the rest of the album, and we are talking about artists such as joni mitchel, dolly parton and miles davis for example, but then other people like kenny rogers have accepted the songs he gave them, but in some cases rerecorded the track instead of using prince's backing tracks, but in other cases like the bangles they kept most of the backing (which is pretty much prince on all instruments) and the backing vocals and just replacing the main lead vox and in some cases like the bangles, occasionally adding other instrumentation. whilst manic monday is credited to the bangles, prince plays most of it, brenda bennet and susan moonsie from appolonia 6 who first recorded it are the clear backing vocals and susannah hoffs is the only bangle on it, who did the lead vocals
so kate could have just shelved the track entirely or worked on it again at abbey road where the original demo was recorded. prince did a lot more contributions to the madonna album like a prayer that weren't used in the final album mixes, and others that were used and not credited, so it's not entirely unheard of that his contributions aren't used in the end. ultimately the choice was kates in the end. i don't know what she thought about the final version, but she released it. maybe she liked the quirkyness of it. with her spending 2 years turning it back into a kate bush track, we have no idea what the original track that prince sent her sounds like, just the original demo and the final version. unfortunately the track prince sent back isn't circulating. certainly there are a lot of instruments and backing vocals credited that aren't by prince or his collaborators, such as the wind section and backing vocals by trio bulgarka
she is also credited for backing vocals on the prince track "my computer" from his EMI released triple cd emancipation from 1996, but it's very much a wasted contribution as you can't really make her out at all. i'm not sure where her vocal parts were recorded
it would have been interesting to hear a nice duet from them, something like don't give up with peter gabriel
Haha that is so true i love The Dreaming and along with Aerial, and HOL sight it as one of her best and to disregard is for me blasphemy
And interesting view there unique i suppose much like Prince himself Kate likes to be in control to and both jostled for supremacy ultimately canceling each other out. i like the song and its one of my faves on the album but as you say can't help but feel it could have been so much more.
Good job I managed to rip most of it for safekeeping a few years ago.
Const.of.the.H is my favourite, even if the sound quality is appalling side-by-side with other music. The mastering guys must have had an off-day or something. It's horridly 'boxy' in the bass, and harsh up in the kHz.
But some EQ and compression have given me something that sounds passable in the car.
In terms of the album itself, I don't think it's a bad one. Other than Big Stripey Lie, Constellation of the Heart and Why Should I Love You, I really enjoy every track. Of course it's not one of her best but perhaps her most accessible. Probably her most "Pop" effort out of her discography. The title track is really something aswell.
The Dreaming was her least successful album commercially and only yielded one fair sized hit. However, she took time out and came storming back in 1985 with her best album ever.
The dreaming was always destined to be a commercial failure though and I'm sure Kate must have known that while making the album. It was pure art, unshackled creativity and that is the kind of thing that the overwhelming majority of the music-buying public don't like.
Difficult, challenging music doesn't sell; never has never will. However, it was exactly what Kate needed to do at the time. When you consider her trajectory up to that point an LP full of nice, pretty, Adele-esque pop songs would have sold by the bucketload but would have also consigned her to the creative scrapheap.
Her finest achievement was the way that she made that album and then followed it up with the awesome, huge-selling Hounds of Love and somehow managed to make it universal but without compromising artistically.
I think that those two albums back to back are what have cemented Kate's position as a true great. She could both push all the artistic boundaries and climb to the top of the charts and do it all on her own terms.
Kick Inside, Sensual World and Hounds Of Love are much better.
Hounds of Love is a display of true music genius so that time off must have done her the world of good. I think I just don't "get" The Dreaming for whatever reason, so I can't say whether I think it's a bad or good album. I just know I personally dislike it and can't connect to it on any kind of level at all.
It's not a world away from HOL though just not as reined in or as perfected its very much the precursor to the second half of HOL just without the pop tracks to soften it same with Aerial
Spoken like a true KB fan :;)
I've been listening to this album since I got it on vinyl and I can't help but feel sorry for the whole Red Shoes era. I think the only real stinker about it was The Line, The Cross and The Curve film but even that has its good moments and just needed better direction and a stronger script.
It was nice to find this thread.
I just don't think she was wholly invested in it herself and has never been very kind to it which has somewhat tarnished it's reputation. It's also he rmsot mainstream and lacks the true genius of albums like HOL, The Dreaming and latter albums such as Aerial. I like it it's disjointed and messy inplaces and the production isn't perfect but i really like it. And i like the LTCATC it gives the era a character it would ahve otherwise been lacking. I have always felt the problem with her succeeding albums was whilst heya re better they are released and left. At least with TRS there was a little bit of the old Kate doing he rbit for the music video.