Not sure where you are getting this from. The stock price at the weekend prior to the shipments announcement was around $470, it rose to $490'ish on the news, and has stayed at that figure since. Not sure where the huge crash when investors "saw through the deception" is.
There is no deception as you say.
For Apple they have shipped 9m units. So that's awesome and no wonder their stock price rose.
However retailers are less than impressed due to the fact that they have loads of unsold phones sitting in their warehouses.
But Apple could care less as they've already sold all the 9m stock to retailers.
For Apple they have shipped 9m units. So that's awesome and no wonder their stock price rose.
However retailers are less than impressed due to the fact that they have loads of unsold phones sitting in their warehouses.
But Apple could care less as they've already sold all the 9m stock to retailers.
I was simply responding to the fact that both Zack06 and sancheeez said that the share price crashed as soon as investors realised that the sales figures were not true sales figures to customers. It didn't, it stayed the same.
I was simply responding to the fact that both Zack06 and sancheeez said that the share price crashed as soon as investors realised that the sales figures were not true sales figures to customers. It didn't, it stayed the same.
It's not a case of doubting it. I read a thread on Macrumors which seemed to have a lot of people stating as fact that the sales reported are actual customer sales. This may be wrong but that why I said 'As I understand it'. I have no reason to believe or disbelieve them.
I don't care enough to read a 75 page document. If you could paraphrase the relevant section or point me to an article written from a credible newspaper then I may read it.
But I simply don't care enough. I guess the stock price jumped quite a lot on the results being announced so I guess that's really the bottom line reaction
It's not a case of doubting it. I read a thread on Macrumors which seemed to have a lot of people stating as fact that the sales reported are actual customer sales. This may be wrong but that why I said 'As I understand it'. I have no reason to believe or disbelieve them.
I don't care enough to read a 75 page document. If you could paraphrase the relevant section or point me to an article written from a credible newspaper then I may read it.
But I simply don't care enough. I guess the stock price jumped quite a lot on the results being announced so I guess that's really the bottom line reaction
Mac Rumours is full of Apple fanboys so anything you read on there is some hyped up Apple promotion.
Click on the link i provided. Then CTRL+F and type in "Shipped". It's the first paragraph that comes up.
If we're talking 5s, then it is most definitely sold. However, they are counting the 5c in the 9 million figure to inflate that number. They shipped 3.5 million 5c's, sold 5.5 million 5s' leaving an unknown number of 5c's actually sold. Presumably they sold some, so we know the actual total sales over the 3 days lies between 5.5 million and 9 million.
However you cut it, it was a good weekend.
"Since the 5s did not have a pre-order window it is even more impressive since the vast majority of 5s’ sold were to customers and not channel fill."
If we're talking 5s, then it is most definitely sold. However, they are counting the 5c in the 9 million figure to inflate that number. They shipped 3.5 million 5c's, sold 5.5 million 5s' leaving an unknown number of 5c's actually sold. Presumably they sold some, so we know the actual total sales over the 3 days lies between 5.5 million and 9 million.
However you cut it, it was a good weekend.
"Since the 5s did not have a pre-order window it is even more impressive since the vast majority of 5s’ sold were to customers and not channel fill."
Can you not read? How are people ignoring the obvious here. It's not hard. Let me explain what channel fill means-
There are approximately 3.5m iphone 5C's UNSOLD!
Apple sold approximately 5.5m iPhone 5S's and 5C's combined to the end consumer.
Like i said in my previous post Apple are estimated to have sold 4m Iphone 5's and 1.5m iPhone 5C's making a total of 5.5m sold to end consumer with 3.5m unsold stock currently in warehouses. It is highly likely that 95% of this un sold stock would be iPhone 5C's.
The 'vast majority' of the 5.5mil figure is 5s sales - actual sales - the rest are in channel awaiting sales.
So what? Manufacturers do this.
I think the assertion that so many 'unsold' 5c means failure is wrong. It's not like Apple are about to write down the cost of these phones, sell 'em cheap any time soon. They are masters of this art, and will most likely slow production of particular models/colours that don't perform well.
You just have to look at the 4S. Free on contract or PAYG - undoubtably the least popular (seeing as it's a 2 year old model). Do they count as unsold if they lie in Carphone Warehouses', er, warehouse? They might, but then the inventory is probably not replenished that frequently if, indeed, Apple still make them.
Bottom line - lots of phones sold, figures artificially pumped, and no use of the word 'smooth' to hide the facts.
The 'vast majority' of the 5.5mil figure is 5s sales - actual sales - the rest are in channel awaiting sales.
So what? Manufacturers do this.
No, you're still wrong. Nowhere does it say that 5.5m sales are just 5s sales. It clearly says 4m iPhone 5s sales total. 3.5m phones are in channel with the vast majority being iPhone 5c's. But of course these are all estimates. All we know for fact is 9m iPhones shipped by Apple in total.
Clearly you haven't been reading my posts where i've said all manufacturers state shipped numbers.
..which seemed to have a lot of people stating as fact that the sales reported are actual customer sales.....
Most Apple facts are made up, usually an exaggeration of a very small number of knowns.
If one fact comes to light that puts Apple in too negative a light, Apple will then issue an ambiguous leading statement or do some show of generosity to their advantage.
Having only just read that 'spoiler' I slightly wonder if this is slight retribution for the UK networks moaning about low sales and the quota contract earlier this year.
They could now be very low in the pecking order for receiving the 5s.
Those figures mentioned otherwise shout out 'very serious disaster'.
Considering the 5c should have been £250, a few weeks wait might well mean great deals will abound.
It would be interesting to know what quota they have to sell this coming 12 months.
No. Apple sold 9m to it's customers which is great.
Not really. It's hardly a leap for all the mobile retailers and operators around the world to make the enlightened management decision of stocking iPhones. Initial demand will always result in sales.
I don't doubt that the 5S will be a success and the 5C will sell (although, I do take the view it is priced too close to the 5S). All of this one week in analysis is virtually useless. There's so many people that will always buy iPhones at launch, and so many that will naturally upgrade within their phone upgrade cycle. The only meaningful information will come after total sales and any increase/decrease in market share at the next launch.
This should not come as a surprise since it's basically an iPhone 5 in a plastic case at iPhone 5 prices. If it had been a genuine mid range smartphone at an appropriate price then they would have flown off the shelves. Apple will not gain market share in east Asian countries with this phone.
Having only just read that 'spoiler' I slightly wonder if this is slight retribution for the UK networks moaning about low sales and the quota contract earlier this year.
They could now be very low in the pecking order for receiving the 5s.
Those figures mentioned otherwise shout out 'very serious disaster'.
Considering the 5c should have been £250, a few weeks wait might well mean great deals will abound.
It would be interesting to know what quota they have to sell this coming 12 months.
This is a very interesting point. How exactly are the retailers going to sell this massive stockpile of 5C's if Apple basically don't allow them to discount? Will we see big batches of these being sold on Amazon for way under rrp by 'subsidaries'/trading partners of the major retailers/networks? Plus this vast unsold sea of Sc's is going to adversely affect future sales statements from Apple as they have already been counted as sales once. On the flip side of this, if Apple allow discounting and the phone is sold at the price it should have been all along does this adversely affect sales of the 5S?
...On the flip side of this, if Apple allow discounting and the phone is sold at the price it should have been all along does this adversely affect sales of the 5S?
I'd think free phone contracts will be much better value with the 5c maybe £10 a month less. Plenty of people still want an iPhone so may be happy to save £120 year.
Also we have DomoCO Japan and all of China added this time round too.
It confirms that all those masses of unsold 5C stock at 3 etc is classed as a sale.
In other words, that's highly dubious and misleading accounting because a couple of million actual customer sales have not, in fact, taken place.
Just for the record, here's how the 5C and 5S were produced in such large numbers:
In these factories, pregnant women were made to work the same long hours as other workers, putting in 11-hour days for six days per week," the CLW report said. Chinese law restricts employers from asking pregnant women to work more than eight hours a day. CLW also claimed Pegatron employs workers under 18 – breaching both Chinese law and Apple's strict employment code. "Underage workers often enter the factories as student 'interns' required to work at factories by vocational schools," the report said. Pegatron denied that it employed underage staff. http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/jul/29/apple-investugates-claims-china-factory
Why does apple being doomed bother you either way, you being so relaxed about the issue and I am sure i can find just a little glee being taken by you at the supposed figures if I look back at the thread
You keep saying this as if it is actually part of apples business plan and an actual fact, it is merely your conjecture to deflect from the appalling sales of the 5c which do seem pretty pants.
On a plus side though imagine how pretty those land fill sites will look in a few months
Its not about Apple half as much as you probably think it is. It's more about people posting utter nonsense, the subject happening to be Apple. For some reason Apple is one of those subjects where common sense seems in scarce supply a lot of the time.
I don't think I've said anything particularly gleeful. As I said before it's far less about being particularly bothered about the figures, and far more about the disbelief that anyone could possibly describe them as poor.
By all means quote anything you thought was gleeful though...
Yes, the idea that more people who would go out and buy a new phone in the week of release would be the sort of people who want the latest and greatest flagship model is entirely conjecture on my part.
How about instead of just dismissing it as conjecture, you try to string a constructive counter argument together explaining why you think that wouldn't be the case?
Comments
There is no deception as you say.
For Apple they have shipped 9m units. So that's awesome and no wonder their stock price rose.
However retailers are less than impressed due to the fact that they have loads of unsold phones sitting in their warehouses.
But Apple could care less as they've already sold all the 9m stock to retailers.
I think the stock price rose because of the update they gave regarding their financial targets.
I was simply responding to the fact that both Zack06 and sancheeez said that the share price crashed as soon as investors realised that the sales figures were not true sales figures to customers. It didn't, it stayed the same.
I was agreeing.
It's not a case of doubting it. I read a thread on Macrumors which seemed to have a lot of people stating as fact that the sales reported are actual customer sales. This may be wrong but that why I said 'As I understand it'. I have no reason to believe or disbelieve them.
I don't care enough to read a 75 page document. If you could paraphrase the relevant section or point me to an article written from a credible newspaper then I may read it.
But I simply don't care enough. I guess the stock price jumped quite a lot on the results being announced so I guess that's really the bottom line reaction
Mac Rumours is full of Apple fanboys so anything you read on there is some hyped up Apple promotion.
Click on the link i provided. Then CTRL+F and type in "Shipped". It's the first paragraph that comes up.
If we're talking 5s, then it is most definitely sold. However, they are counting the 5c in the 9 million figure to inflate that number. They shipped 3.5 million 5c's, sold 5.5 million 5s' leaving an unknown number of 5c's actually sold. Presumably they sold some, so we know the actual total sales over the 3 days lies between 5.5 million and 9 million.
However you cut it, it was a good weekend.
"Since the 5s did not have a pre-order window it is even more impressive since the vast majority of 5s’ sold were to customers and not channel fill."
www.forbes.com
Can you not read? How are people ignoring the obvious here. It's not hard. Let me explain what channel fill means-
There are approximately 3.5m iphone 5C's UNSOLD!
Apple sold approximately 5.5m iPhone 5S's and 5C's combined to the end consumer.
Like i said in my previous post Apple are estimated to have sold 4m Iphone 5's and 1.5m iPhone 5C's making a total of 5.5m sold to end consumer with 3.5m unsold stock currently in warehouses. It is highly likely that 95% of this un sold stock would be iPhone 5C's.
The 'vast majority' of the 5.5mil figure is 5s sales - actual sales - the rest are in channel awaiting sales.
So what? Manufacturers do this.
I think the assertion that so many 'unsold' 5c means failure is wrong. It's not like Apple are about to write down the cost of these phones, sell 'em cheap any time soon. They are masters of this art, and will most likely slow production of particular models/colours that don't perform well.
You just have to look at the 4S. Free on contract or PAYG - undoubtably the least popular (seeing as it's a 2 year old model). Do they count as unsold if they lie in Carphone Warehouses', er, warehouse? They might, but then the inventory is probably not replenished that frequently if, indeed, Apple still make them.
Bottom line - lots of phones sold, figures artificially pumped, and no use of the word 'smooth' to hide the facts.
No, you're still wrong. Nowhere does it say that 5.5m sales are just 5s sales. It clearly says 4m iPhone 5s sales total. 3.5m phones are in channel with the vast majority being iPhone 5c's. But of course these are all estimates. All we know for fact is 9m iPhones shipped by Apple in total.
Clearly you haven't been reading my posts where i've said all manufacturers state shipped numbers.
Most Apple facts are made up, usually an exaggeration of a very small number of knowns.
If one fact comes to light that puts Apple in too negative a light, Apple will then issue an ambiguous leading statement or do some show of generosity to their advantage.
I'd be lying if I said I'd read the whole thread.
Nevertheless, Apple sold 5.5m phones. To customers. Is that not good?
They could now be very low in the pecking order for receiving the 5s.
Those figures mentioned otherwise shout out 'very serious disaster'.
Considering the 5c should have been £250, a few weeks wait might well mean great deals will abound.
It would be interesting to know what quota they have to sell this coming 12 months.
fair point
No. Apple sold 9m to it's customers which is great.
Not really. It's hardly a leap for all the mobile retailers and operators around the world to make the enlightened management decision of stocking iPhones. Initial demand will always result in sales.
I don't doubt that the 5S will be a success and the 5C will sell (although, I do take the view it is priced too close to the 5S). All of this one week in analysis is virtually useless. There's so many people that will always buy iPhones at launch, and so many that will naturally upgrade within their phone upgrade cycle. The only meaningful information will come after total sales and any increase/decrease in market share at the next launch.
This should not come as a surprise since it's basically an iPhone 5 in a plastic case at iPhone 5 prices. If it had been a genuine mid range smartphone at an appropriate price then they would have flown off the shelves. Apple will not gain market share in east Asian countries with this phone.
This is a very interesting point. How exactly are the retailers going to sell this massive stockpile of 5C's if Apple basically don't allow them to discount? Will we see big batches of these being sold on Amazon for way under rrp by 'subsidaries'/trading partners of the major retailers/networks? Plus this vast unsold sea of Sc's is going to adversely affect future sales statements from Apple as they have already been counted as sales once. On the flip side of this, if Apple allow discounting and the phone is sold at the price it should have been all along does this adversely affect sales of the 5S?
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/09/24/apples-big-iphone-beat-may-have-gotten-boost-from-unsold-5cs/
Also we have DomoCO Japan and all of China added this time round too.
It confirms that all those masses of unsold 5C stock at 3 etc is classed as a sale.
I'd think free phone contracts will be much better value with the 5c maybe £10 a month less. Plenty of people still want an iPhone so may be happy to save £120 year.
In other words, that's highly dubious and misleading accounting because a couple of million actual customer sales have not, in fact, taken place.
Just for the record, here's how the 5C and 5S were produced in such large numbers:
In these factories, pregnant women were made to work the same long hours as other workers, putting in 11-hour days for six days per week," the CLW report said. Chinese law restricts employers from asking pregnant women to work more than eight hours a day. CLW also claimed Pegatron employs workers under 18 – breaching both Chinese law and Apple's strict employment code. "Underage workers often enter the factories as student 'interns' required to work at factories by vocational schools," the report said. Pegatron denied that it employed underage staff.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/jul/29/apple-investugates-claims-china-factory
It is for the media to make of it what they want
The iPhone 5C's will sell over time, just means apple will slow production of 5C and ramp up 5S like they already have started.
Its not about Apple half as much as you probably think it is. It's more about people posting utter nonsense, the subject happening to be Apple. For some reason Apple is one of those subjects where common sense seems in scarce supply a lot of the time.
I don't think I've said anything particularly gleeful. As I said before it's far less about being particularly bothered about the figures, and far more about the disbelief that anyone could possibly describe them as poor.
By all means quote anything you thought was gleeful though...
Yes, the idea that more people who would go out and buy a new phone in the week of release would be the sort of people who want the latest and greatest flagship model is entirely conjecture on my part.
How about instead of just dismissing it as conjecture, you try to string a constructive counter argument together explaining why you think that wouldn't be the case?
Exactly. The 5c was never about market share. But being only slightly cheaper than the 5s, it still ensures healthy profit for each sale.