DTC should step down

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  • Ell_RenEll_Ren Posts: 9,911
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    No
    Mr_Eye wrote: »
    A lot of Eastenders fans seem to be under the delusion that all it will take is a few months of decent quality drama and the viewers that have been lost will return. They won't, they're gone and will never come back.

    This ^

    Plus there is so much negativity about the show on here. I think there are some posters that will never be happy.
  • calvin_jonescalvin_jones Posts: 105
    Forum Member
    No
    I think the Carters are huge turn off for some. I genuinely don't get the praise they receive on this forum but its only place I do see it.

    I totally agree with what Alan Sugar said about them. Their whole back story is flawed. You need to use a huge amount of escapism to believe it. Also the whole happy clappy Walton's stuff is cringe worthy. The family seem to have been modelled on the Slater's but the Slater's were much better. Kat was a legend from the second she appeared. That is true genius. Everything about the Carters is so forced. DTC can keep telling us Linda and Shirley are icons as much as he wants. Doesn't mean its true because it isn't. Will 14 million people tune in on Christmas Day to see the Mick and Shirley reveal like they did with Stax? I doubt it.

    DTC is a good EP however. Apart from the Carter overuse he has made some fantastic changes. I'd like to see less of Shirley & co and have more of Pam & Les, Yvonne, Charlie and Ronnie etc.
  • OldnjadedOldnjaded Posts: 89,126
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    0...0 wrote: »
    Do not besmirch our Soap Messiah's name!! >:(>:(:D
    She's a cracking writer, started on EE, wrote The Crimson Field and is adapting JK Rowling's 'Casual Vacancy' for the telly. She had a knack of making me believe the unbelievable.
    :D Sorry Mrs Ooze, I'm sure she's brilliant, but a) cracking writers do not necessarily make cracking EPs and b) there isn't a Messiah alive (or getting ready for his/her 2nd coming), who will please DS-ers for more than 5 minutes at a time. :D

    As a throwback to pre-internet/pre-DS/pre-Twitter/Facebook etc days, I remember when the only thing we ever knew about EPs, writers etc was their name on the credits at the end of the show and we watched the show or we didn't, without hour upon hour of pointless agonising about it. :)

    But then I also remember when football managers didn't get sacked after 5 games too. :(
  • 0...00...0 Posts: 21,111
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    Don't know
    Oldnjaded wrote: »
    :D Sorry Mrs Ooze, I'm sure she's brilliant, but a) cracking writers do not necessarily make cracking EPs and b) there isn't a Messiah alive (or getting ready for his/her 2nd coming), who will please DS-ers for more than 5 minutes at a time. :D

    As a throwback to pre-internet/pre-DS/pre-Twitter/Facebook etc days, I remember when the only thing we ever knew about EPs, writers etc was their name on the credits at the end of the show and we watched the show or we didn't, without hour upon hour of pointless agonising about it. :)

    But then I also remember when football managers didn't get sacked after 5 games too. :(

    Oh I do agree. My tongue was firmly in cheek. Everything is analysed to death these days and you can't please everyone. Thats not a criticism as such as it can be great fun to speculate, pick an episode apart etc and I have no problem with people speculating about EPs.

    Yes pre internet 2 or 3 episodes a week did have it's advantages. Must admit I'd never heard of any of these people apart from the woman who created EE before I started coming on here. :D I know more about Stuart Blackburn and Brian Kirkwood than some members of my own family and I don't even watch their shows. :blush: This forum must scare the crap out of the producers. :D
  • Yoshi FanYoshi Fan Posts: 13,905
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    No
    dan2008 wrote: »
    The pacing is terrible. The plot holes are worse though.

    He improved it and had a good start of the year. It got rubbish in the summer and improved for a couple of weeks in September but apart from the odd half decent episode it's just not doing it for me.

    I am not an EastEnders hater far from it as many on this form know. I just don't think the show is anywhere near as good and unmissable as it could be and should be.

    Dan, this post and particularly the BIB is exactly how I feel.

    I see so many saying stuff like "EE is brilliant" "back to its best" and "DTC has turned the show around" and while I respect their opinions and am glad they're enjoying the show, I don't feel it. Don't get me wrong, the show isn't BAD at all. It's decent enough, it's watchable...but for EastEnders merely being "watchable" isn't good enough.

    There's no doubt he's improved the show from Kirkwood and Newman, but it wasn't hard to improve on rock bottom. With the Christmas episode next month and the 30th 3 months away, I should be gripped by each episode, be hooked on the storylines and be excited for the next episodes to come around...and I'm not. My attention with each episode is just wavering and I find it hard to care about most of what's happening right now. Watching EastEnders has become a chore at times and that saddens me.

    Having said all that, I voted no. I don't believe he should go just yet, but he does need to improve the storylines and pacing of them. The show has all the ingredients to be fantastic, but right now DTC just hasn't got the recipe right for me.
  • LHolmesLHolmes Posts: 13,887
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    No
    It's the usual suspects who have voted yes I see.

    It can't be high drama all of the time you need the character development in between or you end up with a show severely lacking in depth like Hollyoaks.

    I'm not that fussed about Johnny going. He's been in it less than a year. The way people are going on you would think he's lost June or Adam.
  • dan2008dan2008 Posts: 37,271
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    Yes
    Yoshi Fan wrote: »
    Dan, this post and particularly the BIB is exactly how I feel.

    I see so many saying stuff like "EE is brilliant" "back to its best" and "DTC has turned the show around" and while I respect their opinions and am glad they're enjoying the show, I don't feel it. Don't get me wrong, the show isn't BAD at all. It's decent enough, it's watchable...but for EastEnders merely being "watchable" isn't good enough.

    There's no doubt he's improved the show from Kirkwood and Newman, but it wasn't hard to improve on rock bottom. With the Christmas episode next month and the 30th 3 months away, I should be gripped by each episode, be hooked on the storylines and be excited for the next episodes to come around...and I'm not. My attention with each episode is just wavering and I find it hard to care about most of what's happening right now. Watching EastEnders has become a chore at times and that saddens me.

    Having said all that, I voted no. I don't believe he should go just yet, but he does need to improve the storylines and pacing of them. The show has all the ingredients to be fantastic, but right now DTC just hasn't got the recipe right for me.
    It has improved of course. Kirkwood ruined the show so much that we can still see the effects of that now. Characters ruined (Kat & Alfie for starters)

    DTC has done some good work that won't go without being noticed but it does as you say feel like a chore at times. We get one half decent episode every now and again while the rest just plods on and a snails pace. The big storylines we have had are dropped for weeks on end leaving you not caring when they return.
    Pink_Smurf wrote: »
    BIB Wedding week was terrible. I don't think DTC should step down though. I don't like the way the stories have been in blocks but I do like what he has done with the Carters. I think he should stay for another year and see how it goes before calling for him to step down.
    Too much is being put on to the carters I feel.
    Oldnjaded wrote: »
    Lolz! :D:D

    Why do so many soap fans labour under the constant delusion that somewhere out there the 'Soap Messiah' is just waiting in the wings to come in and rescue their particular soap?:D

    As soon as every ep isn't 'brilliant tonite innit' in their blinkered eyes, they assume that the EP has to go and some new 'Saviour' be brought in who has magically found the secret of pleasing everybody all of the time. :kitty:

    But frankly dan2008 - unless you've suddenly had a Damascene moment, after all your years of blind defending and lauding of EE, you really should at least have the grace to blush right now. ;-)
    :blush::blush::blush::blush:
    Mr_Eye wrote: »
    A lot of Eastenders fans seem to be under the delusion that all it will take is a few months of decent quality drama and the viewers that have been lost will return. They won't, they're gone and will never come back.
    Everything takes time but the show is not moving in the right direction or in fact any direction. It's just plodding along which isn't good enough.
    xTonix wrote: »
    This is the first time I have ever disagreed with you Dan, DTC is has turned EE around so much.
    :o
  • dan2008dan2008 Posts: 37,271
    Forum Member
    Yes
    LHolmes wrote: »
    It's the usual suspects who have voted yes I see.

    It can't be high drama all of the time you need the character development in between or you end up with a show severely lacking in depth like Hollyoaks.

    I'm not that fussed about Johnny going. He's been in it less than a year. The way people are going on you would think he's lost June or Adam.
    I voted yes :confused:

    Of course and I wouldn't want it to be anything like Hollyoaks I just think we need something a little more. Something to keep you tuned in and wanting the next episode to hurry up.

    I agree regarding Johnny. If it was a character like Phil,Dot,Ian,Carol ect leaving then I would have concerns but lets face it Johnny as sexy as he is doesn't actually do much
    He will leave and be easily forgotten.
  • MrJamesMrJames Posts: 8,127
    Forum Member
    No
    Absolutely not, no way. Rebuilding and reshaping EastEnders is a hard task and dropping the ball in the middle of that task would just be silly.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 268
    Forum Member
    Yes
    Didn't he said last year eastenders will become the best drama on televison atm it is so shit
  • dan2008dan2008 Posts: 37,271
    Forum Member
    Yes
    The Main problems with EastEnders at the moment in my opinion are:

    *Lack of a Bitch which is something we have missed since Janine left
    *Lack of a matriarch which has been missing since Peggy & Pet left
    *Lack of a proper comedy Duo like Peggy and Pat
    *Storylines being dropped at the drop of an hat
    How is Patrick after his stoke? Is Denise really an alcoholic?
    *Is Phil back to his old self after the Shooting?
    *Where is Aleks wife? Why hasn't she came back to the Square?

    Kat and Alfie plot dropped and then re started
    The Cotton storylines stop and start like no tomorrow.

    The Plots and scripts have so many holes in that you can drive 3 London busses side by side though.

    There is a lack of storylines that keep you hooked and want more but that's down to the whole pacing.

    Characters you don't see for weeks on end and then pop up and do very little.
  • dan2008dan2008 Posts: 37,271
    Forum Member
    Yes
    Didn't he said last year eastenders will become the best drama on televison atm it is so shit
    He did and agreed.
    MrJames wrote: »
    Absolutely not, no way. Rebuilding and reshaping EastEnders is a hard task and dropping the ball in the middle of that task would just be silly.
    Dom needs to make sure EastEnders is at the top of it's game in the run up to Christmas. No if's or But's it needs to be exciting and talked about.
    Last year EastEnders pulled in it's worst ever Christmas ratings due to the poor state of the show which is fair enough but we can not repeat that this year leading into the big 30.
  • MrJamesMrJames Posts: 8,127
    Forum Member
    No
    dan2008 wrote: »
    :cry:Thank you :-)
    I like to think so :D

    Not at all. I just don't like seeing EastEnders plodding along like it is. The show should be mega exciting as we enter Christmas and the 30th but it's not. Fire Week and The Wedding week was Brilliant but it's really died down since.
    The Rape storyline was acted very well but that's all.
    Halloween Week was ok but nothing special. I like the Carters but too much is going on for them storyline wise and they are not enough to carry the show.

    But surely that just goes to show that the current production team are capable of brilliant things? From Lucy's death to the epic September we've seen real excitement and magic. A few weeks of quiet episodes simply don't bother me at all as long as the drama is paid off - and it is.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 268
    Forum Member
    Yes
    I want eastenders to be like it was late 2009 to the anniversary everybody was talking about it that time, that is when eastenders was unmissable. With who killed archie, Stacey and Bradley and the Bianca and Ricky wedding. But In Mid December I think it is going to be huge until the anniversary.
  • dan2008dan2008 Posts: 37,271
    Forum Member
    Yes
    MrJames wrote: »
    But surely that just goes to show that the current production team are capable of brilliant things? From Lucy's death to the epic September we've seen real excitement and magic. A few weeks of quiet episodes simply don't bother me at all as long as the drama is paid off - and it is.
    Capable yeah but doing no.

    Lucy's death was brilliant and so was the aftermath but it really died down in may and didn't restart again until September. The June to September period was terrible and it felt like some of Dom's work was undone.

    October again was pretty poor and November hasn't had the best of starts.
  • bass55bass55 Posts: 18,319
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    No
    Errr no. Why should he step down? The guy has spent the last year rebuilding the show from the dire mess it became under Kirkwood and Newman. Its obvious that DTC has worked his arse off to get the show back to where it is now, and he is the first producer in over a decade to have a clear passion and respect for the ethos and history of EastEnders. He really 'gets' the show unlike many of his predecessors.

    EastEnders is not amazing, and it will never reach the creative peaks it hit during the show's first twenty years, but I'd argue at the moment its the best its been for many, many years. It really has a lot going for it: a great cast, and several interesting storylines going on at once. It makes no sense to get rid of the man responsible for that success after barely a year in the job.
  • HarloweHarlowe Posts: 20,005
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    0...0 wrote: »
    Do not besmirch our Soap Messiah's name!! >:(>:(:D
    She's a cracking writer, started on EE, wrote The Crimson Field and is adapting JK Rowling's 'Casual Vacancy' for the telly. She had a knack of making me believe the unbelievable.

    Sarah Phelps, great writer, can't wait for Casual Vacancy.
  • dan2008dan2008 Posts: 37,271
    Forum Member
    Yes
    Harlowe wrote: »
    Sarah Phelps, great writer, can't wait for Casual Vacancy.
    Perhaps Sarah could take job as EP ?
    Great writer that Understands EastEnders very well. We can't have much worse than Kirkwood surely?
  • lotty27lotty27 Posts: 17,858
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    No
    Oldnjaded wrote: »
    :D Sorry Mrs Ooze, I'm sure she's brilliant, but a) cracking writers do not necessarily make cracking EPs and b) there isn't a Messiah alive (or getting ready for his/her 2nd coming), who will please DS-ers for more than 5 minutes at a time.

    As a throwback to pre-internet/pre-DS/pre-Twitter/Facebook etc days, I remember when the only thing we ever knew about EPs, writers etc was their name on the credits at the end of the show and we watched the show or we didn't, without hour upon hour of pointless agonising about it.

    But then I also remember when football managers didn't get sacked after 5 games too.

    BIB: Can't agree more with this. I had no idea who was who on the production teams on any soap before I started reading DS forums (like most I lurked before I joined), I didn't have a clue and neither I suspect do many viewers out there, even today. They might recognise a name but not be able to put it in proper context. It's just us bonkers lot on here (other internet places are available, lol!) who are 'in the know' and go on about it :D
    LHolmes wrote: »
    It's the usual suspects who have voted yes I see.

    It can't be high drama all of the time you need the character development in between or you end up with a show severely lacking in depth like Hollyoaks.

    I'm not that fussed about Johnny going. He's been in it less than a year. The way people are going on you would think he's lost June or Adam.

    Me neither. It's hardly the end of the world! I honestly don't know why people are getting their knickers in a twist about it :confused: Even if they'd given the actor more to do there's nothing to say that he still wouldn't have quit. His face and name is known now, perhaps only staying a year to establish himself was his plan all along? Either way, for this viewer, it's not a huge loss. I'd have been much more upset if Linda, Mick, Shirley or Mick had quit! I won't give a stuff if Lee leaves either.

    But NO ONE is irreplaceable on a soap. There's always someone who can take their place, sometimes quite literally if they're re-cast!
    MrJames wrote: »
    Absolutely not, no way. Rebuilding and reshaping EastEnders is a hard task and dropping the ball in the middle of that task would just be silly.

    Agreed.
    dan2008 wrote: »
    The Main problems with EastEnders at the moment in my opinion are:

    *Lack of a Bitch which is something we have missed since Janine left
    *Lack of a matriarch which has been missing since Peggy & Pet left
    *Lack of a proper comedy Duo like Peggy and Pat
    *Storylines being dropped at the drop of an hat
    How is Patrick after his stoke? Is Denise really an alcoholic?
    *Is Phil back to his old self after the Shooting?
    *Where is Aleks wife? Why hasn't she came back to the Square?


    Kat and Alfie plot dropped and then re started
    The Cotton storylines stop and start like no tomorrow.

    The Plots and scripts have so many holes in that you can drive 3 London busses side by side though.

    There is a lack of storylines that keep you hooked and want more but that's down to the whole pacing.

    Characters you don't see for weeks on end and then pop up and do very little.

    Got to agree with you here, there's no subtlety at all. Just storylines stopped and started with characters disappearing for weeks at a time leaving you scratching your had wondering what's happened! For example: Kat and Aflie and the squatting - I wanted to see Alfie crapping himself when someone knocked at the door etc but we've had nothing until this week when they're chucked on the street. Are we meant to believe that no one has called at that house since they moved in? That is ridiculous. I also want to know how Patrick is? I want to see if Denise is struggling - has she really turned to drink to cope? Why can't we have small scenes between the other big storyline(s), they don't have to be huge meaningful scenes, just small ones to keep the story going in a more natural manner?
    bass55 wrote: »
    No way should DTC step down. The guy has spent the last year rebuilding the show from the dire mess it became under Kirkwood and Newman. Its obvious that DTC has worked his arse off to get the show back to where it is now, and he is the first producer in over a decade to have a clear passion and respect for the ethos and history of EastEnders. He really 'gets' the show unlike many of his predecessors.

    EastEnders is not amazing, and it will never reach the creative peaks it hit during the show's first twenty years, but I'd argue at the moment its the best its been for many, many years. It really has a lot going for it: a great cast, and several interesting storylines going on at once. It makes no sense to get rid of the man responsible for that success after barely a year in the job.

    I've got to agree with this. Yes there are faults but compared to how it was under Newman (snakegate and tunagate anyone?) the show has come on in massive leaps and bounds. Like others have also said I don't think there's ever going to be an EP nowadays who keeps everyone happy. To me this one is doing much better than his predecessors. He might not be perfect, but he's on the right tracks.
  • Ell_RenEll_Ren Posts: 9,911
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    No
    vald wrote: »
    Doesn't every character split fans opinions....Phil, Ronnie, Stacey, Kat, Sharon, even Dot.

    Agreed.:)
  • 0...00...0 Posts: 21,111
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    Don't know
    Harlowe wrote: »
    Sarah Phelps, great writer, can't wait for Casual Vacancy.

    Ditto. :D
  • Louise_HartLouise_Hart Posts: 3,421
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    No
    No way what if we get another Kirkwood?:o:o:o
  • patrick95patrick95 Posts: 416
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    No
    EasEnders is in a far better position than it was last year - I don't think many people at disputing that so comparisons regarding quality are meaningless. The discussin is about EastEnders NOW under DTC.

    He's done some impressive work - particularly between December and May- and the use of returning characters for small storyline roles is a move I find really refreshing. The main issue with with EE at the moment I feel is that all the big story lines we've seen throughout this year just....fizzle out. We get some cracking episodes and the story really seems like it's going somewhere until we get a rushed and poorly conceived conclusion followed by the abscene of main characters for weeks on end!

    If we actually take a look at the stories which have played out this year -

    LUCY BEALE MURDER - the early episodes surrounding Ian's grief were absolutely amazing and the primary stages of that storyline deserve all the praise it got (perhaps the rather clumsily placed 'cocaine reveal' could have been better handled, or actually shown on screen). But then the storyline progresses and the writers find themselves stuck because they don't really know how to bulk up the storyline when the actual reveal is a solid 9 months away! Jakes imprisonement and exit were massive damp squibs which served no purpose and when Jay got hauled in by the police over his whereabouts nobody really seemed to care?! It's promising little side story's like this which help to give the overall arc more oomph but they never really deliver (same with the Lauren stalking storyline which was all too brief and rather weak)

    CAROLS CANCER-fantastically played by Lindsay Coulson who really is due some awards for her portal but it didn't really go anywhere did it? Carol got cancer...we saw Carol sometimes tired and ill....the whole fiasco with dumping the love of her life for no actual reason...and then it kind of just ended with the all clear. I'm not saying that Carol had to die or anything like that but some actual immediate aftermath with her struggling to get back to normal and live without her breasts would have been really interesting to watch. In all fairness I suspect that Patsy Palmers exit probably changed things around but Bianca wouldn't have been THAT essiental to the aftermath storyline surely? Especially with Sonia there to fill her role.

    CHARLIE COTTON- I don't really know where to begin with this whole confusing mess and I get the feeling the writers have a backed themselves into a corner with all the secrets and twists- but will say two things: 1.) The Ronnie/ Charlie coupling is inspired 2.) is nobody else baffled that Dot and Yvonne seems to be treating back from the dead /made their lives hell/ ready to fleece them out of thousands of pounds Nick Cotton as some sort of cheeky choppy?! The scene where he was demanding **** and they all responded with a roll of the eyes as if he was a naughty schoolboy just perplexed me. His whole return has been so underwhelming because it's lacked any real drama from the family's reaction...

    SHARON/PHIL/SHIRLEY- this one really gets my goat because they made such a big deal of Sharon getting her ultimate revenge- a genuinely interesting and satisfying storyline- only for them to wows out and play the "fallen back in love" card. The whole wedding day shooting story and aftermath was so farcical that I don't know where to begin - the idea that they somehow think they can bring Shirley back from this/ the idea that Sharon would even think to cover for her/ the idea that Sharon would stay with Phil and play happy families after discovering his affair/the idea that the police wouldn't go inquire further and thus discover the truth..the fact Shirley's family don't seem overly concerned that a depressed alcoholic who believes she may have killed someone has gone missing and not been heard from since......blah a blah blah ...they really took there eye of the ball with that one.

    I could go on (Patricks stroke which hasn't really been seen much of Alfie/Kat and the inexplicable squatting) but I don't want to come across so overly negative - EastEnders is decent at the moment but where ever the opportunity presents itself to become truly truly great again it just shoots itself in the foot and it's back to the drawing board. It's frustrating to watch because your so aware of how hard everyone is trying.

    But - in a word (!) - no I don't think he should. I definatley think he did himself no favors in terms of raising high expectations that frankly weren't met but to step down after just a year? Doesn't work for me.
  • Louise_HartLouise_Hart Posts: 3,421
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    No
    bass55 wrote: »
    Errr no. Why should he step down? The guy has spent the last year rebuilding the show from the dire mess it became under Kirkwood and Newman. Its obvious that DTC has worked his arse off to get the show back to where it is now, and he is the first producer in over a decade to have a clear passion and respect for the ethos and history of EastEnders. He really 'gets' the show unlike many of his predecessors.

    EastEnders is not amazing, and it will never reach the creative peaks it hit during the show's first twenty years, but I'd argue at the moment its the best its been for many, many years. It really has a lot going for it: a great cast, and several interesting storylines going on at once. It makes no sense to get rid of the man responsible for that success after barely a year in the job.

    Agree, Its not got its buzz back yet, but it has improved a lot. but the I haven't felt the spark since about 2009.
  • HarloweHarlowe Posts: 20,005
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    dan2008 wrote: »
    Perhaps Sarah could take job as EP ?
    Great writer that Understands EastEnders very well. We can't have much worse than Kirkwood surely?

    If she was available and willing, I would welcome her very much, but she seems pretty content with her role as a writer though, EP is a big job to take on.

    I don't think DTC is worse then BK, BK was once a capable EP on HO but his just lost the plot big time, but that is for another thread :D

    I know DTC is not perfect but I think he still has a bit of steam left in him and enough enthusiasm for the show to give it what it needs, perhaps the Carters is what is concerning a lot of people and the obsession with them needs to be tone down and it seems to be a big concern among a lot of other issues, I dunno I just don't think it's the right time just yet for him to go, his only been on a year, he should be given the three years that is the norm at least to prove himself.
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