The west is very advanced and will play these suckers. I do not believe half of what I am told by our governments. When they say this will take a long time and it will be a very protracted war this reminds me of post 9/11 and the "war on terror". Do you really think ISIS is a serious threat? I don't and I remember the following rhetoric from the war with the IRA:
Gov
"We will never deal with terrorists" and "We do not talk to terrorists" This was said numerous times over years by Thatcher, Major and the foreign secretary as well as many times by the secretary for northern Ireland Tom King and later Mo Mowlam(RIP)
Fact
In 1974 and 1975 a Foreign Office diplomat, James Allen and a senior MI6 man, Michael Oatley regularly met IRA leaders there during what became known as "the Feakle ceasefire". As documented by Peter Taylor in his series of brilliant documentaries the Government had people in the Army Council actually directing the IRA war.
Gov
We will pursue these murderers and they will be brought to justice. Words like this were often on news items in the press and on telly. Strong condemnation and promises to hunt them down to the ends of the Earth! There will be no hiding place for them!
Fact
The murderers did not have to run as the Government let them all go for the Good Friday agreement. In fact some of the mass murderers now work for the crown as ministers in the new northern Ireland. To the disgust of true "freedom Fighters" like Brendan Hughes the cause was betrayed by turncoats at the top. Mairead Farrell, Sean Savage and Daniel McCann all died in an SAS massacre in Gibraltar which was orchestrated from London by intelligence received from the IRA army council.
There are many instances where the public are played by the ruling classes and this war is no different. I suspect some of the "Jihadists" volunteering to fight for ISIS are in fact MI6 agents or at least handled by them. This can be for monetary reasons or threats to their families. These events in my opinion are orchestrated and actually prolonged training exercises for our forces. We and the Americans learned a hell of a lot from the SS and the Gestapo who were advanced for their time and showed the world how to conduct intelligence gathering and play the opposite side. The Gestapo undercover agents would shoot their own people and definitely orchestrate attacks on the German Wehrmacht to prove cover. The CIA were in close contact with Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden for most of their careers.
More recent history:
Did Kuwait really steal Iraqi oil? Yes by using slant drilling commonly called directional drilling today. The oils wells in Iraq are so close to the Kuwait border it was not hard for Red Adair and co from Texas to show the Kuwait oil industry how to drill for it. Then the CIA told Saddam about it (pretending to be his friend) saying "look they are nicking your oil"! That is why Saddam invaded Kuwait as he was incensed with rage. He was more surprised when the Americans cried to the UN calling Saddam a despot and a danger to the middle east. Saddam up to then had the support of the CIA
WHy do people get so worried about "why are we getting involved again oh noooo".
Have people not been paying attention? We are going to be using drones and air strikes. Now I don't believe ISIS have sophisticated anti air weapons able to take down Euro Fighter Jets or autonomous drones...so why the worry or anger we are getting involved? There is no cost for us to this action in terms of spilled blood on the Western side.
WHy do people get so worried about "why are we getting involved again oh noooo".
Have people not been paying attention? We are going to be using drones and air strikes. Now I don't believe ISIS have sophisticated anti air weapons able to take down Euro Fighter Jets or autonomous drones...so why the worry or anger we are getting involved? There is no cost for us to this action in terms of spilled blood on the Western side.
It is important that ISIS is not able to take any Western soldiers hostage. Air strikes is the best way to avoid this and keep our armies safe.
The main worry is that ISIS are making USD 3 million profit a day (from human trafficking, selling oil etc.). Let's just hope no one is foolish enough to sell them any decent weapons.
It's a little disingenuous to use examples of how we dealt with the IRA to suggest we're being hypocritical.
The IRA were, at least, people from a similar society to our own and, as a result, had similar principles.
They were people we could, literally, "understand", even if we didn't agree with their motives, so it was possible to manage the situation to some extent.
These animals are barely what we'd consider human so it's unrealistic to assume that we can employ similar strategies in our dealings with them.
Refusing to negotiate is a authoritative soundbite but why should it be ruled out if negotiation could have a chance of resulting in peace? I think the West has nothing to lose by offering ISIS a deal where we would stop all foreign military interference, we'd stop launching drone strikes against civilians, we would stop installing puppet governments that serve our interests. In return we would expect IS to stop killing any of our people. The worst they could do is refuse that deal then you still have the ability to use the military options.
And hw would that deal protect non-Muslims in the area the al-Qaeda Seperatists in Iraq and Syria control?
We shouldn't give in to terrorists. We should fight them until they are defeated.
The only thing that makes the al-Qaeda Separatists in Iraq and Syria superior to us is they're prepared to fight for what they believe in. Thjat makes them better than everybody who opposes us taking any action against them.
Refusing to negotiate is a authoritative soundbite but why should it be ruled out if negotiation could have a chance of resulting in peace?
In theory I agree with you - diplomacy is preferable to violence - but if their mandate is the annihilation of western 'decadence' then it doesn't sound like much of an option.
It's a little disingenuous to use examples of how we dealt with the IRA to suggest we're being hypocritical.
The IRA were, at least, people from a similar society to our own and, as a result, had similar principles.
They were people we could, literally, "understand", even if we didn't agree with their motives, so it was possible to manage the situation to some extent.
These animals are barely what we'd consider human so it's unrealistic to assume that we can employ similar strategies in our dealings with them.
WHy do people get so worried about "why are we getting involved again oh noooo".
Have people not been paying attention? We are going to be using drones and air strikes. Now I don't believe ISIS have sophisticated anti air weapons able to take down Euro Fighter Jets or autonomous drones...so why the worry or anger we are getting involved? There is no cost for us to this action in terms of spilled blood on the Western side.
Nobody needs 'sophisticated' weaponry to take down a Euro fighter plane. What gives you that idea?
In 1999 Serbian Forces shot down a F-117 Stealth plane using antiquated Russian Radar equipment they had modified themselves. Remember, this was a plane which back then was considered 'invisible' to any Radar system.....but obviously it wasn't as 'invisible' or 'invincible' as the Yanks thought.
It's the only F-117 which ever got shot down....but it's a huge mistake to believe you need 'sophisticated' weaponry to achieve it as Serbia proved.
In what way has America been funding IS? Are you saying they are trading with them?
IS have oil revenue pouring in at $3m a day from oil fields in both Syria and Iraq. Banks robbed of millions in Mosul, looting of antiques which have been sold off, not to mention the ransoms paid out by France and Spain which nobody knows what sums were involved.
Do you really believe any group of paramilitaries could get near an Iraqi oil field without a bullet to the head? American forces never left Iraq and they certainly aren't going to leave the country's number one resource unprotected.
A couple of months ago there was no ISIS. Where did they get the money to buy the weapons and train their members to the standard required to rob banks and steal whole oil fields?
Your naivety is touching. Reminds me of a time (many moons ago) when I still believed in Santa Claus.
You're probably too young to remember the extended 1960s-1970s football match that ended:
Vietnam 1
America 0.
Yet even the Viet Cong when it stopped fighting a guerrilla war and faced America as a standard army (after the Tet Offensive IIRC) it actually started losing - trouble was the political situation back in the US was so bad they had to leave anyway.
If ISIS face the west in a set piece war rather than a guerrilla war they are not going to come out of it well.
Do you really believe any group of paramilitaries could get near an Iraqi oil field without a bullet to the head? American forces never left Iraq and they certainly aren't going to leave the country's number one resource unprotected.
The US began withdrawing it's troops from Iraq as far back as 2009 and finally completed two years later.
A couple of months ago there was no ISIS. Where did they get the money to buy the weapons and train their members to the standard required to rob banks and steal whole oil fields?
Explained in the previous post which you obviously cannot comprehend.
The west is very advanced and will play these suckers. I do not believe half of what I am told by our governments. When they say this will take a long time and it will be a very protracted war this reminds me of post 9/11 and the "war on terror". Do you really think ISIS is a serious threat? I don't and I remember the following rhetoric from the war with the IRA:
Gov
"We will never deal with terrorists" and "We do not talk to terrorists" This was said numerous times over years by Thatcher, Major and the foreign secretary as well as many times by the secretary for northern Ireland Tom King and later Mo Mowlam(RIP)
Fact
In 1974 and 1975 a Foreign Office diplomat, James Allen and a senior MI6 man, Michael Oatley regularly met IRA leaders there during what became known as "the Feakle ceasefire". As documented by Peter Taylor in his series of brilliant documentaries the Government had people in the Army Council actually directing the IRA war.
Gov
We will pursue these murderers and they will be brought to justice. Words like this were often on news items in the press and on telly. Strong condemnation and promises to hunt them down to the ends of the Earth! There will be no hiding place for them!
Fact
The murderers did not have to run as the Government let them all go for the Good Friday agreement. In fact some of the mass murderers now work for the crown as ministers in the new northern Ireland. To the disgust of true "freedom Fighters" like Brendan Hughes the cause was betrayed by turncoats at the top. Mairead Farrell, Sean Savage and Daniel McCann all died in an SAS massacre in Gibraltar which was orchestrated from London by intelligence received from the IRA army council.
There are many instances where the public are played by the ruling classes and this war is no different. I suspect some of the "Jihadists" volunteering to fight for ISIS are in fact MI6 agents or at least handled by them. This can be for monetary reasons or threats to their families. These events in my opinion are orchestrated and actually prolonged training exercises for our forces. We and the Americans learned a hell of a lot from the SS and the Gestapo who were advanced for their time and showed the world how to conduct intelligence gathering and play the opposite side. The Gestapo undercover agents would shoot their own people and definitely orchestrate attacks on the German Wehrmacht to prove cover. The CIA were in close contact with Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden for most of their careers.
More recent history:
Did Kuwait really steal Iraqi oil? Yes by using slant drilling commonly called directional drilling today. The oils wells in Iraq are so close to the Kuwait border it was not hard for Red Adair and co from Texas to show the Kuwait oil industry how to drill for it. Then the CIA told Saddam about it (pretending to be his friend) saying "look they are nicking your oil"! That is why Saddam invaded Kuwait as he was incensed with rage. He was more surprised when the Americans cried to the UN calling Saddam a despot and a danger to the middle east. Saddam up to then had the support of the CIA
So be very careful what you believe in the press
It's post like this that make the DS experience worthwhile.
It's a little disingenuous to use examples of how we dealt with the IRA to suggest we're being hypocritical.
The IRA were, at least, people from a similar society to our own and, as a result, had similar principles.
They were people we could, literally, "understand", even if we didn't agree with their motives, so it was possible to manage the situation to some extent.
These animals are barely what we'd consider human so it's unrealistic to assume that we can employ similar strategies in our dealings with them.
Revisionist history. The government banned Gerry Adams voice from appearing on any broadcast. Hotels and Motels had 'no Irish no Blacks' signs in their windows.
At that time no one understood the Irish troubles and neither did they want to.
A bit like what's happening in Iraq, Syria and Ukraine. The British public no longer wants to understand because they see it's their best interest not to.
Revisionist history. The government banned Gerry Adams voice from appearing on any broadcast. Hotels and Motels had 'no Irish no Blacks' signs in their windows.
At that time no one understood the Irish troubles and neither did they want to.
A bit like what's happening in Iraq, Syria and Ukraine. The British public no longer wants to understand because they see it's their best interest not to.
So how did the American's fund ISIS ? Did they send it by Paypal, wire transfer or just drop a few $100m from the sky in boxes.
How did the Senate move millions of dollars to the middle of Syria and how did IS pick it up ? I doubt they went to the nearest bank and used cash points.
It's fairly well known that Qatar is the major funding of terrorism in the area.
I don't believe in evil only wrong thinking and even then it's subjective.
To me their actions are shocking but to them they are justified.
You are most likely complicit in extreme acts of violence where the innocent have their heads cut off for your pleasure. What normalises that for you is species and the vast majority of society says it's fine but I don't adhere to that at all. Now before you start crying about comparing the two I am not ranking 'evils' as you would call it just showing you a wider context.
So who is correct?
I would say if your involved in acts of violence against any living being for the purpose of pleasure, conceptual (religion or any other train of thought) or reasons which benefit the perpetrator in some way at the expense of the victim then I would state that this is wrong and a moral outrage.
Yes go ahead and rank this stuff if it makes you sleep better at night as human beings are sooooo important. Yet weirdly remove bees from the planet and it would be an ecological disaster but remove all humans and every other species would benefit including the environment.
People are stupid and shit because they think they are center of the universe. You can only end IIS and other retards when people grow the **** up and stop leaving pegs on their washing line.
I agree with that bit. Humans can be very arrogant and self-centered at times.
A couple of months ago there was no ISIS. Where did they get the money to buy the weapons and train their members to the standard required to rob banks and steal whole oil fields?
That's strange - we must have been reading different newspapers and periodicals to you then; I've been reading/hearing about the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria for over a year now, particularly its long "internal civil war" inside Syria with the Al Nusra Front...which is why they crossed into Iraq in the first place, Al Nusra was squeezing them too hard in Syria.
They didn't buy weapons - they were predominantly in the west and south-west of Syria, and couldn't then get to the Turkish border crossings where it was possible to buy individual AK47s etc.; what they have they've taken off the Syrian Army, the Iraqi Army....and the Al Nusra Front!
As to where they got their training? How about fighting Assad's armiy for two years or more??? And it doesn't actually take that much training to "rob a bank" when you rack up with a T-55 and a gurt big loaded gun! Nor "steal whole oil fields" - what you do is line up the technicians, kill some and amazingly the rest are suddenly prepared to work for you...
ISIS is quite good at that...
Terry Allgold's summation of their military position is perfect...but he's missed out one thing ;-) No modern insurgency has worked without outside support....ISIS got it for two years from Iraq's Sunni population!...OR without somewhere to retreat to/rest up/recuperate. They got THAT by being able to cross over into Iraq for ages....NOW they'll get it by being able to cross back into Syria!
...as given Russia's warning about actions INSIDE Syria, it's going to be a LONG time before the U.S. is prepared to do anything about that...
Comments
Gov
"We will never deal with terrorists" and "We do not talk to terrorists" This was said numerous times over years by Thatcher, Major and the foreign secretary as well as many times by the secretary for northern Ireland Tom King and later Mo Mowlam(RIP)
Fact
In 1974 and 1975 a Foreign Office diplomat, James Allen and a senior MI6 man, Michael Oatley regularly met IRA leaders there during what became known as "the Feakle ceasefire". As documented by Peter Taylor in his series of brilliant documentaries the Government had people in the Army Council actually directing the IRA war.
Gov
We will pursue these murderers and they will be brought to justice. Words like this were often on news items in the press and on telly. Strong condemnation and promises to hunt them down to the ends of the Earth! There will be no hiding place for them!
Fact
The murderers did not have to run as the Government let them all go for the Good Friday agreement. In fact some of the mass murderers now work for the crown as ministers in the new northern Ireland. To the disgust of true "freedom Fighters" like Brendan Hughes the cause was betrayed by turncoats at the top. Mairead Farrell, Sean Savage and Daniel McCann all died in an SAS massacre in Gibraltar which was orchestrated from London by intelligence received from the IRA army council.
There are many instances where the public are played by the ruling classes and this war is no different. I suspect some of the "Jihadists" volunteering to fight for ISIS are in fact MI6 agents or at least handled by them. This can be for monetary reasons or threats to their families. These events in my opinion are orchestrated and actually prolonged training exercises for our forces. We and the Americans learned a hell of a lot from the SS and the Gestapo who were advanced for their time and showed the world how to conduct intelligence gathering and play the opposite side. The Gestapo undercover agents would shoot their own people and definitely orchestrate attacks on the German Wehrmacht to prove cover. The CIA were in close contact with Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden for most of their careers.
More recent history:
Did Kuwait really steal Iraqi oil? Yes by using slant drilling commonly called directional drilling today. The oils wells in Iraq are so close to the Kuwait border it was not hard for Red Adair and co from Texas to show the Kuwait oil industry how to drill for it. Then the CIA told Saddam about it (pretending to be his friend) saying "look they are nicking your oil"! That is why Saddam invaded Kuwait as he was incensed with rage. He was more surprised when the Americans cried to the UN calling Saddam a despot and a danger to the middle east. Saddam up to then had the support of the CIA
So be very careful what you believe in the press
Have people not been paying attention? We are going to be using drones and air strikes. Now I don't believe ISIS have sophisticated anti air weapons able to take down Euro Fighter Jets or autonomous drones...so why the worry or anger we are getting involved? There is no cost for us to this action in terms of spilled blood on the Western side.
It is important that ISIS is not able to take any Western soldiers hostage. Air strikes is the best way to avoid this and keep our armies safe.
The main worry is that ISIS are making USD 3 million profit a day (from human trafficking, selling oil etc.). Let's just hope no one is foolish enough to sell them any decent weapons.
There has to be a conspiracy theory or two though - it is compulsory the moment the governments do anything (or even if they decide to do nothing).
It's a little disingenuous to use examples of how we dealt with the IRA to suggest we're being hypocritical.
The IRA were, at least, people from a similar society to our own and, as a result, had similar principles.
They were people we could, literally, "understand", even if we didn't agree with their motives, so it was possible to manage the situation to some extent.
These animals are barely what we'd consider human so it's unrealistic to assume that we can employ similar strategies in our dealings with them.
We shouldn't give in to terrorists. We should fight them until they are defeated.
The only thing that makes the al-Qaeda Separatists in Iraq and Syria superior to us is they're prepared to fight for what they believe in. Thjat makes them better than everybody who opposes us taking any action against them.
In theory I agree with you - diplomacy is preferable to violence - but if their mandate is the annihilation of western 'decadence' then it doesn't sound like much of an option.
Mind you, we're still the ones bombing them.
You make a very valid point.
In 1999 Serbian Forces shot down a F-117 Stealth plane using antiquated Russian Radar equipment they had modified themselves. Remember, this was a plane which back then was considered 'invisible' to any Radar system.....but obviously it wasn't as 'invisible' or 'invincible' as the Yanks thought.
It's the only F-117 which ever got shot down....but it's a huge mistake to believe you need 'sophisticated' weaponry to achieve it as Serbia proved.
In this case however, it resulted in a remarkable friendship showing the total nonsense of war.
That's very good news. The rest of the world needs to show a strong united front and stand firm against this out and out lunacy.
You couldn't make 'him' up could you? .....despair smiley.
Do you really believe any group of paramilitaries could get near an Iraqi oil field without a bullet to the head? American forces never left Iraq and they certainly aren't going to leave the country's number one resource unprotected.
A couple of months ago there was no ISIS. Where did they get the money to buy the weapons and train their members to the standard required to rob banks and steal whole oil fields?
Your naivety is touching. Reminds me of a time (many moons ago) when I still believed in Santa Claus.
How is it a conspiracy theory if all the facts are right?
Yet even the Viet Cong when it stopped fighting a guerrilla war and faced America as a standard army (after the Tet Offensive IIRC) it actually started losing - trouble was the political situation back in the US was so bad they had to leave anyway.
If ISIS face the west in a set piece war rather than a guerrilla war they are not going to come out of it well.
Explained in the previous post which you obviously cannot comprehend.
Really.
Seems to me you've been reading too many Bond books and overdosing on Terminator movies.
It's post like this that make the DS experience worthwhile.
Thank you.
What of the permanent U.S. bases in Iraq?
You can't be so stupid to think there is no American military presence in Iraq?
Revisionist history. The government banned Gerry Adams voice from appearing on any broadcast. Hotels and Motels had 'no Irish no Blacks' signs in their windows.
At that time no one understood the Irish troubles and neither did they want to.
A bit like what's happening in Iraq, Syria and Ukraine. The British public no longer wants to understand because they see it's their best interest not to.
Pish.
Were you even born in the 1960's?
How did the Senate move millions of dollars to the middle of Syria and how did IS pick it up ? I doubt they went to the nearest bank and used cash points.
It's fairly well known that Qatar is the major funding of terrorism in the area.
I agree with that bit. Humans can be very arrogant and self-centered at times.
That's strange - we must have been reading different newspapers and periodicals to you then; I've been reading/hearing about the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria for over a year now, particularly its long "internal civil war" inside Syria with the Al Nusra Front...which is why they crossed into Iraq in the first place, Al Nusra was squeezing them too hard in Syria.
They didn't buy weapons - they were predominantly in the west and south-west of Syria, and couldn't then get to the Turkish border crossings where it was possible to buy individual AK47s etc.; what they have they've taken off the Syrian Army, the Iraqi Army....and the Al Nusra Front!
As to where they got their training? How about fighting Assad's armiy for two years or more??? And it doesn't actually take that much training to "rob a bank" when you rack up with a T-55 and a gurt big loaded gun! Nor "steal whole oil fields" - what you do is line up the technicians, kill some and amazingly the rest are suddenly prepared to work for you...
ISIS is quite good at that...
Terry Allgold's summation of their military position is perfect...but he's missed out one thing ;-) No modern insurgency has worked without outside support....ISIS got it for two years from Iraq's Sunni population!...OR without somewhere to retreat to/rest up/recuperate. They got THAT by being able to cross over into Iraq for ages....NOW they'll get it by being able to cross back into Syria!
...as given Russia's warning about actions INSIDE Syria, it's going to be a LONG time before the U.S. is prepared to do anything about that...