Miliband: Labour government will allow an In/Out referendum on EU membership...

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  • bass55bass55 Posts: 18,370
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    The tories are worried by his impact

    Quite the opposite, in fact. The Tories are laughing their heads off while Labour's opinion poll lead falls to 3 points.
  • joseph2joseph2 Posts: 231
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    David Tee wrote: »
    Appreciate the respect etc., but I'm sorry too - you're wrong. Maybe you're getting confused with the pledge of stopping the "top down reorganisations of the NHS".

    This is from the Coalition agreement (May 2010)



    Some people have taken this to mean that Cameron was pledging no changed to the NHS whatsoever. It's a particularly blinkered line to take as immediately following this point are 28 initiatives that the Coalition pledge to take regarding the NHS.

    What Cameron meant is best understood from his speech to Royal College of Surgeons in 2008.

    Well what is top down re-forming of the NHS if not full reform, if you do something to alter in a top down fashion, you alter everything.

    My Uncle is a Consultant and he certainly was taken in by that and he is still strongly againts the 'reforms' too, so much so his vote after decades is going elsewhere for the first time from the Conservative party alomg with all the others who believed David Cameron too.

    That is likely why for the last near 3 years the Conservatives have been solidly stuck in the lower 30s while Labour is in the higher 30s as to likely percentage of voting intention.
    I believe it will also be a factor too as to why the Conservatives will again, fail to get past between 36-37% in the 2015 election, something they haven't achieved for over 20 years now in 4 elections.
  • David TeeDavid Tee Posts: 22,833
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    joseph2 wrote: »
    Well what is top down re-forming of the NHS if not full reform, if you do something to alter in a top down fashion, you alter everything.

    Eh?

    First off, its, it's "re-organisation", not "reform". Second, designating something as "top-down" simply tells us which direction any orders are coming from. It tells us nothing bout the volume, or type, of change.

    Cameron was simply highlighting the levels of constant interference by previous government in the day to day activities of the NHS.
  • joseph2joseph2 Posts: 231
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    David Tee wrote: »
    Eh?

    First off, its, it's "re-organisation", not "reform". Second, designating something as "top-down" simply tells us which direction any orders are coming from. It tells us nothing bout the volume, or type, of change.

    Cameron was simply highlighting the levels of constant interference by previous government in the day to day activities of the NHS.

    Disagree I am afraid but sometimes that is the case from 2 differring outlooks..

    I call these reforms because that is what they are in reality, so much has been re-formed with new rulings and practicea thta have cost massive amounts of funds too.
    The only part of the NHS so far it would seem less affected by these reforms are in fact those at the very top of it anyway.

    The hands on care staff of Doctors and Nursing staff have all had to cope with massive change, some still don't fully understand the reforms either as yet.

    We will just have to agree to disagree but these are reforms and are seen as that by those who work in the NHS system too.
    Re-organisation or reform call it what you will but the fact is no one wanted them, no one expected them,even less so after David Cameron stating same in the 2010 election campaign.

    The one sure thing is, he will not be and rightly cannot be trusted with the NHS after doing this.
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