Wish he took Journey with him! :(

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  • MinkytheDogMinkytheDog Posts: 5,658
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    Jon_Jones wrote: »
    I thought that was the point: he did change the Dalek, but not for the better. Yes, he turned it against the other Daleks, but only because he showed it a higher form of hatred. I think this convinced him that he and Journey would be a very bad influence on each other.

    Excellent - especially that conclusion regarding Blue - hats off to you.
  • TheSilentFezTheSilentFez Posts: 11,103
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    Exactly
    Or his relationship with the Brigadier and all of UNIT

    Perhaps his many many years fighting a war on Tranzalore, surrounded by soldiers of the church has changed his attitude towards soldiers. Perhaps they remind him of his time stuck on Trenzalore.

    I'm not sure whether this is the case or not, but I think it would be a good explanation which also shows that all those years spent on Trenzalore in Time of the Doctor have affected him (like they should). After all, the Doctor spent more time on Trenzalore than he did fighting the Time War.
  • MinkytheDogMinkytheDog Posts: 5,658
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    Given what we've seen of Moff's style over the last few series - in particular, his habit of going back over an earlier scene to show that the Doctor's actions were never "off the cuff" or "accidental" - it would be reasonable to suggest that the "no soldiers" lines was simply a lie - he had a more specific reason for not wanting that specific person in the Tardis based on something he knew or deduced about her.

    Also in keeping with the developing new character for him to give a short, sharp "no soldiers" response rather than invent a long, techie sound excuse involving the universe collapsing if she stands near the console - which 10 and 11 would have done.
  • comedyfishcomedyfish Posts: 21,637
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    Also in keeping with the developing new character for him to give a short, sharp "no soldiers" response rather than invent a long, techie sound excuse involving the universe collapsing if she stands near the console - which 10 and 11 would have done.

    He could have just said "No" without explanation.

    That would be very hard - the way he did it was actually quite nice really
  • johnnysaucepnjohnnysaucepn Posts: 6,775
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    Jon_Jones wrote: »
    I thought that was the point: he did change the Dalek, but not for the better. Yes, he turned it against the other Daleks, but only because he showed it a higher form of hatred. I think this convinced him that he and Journey would be a very bad influence on each other.

    Yes, it was that he changed the Dalek, regardless of whether he managed to redeem the Dalek. It shook his worldview that a Dalek could change at all - he believed them to be completely inflexible. By contrast, he knows that human beings can change, and perhaps a few years down the line he might have made a different decision about Journey.

    Perhaps she would only replace her anger at the Daleks with anger at any other enemy she met, but he must know there's a chance for real change, and his distaste is colouring his view. No pun intended.
  • comedyfishcomedyfish Posts: 21,637
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    In terms of the Daleks never being able to change in the eyes of The Doctor there is a really good EDA on big finish - Dark Eyes. really recommended
  • MinkytheDogMinkytheDog Posts: 5,658
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    comedyfish wrote: »
    He could have just said "No" without explanation.

    That would be very hard - the way he did it was actually quite nice really

    Just saying "no" would leave her thinking he's rude - what he said was likely to have made her feel that SHE was wrong in some way - make her question her decision to be a soldier. It contained a personal criticism rather than a mere expression of his decision.

    Think about it this way...

    If you asked someone for a date, would you rather they said "no thank you" or "No - cos you're bald, you've got a big nose and you dress like a tramp"?

    And the ultimate "insult" the episode carried is well known - everyone waves the soldiers off to war but we ignore or actively hate the ones that come back. He insulted Blue (supposedly) for no other reason than her surviving. He honoured the soldier that died and rejected the one that lived.
  • Shawn_LunnShawn_Lunn Posts: 9,353
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    I would've liked her but thems the breaks I guess.
  • comedyfishcomedyfish Posts: 21,637
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    Just saying "no" would leave her thinking he's rude - what he said was likely to have made her feel that SHE was wrong in some way - make her question her decision to be a soldier. It contained a personal criticism rather than a mere expression of his decision.

    Think about it this way...

    If you asked someone for a date, would you rather they said "no thank you" or "No - cos you're bald, you've got a big nose and you dress like a tramp"?

    And the ultimate "insult" the episode carried is well known - everyone waves the soldiers off to war but we ignore or actively hate the ones that come back. He insulted Blue (supposedly) for no other reason than her surviving. He honoured the soldier that died and rejected the one that lived.
    yes, you're right on all those points. good post!
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