so we can conclude that those who bricked their Macs when they upgraded to Yosemite, because they had self upgraded the SSD, got exactly what Apple thought they deserved.
Linux is too much of a hassle. Nowhere NEAR enough companies are releasing Linux drivers for their hardware for Linux to be even a small threat to Microsoft, or maybe even Apple as well. I'm talking about home computers.
Linux is too much of a hassle. Nowhere NEAR enough companies are releasing Linux drivers for their hardware for Linux to be even a small threat to Microsoft, or maybe even Apple as well. I'm talking about home computers.
Have you actually tried an up-to-date version of Linux? No, neither had I until last week when, to my complete surprise, everything I threw at my newly installed LinuxLite desktop 'just worked' I'm not going to become an Linux evangelical but for straight-forward use, I'm much impressed.
Have you actually tried an up-to-date version of Linux? No, neither had I until last week when, to my complete surprise, everything I threw at my newly installed LinuxLite desktop 'just worked' I'm not going to become an Linux evangelical but for straight-forward use, I'm much impressed.
Too much command line stuff still required, too many distributions that you need to check if your software will work, printing is still a massive PITA.
Don't get me wrong, if you just want to do a bit of facebook, youtube and write the odd letter (but don't want to print it), then its not bad. But you might as well get a chromebook.
Linux is too much of a hassle. Nowhere NEAR enough companies are releasing Linux drivers for their hardware for Linux to be even a small threat to Microsoft, or maybe even Apple as well. I'm talking about home computers.
Linux is much less of a hassle than Windows(7). I know. I dual boot.
I've only recently come back to the wonderful world of Microsoft Windows 7 Professional. Professional? Must be some new definition of the word.
Only been using it about six months and didn't know enough to adjust the updates. It did one right in the middle of a game and wanted to reboot! I was shocked. Adjusted it to ask me first and the two since then have needed messing about with to get running again. It's probably about five years since a Linux update failed and, going back even further, I can't remember ever being unable to repair a broken Linux installation...
I can understand why people may get the impression that very little hardware is supported in Linux. It's because a lot of it isn't supported by the manufacturer, but by the efforts of the Linux developers. You'd be really hard pressed to find anything that isn't supported. I could go on about the wonders of the Linux kernel, I even saw some of its elegance while helping a developer get my favourite racing wheel working (years ago), but this is getting a bit long and OT already. Some (mainly GPU manufacturers) do provide their own (proprietary) drivers, which sometimes work better than the default ones, and it's quite easy to change to those.
So why do I use Windows? Games and Virtual Studio Technology (VST). My main game runs on Linux thanks to Wine/Crossover, but only about half the frame rate of the OS it's designed for. Also; pretty much zero support for gaming on triple screen for the foreseeable future.
c4rv said "command line stuff" Well let me tell you about command line stuff -
Seems to be a pretty standard feature across Linux distro's that you can interrupt the boot process before it gets anywhere near loading desktop and graphics etc. drivers, or even mounting much of the filesystem. You get choices like continue to boot, but choosing enable network gets you online and mounts all of the fs. Then you drop to a root prompt and with a bit of googling on your tablet you can fix anything! Or even start a secure shell server and let someone else do it from the comfort of their home. But you never need to use it these days.
The argument to use Linux/Apple in case Windows breaks down is silly.
Despite all the knocking of Windows that goes on, it will always be the big boy until a completely new gamechanger comes along (perhaps a holographic OS like you see in Agents of Shield).
Downside of being the big boy is that it covers a phenomenal range of systems and when updates come out, it is inevitable something will go wrong somewhere. MS would never be able to release an update ever again if they had to test every known combination of hardware and software.
The OP blames MS but there is a high chance that the problem is due to a an unexpected software interaction or a driver issue than a direct hardware issue.
So he should do some investigation eg check if there is malware or viruses on PC. Often turning of virus checker helps etc.
In worst case could try following
1. back up PC first.
2. Do not connect any external devices.
3. reset PC to as built condition is no apps installed (even 3rd party virus checkers etc).
4. Load updates - if this fails, may be a hardware issue but could try screen settings etc). However, god chance PC will accept updates.
5. Load virus checkers. If OK start loading apps etc.
6. Start loading apps testing as you go along etc.
Of course this takes time and effort to do but in many cases, I have found when something is not working, going back to original OS and reloading apps cures problem.
PCs are like cars, they require maintenance eg deleting crap, removing malware, tidying up registry etc. If not maintained, things will start to go wrong.
Rather than ranting unfairly about MS, I say to OP, why not tell us what has gone wrong, and many of the DS'rs will try and help solve problem.
Have you actually tried an up-to-date version of Linux? No, neither had I until last week when, to my complete surprise, everything I threw at my newly installed LinuxLite desktop 'just worked' I'm not going to become an Linux evangelical but for straight-forward use, I'm much impressed.
Yep. No Linux drivers were available on the sites of the companies that made my computer hardware that needs drivers. I've looked on other sites for curiosity as well.
Edit: It could be the command-line stuff that stops it from being a threat to Microsoft or Apple.
So I see the latest Windows Patch Tuesday Update causes machines to go into an unbreakable "reboot loop" if you install it. As per usual its Windows 7 machines that are the worst hit, no surprises as it seems to be MS policy now to intentionally destroy W7 to force people to upgrade (or should that be downgrade?) off it.
This is after the other updates we've enjoyed over the last year or so like the one that caused your system to S-L-Ooooooooooo-W down, or the one that knackered the fonts in Internet Explorer, or the one that caused graphics card drivers to fail, etc etc.
Oh and then the best ones are the ones that apparently introduce security problems. Which is nice.
You just think for gods sake sort it out Microsoft its getting beyond a joke now. I know a lot of these problems stem from them cutting down on their testing team to save money. Which for a company that makes the profits they do is diabolical.
I would recommend people buy a Mac instead...but Apple minus Steve Jobs seem to be losing the plot bit by Gigabit themselves these days too. That new MacBook with no conventional USB ports seems like a special act of genius, as their own engineer can tell us:
That explains why my Next door neighbours windows 7 machine was in a reboot loop. I had to reformat the drive and start again, not hard on their machine as there is nothing much on it. but still annoying as they had not touch it since I sorted it out a couple of weeks back and when they did, it went belly up.
Thanks MS for making me look like a lier saying that it worked
The problem with a lot of the discussion is that it's based on individual cases and the problems are certainly not universal.
I've only ever encountered a problem once with windows updates and that was the fault of Avast.
Others have had minor problems, some have had major ones. My view is that problems are as much to do with a particular PC's set up and/or software installed as it is with MS. If this were not the case then everyone would have the same problems at the same time.
Obviously it's just my view and I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.;-)
Yep. No Linux drivers were available on the sites of the companies that made my computer hardware that needs drivers. I've looked on other sites for curiosity as well.
Edit: It could be the command-line stuff that stops it from being a threat to Microsoft or Apple.
You either didn't read or didn't understand my post.
Being able to interrupt the Linux boot process and then Google on your tablet what to do sounds about right.
It's perhaps like rooting in the glove compartment for the handbook when you want to change gear.
Well if you can do it (or anything you're not familiar with) without reference to any instructions then go ahead. You don't even get a chance of booting a windows system at that low level.
The problem with a lot of the discussion is that it's based on individual cases and the problems are certainly not universal.
I've only ever encountered a problem once with windows updates and that was the fault of Avast.
Others have had minor problems, some have had major ones. My view is that problems are as much to do with a particular PC's set up and/or software installed as it is with MS. If this were not the case then everyone would have the same problems at the same time.
Obviously it's just my view and I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.;-)
I agree that a MS update may not muck up all the machines that is say using Windows 7, but it does happen too often.
I look after a few machines for different people, if they have a problem I will go and sort it out and over the last 10 years a lot of the problems have been MS updates, not all, but a lot. Like the reboot loop on my next door neighbours machine last night.
I have to admit, I have have had a couple of update problems on my own machine over the years, so not too bad really.
The problem is a lot of the time the best thing is to reformat and reinstall windows and hope it do not happen again. If you can get into the computer than it may be eaiser, but this reboot loop is a pain. I hope it don't do it again, I will pop back over later and see if it is still ok.
My glove compartment remark was just off the cuff and wasn't a criticism on having to look up how to do things. It's not possible to remember solutions in detail unless you do them regularly.
If you help others out or fix your own systems it's good to read up any problems that appear in threads, and Google, just to increase your own knowledge.
Or at least be aware of what to search for to find solutions.
While many want computers to do things, I enjoy tinkering under the hood and sharing knowledge or just get satisfaction from fixing someone's computer.
That's in the social sense of helping others. I don't mean finding Stack Overflow in a system.
I mean I know that person can't fix it themselves, can't afford to buy a new machine or take old one to repairer, doesn't have a spare machine so can't get online to pay bills, job hunt etc etc.
The above response is because you know that you've mistakenly quoted me earlier on but you don't want to admit it.
I'll try to explain. In your post 30 you said "Nowhere NEAR enough companies are releasing Linux drivers for their hardware for Linux to be even a small threat to Microsoft, or maybe even Apple as well. I'm talking about home computers"
To which I replied in post 33 "I can understand why people may get the impression that very little hardware is supported in Linux. It's because a lot of it isn't supported by the manufacturer, but by the efforts of the Linux developers. You'd be really hard pressed to find anything that isn't supported."
When you replied to Boneman1946's question "Have you actually tried an up-to-date version of Linux?" (which you bolded) with "Yep. No Linux drivers were available on the sites of the companies that made my computer hardware that needs drivers. I've looked on other sites for curiosity as well."
I got the impression you may have missed or not understood what I was saying, so just to try to make it clearer:
The part of Linux distros which is common to all, is the kernel. It's in constant development led by Linus himself. You get the whole thing as part of whatever distro you install along with a loadable driver module for just about every piece of hardware available. Which means (as Boneman found); you simply don't need to look anywhere for drivers as your hardware is most likely supported out-of-the-box. You don't usually have to do anything to enable it either. The system detects your stuff every time you boot up and loads kernel driver modules to suit. A side effect of which is you can plug your HD into any computer with the same architecture and it'll work. Even if it doesn't because the graphics hardware is different - it's pretty easy to fix...
If you like tinkering under the bonnet RobinOfLoxley - you should try it again. It's much more accessible than MS Windows and built on a robust (unix) foundation. Virtual Machines are a great way to have a look at what you get and the one I use works very well.
I'll try to explain. In your post 30 you said "Nowhere NEAR enough companies are releasing Linux drivers for their hardware for Linux to be even a small threat to Microsoft, or maybe even Apple as well. I'm talking about home computers"
To which I replied in post 33 "I can understand why people may get the impression that very little hardware is supported in Linux. It's because a lot of it isn't supported by the manufacturer, but by the efforts of the Linux developers. You'd be really hard pressed to find anything that isn't supported."
I didn't read post 33 because I didn't see that you had quoted me.
IE11 is next to unusable for me now, get error message when I try and open the ' more comments' link on YouTube, can't even comment as it 'bounces' back to the same page.
It crashes for no apparent reason, when it's not crashing for some long running script or some flash video. I get a grey exclamation mark on some YouTube videos. I have to wait to scroll the page and see what's on it which for something like The Huffington Post where it's packed with articles on the front page is a nightmare. With IE it will either crash or eventually burst into action by sending the page up and down several times at quite a high speed it makes me dizzy.
If I switch to Chrome it works fine, I know they are getting rid of it but how can they **** up so badly. My Chrome browser is on the same PC with all the same software and drivers so that old excuse of conflicting things doesn't hold water.
IE11 is next to unusable for me now, get error message when I try and open the ' more comments' link on YouTube, can't even comment as it 'bounces' back to the same page.
It crashes for no apparent reason, when it's not crashing for some long running script or some flash video. I get a grey exclamation mark on some YouTube videos. I have to wait to scroll the page and see what's on it which for something like The Huffington Post where it's packed with articles on the front page is a nightmare. With IE it will either crash or eventually burst into action by sending the page up and down several times at quite a high speed it makes me dizzy.
If I switch to Chrome it works fine, I know they are getting rid of it but how can they **** up so badly. My Chrome browser is on the same PC with all the same software and drivers so that old excuse of conflicting things doesn't hold water.
That's the problem, they haven't **** up. The problems you are having are not universal. IE is now one of the better browsers (I only use it occassionally). So the problem you are having may not be the fault of MS.
IE11 is next to unusable for me now, get error message when I try and open the ' more comments' link on YouTube, can't even comment as it 'bounces' back to the same page.
It crashes for no apparent reason, when it's not crashing for some long running script or some flash video. I get a grey exclamation mark on some YouTube videos. I have to wait to scroll the page and see what's on it which for something like The Huffington Post where it's packed with articles on the front page is a nightmare. With IE it will either crash or eventually burst into action by sending the page up and down several times at quite a high speed it makes me dizzy.
If I switch to Chrome it works fine, I know they are getting rid of it but how can they **** up so badly. My Chrome browser is on the same PC with all the same software and drivers so that old excuse of conflicting things doesn't hold water.
I use both Chrome and IE11, and I haven't seen the problems you describe. Have you tried resetting IE, or failing that reinstalling it? I'm guessing it is a bad add-on or it has been hijacked in some way.
Comments
so we can conclude that those who bricked their Macs when they upgraded to Yosemite, because they had self upgraded the SSD, got exactly what Apple thought they deserved.
Most likely. A lot of them anyway. I suspect a lot of Apple's customers would buy their products no matter what Apple did.
Linux is too much of a hassle. Nowhere NEAR enough companies are releasing Linux drivers for their hardware for Linux to be even a small threat to Microsoft, or maybe even Apple as well. I'm talking about home computers.
Have you actually tried an up-to-date version of Linux? No, neither had I until last week when, to my complete surprise, everything I threw at my newly installed LinuxLite desktop 'just worked'
Too much command line stuff still required, too many distributions that you need to check if your software will work, printing is still a massive PITA.
Don't get me wrong, if you just want to do a bit of facebook, youtube and write the odd letter (but don't want to print it), then its not bad. But you might as well get a chromebook.
I've only recently come back to the wonderful world of Microsoft Windows 7 Professional. Professional? Must be some new definition of the word.
Only been using it about six months and didn't know enough to adjust the updates. It did one right in the middle of a game and wanted to reboot! I was shocked. Adjusted it to ask me first and the two since then have needed messing about with to get running again. It's probably about five years since a Linux update failed and, going back even further, I can't remember ever being unable to repair a broken Linux installation...
I can understand why people may get the impression that very little hardware is supported in Linux. It's because a lot of it isn't supported by the manufacturer, but by the efforts of the Linux developers. You'd be really hard pressed to find anything that isn't supported. I could go on about the wonders of the Linux kernel, I even saw some of its elegance while helping a developer get my favourite racing wheel working (years ago), but this is getting a bit long and OT already. Some (mainly GPU manufacturers) do provide their own (proprietary) drivers, which sometimes work better than the default ones, and it's quite easy to change to those.
So why do I use Windows? Games and Virtual Studio Technology (VST). My main game runs on Linux thanks to Wine/Crossover, but only about half the frame rate of the OS it's designed for. Also; pretty much zero support for gaming on triple screen for the foreseeable future.
c4rv said "command line stuff" Well let me tell you about command line stuff -
Seems to be a pretty standard feature across Linux distro's that you can interrupt the boot process before it gets anywhere near loading desktop and graphics etc. drivers, or even mounting much of the filesystem. You get choices like continue to boot, but choosing enable network gets you online and mounts all of the fs. Then you drop to a root prompt and with a bit of googling on your tablet you can fix anything! Or even start a secure shell server and let someone else do it from the comfort of their home. But you never need to use it these days.
It really has a lot going for it...
Despite all the knocking of Windows that goes on, it will always be the big boy until a completely new gamechanger comes along (perhaps a holographic OS like you see in Agents of Shield).
Downside of being the big boy is that it covers a phenomenal range of systems and when updates come out, it is inevitable something will go wrong somewhere. MS would never be able to release an update ever again if they had to test every known combination of hardware and software.
The OP blames MS but there is a high chance that the problem is due to a an unexpected software interaction or a driver issue than a direct hardware issue.
So he should do some investigation eg check if there is malware or viruses on PC. Often turning of virus checker helps etc.
In worst case could try following
1. back up PC first.
2. Do not connect any external devices.
3. reset PC to as built condition is no apps installed (even 3rd party virus checkers etc).
4. Load updates - if this fails, may be a hardware issue but could try screen settings etc). However, god chance PC will accept updates.
5. Load virus checkers. If OK start loading apps etc.
6. Start loading apps testing as you go along etc.
Of course this takes time and effort to do but in many cases, I have found when something is not working, going back to original OS and reloading apps cures problem.
PCs are like cars, they require maintenance eg deleting crap, removing malware, tidying up registry etc. If not maintained, things will start to go wrong.
Rather than ranting unfairly about MS, I say to OP, why not tell us what has gone wrong, and many of the DS'rs will try and help solve problem.
Yep. No Linux drivers were available on the sites of the companies that made my computer hardware that needs drivers. I've looked on other sites for curiosity as well.
Edit: It could be the command-line stuff that stops it from being a threat to Microsoft or Apple.
It's perhaps like rooting in the glove compartment for the handbook when you want to change gear.
That explains why my Next door neighbours windows 7 machine was in a reboot loop. I had to reformat the drive and start again, not hard on their machine as there is nothing much on it. but still annoying as they had not touch it since I sorted it out a couple of weeks back and when they did, it went belly up.
Thanks MS for making me look like a lier saying that it worked
No, it's obviously to do with Apple and Linux.
I've only ever encountered a problem once with windows updates and that was the fault of Avast.
Others have had minor problems, some have had major ones. My view is that problems are as much to do with a particular PC's set up and/or software installed as it is with MS. If this were not the case then everyone would have the same problems at the same time.
Obviously it's just my view and I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.;-)
Well if you can do it (or anything you're not familiar with) without reference to any instructions then go ahead. You don't even get a chance of booting a windows system at that low level.
I agree that a MS update may not muck up all the machines that is say using Windows 7, but it does happen too often.
I look after a few machines for different people, if they have a problem I will go and sort it out and over the last 10 years a lot of the problems have been MS updates, not all, but a lot. Like the reboot loop on my next door neighbours machine last night.
I have to admit, I have have had a couple of update problems on my own machine over the years, so not too bad really.
The problem is a lot of the time the best thing is to reformat and reinstall windows and hope it do not happen again. If you can get into the computer than it may be eaiser, but this reboot loop is a pain. I hope it don't do it again, I will pop back over later and see if it is still ok.
If you help others out or fix your own systems it's good to read up any problems that appear in threads, and Google, just to increase your own knowledge.
Or at least be aware of what to search for to find solutions.
While many want computers to do things, I enjoy tinkering under the hood and sharing knowledge or just get satisfaction from fixing someone's computer.
That's in the social sense of helping others. I don't mean finding Stack Overflow in a system.
I mean I know that person can't fix it themselves, can't afford to buy a new machine or take old one to repairer, doesn't have a spare machine so can't get online to pay bills, job hunt etc etc.
Are you Boneman1946?
The above response is because you know that you've mistakenly quoted me earlier on but you don't want to admit it.
To which I replied in post 33 "I can understand why people may get the impression that very little hardware is supported in Linux. It's because a lot of it isn't supported by the manufacturer, but by the efforts of the Linux developers. You'd be really hard pressed to find anything that isn't supported."
When you replied to Boneman1946's question "Have you actually tried an up-to-date version of Linux?" (which you bolded) with "Yep. No Linux drivers were available on the sites of the companies that made my computer hardware that needs drivers. I've looked on other sites for curiosity as well."
I got the impression you may have missed or not understood what I was saying, so just to try to make it clearer:
The part of Linux distros which is common to all, is the kernel. It's in constant development led by Linus himself. You get the whole thing as part of whatever distro you install along with a loadable driver module for just about every piece of hardware available. Which means (as Boneman found); you simply don't need to look anywhere for drivers as your hardware is most likely supported out-of-the-box. You don't usually have to do anything to enable it either. The system detects your stuff every time you boot up and loads kernel driver modules to suit. A side effect of which is you can plug your HD into any computer with the same architecture and it'll work. Even if it doesn't because the graphics hardware is different - it's pretty easy to fix...
If you like tinkering under the bonnet RobinOfLoxley - you should try it again. It's much more accessible than MS Windows and built on a robust (unix) foundation. Virtual Machines are a great way to have a look at what you get and the one I use works very well.
I didn't read post 33 because I didn't see that you had quoted me.
It crashes for no apparent reason, when it's not crashing for some long running script or some flash video. I get a grey exclamation mark on some YouTube videos. I have to wait to scroll the page and see what's on it which for something like The Huffington Post where it's packed with articles on the front page is a nightmare. With IE it will either crash or eventually burst into action by sending the page up and down several times at quite a high speed it makes me dizzy.
If I switch to Chrome it works fine, I know they are getting rid of it but how can they **** up so badly. My Chrome browser is on the same PC with all the same software and drivers so that old excuse of conflicting things doesn't hold water.