Hi Vesna, I have no knowledge about anything in your post, therefore it makes no sense to me. I am sorry your friend is abused on the JJJAT although I must say it's a long time since I saw any abuse on there. Abuse is not good, I wish everyone would stop it.
It's happened twice and in the last 6 months. Just saying if anyone from the AT wants to throw stones they should look no farther than their own back yard.
As to people engaging in the forum, there is usually a lull between shows. Can't really judge the activity level until the new series starts. People leave and new people join, it's always in flux on here.
As to Josie getting stick, she's by far not the only HM to have gotten grief and she won't be the last. And it's not just HM's. Have you seen the comments about Jamie East? :eek: I still can't believe how someone as nice as Rachel Rice whose put not a foot in the wrong place since winning still gets a lot of negative discussion. The big difference is really the fanbase.
i am not a total ignoramus i am quite aware of that and stand by what i have said a lot of people join then very quickly find its not for them even out side the bb forums
Can you name the "a lot of people" outside the bb forum?
Assuming not, I think it's mostly the type of supporter I was referring to who, for one reason or another, aren't really suited to the rigours of forum life and T&C observance. DS do have to maintain certain standards as well.
You have absolutely no idea. DS (457K members) is much larger than our tiny little BB part of the universe.
And of course BB is in decline in terms of viewer numbers, so DS will no doubt reflect that trend.
In any event DS will have few qualms about the departure of a few Josie fans from the forum, some of whom weren't well suited to the rigours of T&C forum protection in the first place.
To be truthful, I don't think there is that much wrong with the T&C's. I do think sometimes the mods get a bit fed up with concerted alerting and remove swathes of posts because it's easier which can be frustrating but is also understandable.
i am not a total ignoramus i am quite aware of that and stand by what i have said a lot of people join then very quickly find its not for them even out side the bb forums
On the other hand DS is an open forum. People can try before they buy - or register :cool:. A day or so spent perusing the various boards would soon show if it's for you or not.
Can you name the "a lot of people" outside the bb forum?
Assuming not, I think it's mostly the type of supporter I was referring to who, for one reason or another, aren't really suited to the rigours of forum life and T&C observance. DS do have to maintain certain standards as well.
one assumes there argument can be backed up with numbers and facts - no thought not
A greater understanding between pro and anti-Josie supporters, or perhaps more accurately at least some recognition of the other's viewpoint......
With the hope of seeing more balanced discussion on MF when Josie's name is mentioned.
ps - really wish I liked her, cos it would be fun to defend a minority position like that, but I can't bring myself to play devil's advocate and post stuff I don't believe in. Just in case that would have formed part of any recommendation!
I don't think much can be done unless quite a few people on both sides want to increase mutual understanding. However, ...
I looked a bit at the JJJ AT (which hadn't done for a long time), just picking pages at random. There wasn't much about Josie. Instead, it seemed to be people who'd become forum friends and liked chatting with each other about various things in their own lives or whatever.
I think they should be left alone. People shouldn't go into the thread looking for things that might be alerted; they shouldn't copy posts out of the JJJ AT for discussion elsewhere; and they shouldn't make digs about the JJJ AT in other threads. The moderators should make it clear(er) that it's not only discussion of individual forum-members that's against the rules.
The mods should also be tougher about implied comments about Josie's fans (such as wondering how anyone could like her, or speculations about the sorts of people who'd be attracted to someone like that).
(Similarly, the JJJ AT shouldn't be used to comment about D Spy forum members or threads, including implied comments.)
In short, try to take the elements of provocation and recrimination out of it and see what happens.
I think that's a very interesting post - as was Kay's.
But this ^^^ once again causes me difficulty. Because while it acknowleges that Josie admitting to being violent against her boyfriends and selling a story about an ex forcing her to have an abortion caused controversies that upset her fans; it doesn't address - at all - why fans seem, for some unfathomable reason, to think that these things that she does shouldn't be criticised.
Of course they should be. I actually stopped posting for about two weeks after the abortion story. Prior to that, I'd always been considered to be in the funny corner of the court thread. I found huge amounts of humour in John James and Josie; I enjoyed mocking their magazine articles and physical awkwardness with each other.
But the abortion story turned my stomach - genuinely. How - still - is this more a discussion about how upset her fans got when this was being discussed than a discussion about how despicable a thing it was to do? Is it deflection? Or do her fans genuinely not get the logical black hole here?
You do of course have every right to criticise and to hold your own views. But there is also a view that opposes yours, and is equally valid for the person who holds it. And it is (hopefully) the purpose of a debating forum to consider both points of view, and any others that are presented to it.
I don't know if you disagree with abortion, or just with selling a story about it to a magazine. I respect your views completely, whatever they are, but I do not condemn the selling of this story. I have reservations about how it was presented, but I think the reaction against Josie was disproportionate........ herein lies the problem. You are totally convinced that Josie was wrong and you will not allow for another view. I can respect your view but am more tolerant of Josie's actions here. It wasn't the best way to present the story to the world, but it wasn't the despicable act you deem it to be. My concerns about it don't justify me ceasing to support her, although I fully understand that some people felt otherwise.
And what about the sexual partners issue - I think 11 is OK, some people threw up their hands in horror and said that Josie was immoral, she should be ashamed etc.
Josie seems to present us with issues which polarise opinion. Actually, I've found quite alot of openmindedness and tolerance amongst her supporters (the ones I've met) but less amongst the posters in the MF. I am not saying that you are all to be despised, just that many of you have taken up stances which criticise/condemn many Josie supporters. Not just Josie, but her supporters too.
To go back to your post patsylimerick: are her fans not getting the logical black hole? Well, there is implicit criticsm of them there, not of Josie. And what is this logical black hole? Your language in the rest of your post is quite emotive, rather than logical, so I'm not even sure that there is one.
Josie fans often say that they like her, but not everything she does. That strikes me as a pretty sensible point of view. It makes more sense to me than adopting rigid moral stances to issues which cry out for compassion, understanding, reconciliation, something more than just condemnation.
I think despised is a bit strong to be fair.
I dont despise people I actually know in real life - not about to start with perfect strangers who have a different opinion on a once RTV contestant.
I have no problem with termination of pregnancy. Im not keen on (anyone) selling that story for profit while putting the blame for the action on someone else.
I'm also of an age when numbers of sexual partners isn't an issue - but people knowing how many is. I suppose that's why Twitter is a closed book to me - the idea of next weeks washing getting a public airing is an anathema to me
Some people might say that this was the sort of meretricious twaddle that has been peddled by a certain sort of school for the last three or four decades ... I, of course, couldn't possibly comment ...
No idea !!! Give me a clue when you feel better I will try my hardest to use my obviously inferior intelligence to fathom it out
You do of course have every right to criticise and to hold your own views. But there is also a view that opposes yours, and is equally valid for the person who holds it. And it is (hopefully) the purpose of a debating forum to consider both points of view, and any others that are presented to it.
I don't know if you disagree with abortion, or just with selling a story about it to a magazine. I respect your views completely, whatever they are, but I do not condemn the selling of this story. I have reservations about how it was presented, but I think the reaction against Josie was disproportionate........ herein lies the problem. You are totally convinced that Josie was wrong and you will not allow for another view. I can respect your view but am more tolerant of Josie's actions here. It wasn't the best way to present the story to the world, but it wasn't the despicable act you deem it to be. My concerns about it don't justify me ceasing to support her, although I fully understand that some people felt otherwise.
And what about the sexual partners issue - I think 11 is OK, some people threw up their hands in horror and said that Josie was immoral, she should be ashamed etc.
Josie seems to present us with issues which polarise opinion. Actually, I've found quite alot of openmindedness and tolerance amongst her supporters (the ones I've met) but less amongst the posters in the MF. I am not saying that you are all to be despised, just that many of you have taken up stances which criticise/condemn many Josie supporters. Not just Josie, but her supporters too.
To go back to your post patsylimerick: are her fans not getting the logical black hole? Well, there is implicit criticsm of them there, not of Josie. And what is this logical black hole? Your language in the rest of your post is quite emotive, rather than logical, so I'm not even sure that there is one.
Josie fans often say that they like her, but not everything she does. That strikes me as a pretty sensible point of view. It makes more sense to me than adopting rigid moral stances to issues which cry out for compassion, understanding, reconciliation, something more than just condemnation.
No Circle Game, I'll tell you what the problem is; prior to a few minutes ago I'd never seen a Josie fan say what you just said. Rather than engaging in a conversation about the article they condemned the condemnation. That's not debate.
But now you have defended it and fair dues to you. THAT'S what the main forum is for.
I wouldn't have an abortion myself but support a woman's right to choose to have one. What I don't support is abdicating all responsibility for that decision by blaming an unnamed man who is given to right to reply. I thought that was godawful.
I will absolutely allow for other views. I routinely engage with people on General Discussion who have absolutely different views to me and find the whole thing very rewarding. The frustrating thing re JJJ is that there was no 'I think what she did was OK and here's why'. That I welcome - that I love.
What you get, for the most part, is nothing down here and up on the roof terrace - 'these people are so sad to be saying such awful things about such a lovely girl; I bet you they're all perfect.........not. Anyway, yes, Keeva was an evil bitch and Ben's the spawn of the devil and please don't mention pukey haw haw.........................'
I have no issue with 11 sexual partners. At her age I had already met the man who was going to be my husband and he certainly wasn't my first. I don't ever even recall that being discussed on the court thread.
What we discuss is her willingness to sell every aspect of her life, her vulgarity and her constant lies and contradictions - which are hilarious.
The logical black hole is that we are sometimes criticised - as you just did - for not being open to an opposite opinion.
However, we are never given the opposite opinion (or very rarely) we are condemned for our opinion. We are told that we are mean and bitter; the discussion becomes about the discussion rather than about Josie's actions.
edited to add: re your last par. In most cases I would agree that I love her but not everything that she does is a relatively OK position to take. I don't 'love' anyone I don't know personally and for some length of time. I'm a bit removed that way. However, her columns and TV appearances and twitter utterances, for me, would provide nothing at all to admire. That's from where I'm sitting.
You said that, not me ... it is getting a bit silly ... but my judgment is probably skewed by heat and pain right now ...
And tea. And whiskey
If it helps, many moons ago my primary school decided not to teach spelling, grammar or punctuation but concentrate on expression. As long as you expressed yourself, it was fine.
Until we hit 14/15 and our secondary school realised it had a class full of students about to take 'O' levels, who couldn't spell or punctuate. Expression wasn't considered all that, then. Many hours of extra tutoring took place.
You do of course have every right to criticise and to hold your own views. But there is also a view that opposes yours, and is equally valid for the person who holds it. And it is (hopefully) the purpose of a debating forum to consider both points of view, and any others that are presented to it.
I don't know if you disagree with abortion, or just with selling a story about it to a magazine. I respect your views completely, whatever they are, but I do not condemn the selling of this story. I have reservations about how it was presented, but I think the reaction against Josie was disproportionate........ herein lies the problem. You are totally convinced that Josie was wrong and you will not allow for another view. I can respect your view but am more tolerant of Josie's actions here. It wasn't the best way to present the story to the world, but it wasn't the despicable act you deem it to be. My concerns about it don't justify me ceasing to support her, although I fully understand that some people felt otherwise.
And what about the sexual partners issue - I think 11 is OK, some people threw up their hands in horror and said that Josie was immoral, she should be ashamed etc.
Josie seems to present us with issues which polarise opinion. Actually, I've found quite alot of openmindedness and tolerance amongst her supporters (the ones I've met) but less amongst the posters in the MF. I am not saying that you are all to be despised, just that many of you have taken up stances which criticise/condemn many Josie supporters. Not just Josie, but her supporters too.
To go back to your post patsylimerick: are her fans not getting the logical black hole? Well, there is implicit criticsm of them there, not of Josie. And what is this logical black hole? Your language in the rest of your post is quite emotive, rather than logical, so I'm not even sure that there is one.
Josie fans often say that they like her, but not everything she does. That strikes me as a pretty sensible point of view. It makes more sense to me than adopting rigid moral stances to issues which cry out for compassion, understanding, reconciliation, something more than just condemnation.
that is a very well thought out post and most i would agree with
I dont care what gloss is put on it.
The person I saw on that Livefeed how in gods name not only did she win but then went onto have the media eating out of her hand for many months after.
In a way her major downfall was not being able to drop John James from her repertoire,When ITV had to blank out her Rant on +1 that was her finished.
Then Richard Desmond finally pulled the plug on the only show that would still allow her semi coherent Mutterings,whilst lusting and slavering over Welsh Matt.Josie IMHO is the epitome of someone not taking the hint when the time is up.So then she had to dig deeper and deeper into her personal stories just to keep getting Press and Magazine coverage.
Any Hm's that can make money from doing BB good luck to them but josie pushed and pushed herself when quite frankly the edits she got had they decided to show the real Josie Gibson in full I doubt he would have even won.The way she treated caoimhe was shocking then that last day with Mario again shocking display.
You do of course have every right to criticise and to hold your own views. But there is also a view that opposes yours, and is equally valid for the person who holds it. And it is (hopefully) the purpose of a debating forum to consider both points of view, and any others that are presented to it.
I don't know if you disagree with abortion, or just with selling a story about it to a magazine. I respect your views completely, whatever they are, but I do not condemn the selling of this story. I have reservations about how it was presented, but I think the reaction against Josie was disproportionate........ herein lies the problem. You are totally convinced that Josie was wrong and you will not allow for another view. I can respect your view but am more tolerant of Josie's actions here. It wasn't the best way to present the story to the world, but it wasn't the despicable act you deem it to be. My concerns about it don't justify me ceasing to support her, although I fully understand that some people felt otherwise.
And what about the sexual partners issue - I think 11 is OK, some people threw up their hands in horror and said that Josie was immoral, she should be ashamed etc.
Josie seems to present us with issues which polarise opinion. Actually, I've found quite alot of openmindedness and tolerance amongst her supporters (the ones I've met) but less amongst the posters in the MF. I am not saying that you are all to be despised, just that many of you have taken up stances which criticise/condemn many Josie supporters. Not just Josie, but her supporters too.
To go back to your post patsylimerick: are her fans not getting the logical black hole? Well, there is implicit criticsm of them there, not of Josie. And what is this logical black hole? Your language in the rest of your post is quite emotive, rather than logical, so I'm not even sure that there is one.
Josie fans often say that they like her, but not everything she does. That strikes me as a pretty sensible point of view. It makes more sense to me than adopting rigid moral stances to issues which cry out for compassion, understanding, reconciliation, something more than just condemnation.
I suppose it depends on one's own moral code and whether they will break that to excuse it in other people. I believe abortion is a personal issue and not for any outsider to decide. The problem I had with the article is her blaming it on someone else. Not taking responsibility for what she did, bothered me. Other than that it's her choice to share a story like that or not. I would have more respect for her as a person if she would take responsibility for her own actions. I do also take into account that there are people vehemently against any abortion for any reason, I'm not that person. But I am the person who takes responsibility for what I say and what I do.
Funny you should mention tolerance and it's extraordinary that you would state it's offered by those involved in the AT thread. That's a laugh riot actually. Countless times those in your opinion tolerant people have actively tried to get the CT closed. If you don't like it don't read it. I don't find the AT thread interesting so I don't read it. Tolerant of Josie, for sure.. of others? No!
I also find it hilarious that you mention the # of sexual partners. For one thing I don't recall ever discussing that or hearing her say that. It certainly wasn't a topic in the CT. But it was a staunch JJJer that was posting rather condemning and mean things about Aaron "shaking up" and what a lowlife he was. Gave me a right laugh as this same poster said nothing about Josie "shacking up" with various men over the last decade. Even funnier for me because I share that opinion, well not in such militant tones a bit quieter in that I never did that because I don't agree with it.
I have moral codes that I live by. I don't expect others to but I can't admire someone who goes against what I think is right and true. And I can be petty about it or petty to some people which I don't care one bit about. I can not "overlook" things done by people because they are a "celebrity". At the moment I won't even watch anything with an actor whose admitted to being a Republican. Joan Rivers can suck it now I know she's one of them. The fact that Josie literally brags about causing harm to others, hasn't the slightest remorse either is a break in my moral code that I won't overlook for anyone, not just Josie.
It's funny that in this post you decry that "others" lump Josie fans together. Ironic in that you are doing the same and on both sides. You are speaking for the "Josie fans" and you are speaking about "the others". It's ok you can do that, most people do, I'm sure you can find me doing it. As a civilization we love our labels, our boxes, our categories.
You do of course have every right to criticise and to hold your own views. But there is also a view that opposes yours, and is equally valid for the person who holds it. And it is (hopefully) the purpose of a debating forum to consider both points of view, and any others that are presented to it.
...
Isn't condemning the condemnation (see below) also a view and valid for the person who holds it?
No Circle Game, I'll tell you what the problem is; prior to a few minutes ago I'd never seen a Josie fan say what you just said. Rather than engaging in a conversation about the article they condemned the condemnation. That's not debate.
...
It's not a debate on its own, but it can be part of a debate.
Debating the condemnation may be off topic for the BB forum, but that's different from it not being a debate.
But surely the forum isn't only for debate. It's described as a discussion forum, but people also use it to express their views, without intending that as the first step in a debate.
If it helps, many moons ago my primary school decided not to teach spelling, grammar or punctuation but concentrate on expression. As long as you expressed yourself, it was fine.
Until we hit 14/15 and our secondary school realised it had a class full of students about to take 'O' levels, who couldn't spell or punctuate. Expression wasn't considered all that, then. Many hours of extra tutoring took place.
(hope you feel better soon)
Yup ... it really is not fair on the pupils ... but there again I am in a fevered state and the teacher in me is being brought out ... my own son went through similar nonsense ... he was deaf for five years and did not speak until he had an operation ... coincidentally he also turned out to be dyslexic ... it was only when he ended up with some more orthodox teaching rather than the 'real books' method that he started to learn anything at all ... so you will excuse me if I do not go along with the 'expression is all' mentality ... that way we might all end up by grunting eloquently and have no recourse to words at all ... and that would truly sadden me ... words are powerful ... words are beautiful ... words tell the truth (if used correctly) ... now I shall go and collapse again ...
Isn't condemning the condemnation (see below) also a view and valid for the person who holds it?
It's not a debate on its own, but it can be part of a debate.
Debating the condemnation may be off topic for the BB forum, but that's different from it not being a debate.
But surely the forum isn't only for debate. It's described as a discussion forum, but people also use it to express their views, without intending that as the first step in a debate.
Hmm. The problem, however, for things like the abortion story when it was discussed on the court thread, was that the condemnation of the condemnation was not a part of the debate, it was the ONLY contribution coming from Josie's fans. That's not debate. That's deflection and, at the extreme, baiting.
Comments
As to people engaging in the forum, there is usually a lull between shows. Can't really judge the activity level until the new series starts. People leave and new people join, it's always in flux on here.
As to Josie getting stick, she's by far not the only HM to have gotten grief and she won't be the last. And it's not just HM's. Have you seen the comments about Jamie East? :eek: I still can't believe how someone as nice as Rachel Rice whose put not a foot in the wrong place since winning still gets a lot of negative discussion. The big difference is really the fanbase.
Can you name the "a lot of people" outside the bb forum?
Assuming not, I think it's mostly the type of supporter I was referring to who, for one reason or another, aren't really suited to the rigours of forum life and T&C observance. DS do have to maintain certain standards as well.
To be truthful, I don't think there is that much wrong with the T&C's. I do think sometimes the mods get a bit fed up with concerted alerting and remove swathes of posts because it's easier which can be frustrating but is also understandable.
On the other hand DS is an open forum. People can try before they buy - or register :cool:. A day or so spent perusing the various boards would soon show if it's for you or not.
one assumes there argument can be backed up with numbers and facts - no thought not
I don't think much can be done unless quite a few people on both sides want to increase mutual understanding. However, ...
I looked a bit at the JJJ AT (which hadn't done for a long time), just picking pages at random. There wasn't much about Josie. Instead, it seemed to be people who'd become forum friends and liked chatting with each other about various things in their own lives or whatever.
I think they should be left alone. People shouldn't go into the thread looking for things that might be alerted; they shouldn't copy posts out of the JJJ AT for discussion elsewhere; and they shouldn't make digs about the JJJ AT in other threads. The moderators should make it clear(er) that it's not only discussion of individual forum-members that's against the rules.
The mods should also be tougher about implied comments about Josie's fans (such as wondering how anyone could like her, or speculations about the sorts of people who'd be attracted to someone like that).
(Similarly, the JJJ AT shouldn't be used to comment about D Spy forum members or threads, including implied comments.)
In short, try to take the elements of provocation and recrimination out of it and see what happens.
You do of course have every right to criticise and to hold your own views. But there is also a view that opposes yours, and is equally valid for the person who holds it. And it is (hopefully) the purpose of a debating forum to consider both points of view, and any others that are presented to it.
I don't know if you disagree with abortion, or just with selling a story about it to a magazine. I respect your views completely, whatever they are, but I do not condemn the selling of this story. I have reservations about how it was presented, but I think the reaction against Josie was disproportionate........ herein lies the problem. You are totally convinced that Josie was wrong and you will not allow for another view. I can respect your view but am more tolerant of Josie's actions here. It wasn't the best way to present the story to the world, but it wasn't the despicable act you deem it to be. My concerns about it don't justify me ceasing to support her, although I fully understand that some people felt otherwise.
And what about the sexual partners issue - I think 11 is OK, some people threw up their hands in horror and said that Josie was immoral, she should be ashamed etc.
Josie seems to present us with issues which polarise opinion. Actually, I've found quite alot of openmindedness and tolerance amongst her supporters (the ones I've met) but less amongst the posters in the MF. I am not saying that you are all to be despised, just that many of you have taken up stances which criticise/condemn many Josie supporters. Not just Josie, but her supporters too.
To go back to your post patsylimerick: are her fans not getting the logical black hole? Well, there is implicit criticsm of them there, not of Josie. And what is this logical black hole? Your language in the rest of your post is quite emotive, rather than logical, so I'm not even sure that there is one.
Josie fans often say that they like her, but not everything she does. That strikes me as a pretty sensible point of view. It makes more sense to me than adopting rigid moral stances to issues which cry out for compassion, understanding, reconciliation, something more than just condemnation.
I dont despise people I actually know in real life - not about to start with perfect strangers who have a different opinion on a once RTV contestant.
I have no problem with termination of pregnancy. Im not keen on (anyone) selling that story for profit while putting the blame for the action on someone else.
I'm also of an age when numbers of sexual partners isn't an issue - but people knowing how many is
No Circle Game, I'll tell you what the problem is; prior to a few minutes ago I'd never seen a Josie fan say what you just said. Rather than engaging in a conversation about the article they condemned the condemnation. That's not debate.
But now you have defended it and fair dues to you. THAT'S what the main forum is for.
I wouldn't have an abortion myself but support a woman's right to choose to have one. What I don't support is abdicating all responsibility for that decision by blaming an unnamed man who is given to right to reply. I thought that was godawful.
I will absolutely allow for other views. I routinely engage with people on General Discussion who have absolutely different views to me and find the whole thing very rewarding. The frustrating thing re JJJ is that there was no 'I think what she did was OK and here's why'. That I welcome - that I love.
What you get, for the most part, is nothing down here and up on the roof terrace - 'these people are so sad to be saying such awful things about such a lovely girl; I bet you they're all perfect.........not. Anyway, yes, Keeva was an evil bitch and Ben's the spawn of the devil and please don't mention pukey haw haw.........................'
I have no issue with 11 sexual partners. At her age I had already met the man who was going to be my husband and he certainly wasn't my first. I don't ever even recall that being discussed on the court thread.
What we discuss is her willingness to sell every aspect of her life, her vulgarity and her constant lies and contradictions - which are hilarious.
The logical black hole is that we are sometimes criticised - as you just did - for not being open to an opposite opinion.
However, we are never given the opposite opinion (or very rarely) we are condemned for our opinion. We are told that we are mean and bitter; the discussion becomes about the discussion rather than about Josie's actions.
edited to add: re your last par. In most cases I would agree that I love her but not everything that she does is a relatively OK position to take. I don't 'love' anyone I don't know personally and for some length of time. I'm a bit removed that way. However, her columns and TV appearances and twitter utterances, for me, would provide nothing at all to admire. That's from where I'm sitting.
You said that, not me ... it is getting a bit silly ... but my judgment is probably skewed by heat and pain right now ...
And tea. And whiskey
If it helps, many moons ago my primary school decided not to teach spelling, grammar or punctuation but concentrate on expression. As long as you expressed yourself, it was fine.
Until we hit 14/15 and our secondary school realised it had a class full of students about to take 'O' levels, who couldn't spell or punctuate. Expression wasn't considered all that, then. Many hours of extra tutoring took place.
(hope you feel better soon)
that is a very well thought out post and most i would agree with
The person I saw on that Livefeed how in gods name not only did she win but then went onto have the media eating out of her hand for many months after.
In a way her major downfall was not being able to drop John James from her repertoire,When ITV had to blank out her Rant on +1 that was her finished.
Then Richard Desmond finally pulled the plug on the only show that would still allow her semi coherent Mutterings,whilst lusting and slavering over Welsh Matt.Josie IMHO is the epitome of someone not taking the hint when the time is up.So then she had to dig deeper and deeper into her personal stories just to keep getting Press and Magazine coverage.
Any Hm's that can make money from doing BB good luck to them but josie pushed and pushed herself when quite frankly the edits she got had they decided to show the real Josie Gibson in full I doubt he would have even won.The way she treated caoimhe was shocking then that last day with Mario again shocking display.
Funny you should mention tolerance and it's extraordinary that you would state it's offered by those involved in the AT thread. That's a laugh riot actually. Countless times those in your opinion tolerant people have actively tried to get the CT closed. If you don't like it don't read it. I don't find the AT thread interesting so I don't read it. Tolerant of Josie, for sure.. of others? No!
I also find it hilarious that you mention the # of sexual partners. For one thing I don't recall ever discussing that or hearing her say that. It certainly wasn't a topic in the CT. But it was a staunch JJJer that was posting rather condemning and mean things about Aaron "shaking up" and what a lowlife he was. Gave me a right laugh as this same poster said nothing about Josie "shacking up" with various men over the last decade. Even funnier for me because I share that opinion, well not in such militant tones a bit quieter in that I never did that because I don't agree with it.
I have moral codes that I live by. I don't expect others to but I can't admire someone who goes against what I think is right and true. And I can be petty about it or petty to some people which I don't care one bit about. I can not "overlook" things done by people because they are a "celebrity". At the moment I won't even watch anything with an actor whose admitted to being a Republican. Joan Rivers can suck it now I know she's one of them. The fact that Josie literally brags about causing harm to others, hasn't the slightest remorse either is a break in my moral code that I won't overlook for anyone, not just Josie.
It's funny that in this post you decry that "others" lump Josie fans together. Ironic in that you are doing the same and on both sides. You are speaking for the "Josie fans" and you are speaking about "the others". It's ok you can do that, most people do, I'm sure you can find me doing it. As a civilization we love our labels, our boxes, our categories.
It's not a debate on its own, but it can be part of a debate.
Debating the condemnation may be off topic for the BB forum, but that's different from it not being a debate.
But surely the forum isn't only for debate. It's described as a discussion forum, but people also use it to express their views, without intending that as the first step in a debate.
Yup ... it really is not fair on the pupils ... but there again I am in a fevered state and the teacher in me is being brought out ... my own son went through similar nonsense ... he was deaf for five years and did not speak until he had an operation ... coincidentally he also turned out to be dyslexic ... it was only when he ended up with some more orthodox teaching rather than the 'real books' method that he started to learn anything at all ... so you will excuse me if I do not go along with the 'expression is all' mentality ... that way we might all end up by grunting eloquently and have no recourse to words at all ... and that would truly sadden me ... words are powerful ... words are beautiful ... words tell the truth (if used correctly) ... now I shall go and collapse again ...
Hmm. The problem, however, for things like the abortion story when it was discussed on the court thread, was that the condemnation of the condemnation was not a part of the debate, it was the ONLY contribution coming from Josie's fans. That's not debate. That's deflection and, at the extreme, baiting.