BIB: Same. I'm really worried that this sl will make me hate Syed (well, the writers for screwing him over but ykwim) and that I'll end up feeling Christian's better off without him but tonight I felt that Syed was totally sincere when he said he loved him. I still have no idea how he gets to the point next week where he can't say it but the fact he said it twice tonight (in 40 seconds of screentime :mad:) suggests that whatever his reason for not saying it, it's certainly not cos he doesn't feel it.
As for Christian, it's heartbreaking to see him so broken and defeated and so ironic that he's now doing what Syed did, lying and hiding things, which is what got them into this mess in the first place It's understandable to an extent, he's scared to confront Syed cos he thinks Syed will confirm it and he'll have to accept it's over, but I don't like him lying about it being a homophobic attack. It's offensive to genuine victims, like crying rape, and I don't believe Christian would do that. Something else to put down to bad writing :rolleyes: I'm still dreading tomorrow and next week but have slightly more hope now that they won't completely destroy Chryed and Pete will have enough left to work with to give them the ending they deserve.
Having said all that, my optimistic mood tonight probably has less to do with what happened on screen than with the fact I went to see Tape again today with a couple of other Chryedians We stayed for the Q&A, which was really interesting and fun, and had a brief chat with Marc (and got a hug each from him ) on the stage floor, right by the "motel door" Seriously, if anyone hasn't been yet, you MUST!!! It's such a good play, well-written, engaging, thought-provoking, and really funny in parts too. The acting is superb and Marc has great chemistry with Darren Bransford. And if all that doesn't persuade you, maybe these three words will: Marc.Vest.Boxers :sleep::p
So pleased you and the other Chryedians had a brilliant time watching Tape It's great you could be there for the Q&A and each of you getting a hug from Marc
I thought Syed was 100% genuine in his love and concern for Christian too.
Hi, you're welcome! And yes, I thought so too. Especially the scene in the gym
I think it might be a case of Syed being incredulous that Christian wants him to say it maybe? So it's not that he can't say it but it's more that he won't say it because he thinks he's being tested. But, I dunno, just guessing
But I also agree that I don't like Christian lying, for any reason, because I just don't think he would; goes against his morals. But at the same time I can see that he's just snapped and is scared of losing everything.
I can understand him lying but it's saying it was a homophobic attack that I have a problem with. There was no need to take it that far, he could have just said he was mugged for his wallet or his phone. I just don't believe that having been the victim of two homophobic attacks in the past, he would make it up now, however low and desperate he's feeling. It's too far OOC for me, just my opinion
BIB eeeeeeeeee!! So happy for you and the others The Q&A must have been interesting, and yay for a Marc hug! I'm glad I at least got to see it when I was over for the con, I thought it was amazing. :cool:
So pleased you and the other Chryedians had a brilliant time watching Tape It's great you could be there for the Q&A and each of you getting a hug from Marc
I thought Syed was 100% genuine in his love and concern for Christian too.
Thanks everyone It was a brilliant afternoon and Marc is SO lovely. We didn't even ask for a hug, he just said hi (he recognised us from previous trips) and automatically moved in to give us a hug /dying of squee thinking about it
I can understand him lying but it's saying it was a homophobic attack that I have a problem with. There was no need to take it that far, he could have just said he was mugged for his wallet or his phone. I just don't believe that having been the victim of two homophobic attacks in the past, he would make it up now, however low and desperate he's feeling. It's too far OOC for me, just my opinion
Thanks everyone It was a brilliant afternoon and Marc is SO lovely. We didn't even ask for a hug, he just said hi (he recognised us from previous trips) and automatically moved in to give us a hug /dying of squee thinking about it
Thanks everyone It was a brilliant afternoon and Marc is SO lovely. We didn't even ask for a hug, he just said hi (he recognised us from previous trips) and automatically moved in to give us a hug /dying of squee thinking about it
I can understand him lying but it's saying it was a homophobic attack that I have a problem with. There was no need to take it that far, he could have just said he was mugged for his wallet or his phone. I just don't believe that having been the victim of two homophobic attacks in the past, he would make it up now, however low and desperate he's feeling. It's too far OOC for me, just my opinion : )
Thanks everyone : ) It was a brilliant afternoon and Marc is SO lovely. We didn't even ask for a hug, he just said hi (he recognised us from previous trips) and automatically moved in to give us a hug /dying of squee thinking about it : D
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I suppose I could see him using that excuse because it's happened to him before and thought it might raise less questions but...I dunno, I don't really understand why either
Aw, love that he hugged you because he recognised you Definitely worthy of squee
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I suppose I could see him using that excuse because it's happened to him before and thought it might raise less questions but...I dunno, I don't really understand why either
Aw, love that he hugged you because he recognised you Definitely worthy of squee
Aw I do hope the opportunity to see him live arises again soon
He was fine about it And we all admired your forwardness
Nah, but he's moving for hugs now;)
Feels safe now the worst of us didn't actually twang his pants or something:eek:
Not true, I think he's just got used to us all, and recognises us (JN) and YOU are all lovely:D
And so is he.
He laaaaaarved it. And he loves it. We are awesome.
Feels safe now the worst of us didn't actually twang his pants or something:eek:
Not true, I think he's just got used to us all, and recognises us (JN) and YOU are all lovely:D
And so is he.
He laaaaaarved it. And he loves it. We are awesome.
I would never do that :eek::sleep:
He is lovely, he asked me where in Ireland I was from and then asked me directly what Johnny was doing in Cafe de Paris when I wasn't even totally sure myself :eek::o:sleep:
He is lovely, he asked me where in Ireland I was from and then asked me directly what Johnny was doing in Cafe de Paris when I wasn't even totally sure myself :eek::o:sleep:
Feels safe now the worst of us didn't actually twang his pants or something:eek:
Not true, I think he's just got used to us all, and recognises us (JN) and YOU are all lovely:D
And so is he.
He laaaaaarved it. And he loves it. We are awesome.
BIB: LOL Chastity and restraint :sleep:
And yes, Marc is lovely, and so is Johnny and so are all you guys
Gotta get some sleep now, work in the morning :yawn: Night all xx
And this is exactly it. The execution has been dire and badly contrived all the way through. If they'd explored this properly last year, even breaking Chryed up for a while after BF with Christian pushing for adoption and Syed needing to re-assess whether this is what he really wants - maybe even exploring a relationship with someone else - then that could have been a brilliant storyline that could have ended with them getting back together and a stronger relationship in the long run. But to cram all of this stuff in in the last few weeks and not actually explore any of it properly has just resulted in a mess of a storyline.
This...
Like I've said before, I quite like the theme of the storyline - Syed doubting himself thanks to his failing business, Michael's harsh words and Danny's attraction to him - but I hate the way it's been done with him taking money from his family's business, leaving Tamwar to face the wrath of Zainab and being moody with Christian quite so blatantly. it's like TPTB wanted him to be that 'bad boy' again but the trouble is, he shouldn't be after falling in love with Christian because it made him a better person. He'd still have issues with Masood and Zainab but even this aspect of the storyline hasn't been done that well, seemingly dropped quite quickly.
And doing much of this after their wedding... :rolleyes:
I liked it, because, as you say - they still really love each other. But for the first time Christian doubts that.
And it's away from the 'gay' thing, and away from the central struggle.
It's about what Syed wants NOW, and it has been made realistic enough to understand.
I'm so glad that tonight I really felt Syed's worry and love for Christian.
And his declarations of that.
And I can understand why Christian doesn't believe him - he was so broken tonight - that insidious doubt of his importance to Syed. His exhaustion was particularly telling.
I did like what they did with Christian last night, I found his scene in the gym with Roxy and his later scene with Syed in the flat when he laughed bitterly quite 'moving' if that's the right word, I could understand how he was feeling at those points and why. I sympathised with Syed too because he does love Christian but his heads been all over the place lately.
It's just a shame that Syed's character has been destroyed in the process - thanks to the AB incidents and his sheer moodiness with Christian before the wedding - because the producers have almost taken Syed back rather than forwards, a bit like Kat, no intelligent writing needed.
And I do think a certain scene we're getting next week is very cruel - I'm dreading Syed telling Christian that he's allowed Amira to take Yasmin just moments after they've made up again, though if no one was willing to give him advice over the matter I can still sympathise.
Lucky things with all this hugging.
Last nights ep made me feel terribly sorry for both of them.
Agree it's wrong for Christian to blame a homophobic attack but glad Syed referred to it, rightly, as a hate crime.
A plot thing, I guess, takes it back to nasty bruise though and Syed standing up for what's right, making sure Christian gets justice.
Poor tired, broken Christian.
BIB: Same. I'm really worried that this sl will make me hate Syed (well, the writers for screwing him over but ykwim) and that I'll end up feeling Christian's better off without him but tonight I felt that Syed was totally sincere when he said he loved him. I still have no idea how he gets to the point next week where he can't say it but the fact he said it twice tonight (in 40 seconds of screentime :mad:) suggests that whatever his reason for not saying it, it's certainly not cos he doesn't feel it.
As for Christian, it's heartbreaking to see him so broken and defeated and so ironic that he's now doing what Syed did, lying and hiding things, which is what got them into this mess in the first place It's understandable to an extent, he's scared to confront Syed cos he thinks Syed will confirm it and he'll have to accept it's over, but I don't like him lying about it being a homophobic attack. It's offensive to genuine victims, like crying rape, and I don't believe Christian would do that. Something else to put down to bad writing :rolleyes: I'm still dreading tomorrow and next week but have slightly more hope now that they won't completely destroy Chryed and Pete will have enough left to work with to give them the ending they deserve.
It's horrible seeing Christian so broken, it's like the fight has gone out of him and he's lost his spark he's spent the last 3 years fighting for his love for Syed and now I think he's just tired and can't do it anymore I think it's important that it's Christian who walks away from their relationship because we need to see Syed do the fighting now, he's the one who needs to fight for their love and prove his love for Christian.
I could be wrong but I think this storyline is now more about Christian getting his happy ending than anything else. I think most people now think Christian deserves better than Syed, but I agree with what Johnny said, that they recognise that Syed is his true love. Christian will never find a love like Syed again so even though people think he deserves better, they still want him to be with Syed cos he makes him happy. So I think we'll see Christian become very depressed and really hit rock bottom over the next 2 weeks, and people will be really rooting for him to finally get his happy ending. Which he will do.
It's horrible seeing Christian so broken, it's like the fight has gone out of him and he's lost his spark he's spent the last 3 years fighting for his love for Syed and now I think he's just tired and can't do it anymore I think it's important that it's Christian who walks away from their relationship because we need to see Syed do the fighting now, he's the one who needs to fight for their love and prove his love for Christian.
I could be wrong but I think this storyline is now more about Christian getting his happy ending than anything else. I think most people now think Christian deserves better than Syed, but I agree with what Johnny said, that they recognise that Syed is his true love. Christian will never find a love like Syed again so even though people think he deserves better, they still want him to be with Syed cos he makes him happy. So I think we'll see Christian become very depressed and really hit rock bottom over the next 2 weeks, and people will be really rooting for him to finally get his happy ending. Which he will do.
bib 1 - Yep. I've felt like that for a long time now :sleep:
bib 2 - Really? He doesn't seem very happy to me
bib 3 - Can't really see how he'll get his happy ending now (Thanks EE :mad:) He either leaves alone or leaves with someone he knows will lie his way out of any crazy assed situation he gets into because that's apparently easier than admitting "I screwed up." If only Rita Simons name was on this list Chroxy could've gone off somewhere together, he'd probably be better off with a straight woman for a while - even a slightly bonkers one like Roxy :sleep:
Glad you had a brilliant time at Tape again JN:D I love Marc /not news:sleep:
Regarding Christian saying it was a homophobic attack, I can kind of see why he would say that. Lying because he is so broken, can't face it, and he feels his very foundations have turned out to be a lie. This makes the fact that it is out of character make sense, like others have said. But the actual homophobic bit, maybe he says it because he has been attacked in that way before, so it comes to mind and maybe is more believable. He's a big guy, would he be a realistic target for muggers? But also, I think it's the fact that a homophobic attack isn't purely physical, it's a personal, emotional, hateful attack on who he is and what he feels. Which is more in tune with what he is actually feeling at the moment, it blankets his emotional pain, his vulnerability, his sense of despair, loss of value, dignity, worth. A simple mugging would maybe not cover enough?
I'm off out for the day with kids, so I can't stay. But I've got a couple of rambles I'm gonna drop in first, and then run, sorry:o:p
Ok, first ramble, I know I've rambled a lot recently, so sorry if 'm annoying anyone, please feel free to skim/skip:p:o
Pride
I wanted to say something regarding pride and what it means for someone like Syed. Especially in light of the spoilers saying it is down to pride that he doesn't tell Christian he loves him. I really believe the manifestation of pride has completely different connotations for someone who has low esteem and sense of worth, like Syed has, and would be feeling particularly at that moment knowing that Christian had completely lost his faith in him.
For someone like Masood for example, pride is what it says on the can. It is taking pleasure in your achievements but it is also about an inflated sense of your own importance, arrogance, feeling you are superior, not wanting to admit you wrong, or appear weak, or give something of yourself to someone else if it means you will no longer feel you have the upper hand.
It is different for someone like Syed, because it comes from a different place. Syed has a fragile sense of worth, he doesn't feel superior, he often finds himself lacking in comparison to other people. He feels vulnerable, out of control often, suffers from guilt. But at the same time he is desperate to do good, to please people, to be valued, to find that sense of worth. To feel like this can often be contradictory, you feel like you always mess up, always get things wrong, hurt people, are pretty rubbish, but at the same time you know that there is more to you underneath, that you are not a bad person, that you try to do good, and you so want to be accepted, to be understood, to be loved. You want that validation of who you really are, and are fearful at the same time that you don't deserve it, that others will think you don't deserve it.
Pride comes into place as a protection of that fragile self and your place/sense of value in the world. Not because you feel superior or self-righteous, but the opposite. Syed was embarrassed to admit he owed Danny money, because he'd already messed up so much, felt so bad about it and himself already and he was scared to compound it, to himself and to Christian. I'm not excusing it here, or saying it was ok, because it wasn't, I'm just explaining.
Not being able to tell Christian he loves him, could again, be a protection of his fragile sense of self and worth. Christian was the one person who did see the real him underneath, saw that he wasn't a bad person, loved and valued him, but in a way that was real (unlike Zainab). He saw his flaws, but understood that his flaws were not the total sum of him (unlike Masood), he knew that there was something of value, something worthwhile, that Syed was deserving of love, that he loved deeply himself, that he was ultimately a good person despite his flaws. And Syed embraced that, he showed all of himself to Christian before and during the wedding. Gave himself and his love to Christian in the most symbolic way there is. He showed Christian his truth.
But then Christian took that away (from Syed's pov, obviously Syed's actions helped lead him to that). In Christian's eyes Syed was just his flaws after all, he really wasn't worth loving, didn't deserve it. And that devastates Syed, crushes him, from his two conflicting angles. He loses his validation, that he is worth loving, but at the same time he knows that what Christian believes to be true isn't. His fragile sense of worth, his heart which is true, is screaming out, please believe me, I need you to believe me, you are the only person who really knows me, please don't take that away. He needs Christian so much, loves him so completely, needs his love so much, needs their connection. He is becoming invisible again, Christian doesn't see him, doesn't believe in him, in his love, in his worth/value as a person.
He needs Christian so desperately because he loves him so much. He begs him to come back to him. But he can't tell him he loves him. Maybe he's scared, vulnerable, trying to protect himself and ironically, that love that he can't express. He gave all of himself and his love to Christian at the wedding and look what happened. Christian disbelieved the very heart of him, rejected the very essense of him as false, as part of his facade, as flawed, as wrong, as bad and unworthy. Syed's heart, his love, their love, their connection, something so fundamental and true for Syed. Maybe a shield has gone up again around his true self and he's struggling to remove it again. Maybe he fears he really isn't worthy of Christian's love or that Christian doesn't think he is, that Christian wishes he doesn't love him, but doesn't want to give up his dream of a family. Maybe he realises that his actions have led them to this point, that he has done this Maybe he fears that Christian's love has diminished, and that he's ruined that too.
He's probably also trying to keep some dignity intact, when he feels so little about himself, when Christian thought so little of him. This is where pride comes in, but it's not arrogance. It's foolish, stupid, stubborn and does Christian a disservice yes, but if played out like this I could sympathise and understand.
Of course the way the story has played out has made it completely understandable and realistic why Christian would not believe in Syed and his love, I totally sympathise with him too. But I also think that they can get through this and it will be believable, considering everything thing else they've had to go through. They both clearly love each other, want to be together, need each other, are good for each other, compliment each other, make each other a better, more well-rounded person, if they can just overcome these issues, which I believe they can
Danny said that Syed likes danger and taking risks, that he needs it, thrives on it.
Syed has spent a good deal of his life feeling that danger, the danger of being found out to be gay, of people discovering his true identity. He kept it hidden for so long, kept himself locked inside, that he didn't even know who he was or what he wanted. He filled that chasm, that doubt, fear and guilt, papered over the darkness, the danger, with the image, the reflection of what his parents wanted him to be, what was expected of him. But that image itself was fractious, because of the distorted and contradictory view his parents had of him and how they treated him. His mother putting him on a pedestal, with unrealistic expectations, placing all her hopes, dreams and superficial wants and desires for herself, her family, and their place, projectory and sense of worth/importance in the community on his shoulders. His father resenting him, disappointed in how Syed's existance affected him, their family from the day he was born. Knowing Syed could never live up to Zainab's expectations, resenting her devotion and delusion. Masood battling in the face of that delusion, expecting, wanting Syed to fall at every opportunity, almost like it was a validation of his own position in the family.
Battling these two extremes, plus hiding his dark and dangerous secret, coupled with his personality, wanting to please, he finds himself taking risks. In some ways his entire being was a risk, every day, every thought, every feeling was a risk. Danger and risk were a part of his very existance. Almost a habit, but something he couldn't escape from, couldn't see a way out of.
It was out of his control. In trying to get some control back, he takes even more risks, risks with his family, with money.
He embraced the risk taking, in a reckless, desperate way. An illusion he was in control, an attempt to feel something, a thrill, anything other than numb, locked inside, desperate and lonely. There was a hope in risk taking, a chance, a gamble, that things could be ok, that he could be ok, that maybe something would change, when it seemed impossible. It was also an escape, a freedom, but always underlined with danger, reflecting the danger of the secret that lay within him.
But did he enjoy it, did he thrive on it? No, not in the slightest. It took over who he was and it almost destroyed him, and what he was actually trying to achieve, value, worth, acceptance.
His early relationship with Christian was thwart with danger and risk. There was a thrill in that, an excitement, he knew that feeling, it was familiar, it drove him, gave him the feeling of being alive, of not being a ghost in the world, but it was also unrelenting stress, pressure, guilt, turmoil that was killing him from the inside out.
And there were other feelings developing that were real, sustainable, that grew from the core of him, the real him, that made him want to be the person he could be, that he really was. Overwhelming love for Christian. The feeling of being loved, accepted and valued for simply being himself. They became his grounding, his wings, his everything, the emotion, the feeling he needed, his sense of being solid, real, alive. They flooded the darkness with light and helped him face the danger, and get through it.
After coming out and being with Christian, he was happy and content for the first time ever in his life. He blossomed and became his true self. It was a relief to escape the risk and dangers, he thrived without them, not on them.
They crept back in when it came to his family, when they became significant and important in his life again, intertwined in every way with his life with Christian. Suddenly he had everything to lose again and then he messed up. Old feelings regarding Masood and himself resurfaced again. Suddenly he felt that danger, that self-doubt, that desperate desire not to mess up, to measure up to the people around him and hold on to the position and regard he was in, the love, acceptance, pride he had from others. He started off taking small risks, that grew into bigger ones and found himself in a familiar pattern of old. But not once did he look like he was really enjoying it, that he was thriving on it, the scenes with Danny more than most.
So yes, danger and risk taking are a big part of who Syed is, but almost as a default, in a completely negative and contradictory way to who he really is and what he really needs and wants.
I haven't had time to re-read what I've written here at all, so apologies if it's full of typos and/or doesn't make sense:o
Ok, that's me for now, I'll stop boring you all:p Got to go and get ready for our day out. Bye:) xx
I'm enjoying all the discussion, feeling rather battered myself today though. Last night was tough to watch.
Syed is feeling baffled by Christian's behavior, and to me he is not coming across as if he has anything to hide. I'm not getting the feeling that he slept with Danny. I felt his love for Christian loud and clear with the 2 I Love You's. You would think he'd be worried rather than puzzled by Christian's attitude if he had slept with Danny and had something to hide.
It was horrible seeing Christian so broken. Seeing him laugh with bitterness when Syed said I love you, just heartbreaking. And the scene in the gym with Roxy broke my heart. He's too upset to speak to her either, to open up.
It makes you wonder exactly what other terrible things that Danny might have said to bring him as low as he is.
Christian saying it was a homophobic attack, although I didn't like this from the spoilers, now I've seen it play out on screen, to be honest I think he just reached for the first thing that came to mind. Really good to see Syed phone the police, and take control, and report it as a hate crime. I just feel so, so sorry for both of them.
Alex in Brum, and Rhumba, agree with quite a few of your posts. Alex, loved your epic ramble last night.
I keep dreaming of a Chryed ending where Christian goes to the airport. Then Syed runs after him to stop him from departing and tell Christian how much he loves him etc. Then Syed gets to the airport and he can see that he's too late - that Christian's flight is already gone and he can see the aeroplane flying off. He collapses to the floor, crying. Then there's a hand holding his shoulder from behind, and someone says, "Sy." Syed turns around to see Christian looking at him. Christian hadn't taken the flight because he loved Syed too much to let him go. And then they kiss and make up. Passionately :sleep:
I'd absolutely love something like this! Also because we are enduring the extremely painful soap, we need a bit of totally romantic epic love story at the end.
I'll be really sad if they don't get the duff duff and JT - but it's looking unlikely.
Reading everyone's posts reflecting on how close we are to the end is very sad. For all the faults in the storylines during these last 2 years, there is still much I've enjoyed and beauty and power of them still affects me just as much as ever. And the fandom has brought such wonderful things to all of us.
JN & others who went back to see Marc again, so happy for you all. Thank goodness we have outside stuff going on with both of them, it's helped me cope as it would be bleak indeed otherwise.
I see Lovesy has posted some epic rambles as well, not read those yet. *waves*
I'm going to throw some rambly thoughts out there. I fear this may not be very coherent or consistent but I'm going to let my fingers do the talking and see what comes out!
I am actually kind of liking where they're taking Chryed, at least where they were today.
Ever since first kiss, there has never been any doubt about their love for each other. Even when they split up, neither denied or doubted their love. Doubted that they could be together, yes. But even when Christian left before the wedding, even Syed got married, even when Syed rejected Christian after the reveal, Christian never doubted that Syed loved him. He only doubted Syed's ability to follow his heart and choose to be with him. Even on Chryed's wedding day, Christian still firmly believed that Syed loved him - he just wasn't sure that Syed would overcome his wobbles and go through with the wedding. And Syed reaffirmed his love for Christian in his vows.
What we have now, however, is very different. This is the first time that Christian has started to doubt Syed's feelings, doubt that Syed loves him as much as he loves Syed. And I actually think these fears are totally understandable, given all the lying, the kiss, Christian's underlying insecurities and DTW twisting the knife.
It's painful to watch, because a) sad Christian b) Chryed not getting on and c) we know his fears and doubts are unfounded.
However, the love is still there. It is clear that Christian is not falling out of love with Syed, but is terrified of losing him, because he loves him so much. If he didn't love him, he wouldn't be so sad, so broken, so angry. And it is clear (to us) that Syed loves Christian - he said it at the wedding, and showed it by turning up, he said it again tonight and is clearly completely not interested in DTW and very worried about Christian.
While it's certainly not the story I would have chosen (not an angst ****, would much prefer Chryed happy and united against the world) I am surprising myself by not totally hating their unhappiness, because the underlying love is still there.
It's reminding me of Chrolli (who I love, but nowhere near on the same level as Chryed) - they managed to get through 8 months of cheating, splitting up, seeing other people and getting divorced while all their friends and family and viewers were screaming at the screen STOP BEING STUPID YOU CLEARLY STILL LOVE EACH OTHER TALK TO EACH OTHER YOU IDIOTS!
And I think this is what we're all going to be doing. Chryed are still in love, still want to be together but let pride and anger and stupidity get in the way - for a bit.
For those who don't follow them, it actually took one of Chrolli flatlining in hospital for them both to realise how stupid they were being, and now they are once again happily married.
So I'm just going to brace myself for a lot of screaming at the telly, safe in the knowledge that they will eventually realise what idiots they are being and that it will all end happily.
Did that make any sense? Was there a point? I'm going to sleep now.
Great post -
BIB 1 - this is what is coming across to me as well. All through the original story and indeed up till now, Christian has never doubted that Syed loves him. I do think perhaps on the 10th Nov he might have come close though, but I do think that was more about knowing the circumstances of Yasmin and Amira's return were simply too complicated for their love to overcome, not that the love has gone. But this time I think because of the events up to and on the day of the wedding, it was so fragile when they finally married, Danny has been able to shake that last bit of faith.
I think for the first time Christian is now questioning how well he knows Syed, and he can't believe him. He doubts how well he truly knows him, doubts that foundation that he always had.
BIB 2 - Absolutely - he still loves Syed - he hasn't fallen out of love with him. But he doesn't believe that Syed loves him. Syed in turn, I suspect won't say it next week because he'll be so upset and disappointed that Christian believed Danny over him, I really can't see it playing out any other way.
All god awful painful to watch and I'm finding it tough going!
Great post starfish
Agree that they still love each other and that Syed will be hurt that Christian doubts him.
As Christian said, he's tired. Maybe he craves some peace and doesn't feel that either he or Syed can get that if they stay together. Syed just needs to convince him otherwise.
Finally caught up. I don't think anyone else is around now? And I should really be cleaning...
Regarding Marc hugs - I went to see Tape again on Tuesday night, with a friend and we both, including me, liked it all again very much. We then went to the stage door, as my friend is close to one of the Asian actors who did a slot, so had that to discuss with Marc. Marc came right out, big grin and came right over to me. My friend said he acted as if I was an old friend! We chatted, and he did say that his agent was there, perhaps with some news, but he didn't know.
I didn't ask for a hug, but did ask if he would remove his hat and let me take a photo with his hair. I told him we called his hair the Precious and had competitions regarding our favourite styles.
Don't know why I didn't ask for a hug, but it felt to me like a boundary I didn't want to trespass with him.
I did give him a thank you card, which he said he would read. Hope he did.:o
Comments
So pleased you and the other Chryedians had a brilliant time watching Tape
I thought Syed was 100% genuine in his love and concern for Christian too.
Yes, he definitely is. Damn you and your pride, Syed!
I want a Marc hug - was too shy to ask. Or to ask for an autograph either. But I got my photo and cast card so I'm good
Thanks everyone
If EVER the opportunity arises and I am there, you will get a hug.
Marc's very nice you, and he's huggable, it won't be hard to get a hug (not that I asked but he was FINE about it).:o:)
Yay - he's lovely, and he hugs.
Aww He sounds so sweet
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I suppose I could see him using that excuse because it's happened to him before and thought it might raise less questions but...I dunno, I don't really understand why either
Aw, love that he hugged you because he recognised you
Aw
He was fine about it
Nah, but he's moving for hugs now;)
Feels safe now the worst of us didn't actually twang his pants or something:eek:
Not true, I think he's just got used to us all, and recognises us (JN) and YOU are all lovely:D
And so is he.
He laaaaaarved it. And he loves it. We are awesome.
I would never do that :eek::sleep:
This can't be disputed, really. :cool:
Lovely Jenn, and Lovely Marc:)
And yes, Marc is lovely, and so is Johnny and so are all you guys
Gotta get some sleep now, work in the morning :yawn: Night all xx
And doubly lovely Rhumba
Everybody's lovely
Night night! xx
This...
Like I've said before, I quite like the theme of the storyline - Syed doubting himself thanks to his failing business, Michael's harsh words and Danny's attraction to him - but I hate the way it's been done with him taking money from his family's business, leaving Tamwar to face the wrath of Zainab and being moody with Christian quite so blatantly. it's like TPTB wanted him to be that 'bad boy' again but the trouble is, he shouldn't be after falling in love with Christian because it made him a better person. He'd still have issues with Masood and Zainab but even this aspect of the storyline hasn't been done that well, seemingly dropped quite quickly.
And doing much of this after their wedding... :rolleyes:
I did like what they did with Christian last night, I found his scene in the gym with Roxy and his later scene with Syed in the flat when he laughed bitterly quite 'moving' if that's the right word, I could understand how he was feeling at those points and why. I sympathised with Syed too because he does love Christian but his heads been all over the place lately.
It's just a shame that Syed's character has been destroyed in the process - thanks to the AB incidents and his sheer moodiness with Christian before the wedding - because the producers have almost taken Syed back rather than forwards, a bit like Kat, no intelligent writing needed.
And I do think a certain scene we're getting next week is very cruel - I'm dreading Syed telling Christian that he's allowed Amira to take Yasmin just moments after they've made up again, though if no one was willing to give him advice over the matter I can still sympathise.
Feels jealous.. :sleep:
He looks totally huggable when he appears on tv.
Last nights ep made me feel terribly sorry for both of them.
Agree it's wrong for Christian to blame a homophobic attack but glad Syed referred to it, rightly, as a hate crime.
A plot thing, I guess, takes it back to nasty bruise though and Syed standing up for what's right, making sure Christian gets justice.
Poor tired, broken Christian.
It's horrible seeing Christian so broken, it's like the fight has gone out of him and he's lost his spark
I could be wrong but I think this storyline is now more about Christian getting his happy ending than anything else. I think most people now think Christian deserves better than Syed, but I agree with what Johnny said, that they recognise that Syed is his true love. Christian will never find a love like Syed again so even though people think he deserves better, they still want him to be with Syed cos he makes him happy. So I think we'll see Christian become very depressed and really hit rock bottom over the next 2 weeks, and people will be really rooting for him to finally get his happy ending. Which he will do.
bib 2 - Really? He doesn't seem very happy to me
bib 3 - Can't really see how he'll get his happy ending now
Great posts last night JN and Rhumba, I agree
Glad you had a brilliant time at Tape again JN:D I love Marc /not news:sleep:
Regarding Christian saying it was a homophobic attack, I can kind of see why he would say that. Lying because he is so broken, can't face it, and he feels his very foundations have turned out to be a lie. This makes the fact that it is out of character make sense, like others have said. But the actual homophobic bit, maybe he says it because he has been attacked in that way before, so it comes to mind and maybe is more believable. He's a big guy, would he be a realistic target for muggers? But also, I think it's the fact that a homophobic attack isn't purely physical, it's a personal, emotional, hateful attack on who he is and what he feels. Which is more in tune with what he is actually feeling at the moment, it blankets his emotional pain, his vulnerability, his sense of despair, loss of value, dignity, worth. A simple mugging would maybe not cover enough?
I'm off out for the day with kids, so I can't stay. But I've got a couple of rambles I'm gonna drop in first, and then run, sorry:o:p
Pride
I wanted to say something regarding pride and what it means for someone like Syed. Especially in light of the spoilers saying it is down to pride that he doesn't tell Christian he loves him. I really believe the manifestation of pride has completely different connotations for someone who has low esteem and sense of worth, like Syed has, and would be feeling particularly at that moment knowing that Christian had completely lost his faith in him.
For someone like Masood for example, pride is what it says on the can. It is taking pleasure in your achievements but it is also about an inflated sense of your own importance, arrogance, feeling you are superior, not wanting to admit you wrong, or appear weak, or give something of yourself to someone else if it means you will no longer feel you have the upper hand.
It is different for someone like Syed, because it comes from a different place. Syed has a fragile sense of worth, he doesn't feel superior, he often finds himself lacking in comparison to other people. He feels vulnerable, out of control often, suffers from guilt. But at the same time he is desperate to do good, to please people, to be valued, to find that sense of worth. To feel like this can often be contradictory, you feel like you always mess up, always get things wrong, hurt people, are pretty rubbish, but at the same time you know that there is more to you underneath, that you are not a bad person, that you try to do good, and you so want to be accepted, to be understood, to be loved. You want that validation of who you really are, and are fearful at the same time that you don't deserve it, that others will think you don't deserve it.
Pride comes into place as a protection of that fragile self and your place/sense of value in the world. Not because you feel superior or self-righteous, but the opposite. Syed was embarrassed to admit he owed Danny money, because he'd already messed up so much, felt so bad about it and himself already and he was scared to compound it, to himself and to Christian. I'm not excusing it here, or saying it was ok, because it wasn't, I'm just explaining.
Not being able to tell Christian he loves him, could again, be a protection of his fragile sense of self and worth. Christian was the one person who did see the real him underneath, saw that he wasn't a bad person, loved and valued him, but in a way that was real (unlike Zainab). He saw his flaws, but understood that his flaws were not the total sum of him (unlike Masood), he knew that there was something of value, something worthwhile, that Syed was deserving of love, that he loved deeply himself, that he was ultimately a good person despite his flaws. And Syed embraced that, he showed all of himself to Christian before and during the wedding. Gave himself and his love to Christian in the most symbolic way there is. He showed Christian his truth.
But then Christian took that away (from Syed's pov, obviously Syed's actions helped lead him to that). In Christian's eyes Syed was just his flaws after all, he really wasn't worth loving, didn't deserve it. And that devastates Syed, crushes him, from his two conflicting angles. He loses his validation, that he is worth loving, but at the same time he knows that what Christian believes to be true isn't. His fragile sense of worth, his heart which is true, is screaming out, please believe me, I need you to believe me, you are the only person who really knows me, please don't take that away. He needs Christian so much, loves him so completely, needs his love so much, needs their connection. He is becoming invisible again, Christian doesn't see him, doesn't believe in him, in his love, in his worth/value as a person.
He needs Christian so desperately because he loves him so much. He begs him to come back to him. But he can't tell him he loves him. Maybe he's scared, vulnerable, trying to protect himself and ironically, that love that he can't express. He gave all of himself and his love to Christian at the wedding and look what happened. Christian disbelieved the very heart of him, rejected the very essense of him as false, as part of his facade, as flawed, as wrong, as bad and unworthy. Syed's heart, his love, their love, their connection, something so fundamental and true for Syed. Maybe a shield has gone up again around his true self and he's struggling to remove it again. Maybe he fears he really isn't worthy of Christian's love or that Christian doesn't think he is, that Christian wishes he doesn't love him, but doesn't want to give up his dream of a family. Maybe he realises that his actions have led them to this point, that he has done this Maybe he fears that Christian's love has diminished, and that he's ruined that too.
He's probably also trying to keep some dignity intact, when he feels so little about himself, when Christian thought so little of him. This is where pride comes in, but it's not arrogance. It's foolish, stupid, stubborn and does Christian a disservice yes, but if played out like this I could sympathise and understand.
Of course the way the story has played out has made it completely understandable and realistic why Christian would not believe in Syed and his love, I totally sympathise with him too. But I also think that they can get through this and it will be believable, considering everything thing else they've had to go through. They both clearly love each other, want to be together, need each other, are good for each other, compliment each other, make each other a better, more well-rounded person, if they can just overcome these issues, which I believe they can
Danny said that Syed likes danger and taking risks, that he needs it, thrives on it.
Syed has spent a good deal of his life feeling that danger, the danger of being found out to be gay, of people discovering his true identity. He kept it hidden for so long, kept himself locked inside, that he didn't even know who he was or what he wanted. He filled that chasm, that doubt, fear and guilt, papered over the darkness, the danger, with the image, the reflection of what his parents wanted him to be, what was expected of him. But that image itself was fractious, because of the distorted and contradictory view his parents had of him and how they treated him. His mother putting him on a pedestal, with unrealistic expectations, placing all her hopes, dreams and superficial wants and desires for herself, her family, and their place, projectory and sense of worth/importance in the community on his shoulders. His father resenting him, disappointed in how Syed's existance affected him, their family from the day he was born. Knowing Syed could never live up to Zainab's expectations, resenting her devotion and delusion. Masood battling in the face of that delusion, expecting, wanting Syed to fall at every opportunity, almost like it was a validation of his own position in the family.
Battling these two extremes, plus hiding his dark and dangerous secret, coupled with his personality, wanting to please, he finds himself taking risks. In some ways his entire being was a risk, every day, every thought, every feeling was a risk. Danger and risk were a part of his very existance. Almost a habit, but something he couldn't escape from, couldn't see a way out of.
It was out of his control. In trying to get some control back, he takes even more risks, risks with his family, with money.
He embraced the risk taking, in a reckless, desperate way. An illusion he was in control, an attempt to feel something, a thrill, anything other than numb, locked inside, desperate and lonely. There was a hope in risk taking, a chance, a gamble, that things could be ok, that he could be ok, that maybe something would change, when it seemed impossible. It was also an escape, a freedom, but always underlined with danger, reflecting the danger of the secret that lay within him.
But did he enjoy it, did he thrive on it? No, not in the slightest. It took over who he was and it almost destroyed him, and what he was actually trying to achieve, value, worth, acceptance.
His early relationship with Christian was thwart with danger and risk. There was a thrill in that, an excitement, he knew that feeling, it was familiar, it drove him, gave him the feeling of being alive, of not being a ghost in the world, but it was also unrelenting stress, pressure, guilt, turmoil that was killing him from the inside out.
And there were other feelings developing that were real, sustainable, that grew from the core of him, the real him, that made him want to be the person he could be, that he really was. Overwhelming love for Christian. The feeling of being loved, accepted and valued for simply being himself. They became his grounding, his wings, his everything, the emotion, the feeling he needed, his sense of being solid, real, alive. They flooded the darkness with light and helped him face the danger, and get through it.
After coming out and being with Christian, he was happy and content for the first time ever in his life. He blossomed and became his true self. It was a relief to escape the risk and dangers, he thrived without them, not on them.
They crept back in when it came to his family, when they became significant and important in his life again, intertwined in every way with his life with Christian. Suddenly he had everything to lose again and then he messed up. Old feelings regarding Masood and himself resurfaced again. Suddenly he felt that danger, that self-doubt, that desperate desire not to mess up, to measure up to the people around him and hold on to the position and regard he was in, the love, acceptance, pride he had from others. He started off taking small risks, that grew into bigger ones and found himself in a familiar pattern of old. But not once did he look like he was really enjoying it, that he was thriving on it, the scenes with Danny more than most.
So yes, danger and risk taking are a big part of who Syed is, but almost as a default, in a completely negative and contradictory way to who he really is and what he really needs and wants.
I haven't had time to re-read what I've written here at all, so apologies if it's full of typos and/or doesn't make sense:o
Ok, that's me for now, I'll stop boring you all:p Got to go and get ready for our day out. Bye:) xx
Thanks to everyone who has posted the videos!
I'm enjoying all the discussion, feeling rather battered myself today though. Last night was tough to watch.
Syed is feeling baffled by Christian's behavior, and to me he is not coming across as if he has anything to hide. I'm not getting the feeling that he slept with Danny. I felt his love for Christian loud and clear with the 2 I Love You's. You would think he'd be worried rather than puzzled by Christian's attitude if he had slept with Danny and had something to hide.
It was horrible seeing Christian so broken. Seeing him laugh with bitterness when Syed said I love you, just heartbreaking. And the scene in the gym with Roxy broke my heart. He's too upset to speak to her either, to open up.
It makes you wonder exactly what other terrible things that Danny might have said to bring him as low as he is.
Christian saying it was a homophobic attack, although I didn't like this from the spoilers, now I've seen it play out on screen, to be honest I think he just reached for the first thing that came to mind. Really good to see Syed phone the police, and take control, and report it as a hate crime. I just feel so, so sorry for both of them.
Alex in Brum, and Rhumba, agree with quite a few of your posts. Alex, loved your epic ramble last night.
I'd absolutely love something like this! Also because we are enduring the extremely painful soap, we need a bit of totally romantic epic love story at the end.
I'll be really sad if they don't get the duff duff and JT - but it's looking unlikely.
Reading everyone's posts reflecting on how close we are to the end is very sad. For all the faults in the storylines during these last 2 years, there is still much I've enjoyed and beauty and power of them still affects me just as much as ever. And the fandom has brought such wonderful things to all of us.
JN & others who went back to see Marc again, so happy for you all.
I see Lovesy has posted some epic rambles as well, not read those yet. *waves*
Great post -
BIB 1 - this is what is coming across to me as well. All through the original story and indeed up till now, Christian has never doubted that Syed loves him. I do think perhaps on the 10th Nov he might have come close though, but I do think that was more about knowing the circumstances of Yasmin and Amira's return were simply too complicated for their love to overcome, not that the love has gone. But this time I think because of the events up to and on the day of the wedding, it was so fragile when they finally married, Danny has been able to shake that last bit of faith.
I think for the first time Christian is now questioning how well he knows Syed, and he can't believe him. He doubts how well he truly knows him, doubts that foundation that he always had.
BIB 2 - Absolutely - he still loves Syed - he hasn't fallen out of love with him. But he doesn't believe that Syed loves him. Syed in turn, I suspect won't say it next week because he'll be so upset and disappointed that Christian believed Danny over him, I really can't see it playing out any other way.
All god awful painful to watch and I'm finding it tough going!
Agree that they still love each other and that Syed will be hurt that Christian doubts him.
As Christian said, he's tired. Maybe he craves some peace and doesn't feel that either he or Syed can get that if they stay together. Syed just needs to convince him otherwise.
Hi.Finally a moment to scroll back. Dessie, wonderful video; thanks for the link.
Does anyone have the written transcriptions or vids of the answers the writers gave?? I would be sooo grateful.
Regarding Marc hugs - I went to see Tape again on Tuesday night, with a friend and we both, including me, liked it all again very much. We then went to the stage door, as my friend is close to one of the Asian actors who did a slot, so had that to discuss with Marc. Marc came right out, big grin and came right over to me. My friend said he acted as if I was an old friend! We chatted, and he did say that his agent was there, perhaps with some news, but he didn't know.
I didn't ask for a hug, but did ask if he would remove his hat and let me take a photo with his hair. I told him we called his hair the Precious and had competitions regarding our favourite styles.
Don't know why I didn't ask for a hug, but it felt to me like a boundary I didn't want to trespass with him.
I did give him a thank you card, which he said he would read. Hope he did.:o