The Apprentice Series 9 Spoilers Thread *CAUTION* MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS!

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  • thenetworkbabethenetworkbabe Posts: 45,554
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    dubest wrote: »
    I have been asking that question all along. She would have been safe, a glamorous business. and something she is already doing well. I really consider her the winner here, on her business plan.
    I blame Karren who seems to have taken a dislike to her when she was 'squabbling' with Louisa.

    I get the feeling that LS will 'wake' up in the end and go for Louisa and only offer her some more cupcake shops which he knows she can handle.

    Francesca had done nothing on the show to justify a win. Her lack of figures didn't suggest she could handle running a bigger business - - eevn if she might. She never won as a PM where everyone else left for interviews had won twice and hasn't had the highs . She would have been much more work. Leah comes with a medical certificate and clearly had worked on her figures. Luisa seems to already be very successful, had a far better show record. She's also already in her field. Claude couldn't find anything wrong with either of their plans.

    Lord Sugar's got a difficult matrix of questions to get through. The why I fired them show and the interviews show suggested Luisa was a loose cannon. But is she really that worrying when in her show business decisions she's been cautious? What was Leah doing with Zee thats any different to Luisa's record - her role there wasn't shown last night at all ? Is there a big problem in Luisa keeping her existing businesses? If so, isn't there a bigger problem Leah giving up being a practicing doctor - that will look like he's robbing the NHS of talent to make himself money. Can he really be associated with obsessive and vain people wanting to change their looks, at massive profit margins? there's been nothing on the scale of the proposals either. Is the baker supply business too big for 250k - is Leah starting up going to need less , but expand less?

    The questions continue. Does he have any choice if one team does much better in the final task? Does he admit that he can't run Luisa when she can work perfectly well with both his other strong contestants - Leah and Neil? he doesn't want to look like Jason. It would be yet another series he's avoided risk and gone for something safer. Does he say it so he can take the risk , or to kill that option later? He can't argue she's more uncontrollable than Neil , and he's just said he would employ Neil. Having set up all the risks , politically, and morally, and legally, with Leah's proposal 's proposal, isn't he bound to offer answers to them? Can that be done? Why say it so clearly that early then? On the other hand, would he say some business was risky, if he then was going to look like he never took a risk by rejecting it? How does he weigh all those risks, and being seen to avoid them?


    Its all been well laid out too - with quiet a few feints probably running. Whats Luisa's proposal? If its cake making, we see her failing making a cake in the final, and acting distressed. If its supplying equipment to bakers, why is she making cupcakes? Is it a demonstration of cupcake making, or a demonstration of what can go wrong and needs an equipment supplier? Is Luisa embracing Neil in tears because its all gone wrong , or very well? Does Leah's presentation preparation looking to be in trouble suggest it is, or is that a feint too.

    Its interesting that last nights show laid the choice out pretty equally, and ended with a line about the last task showing him who would be his best choice. If it does it clearly enough, it avoids all his problems deciding?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 147
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    If you would care to use a spell checker your long post would be easier to read.

    Half baked I suppose to you means nothing wrong. Two industry experts on here have found plenty wrong with the idea.

    We dont know how many other businesses she has had already which were not 'very' successful.

    I have never said Francesca was the best candidate but that she had the best business plan. Something safe something she was already doing, and wanting to expand. Someone has already mentioned that joining with LS as a partner is not just for his money but also for his help. I would not trust Louisa with a 'large' business either, no more than Francesca.

    I am not sure what you mean lack of figures. Anyone can make projections. If you are referring to her CV then as has been mentioned on here, that is the norm to hype the figures to get on the show. It wasnt right for her to be caught on it. I am sure that Claude checked all her publicly available figures and didnt seem to mention anything wrong with them.
  • Tommo781Tommo781 Posts: 4,935
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    dubest wrote: »
    If you would care to use a spell checker your long post would be easier to read.

    Half baked I suppose to you means nothing wrong. Two industry experts on here have found plenty wrong with the idea.

    We dont know how many other businesses she has had already which were not 'very' successful.

    I have never said Francesca was the best candidate but that she had the best business plan. Something safe something she was already doing, and wanting to expand. Someone has already mentioned that joining with LS as a partner is not just for his money but also for his help. I would not trust Louisa with a 'large' business either, no more than Francesca.

    I am not sure what you mean lack of figures. Anyone can make projections. If you are referring to her CV then as has been mentioned on here, that is the norm to hype the figures to get on the show. It wasnt right for her to be caught on it. I am sure that Claude checked all her publicly available figures and didnt seem to mention anything wrong with them.

    BIB - perlease!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:
  • thenetworkbabethenetworkbabe Posts: 45,554
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    dubest wrote: »
    If you would care to use a spell checker your long post would be easier to read.

    Half baked I suppose to you means nothing wrong. Two industry experts on here have found plenty wrong with the idea.

    We dont know how many other businesses she has had already which were not 'very' successful.

    I have never said Francesca was the best candidate but that she had the best business plan. Something safe something she was already doing, and wanting to expand. Someone has already mentioned that joining with LS as a partner is not just for his money but also for his help. I would not trust Louisa with a 'large' business either, no more than Francesca.

    I am not sure what you mean lack of figures. Anyone can make projections. If you are referring to her CV then as has been mentioned on here, that is the norm to hype the figures to get on the show. It wasnt right for her to be caught on it. I am sure that Claude checked all her publicly available figures and didnt seem to mention anything wrong with them.

    Francesca had no business plan.She had bottom line figures off the top of her head that were incredible, and an idea where there was an opportunity to fill. No one would invest in someone who claimed that they would make completely made up profit figures - that were a couple of orders of magnitude more than what she was achieving. Even if there was a suggested path from A to B, the way the figures were just the first figure that came into her head, undermined the credibility of the plan, and her difficulty with figures suggested she would need an accountant monitoring every decision..

    Its true that she did seem to have a viable business, was running it and knew her subject. The same though could probably be said for other candidates - like Uzma or Tim. She stood no chance against Leah and Luisa who both had detailed figures, more show success, seemingly more detailed plans, and at least equal knowledge and experience in their own fields. Luisa had the additional advantage of already having and running a bigger business.

    If Francesca had had a couple of wins as PM, and offered detailed figures that showed returns as big as Leah, it would have looked very different. You are right, I think, that Francesca was always the safer option - without the risks he's identified with both finalists . But to get there she has to do at least as well as one of them, and she has to have a plan with real figures in it.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 147
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    No if you can run one 'shop' you can run a dozen. As long as they are selling the same article. If her present business was viable and she has three of them then she can run a dozen, perhaps with a little bit of help. I again am not sure about the figures you mean. The ones at the moment on her CV or her projected ones on her business plan.

    You seem to forget that Francesca wants to do what she is already doing successfully. The others are going into 'new' territory with added risk.

    So what if she needs an accountant. All businesses usually need one after a time. I doubt if at the moment she has one 'monitoring' every decision and can quite manage herself without one.

    I have said and will repeat because I think that it will end this way. That if Louisa would want more cupcake shops then she ought to win. She is the better candidate. I have endorsed her all along. And I seem to be the only one. Everyone else went for Neil. That alone that he cant find a decent 'plan' speaks volumes. And the way he argues about it. I cant see anything in him.
  • thenetworkbabethenetworkbabe Posts: 45,554
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    dubest wrote: »
    No if you can run one 'shop' you can run a dozen. As long as they are selling the same article. If her present business was viable and she has three of them then she can run a dozen, perhaps with a little bit of help. I again am not sure about the figures you mean. The ones at the moment on her CV or her projected ones on her business plan.

    You seem to forget that Francesca wants to do what she is already doing successfully. The others are going into 'new' territory with added risk.

    So what if she needs an accountant. All businesses usually need one after a time. I doubt if at the moment she has one 'monitoring' every decision and can quite manage herself without one.

    I have said and will repeat because I think that it will end this way. That if Louisa would want more cupcake shops then she ought to win. She is the better candidate. I have endorsed her all along. And I seem to be the only one. Everyone else went for Neil. That alone that he cant find a decent 'plan' speaks volumes. And the way he argues about it. I cant see anything in him.

    I didn't go for Neil. The over confidence, and mistakes that he had from early on ended up dooming his plan. it was always going to be a problem. The doubt was whether he would hit it before he won, or if Lord Sugar would ignore it I have thought from early on it should be Leah and Luisa, with Francesca emerging if either crashed and burned, or she turned in some good tasks.

    You are right the argument that if I can do it once I can do it 12 times has some merit - assuming the market is there and you have the time, or a plan how to manage 12 as well as one.The impression was that the steps from 1 to 12 were not laid out - with any figures that got there with the 250k on offer? We only know what we are told about the plans.

    You are right there's a big problem with the plans. Its not an equal playing field. People who have a business are at an advantage over people who don't - they have demonstrated knowledge , experience and figures. More so if the business is related to the proposal. People with detailed figures, or who are focused on their balance sheets, are more likely to know them than people who focus on the front line. Some people may have the money to pay for advice on the plan, and others not. Leah's got better maths skills probably than most accountants. She also doesn't have to memorise her figures, if she can reel them off from a photographic memory. .

    As it is, you can have the best idea , but it won't get far if the figures don't support it. Thats what seemed to happen to Susan - where after a close look at the plan with some figures, it became a good prospect. Don't know what you do about it though? If someone professional tidied up all the plans , asked for added detail, and spotted and filled in the blanks, with realistic figures, how could you know how much to credit the candidate with? You wouldn't get semi finalists being sent home because their plans were as flawed as Neil or Jordan's, though.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 958
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    Apparently there's a neat twist in the final task. Both finalists must compete for the colleagues they want to work with.

    'One candidate lands their preferred teammates, leaving the other with a fistful of shortstraws.' Leah and Luisa respectively?

    There are problems with the name of one business (Luisa's 'Masterbake'?) and the corporate identity of the other (Leah's too Barbie-ish?).

    Interesting that the Telegraph has described Leah's proposal as 'a chain of clinics specialising in non-surgical cosmetic procedures'.

    If that's the line LS uses to sell Leah as the winner, his task may be easier than many would think.
  • skippy upwoodskippy upwood Posts: 150
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    It's obvious that Luisa will win (sadly). The Twitter account, the 180 degree u-turn from LS and his advisers and the return of Jason are all dead giveaways.

    Though I will be very happy if I am wrong.
  • Sherlock_HolmesSherlock_Holmes Posts: 6,882
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    frally wrote: »
    'One candidate lands their preferred teammates, leaving the other with a fistful of shortstraws.' Leah and Luisa respectively?

    Would Leah really want to work with Alex and Myles again :confused:
  • MonksealMonkseal Posts: 12,008
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    Beyond the boardroom, Leah and Myles seemed to work tolerably well together. Alex definitely gives me pause but it's a bunch of odds and sods. Leah doesn't have either of the people she seems like she'd most want to work with (Luisa and Jordan) available to pick.

    That aside though, Leah's team looks assembled custom to what she's doing. Myles is there to make things look classy, Uzma's there because she's got beauty business experience (she says), Francesca's the everywoman. Luisa's just looks like a bunch of leftovers.

    I can't see either woman picking Zeeshaan in particular. Leah loathed him on a visceral level and Luisa spent the first few episodes noisily saying he was full of shit. Between all that and Jason being on her team, I say Luisa's the one left with a bunch of people she doesn't want.
  • LaurieMarlowLaurieMarlow Posts: 5,003
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    Coming back to Francesca, the specific issue brought up in the boardroom was how she was planning to achieve scale with her idea. And she utterly failed to answer that.

    Sure, she's run her own dance studio, but she needed to show how she was planning to run 3/5/10 studios that she wouldnt have much day to day contact with.

    I suspect Shugs was looking for something quite straightforward as an answer. For example, how she was going to train and manage the management staff who would run each outlet. A curriculum of sorts to be followed across all schools. A set of guideline to ensure some consistency across the brand.

    But all she gave him was info on the demand being there. All fine and dandy, but there were huge questions around how she would capitalise on that demand, which she more or less ignored.
  • slouchingthatchslouchingthatch Posts: 2,351
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    Coming back to Francesca, the specific issue brought up in the boardroom was how she was planning to achieve scale with her idea. And she utterly failed to answer that.

    Sure, she's run her own dance studio, but she needed to show how she was planning to run 3/5/10 studios that she wouldnt have much day to day contact with.

    I suspect Shugs was looking for something quite straightforward as an answer. For example, how she was going to train and manage the management staff who would run each outlet. A curriculum of sorts to be followed across all schools. A set of guideline to ensure some consistency across the brand.

    But all she gave him was info on the demand being there. All fine and dandy, but there were huge questions around how she would capitalise on that demand, which she more or less ignored.
    The answer, sadly, was quite a simple one. Expand via a franchise model, which is standard in this kind of entertainment business. If Francesca had done her homework, she would have known this.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 147
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    As I mentioned on Francesca own thread I dont consider this a fair question. You gave the simple answer yourself dont you think she could do that as well. She has ten years training in the business do you consider her such a fool. Maybe she didnt understand the question or thought giving her answer was more important to impress him. I dont know. But that is no reason to dismiss her. I may also add LS treated her very, very badly. She has done nothing 'wrong' and he gave her no 'with regrets' or offered his business card. In my eyes she won the 'apprentice'.
  • Sherlock_HolmesSherlock_Holmes Posts: 6,882
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    Monkseal wrote: »
    Beyond the boardroom, Leah and Myles seemed to work tolerably well together. Alex definitely gives me pause but it's a bunch of odds and sods. Leah doesn't have either of the people she seems like she'd most want to work with (Luisa and Jordan) available to pick.

    That aside though, Leah's team looks assembled custom to what she's doing. Myles is there to make things look classy, Uzma's there because she's got beauty business experience (she says), Francesca's the everywoman. Luisa's just looks like a bunch of leftovers.

    I can't see either woman picking Zeeshaan in particular. Leah loathed him on a visceral level and Luisa spent the first few episodes noisily saying he was full of shit. Between all that and Jason being on her team, I say Luisa's the one left with a bunch of people she doesn't want.

    The description makes it seem like one finalist gets first pick on all 4 teammates at once (otherwise, the teams couldn't get so uneven; as the preview states) due to the "competing" nature of the picking order.

    Otherwise, I could see it going like this:

    Neil
    Francesca
    Natalie
    Myles
    Jason
    Uzma
    Zee
    Alex

    (though you would then think in that case that Luisa would gift Zee to Leah)
  • LaurieMarlowLaurieMarlow Posts: 5,003
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    dubest wrote: »
    As I mentioned on Francesca own thread I dont consider this a fair question. You gave the simple answer yourself dont you think she could do that as well. She has ten years training in the business do you consider her such a fool. Maybe she didnt understand the question or thought giving her answer was more important to impress him. I dont know. But that is no reason to dismiss her. I may also add LS treated her very, very badly. She has done nothing 'wrong' and he gave her no 'with regrets' or offered his business card. In my eyes she won the 'apprentice'.

    I must say, I don't think she was badly treated at all. I thought the tone of her firing was very pleasant.

    Point is though, it was a very legitimate question for an investor to ask. It should have been covered in depth in her business plan (it obviously wasnt). Lots of people out there run small dance school type businesses like Francesca's. But there are very few examples that have achieved scale (stagecoach being an obvious example, in a related field).

    Investing in 1 school would be too small scale for Siralan, obviously he needs to know what the plan is to take it bigger. And Francesca didn't have an answer for him. Not understanding the question isn't any kind of excuse, because it's a really key question and she should have anticipated it (and outlined it in her plan).
  • thenetworkbabethenetworkbabe Posts: 45,554
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    Monkseal wrote: »
    Beyond the boardroom, Leah and Myles seemed to work tolerably well together. Alex definitely gives me pause but it's a bunch of odds and sods. Leah doesn't have either of the people she seems like she'd most want to work with (Luisa and Jordan) available to pick.

    That aside though, Leah's team looks assembled custom to what she's doing. Myles is there to make things look classy, Uzma's there because she's got beauty business experience (she says), Francesca's the everywoman. Luisa's just looks like a bunch of leftovers.

    I can't see either woman picking Zeeshaan in particular. Leah loathed him on a visceral level and Luisa spent the first few episodes noisily saying he was full of shit. Between all that and Jason being on her team, I say Luisa's the one left with a bunch of people she doesn't want.

    If you are doing beauty you would want Uzma. She's in the field and has an excellent website herself. Myles though failed miserably with the deadly kids meal advert and showed real problems with his advertising skills. Francesca, while competent, produced the yawn inducing Dating advert and the losing event. Alex is a complete loose cannon. I doubt all that amounts to an advantage.

    If Luisa's got Neil I can't see how he was left out that late. He would be the one to get, and Luisa can work with and manage w him. Jason needs to be lkept away from any website or campaign design and it will be intriguing what use Zee is put too.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 147
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    I must say, I don't think she was badly treated at all. I thought the tone of her firing was very pleasant.

    Point is though, it was a very legitimate question for an investor to ask. It should have been covered in depth in her business plan (it obviously wasnt). Lots of people out there run small dance school type businesses like Francesca's. But there are very few examples that have achieved scale (stagecoach being an obvious example, in a related field).

    Investing in 1 school would be too small scale for Siralan, obviously he needs to know what the plan is to take it bigger. And Francesca didn't have an answer for him. Not understanding the question isn't any kind of excuse, because it's a really key question and she should have anticipated it (and outlined it in her plan).

    You dont seem to have really read my post.
    However 'pleasant' LS was to her, he didnt treat her like he has treated others by saying 'with regret' and offering his card.

    I am not sure LS also reads the business plans, maybe it was in there. But a previous poster explained how 'simple' it was and therefore someone in the business for ten years is unlikely to be a 'simpleton' and not know.

    I think its more important to explain to LS that there is a demand than the details how to go about it. Sometimes they are not finalised since there are many ways to do it. I dont really even think its make a big difference how its done and therefore not a fair question to ask.

    He did approve of the plan saying it had 'legs'. That should be enough the details can be 'thrashed' out later. Even if she did need help with them that is no reason to dismiss her. He should provide the help, like another poster said, he is not a partner just for his money.

    He is not called Sir Alan anymore but Lord Sugar.
  • Eittol96Eittol96 Posts: 656
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    dubest wrote: »
    You dont seem to have really read my post.
    However 'pleasant' LS was to her, he didnt treat her like he has treated others by saying 'with regret' and offering his card.

    The "with regret" is limited to a very few and is very hard to earn. The buisness card has only been offered to the last few for the Junior Apprentices. I don't recall him giving one to Susan Ma, but he has gone into business with her - so if he thinks he could make money in the future with Francesca then it could happen.
  • Tommo781Tommo781 Posts: 4,935
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    dubest wrote: »
    He did approve of the plan saying it had 'legs'. That should be enough the details can be 'thrashed' out later. Even if she did need help with them that is no reason to dismiss her. He should provide the help, like another poster said, he is not a partner just for his money.

    I don't get this. He may have said it "had legs", but that doesn't mean it was the best proposition. Why "should" LS help her? He only has an obligation to the eventual winner. None of us knows the full extent of any of the business plans. We only know the snippets that have been shown, so we are not in a position to say which is the best and most likely to succeed.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 147
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    Eittol96 wrote: »
    The "with regret" is limited to a very few and is very hard to earn. The buisness card has only been offered to the last few for the Junior Apprentices. I don't recall him giving one to Susan Ma, but he has gone into business with her - so if he thinks he could make money in the future with Francesca then it could happen.

    As far as I remember he gave it to everyone. To the one he didnt give it to at the time on the show he made a special 'tweet' that he did give it afterwards. Perhaps others can confirm this.
    In this series he has already said it to less deserving people than her.
    Francesca has tweeted that she has had investment offers, good for her, take them and xxxx Lord Sugar.
    See my own new thread about the winners. They will give him a bigger headache than he has ever had from Spurs or S English. He should have learnt his lesson by now not to 'dabble' in things he knows nothing about. Apparently he hasnt. This will be his day to regret.
    Who knows this may even be the end of apprentice. He will be glad the BBC is dropping it. He is just not up to it anymore.
  • Tommo781Tommo781 Posts: 4,935
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    dubest wrote: »
    As far as I remember he gave it to everyone. To the one he didnt give it to at the time on the show he made a special 'tweet' that he did give it afterwards. Perhaps others can confirm this.
    In this series he has already said it to less deserving people than her.
    Francesca has tweeted that she has had investment offers, good for her, take them and xxxx Lord Sugar.
    See my own new thread about the winners. They will give him a bigger headache than he has ever had from Spurs or S English. He should have learnt his lesson by now not to 'dabble' in things he knows nothing about. Apparently he hasnt. This will be his day to regret.
    Who knows this may even be the end of apprentice. He will be glad the BBC is dropping it. He is just not up to it anymore.

    Maybe you should qualify all this with "in my opinion".

    Also, there is another series for 2014 in the pipeline.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 147
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    Tommo781 wrote: »
    Maybe you should qualify all this with "in my opinion".

    Also, there is another series for 2014 in the pipeline.
    I would have thought that's self understood about any post on here.
    See my thread http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=173
    about what she is doing now. And compare it to what the others are doing.
    Well yes there is another series. This winner hasnt yet given him the headache and aggravation.
  • Tommo781Tommo781 Posts: 4,935
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    dubest wrote: »
    I would have thought that's self understood about any post on here.
    See my thread http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=173
    about what she is doing now. And compare it to what the others are doing.

    You do have a rather unfortunate turn of phrase that gives the impression that you believe your viewpoint is the only one. I am sure you don't mean it, but it does come across as the schoolmaster instructing his class. The final sentence in your new thread is of the same ilk.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 147
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    Tommo781 wrote: »
    You do have a rather unfortunate turn of phrase that gives the impression that you believe your viewpoint is the only one. I am sure you don't mean it, but it does come across as the schoolmaster instructing his class. The final sentence in your new thread is of the same ilk.

    As it happens I do happen to mean it, unless given reasons to think otherwise. Once given such reasons I may retract or at least agree that there is another viewpoint but not until then.
  • Tommo781Tommo781 Posts: 4,935
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    dubest wrote: »
    As it happens I do happen to mean it, unless given reasons to think otherwise. Once given such reasons I may retract or at least agree that there is another viewpoint but not until then.

    Oh Dear! That's me with the dunces cap on put in the corner. Or given a detention.

    Re my previous post - QED!
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