I would like to see that too. Shame I never actually watched the storyline though.
I did and I think the way JP has acted throughout it was better as Luke cried a lot but he was younger than JP was and he was gang raped. I was only a teenager myself when that storyline was on.
Does anyone else think JP should get new friends instead? Possibly Blessing as she is non judgemental.
I did and I think the way JP has acted throughout it was better as Luke cried a lot but he was younger than JP was and he was gang raped. I was only a teenager myself when that storyline was on.
Does anyone else think JP should get new friends instead? Possibly Blessing as she is non judgemental.
I really wish I watched that storyline. I've heard people say it was handled a lot more realistically and sensitively than the JP storyline. The aftermath and the last two episodes have been the only proper good episodes. IMO the rest has been incredibly mediocre.
Definitely agree with the last bit, it's moments like this I realise JP really does deserve better. I think a friendship with someone like Blessing, Trevor or Maxine could be really interesting. I'd like to see JP have some male friends. Shame they dropped the Joe/JP thing last year. I think it could have been interesting.
I did and I think the way JP has acted throughout it was better as Luke cried a lot but he was younger than JP was and he was gang raped. I was only a teenager myself when that storyline was on.
Does anyone else think JP should get new friends instead? Possibly Blessing as she is non judgemental.
They are very different characters, Luke was a popular footballer who all the girls liked, JP is a shy gay teacher and a father and the main bread winner in the household
I really wish I watched that storyline. I've heard people say it was handled a lot more realistically and sensitively than the JP storyline. The aftermath and the last two episodes have been the only proper good episodes. IMO the rest has been incredibly mediocre.
Definitely agree with the last bit, it's moments like this I realise JP really does deserve better. I think a friendship with someone like Blessing, Trevor or Maxine could be really interesting. I'd like to see JP have some male friends. Shame they dropped the Joe/JP thing last year. I think it could have been interesting.
I did think joe and JP were going to be mates, and that was a nice idea, so we could see them being lads, JP was always meant to be normal lad who just fancies boys, not ott camp like George, we need to see that
I did think joe and JP were going to be mates, and that was a nice idea, so we could see them being lads, JP was always meant to be normal lad who just fancies boys, not ott camp like George, we need to see that
Yeah, JP is too much on the campish side now (the way he flirts, even the tone of voice has changed... JP used to speak with a lower tone in his first stint, and have more of a laddish behaviour). Nothing wrong with a person being camp; but that's just not who JP was supposed to be.
Darren turned 30 for the second time last year. So he must be 31 now.
The Luke storyline was good, its hard to remember but it probably was handled much better and also the issue itself was probably had a lot less exposure than it does now - which is hard to believe because it hardly has any now. But it was the first time i'd ever heard of male rape and I learned a lot from that storyline.
I have the episode Luke finally tells someone what happened (his brother Adam) on tape somewhere. I must try to find it one day.
Yeah, JP is too much on the campish side now (the way he flirts, even the tone of voice has changed... JP used to speak with a lower tone in his first stint, and have more of a laddish behaviour). Nothing wrong with a person being camp; but that's just not who JP was supposed to be.
I think JP is uncomfortable with his masculinity at the moment. The more aggressive assertive side of it I think is making him a bit uncomfortable. Because they have consistently shown that every time he tries to take some of the power back he gets punished in some way.
I think JP is uncomfortable with his masculinity at the moment. The more aggressive assertive side of it I think is making him a bit uncomfortable. Because they have consistently shown that every time he tries to take some of the power back he gets punished in some way.
But I noticed the change soon after he came back, way before the rape.... already when he was with Doug or even before.
I guess James has subtly changed his way of playing him, consciously or unconsciously.
I did think joe and JP were going to be mates, and that was a nice idea, so we could see them being lads, JP was always meant to be normal lad who just fancies boys, not ott camp like George, we need to see that
I agree, also I like the Trevor/JP scenes. I think that would be a interesting friendship.
It would be interesting to explore what happened in Finn's head to make him what he is now. Since psychopaths don't tend to be sensitive and write poems and save frogs (they tend to torture them) as children, Finn doesn't seem to be a proper psychopath. But something clearly went wrong, and it would be interesting to try and understand what (again, I don't see HO bothering with this, though).
I know Keith wanted to do that. I can have a go if you like.
Okay - the old Finn from what I have heard was gentle and sensitive according to others but he is more or less a loner. Diane, Tony and the twins are a complete unit without him and have their hands full with his troublemaking sister Sinead, work etc. Usually parents are supposed to spend time with their children, getting to know them, building up a relationship, teaching them right from wrong etc but in Finn's case this clearly didn't happen. Finn is more or less isolated. Even Sinead has friends/boyfriends but Finn doesn't. I also believe that Finn had hidden genetic tendencies towards violence, being easily led and was to some extent mentally unstable (or had a chemical imbalance in the brain).
Then Finn meets Robbie Roscoe. Robbie Roscoe comes from a fairly supportive family with some older half brothers, a mother and a twin he is close to. Though the old Robbie was homophobic and an obnoxious bully, he is not mentally unstable or easily led. Though he too may have been violent in the past, he lacks the kind of fascination that Finn has with violence. Robbie sees Finn is a loner and takes him under his wing. The old Robbie more or less brainwashed Finn into becoming homophobic and Finn believed that he needed to be tough like Robbie to get anywhere.
Now I believe everyone to some extent can be a little attracted to power and control. We hear of women being attracted to powerful, charismatic men. We hear of people enjoying being in positions of authority at work. Bullying and blackmail are common forms of having power over others. Rape and stalking are extreme cases of using power and control. Although the old Robbie was a bully, this was ultimately a front - deep down he was a good person. He probably had good relationships with his family (particularly Jason) from a young age and spent a lot of time with them in a way that Finn couldn't. Finn probably felt he didn't have any control over his life - that everyone around him were making decisions for him.
Finn's violent tendencies start to come out - he punches JP, pours food over him etc though Robbie too was involved to some extent at that time. Unfortunately Diane doesn't teach Finn that his actions are wrong. She protects him from the consequences by begging JP to keep quiet. While she expresses disappointment in Finn and says Robbie is a bad influence on him, she takes no steps to correct his behaviour - she has her hands full with Sinead and the twins and Tony is busy with work. Then Finn has an idea. He's fed up of not having power and control so he decides with Robbie's help to rob Tony's safe. He is interrupted. Nana McQueen catches him and he gives her a savage beating, putting her in hospital and shocking Robbie in the process.
When JP discovers that Finn was the person to attack Nana, Robbie is concerned that Finn will drag him down with him and sends Finn to keep JP quiet. I believe at this point Finn still feared going to prison. He resented JP and Nana for having the power to punish him for his actions so he wanted to stop them. He resented the law for having the power to punish him but at the same time he feared the law (at this point anyway). At this point he is no more than a violent bully and as JP and Tony rightly said, bullies are cowards. Finn argues with JP and hits him with the statue in a moment of anger. Now poor JP is lying helpless on the floor. At this point, Finn could have left but JP still has the power to turn him in for attacking Nana.
Finn is angry with JP, wants power and control and wants to stop JP reporting him to the police, so he chooses to rape him. I believe that committing the rape made him experience feelings that he should never have felt. He was already unbalanced, brainwashed and violent. Now he has committed a heinous crime and only he knows about it. He thinks even Robbie won't understand because Robbie has never done anything like that so he tell Robbie about the statue but not the rape. Robbie is annoyed but covers for Finn. Finn sees JP driven home in a police car and realises JP tried to report him. He destroys the evidence by burning his clothes. He lies to Tony and Diane. He has all the power because only he knows what he has done.
The next day it's obvious that JP didn't report him so he continues to exert his power over poor JP and tortures him. Though he takes steps to avoid being apprehended by the law like burning his clothes, he has now lost his fear of the law. as JP rightly says, Finn is sick. He has lost any empathy, compassion and sensitivity he ever had as a result of committing a horrific crime and getting away with it. When he is in hospital, he uses Robbie - persuading Robbie to bully JP in his place but things take an unexpected turn. JP lashes out at Robbie, landing him in hospital. Robbie considers coming clean to the police so Finn threatens him, rousing Robbie's suspicions. When Robbie works out the truth, it's obvious he is sickened and horrified which means in Finn's eyes Robbie is "weak" and "just like everyone else".
I do think John Paul should have some friends other than Nancy, who obviously isn't the friend he needs right now. Trevor could be a good choice as they could get along (despite the few run ins they've had). Maybe Maxine or Blessing would be good too as they wouldn't judge him.
Yep. They made a big deal about him turning 30 in 2012 and then last year he conveniently turned 30 again so Sienna could steal Nancy's present to him.
While I thought the JP/Nana scenes were poignant and well acted, I agree with this.
We have been waiting 8 months for this moment, for JP to finally open up about his ordeal, for him to share his feelings on the matter, etc. But then the reveal comes, and the focus keeps being shifted to other people's traumas (Nancy, Nana).
I expected Nana to be distraught over JP going through something so horrible and for her to finally be all over him and desperate to help him, but no, they had to come up with the previously unrevealed fact that she has been raped too in her youth, as if she couldn't understand and be there for JP if she hadn't gone through the same thing herself.
They are also lessening the impact of the horror that happened to JP since, no big deal, everyone else in his family has gone through the same thing.
Will someone please just put JP first for a minute, ignoring their own baggage??
I really hope we see more aftermath in the next episodes (I am afraid of another blackhole looming at the horizon), and that more focus is given to JP and his feelings.
And also, JP needs new friends. I'm tired of him being stuck with Nancy. I want new and better friends for him! Kirkwood, you have a huge cast... make it happen!
I totally agree with JP needs some real friends someone he can talk to and share with. I'm sorry but I don't care much for Nana and her story. I want to hear about JP he only had that one scene with Ste when he told him what happened which I thought was OK but I was hoping they would build on that. Unfortunately since then I have no idea with JP is going though and what he is feeling, he just seemed like an extra on the show. And it feels like his storyline is going to be falling to the background even more with Nancy and Nana being attacked and Fin being arrested. I get the feeling they will focus more on Fin and Robbie than JP.
I know Keith wanted to do that. I can have a go if you like.
Okay - the old Finn from what I have heard was gentle and sensitive according to others but he is more or less a loner. Diane, Tony and the twins are a complete unit without him and have their hands full with his troublemaking sister Sinead, work etc. Usually parents are supposed to spend time with their children, getting to know them, building up a relationship, teaching them right from wrong etc but in Finn's case this clearly didn't happen. Finn is more or less isolated. Even Sinead has friends/boyfriends but Finn doesn't. I also believe that Finn had hidden genetic tendencies towards violence, being easily led and was to some extent mentally unstable (or had a chemical imbalance in the brain).
Then Finn meets Robbie Roscoe. Robbie Roscoe comes from a fairly supportive family with some older half brothers, a mother and a twin he is close to. Though the old Robbie was homophobic and an obnoxious bully, he is not mentally unstable or easily led. Though he too may have been violent in the past, he lacks the kind of fascination that Finn has with violence. Robbie sees Finn is a loner and takes him under his wing. The old Robbie more or less brainwashed Finn into becoming homophobic and Finn believed that he needed to be tough like Robbie to get anywhere.
Now I believe everyone to some extent can be a little attracted to power and control. We hear of women being attracted to powerful, charismatic men. We hear of people enjoying being in positions of authority at work. Bullying and blackmail are common forms of having power over others. Rape and stalking are extreme cases of using power and control. Although the old Robbie was a bully, this was ultimately a front - deep down he was a good person. He probably had good relationships with his family (particularly Jason) from a young age and spent a lot of time with them in a way that Finn couldn't. Finn probably felt he didn't have any control over his life - that everyone around him were making decisions for him.
Finn's violent tendencies start to come out - he punches JP, pours food over him etc though Robbie too was involved to some extent at that time. Unfortunately Diane doesn't teach Finn that his actions are wrong. She protects him from the consequences by begging JP to keep quiet. While she expresses disappointment in Finn and says Robbie is a bad influence on him, she takes no steps to correct his behaviour - she has her hands full with Sinead and the twins and Tony is busy with work. Then Finn has an idea. He's fed up of not having power and control so he decides with Robbie's help to rob Tony's safe. He is interrupted. Nana McQueen catches him and he gives her a savage beating, putting her in hospital and shocking Robbie in the process.
When JP discovers that Finn was the person to attack Nana, Robbie is concerned that Finn will drag him down with him and sends Finn to keep JP quiet. I believe at this point Finn still feared going to prison. He resented JP and Nana for having the power to punish him for his actions so he wanted to stop them. He resented the law for having the power to punish him but at the same time he feared the law (at this point anyway). At this point he is no more than a violent bully and as JP and Tony rightly said, bullies are cowards. Finn argues with JP and hits him with the statue in a moment of anger. Now poor JP is lying helpless on the floor. At this point, Finn could have left but JP still has the power to turn him in for attacking Nana.
Finn is angry with JP, wants power and control and wants to stop JP reporting him to the police, so he chooses to rape him. I believe that committing the rape made him experience feelings that he should never have felt. He was already unbalanced, brainwashed and violent. Now he has committed a heinous crime and only he knows about it. He thinks even Robbie won't understand because Robbie has never done anything like that so he tell Robbie about the statue but not the rape. Robbie is annoyed but covers for Finn. Finn sees JP driven home in a police car and realises JP tried to report him. He destroys the evidence by burning his clothes. He lies to Tony and Diane. He has all the power because only he knows what he has done.
The next day it's obvious that JP didn't report him so he continues to exert his power over poor JP and tortures him. Though he takes steps to avoid being apprehended by the law like burning his clothes, he has now lost his fear of the law. as JP rightly says, Finn is sick. He has lost any empathy, compassion and sensitivity he ever had as a result of committing a horrific crime and getting away with it. When he is in hospital, he uses Robbie - persuading Robbie to bully JP in his place but things take an unexpected turn. JP lashes out at Robbie, landing him in hospital. Robbie considers coming clean to the police so Finn threatens him, rousing Robbie's suspicions. When Robbie works out the truth, it's obvious he is sickened and horrified which means in Finn's eyes Robbie is "weak" and "just like everyone else".
I'll do the second half later.
The following day, Finn wants to repair his friendship with Robbie but Robbie naturally refuses to be friends with a sick rapist. When Finn describes the rape, a sickened Robbie is naturally unable to relate (who in their right mind can?) Robbie ends the friendship and switches to JP's side, apologising to him.
Now Robbie is a danger to Finn's freedom but Finn also knows Robbie is cowardly and self centred. Finn threatens to implicate Robbie as he knows Robbie can't prove his innocence and it works. Robbie's guilt and remorse lead him to apologise to JP and make an effort to change his ways - Robbie is probably also desperate to prove he's nothing like Finn. In the end, Robbie reaps the benefits of being kind, compassionate and hard working. He does well in his exams, grows close to Phoebe and Nancy, and his dad comes into his life. Finn starts to fancy Phoebe and is attracted to her but is now incapable of love. He tries to drug Robbie out of jealousy so Robbie will make an idiot of himself but ends up drugging Patrick instead. Phoebe tricks him into a confession so he locks her in a classroom and intimidates her into keeping quiet.
Now that Phoebe has seen Finn's true colours and is dating Robbie, Finn loses interest in her. When JP comes out of prison and makes it clear that he knows the truth about the statements and won't be bullied any more, Finn exerts his power by bullying and blackmailing Ste and exposing his Cocaine habit to Tony. Now Finn probably wants to relive what he felt when he attacked JP which is why he starts downloading the violent content onto his laptop - it's easy for him to pull the wool over Tony and Diane's eyes as he lives with them but when Sinead moves back in, she notices at once that Finn has changed. Obviously Finn needs to hide his true nature from his family, hence him snapping at Sinead for finding out his secrets and demanding a lock on his door.
Finn turns his attentions to Blessing. He fancies her but obviously doesn't love her as he no longer knows what love means. To him, love is now control/possession (the way it is with Patrick, exceptt Finn is worse). When Finn discovers Blessing is transgender he obviously feels cheated and blames her for it - that combined with all the prejudice he seems to have absorbed leads to him "punishing" her by beating her up, filming it to relive the experience. Now he's truly sociopathic if not psychopathic (psychopaths are born and sociopaths are made). Obviously when Sinead discovers this, he blames her. He now doesn't care about anyone but himself which was why he could swear on the twins lives that he didn't beat up Blessing when he did. As Robbie has ended their friendship, he now has no qualms about blaming Blessing's beating on Robbie to avoid being thrown out but luckily for Robbie, Nancy gives him an alibi.
When Tony sees Finn's true colours he tries to do the right thing by reporting him for Blessing's attack but Diane lies for him so again Finn avoids the consequences and thinks he is invincible. Most people care about others and feel a sense of responsibility towards them - they learn as Robbie did the meaning and benefits of kindness, compassion etc but not Finn. Most people also both know and fear the consequences of committing crime and have a lot to lose by doing so (freedom, reputation, family, friendship, certain careers) - this no longer applies to Finn because he has withdrawn into himself too much. He wears a mask and uses superficial charm to cover his true nature and pull the wool over Diane's eyes in particular. He is also volatile. Changes in external situations can change his mood and behaviour. Though he thinks he is in control, actually things that happen to him start to control him.
When Amber returns he thinks he has a chance to have his own family but, like Patrick he needs to be in control. No doubt he would have been very controlling of his daughter if he had his wish, and Amber too - he would have been jealous and abused her like Patrick did Maxine. In fact in Finn's case, it's worse because he's a sick, twisted rapist. When Amber tries to leave and Nancy intervenes, Finn becomes angry. He thinks Nancy has taken away his chance at a family life and wishes to punish her. When Diane reveals that Amber used him, Finn shows his violent side by smashing the fruit bowl - Nancy then further angers him by saying he's acting like a child so he tries to get the power and control back and to "punish Nancy". Luckily for Nancy, Phoebe interrupts him and he has to leave.
He manages to go home unseen and goes straight into the shower to destroy the evidence but this time he is careless and forgets abut the aftershave. When Diane returns home, he puts on an act, turns on the charm and manipulates her. Diane tries at long last to spend time with her son but it's too late as he is already a monster. When Robbie storms over to confront him, Finn doesn't bother putting on an act because Robbie knows the truth. He is instead his usual arrogant, cocky self. He frightens Robbie by threatening to harm Phoebe, using Robbie's love for her to his advantage. He's completely smug when Nancy wrongly has Robbie arrested - he now has a convenient scapegoat whom few will trust due to his track record, while he himself can walk free.
Finn is now so used to lying, that he lies to Phoebe quite easily though she has her suspicions and can see through him. When Nancy works out the truth, he manages to turn everyone against her, rationalising away her gut instinct by saying many guys wear aftershave etc but JP finally speaks up. He initially tries to lie and pin the blame on Robbie but is cornered when Nancy, JP and Robbie all tell the police the truth and it all makes sense. The police see his true colours and when he is arrested and charged with his crimes he no longer cares as he has nothing more to lose. He has lost all sense of humanity and has become exactly like a sociopath or even a robot which is why he lay on his cell bed without feeling anything at all, without even caring.
The change in Finn happened gradually over time. He fed off the power and control of his reign of terror which over time destroyed anything good that he had in him in the first place.
Well, what do you think Francy? That's my stab at what you wanted.
I'm sorry but I don't care much for Nana and her story.
Yeah, I know they had Nana tell her story to show that many people have been through the same thing and connect with him, but it seemed like a very strange response to hearing someone else (whether a family member or not) got raped.
"I've been raped."
"Oh, too bad! Let me tell you about all the hardships I went through in the past..."
Yeah, I know they had Nana tell her story to show that many people have been through the same thing and connect with him, but it seemed like a very strange response to hearing someone else (whether a family member or not) got raped.
"I've been raped."
"Oh, too bad! Let me tell you about all the hardships I went through in the past..."
Exactly! I find it odd when they are trying to do a male rape storyline they need to bring in other attempted rapes and other rape stories. But whenever I see a soap do a female rape storyline....there is no need to have other rape or attempted rape storylies being told or going on at the same time. There is not the element of:
"I've been raped."
"Oh, too bad! Let me tell you about all the hardships I went through in the past..."
For me I think that all the time they used with Nana, Nancy and their rape stories, they could have put that time to better use and instead really go in depth with JP and his story.
This is the 3rd time that a male rape storyline has been done on a soap.(That I know of) I wish I saw the 1st one on Hollyoaks but I didn't. The storyline on GH was great compared to here. I just hope now that JP has spoken up they will at least treat the aftermath better than what we have seen so far. I almost feel as if they starved us from JP so much that any scene he is in we are just happy to see him and not paying too much attention to how he is being portrayed.
Exactly! I find it odd when they are trying to do a male rape storyline they need to bring in other attempted rapes and other rape stories. But whenever I see a soap do a female rape storyline....there is no need to have other rape or attempted rape storylies being told or going on at the same time. There is not the element of:
"I've been raped."
"Oh, too bad! Let me tell you about all the hardships I went through in the past..."
For me I think that all the time they used with Nana, Nancy and their rape stories, they could have put that time to better use and instead really go in depth with JP and his story.
This is the 3rd time that a male rape storyline has been done on a soap.(That I know of) I wish I saw the 1st one on Hollyoaks but I didn't. The storyline on GH was great compared to here. I just hope now that JP has spoken up they will at least treat the aftermath better than what we have seen so far. I almost feel as if they starved us from JP so much that any scene he is in we are just happy to see him and not paying too much attention to how he is being portrayed.
Pobol Y Cwm did a male rape storyline in 2011 so there are 4. I saw the one on GH. I don't entirely agree with your assessment of that being much better. I guess in some ways it was more consistent. But what I remember of that storyline is that it took 6 months for the victim to speak up, only after he came to the rescue of a woman who was almost raped. He never really got justice he rapist was killed in prison by his uncle so there was never the dilemma of needed to report to the police.
Pobol Y Cwm was equally mixed the rapist was never punish the victim never spoke up. He sexually acted out and was blamed for spreading an STD he might of gotten from being raped and was driven from the village. The rapist was never punished. There was a storyline where a women was raped shortly after where the rapist did go to prison.
I think HO is actually following in the same sort of vein. Perhaps HO has been less consistent and more sensational in places but they are definitely following well established tropes and stereotypes.
I loved Robbie's scenes showing his vulnerability and remorse. Obviously he behaved disgustingly earlier in the storyline but he's clearly changed a lot since then and bitterly regrets his behaviour. The bit where he told Phoebe he was a coward was really touching. He should still be punished for the awful things he did, but I can't help warming to him.
That awful "man enough for both of us" line from Nancy was disappointing and unfair, but she was also kind at the same time; saying how sorry she was that JP had suffered so horribly even while she was shocked, upset and angry at him. Given how she felt she could have been far crueller to him.
The nana scene was good, but I agree that it's just another thing to detract attention from JP's ordeal. Uneccessary addition imo.
I think Phoebe had gone very wayward with the dreadful Vincent storyline but she's much more interesting again after the last few episodes. I like that it was her who saved Nancy from Finn.
I absolutely hate Diane and her sanctimonious hypocrisy, sticking the boot into everyone (especially their parenting) and playing judge and jury when her own kids are vile. I still felt really sorry for her when she was reading Finn's poem though, that was very sad.
I agree a JP/Trevor friendship would be a winner, their scenes together so far have been charming. Good (non sexual) chemistry there.
God, Finn's eyes at the end were so creepy I actually shuddered.
That awful "man enough for both of us" line from Nancy was disappointing and unfair, but she was also kind at the same time; saying how sorry she was that JP had suffered so horribly even while she was shocked, upset and angry at him. Given how she felt she could have been far crueller to him.
I see that, but I also think her saying the JP had months to get over it was pretty unfair as well. I know within the context of the show her reaction makes sense, but I wish Hollyoaks didn't feel the need to have a character who was raped feel even worse about himself than he would already be feeling because of the attack. That seems like overkill and a really negative portrayal of what specifically they claimed would be about breaking the silence around male rape. Shaming a rape victim's masculinity seems to go against that claim pretty severely.
I loved Robbie's scenes showing his vulnerability and remorse. Obviously he behaved disgustingly earlier in the storyline but he's clearly changed a lot since then and bitterly regrets his behaviour. The bit where he told Phoebe he was a coward was really touching. He should still be punished for the awful things he did, but I can't help warming to him.
That awful "man enough for both of us" line from Nancy was disappointing and unfair, but she was also kind at the same time; saying how sorry she was that JP had suffered so horribly even while she was shocked, upset and angry at him. Given how she felt she could have been far crueller to him.
The nana scene was good, but I agree that it's just another thing to detract attention from JP's ordeal. Uneccessary addition imo.
I think Phoebe had gone very wayward with the dreadful Vincent storyline but she's much more interesting again after the last few episodes. I like that it was her who saved Nancy from Finn.
I absolutely hate Diane and her sanctimonious hypocrisy, sticking the boot into everyone (especially their parenting) and playing judge and jury when her own kids are vile. I still felt really sorry for her when she was reading Finn's poem though, that was very sad.
I agree a JP/Trevor friendship would be a winner, their scenes together so far have been charming. Good (non sexual) chemistry there.
God, Finn's eyes at the end were so creepy I actually shuddered.
I'm glad you're warming to Robbie.
I agree about Finn - I thought he looked exactly like a psychopath/sociopath. Robbie's right. Finn is sick.
I'm not sure JP and Trevor would be suited even as friends. I'd prefer JP to be friends with Blessing or Maxine or maybe Darren, since Darren was more understanding.
As for JP/Nana scene, though it did seem unexpected and unnecessary, it is sometimes good to talk to someone who has been through the same thing. I remember that I liked the Stella/Carla scenes when Stella admitted to Carla she had also been raped but the JP/Nana scenes should have been shorter and the police interviews longer.
I rewatched the scene with Marlena and I just wanted to comment on James's acting at the end of it. The vulnerability he showed during the "seize life" line was so powerful and so so realistic. He really has done superbly well.
Yeah, JP is too much on the campish side now (the way he flirts, even the tone of voice has changed... JP used to speak with a lower tone in his first stint, and have more of a laddish behaviour). Nothing wrong with a person being camp; but that's just not who JP was supposed to be.
??? JP was never a lad. He is a MCQueen so of course he was never a goody-two shoes. I wouldn't call his manner then or now camp.
Comments
I did and I think the way JP has acted throughout it was better as Luke cried a lot but he was younger than JP was and he was gang raped. I was only a teenager myself when that storyline was on.
Does anyone else think JP should get new friends instead? Possibly Blessing as she is non judgemental.
I really wish I watched that storyline. I've heard people say it was handled a lot more realistically and sensitively than the JP storyline. The aftermath and the last two episodes have been the only proper good episodes. IMO the rest has been incredibly mediocre.
Definitely agree with the last bit, it's moments like this I realise JP really does deserve better. I think a friendship with someone like Blessing, Trevor or Maxine could be really interesting. I'd like to see JP have some male friends. Shame they dropped the Joe/JP thing last year. I think it could have been interesting.
They are very different characters, Luke was a popular footballer who all the girls liked, JP is a shy gay teacher and a father and the main bread winner in the household
I did think joe and JP were going to be mates, and that was a nice idea, so we could see them being lads, JP was always meant to be normal lad who just fancies boys, not ott camp like George, we need to see that
Yeah, JP is too much on the campish side now (the way he flirts, even the tone of voice has changed... JP used to speak with a lower tone in his first stint, and have more of a laddish behaviour). Nothing wrong with a person being camp; but that's just not who JP was supposed to be.
The Luke storyline was good, its hard to remember but it probably was handled much better and also the issue itself was probably had a lot less exposure than it does now - which is hard to believe because it hardly has any now. But it was the first time i'd ever heard of male rape and I learned a lot from that storyline.
I have the episode Luke finally tells someone what happened (his brother Adam) on tape somewhere. I must try to find it one day.
I think JP is uncomfortable with his masculinity at the moment. The more aggressive assertive side of it I think is making him a bit uncomfortable. Because they have consistently shown that every time he tries to take some of the power back he gets punished in some way.
But I noticed the change soon after he came back, way before the rape.... already when he was with Doug or even before.
I guess James has subtly changed his way of playing him, consciously or unconsciously.
I agree, also I like the Trevor/JP scenes. I think that would be a interesting friendship.
Haha! Tony and I have the same birthday. :cool:
I'm all for a Trevor/JP friendship. Grace can be there for Marlena in her coming episodes and Trevor can be there for JP. Yay!
Lol the 2nd time?
I guess he was a bit lost with the break up from Craig, and that makes you question things and act odd
Doug was a strange relationship, I think he was being what doug wanted,
Still very alpha with Ste before the rape, would happily punch him
I know Keith wanted to do that. I can have a go if you like.
Okay - the old Finn from what I have heard was gentle and sensitive according to others but he is more or less a loner. Diane, Tony and the twins are a complete unit without him and have their hands full with his troublemaking sister Sinead, work etc. Usually parents are supposed to spend time with their children, getting to know them, building up a relationship, teaching them right from wrong etc but in Finn's case this clearly didn't happen. Finn is more or less isolated. Even Sinead has friends/boyfriends but Finn doesn't. I also believe that Finn had hidden genetic tendencies towards violence, being easily led and was to some extent mentally unstable (or had a chemical imbalance in the brain).
Then Finn meets Robbie Roscoe. Robbie Roscoe comes from a fairly supportive family with some older half brothers, a mother and a twin he is close to. Though the old Robbie was homophobic and an obnoxious bully, he is not mentally unstable or easily led. Though he too may have been violent in the past, he lacks the kind of fascination that Finn has with violence. Robbie sees Finn is a loner and takes him under his wing. The old Robbie more or less brainwashed Finn into becoming homophobic and Finn believed that he needed to be tough like Robbie to get anywhere.
Now I believe everyone to some extent can be a little attracted to power and control. We hear of women being attracted to powerful, charismatic men. We hear of people enjoying being in positions of authority at work. Bullying and blackmail are common forms of having power over others. Rape and stalking are extreme cases of using power and control. Although the old Robbie was a bully, this was ultimately a front - deep down he was a good person. He probably had good relationships with his family (particularly Jason) from a young age and spent a lot of time with them in a way that Finn couldn't. Finn probably felt he didn't have any control over his life - that everyone around him were making decisions for him.
Finn's violent tendencies start to come out - he punches JP, pours food over him etc though Robbie too was involved to some extent at that time. Unfortunately Diane doesn't teach Finn that his actions are wrong. She protects him from the consequences by begging JP to keep quiet. While she expresses disappointment in Finn and says Robbie is a bad influence on him, she takes no steps to correct his behaviour - she has her hands full with Sinead and the twins and Tony is busy with work. Then Finn has an idea. He's fed up of not having power and control so he decides with Robbie's help to rob Tony's safe. He is interrupted. Nana McQueen catches him and he gives her a savage beating, putting her in hospital and shocking Robbie in the process.
When JP discovers that Finn was the person to attack Nana, Robbie is concerned that Finn will drag him down with him and sends Finn to keep JP quiet. I believe at this point Finn still feared going to prison. He resented JP and Nana for having the power to punish him for his actions so he wanted to stop them. He resented the law for having the power to punish him but at the same time he feared the law (at this point anyway). At this point he is no more than a violent bully and as JP and Tony rightly said, bullies are cowards. Finn argues with JP and hits him with the statue in a moment of anger. Now poor JP is lying helpless on the floor. At this point, Finn could have left but JP still has the power to turn him in for attacking Nana.
Finn is angry with JP, wants power and control and wants to stop JP reporting him to the police, so he chooses to rape him. I believe that committing the rape made him experience feelings that he should never have felt. He was already unbalanced, brainwashed and violent. Now he has committed a heinous crime and only he knows about it. He thinks even Robbie won't understand because Robbie has never done anything like that so he tell Robbie about the statue but not the rape. Robbie is annoyed but covers for Finn. Finn sees JP driven home in a police car and realises JP tried to report him. He destroys the evidence by burning his clothes. He lies to Tony and Diane. He has all the power because only he knows what he has done.
The next day it's obvious that JP didn't report him so he continues to exert his power over poor JP and tortures him. Though he takes steps to avoid being apprehended by the law like burning his clothes, he has now lost his fear of the law. as JP rightly says, Finn is sick. He has lost any empathy, compassion and sensitivity he ever had as a result of committing a horrific crime and getting away with it. When he is in hospital, he uses Robbie - persuading Robbie to bully JP in his place but things take an unexpected turn. JP lashes out at Robbie, landing him in hospital. Robbie considers coming clean to the police so Finn threatens him, rousing Robbie's suspicions. When Robbie works out the truth, it's obvious he is sickened and horrified which means in Finn's eyes Robbie is "weak" and "just like everyone else".
I'll do the second half later.
Yep. They made a big deal about him turning 30 in 2012 and then last year he conveniently turned 30 again so Sienna could steal Nancy's present to him.
I totally agree with JP needs some real friends someone he can talk to and share with. I'm sorry but I don't care much for Nana and her story. I want to hear about JP he only had that one scene with Ste when he told him what happened which I thought was OK but I was hoping they would build on that. Unfortunately since then I have no idea with JP is going though and what he is feeling, he just seemed like an extra on the show. And it feels like his storyline is going to be falling to the background even more with Nancy and Nana being attacked and Fin being arrested. I get the feeling they will focus more on Fin and Robbie than JP.
The following day, Finn wants to repair his friendship with Robbie but Robbie naturally refuses to be friends with a sick rapist. When Finn describes the rape, a sickened Robbie is naturally unable to relate (who in their right mind can?) Robbie ends the friendship and switches to JP's side, apologising to him.
Now Robbie is a danger to Finn's freedom but Finn also knows Robbie is cowardly and self centred. Finn threatens to implicate Robbie as he knows Robbie can't prove his innocence and it works. Robbie's guilt and remorse lead him to apologise to JP and make an effort to change his ways - Robbie is probably also desperate to prove he's nothing like Finn. In the end, Robbie reaps the benefits of being kind, compassionate and hard working. He does well in his exams, grows close to Phoebe and Nancy, and his dad comes into his life. Finn starts to fancy Phoebe and is attracted to her but is now incapable of love. He tries to drug Robbie out of jealousy so Robbie will make an idiot of himself but ends up drugging Patrick instead. Phoebe tricks him into a confession so he locks her in a classroom and intimidates her into keeping quiet.
Now that Phoebe has seen Finn's true colours and is dating Robbie, Finn loses interest in her. When JP comes out of prison and makes it clear that he knows the truth about the statements and won't be bullied any more, Finn exerts his power by bullying and blackmailing Ste and exposing his Cocaine habit to Tony. Now Finn probably wants to relive what he felt when he attacked JP which is why he starts downloading the violent content onto his laptop - it's easy for him to pull the wool over Tony and Diane's eyes as he lives with them but when Sinead moves back in, she notices at once that Finn has changed. Obviously Finn needs to hide his true nature from his family, hence him snapping at Sinead for finding out his secrets and demanding a lock on his door.
Finn turns his attentions to Blessing. He fancies her but obviously doesn't love her as he no longer knows what love means. To him, love is now control/possession (the way it is with Patrick, exceptt Finn is worse). When Finn discovers Blessing is transgender he obviously feels cheated and blames her for it - that combined with all the prejudice he seems to have absorbed leads to him "punishing" her by beating her up, filming it to relive the experience. Now he's truly sociopathic if not psychopathic (psychopaths are born and sociopaths are made). Obviously when Sinead discovers this, he blames her. He now doesn't care about anyone but himself which was why he could swear on the twins lives that he didn't beat up Blessing when he did. As Robbie has ended their friendship, he now has no qualms about blaming Blessing's beating on Robbie to avoid being thrown out but luckily for Robbie, Nancy gives him an alibi.
When Tony sees Finn's true colours he tries to do the right thing by reporting him for Blessing's attack but Diane lies for him so again Finn avoids the consequences and thinks he is invincible. Most people care about others and feel a sense of responsibility towards them - they learn as Robbie did the meaning and benefits of kindness, compassion etc but not Finn. Most people also both know and fear the consequences of committing crime and have a lot to lose by doing so (freedom, reputation, family, friendship, certain careers) - this no longer applies to Finn because he has withdrawn into himself too much. He wears a mask and uses superficial charm to cover his true nature and pull the wool over Diane's eyes in particular. He is also volatile. Changes in external situations can change his mood and behaviour. Though he thinks he is in control, actually things that happen to him start to control him.
When Amber returns he thinks he has a chance to have his own family but, like Patrick he needs to be in control. No doubt he would have been very controlling of his daughter if he had his wish, and Amber too - he would have been jealous and abused her like Patrick did Maxine. In fact in Finn's case, it's worse because he's a sick, twisted rapist. When Amber tries to leave and Nancy intervenes, Finn becomes angry. He thinks Nancy has taken away his chance at a family life and wishes to punish her. When Diane reveals that Amber used him, Finn shows his violent side by smashing the fruit bowl - Nancy then further angers him by saying he's acting like a child so he tries to get the power and control back and to "punish Nancy". Luckily for Nancy, Phoebe interrupts him and he has to leave.
He manages to go home unseen and goes straight into the shower to destroy the evidence but this time he is careless and forgets abut the aftershave. When Diane returns home, he puts on an act, turns on the charm and manipulates her. Diane tries at long last to spend time with her son but it's too late as he is already a monster. When Robbie storms over to confront him, Finn doesn't bother putting on an act because Robbie knows the truth. He is instead his usual arrogant, cocky self. He frightens Robbie by threatening to harm Phoebe, using Robbie's love for her to his advantage. He's completely smug when Nancy wrongly has Robbie arrested - he now has a convenient scapegoat whom few will trust due to his track record, while he himself can walk free.
Finn is now so used to lying, that he lies to Phoebe quite easily though she has her suspicions and can see through him. When Nancy works out the truth, he manages to turn everyone against her, rationalising away her gut instinct by saying many guys wear aftershave etc but JP finally speaks up. He initially tries to lie and pin the blame on Robbie but is cornered when Nancy, JP and Robbie all tell the police the truth and it all makes sense. The police see his true colours and when he is arrested and charged with his crimes he no longer cares as he has nothing more to lose. He has lost all sense of humanity and has become exactly like a sociopath or even a robot which is why he lay on his cell bed without feeling anything at all, without even caring.
The change in Finn happened gradually over time. He fed off the power and control of his reign of terror which over time destroyed anything good that he had in him in the first place.
Well, what do you think Francy? That's my stab at what you wanted.
Yeah, I know they had Nana tell her story to show that many people have been through the same thing and connect with him, but it seemed like a very strange response to hearing someone else (whether a family member or not) got raped.
"I've been raped."
"Oh, too bad! Let me tell you about all the hardships I went through in the past..."
Exactly! I find it odd when they are trying to do a male rape storyline they need to bring in other attempted rapes and other rape stories. But whenever I see a soap do a female rape storyline....there is no need to have other rape or attempted rape storylies being told or going on at the same time. There is not the element of:
"I've been raped."
"Oh, too bad! Let me tell you about all the hardships I went through in the past..."
For me I think that all the time they used with Nana, Nancy and their rape stories, they could have put that time to better use and instead really go in depth with JP and his story.
This is the 3rd time that a male rape storyline has been done on a soap.(That I know of) I wish I saw the 1st one on Hollyoaks but I didn't. The storyline on GH was great compared to here. I just hope now that JP has spoken up they will at least treat the aftermath better than what we have seen so far. I almost feel as if they starved us from JP so much that any scene he is in we are just happy to see him and not paying too much attention to how he is being portrayed.
Pobol Y Cwm did a male rape storyline in 2011 so there are 4. I saw the one on GH. I don't entirely agree with your assessment of that being much better. I guess in some ways it was more consistent. But what I remember of that storyline is that it took 6 months for the victim to speak up, only after he came to the rescue of a woman who was almost raped. He never really got justice he rapist was killed in prison by his uncle so there was never the dilemma of needed to report to the police.
Pobol Y Cwm was equally mixed the rapist was never punish the victim never spoke up. He sexually acted out and was blamed for spreading an STD he might of gotten from being raped and was driven from the village. The rapist was never punished. There was a storyline where a women was raped shortly after where the rapist did go to prison.
I think HO is actually following in the same sort of vein. Perhaps HO has been less consistent and more sensational in places but they are definitely following well established tropes and stereotypes.
That awful "man enough for both of us" line from Nancy was disappointing and unfair, but she was also kind at the same time; saying how sorry she was that JP had suffered so horribly even while she was shocked, upset and angry at him. Given how she felt she could have been far crueller to him.
The nana scene was good, but I agree that it's just another thing to detract attention from JP's ordeal. Uneccessary addition imo.
I think Phoebe had gone very wayward with the dreadful Vincent storyline but she's much more interesting again after the last few episodes. I like that it was her who saved Nancy from Finn.
I absolutely hate Diane and her sanctimonious hypocrisy, sticking the boot into everyone (especially their parenting) and playing judge and jury when her own kids are vile. I still felt really sorry for her when she was reading Finn's poem though, that was very sad.
I agree a JP/Trevor friendship would be a winner, their scenes together so far have been charming. Good (non sexual) chemistry there.
God, Finn's eyes at the end were so creepy I actually shuddered.
I see that, but I also think her saying the JP had months to get over it was pretty unfair as well. I know within the context of the show her reaction makes sense, but I wish Hollyoaks didn't feel the need to have a character who was raped feel even worse about himself than he would already be feeling because of the attack. That seems like overkill and a really negative portrayal of what specifically they claimed would be about breaking the silence around male rape. Shaming a rape victim's masculinity seems to go against that claim pretty severely.
I'm glad you're warming to Robbie.
I agree about Finn - I thought he looked exactly like a psychopath/sociopath. Robbie's right. Finn is sick.
I'm not sure JP and Trevor would be suited even as friends. I'd prefer JP to be friends with Blessing or Maxine or maybe Darren, since Darren was more understanding.
As for JP/Nana scene, though it did seem unexpected and unnecessary, it is sometimes good to talk to someone who has been through the same thing. I remember that I liked the Stella/Carla scenes when Stella admitted to Carla she had also been raped but the JP/Nana scenes should have been shorter and the police interviews longer.
??? JP was never a lad. He is a MCQueen so of course he was never a goody-two shoes. I wouldn't call his manner then or now camp.