When I think of JP in scenes with Finn. JP mainly looks away & never really keeps eye contact with Finn for long. Since the rape they have talked to each other many times & JP can't really bear to look at him for long & seems to always look elsewhere even when talking to him & I do think this is due to his shame & embarrassment that he was raped by him. So one of the things I would really like to see is for JP to look directly into Finn's eyes until Finn has to look away in shame & take some of that power back just like Nana McQueen did with her rapist!
You would expect so. When the male rape storyline was first mentioned & we were told Finn would be the rapist loads of people on DS questioned how a smaller younger Finn could overpower JP.
Also, how do you think Finn is going to plead? Spoilers suggest his plea is surprising which makes it sound to me like he pleads guilty. If he does, do you know what happens next in the law courts? Would JP still have to publically say in court what happened to him or would witness statements be enough? Also do you know from the plea how long it would take till sentencing is made & also how long youth offenders could get for this type of crime as Finn is only 16?
I am not sure what will happen, you would think the surprising plea would be guilty. I never did criminal law. But I do know this if he is charged, that will mean that CPS has determined on an independent examination that there is evidence support a greater likelihood than not that a conviction will be achieved in that case. So when you plead guilty you are accepting the rape as fact no longer something that would have to be proved. Which is what victims fear.
Ok here are the CPS sentencing guidelines on rape:
Sentencing
If the defendant is convicted of rape, the judge decides the sentence. There are guidelines for judges when sentencing defendants convicted of rape. The prosecution does not have any power to ask for a particular sentence.
The prosecuting advocate has a duty actively to assist the judge with the law and guidelines on sentencing including any other orders that may be available to the court.
The guidelines state that relationship and acquaintance rapes should be treated by the courts as seriously as stranger rape. Male rapes are as serious as those between a man and a woman. All types of rape are equally serious.
We will make sure that the court has all the information it needs to sentence appropriately. If there is a Victim Personal Statement, we will advise the court of it so that it can help the court to understand the effect of the crime upon the victim. In this way we will ensure that the court is able to come to an informed decision regarding sentence. (For details of Victim Personal Statements, see paragraph 5.24.)
Before being sentenced, a defendant is entitled to make a plea in mitigation. We will challenge defence mitigation which is misleading, untrue or which unfairly attacks the victim's character.
If the defendant pleads guilty to an offence but disagrees with the prosecution version of events, the court has to decide on which version to sentence. In order to do this, the court may hold a 'Newton hearing', The court will only hold such a hearing if it feels that there would be a substantial difference in sentence if the defendant were to be sentenced on the prosecution's version of events. If the court considers that there would be no substantial difference to sentence, the defendant is sentenced on his version of events.
If, however, the court feels that it would make a substantial difference to sentence, the court can hear evidence from both parties and can make a decision based on representations from both the defence and the prosecution. At the end of the hearing, the judge must announce whether the prosecution has proved its version of events beyond reasonable doubt.
If the judge passes a sentence which the prosecution considers to be unduly lenient because it does not reflect the seriousness of the offence, the CPS wiII ask the Attorney General to review the sentence.
If the prosecution does not consider the sentence unduly lenient but the victim disagrees, the victim can ask the Attorney General to consider it, but this has to be done within 28 days of the sentencing decision. If the CPS decides not to submit the case for the consideration of the Attorney General, it must notify the victim without delay so that the victim's option of complaining directly to the Attorney General is preserved, and so that the Attorney General has sufficient time to consider the case.
If the Attorney General thinks that the sentence is unduly lenient, the Attorney General can refer it to the Court of Appeal.
The application to the Court of Appeal must be made within 28 days of the sentence. The Court of Appeal decides whether or not the sentence is unduly lenient and, if it is, whether to increase the sentence.
We will, through the Witness Care Unit (or other single point of contact, for example, a police officer), keep victims informed of any appeals by the defence against conviction and sentence (see section 6 of the Code of Practice for Victims of Crime). The Witness Care Unit or the police will also inform victims if a defendant is granted bail following a successful application for leave to appeal, or where an appeal is granted.
I am not sure what will happen, you would think the surprising plea would be guilty. I never did criminal law. But I do know this if he is charged, that will mean that CPS has determined on an independent examination that there is evidence support a greater likelihood than not that a conviction will be achieved in that case. So when you plead guilty you are accepting the rape as fact no longer something that would have to be proved, so you would no longer as a victim face an adversarial process. Which is what victims fear.
Thanks for that!
I must say when I read about Finn's surprising plea; I didn't know what to think because I would have expected him to fight for his innocence to the bitter end! For him to actually plead guilty I think something else must really happen for him to do that. If more people come forward against him maybe his lawyer tells him he has no real chance & should try & get a lighter sentence. Maybe Diane questions him & tells him if he does the right thing she will stick by him either way & won’t abandon him. I personally would prefer him to plead not guilty as most rapists do, then to be found guilty & have him crying & screaming as he is taken down! I would find that more satisfying than him plea bargaining for a lighter sentence.
I must say when I read about Finn's surprising plea; I didn't know what to think because I would have expected him to fight for his innocence to the bitter end! For him to actually plead guilty I think something else must really happen for him to do that. If more people come forward against him maybe his lawyer tells him he has no real chance & should try & get a lighter sentence. Maybe Diane questions him & tells him if he does the right thing she will stick by him either way & won’t abandon him. I personally would prefer him to plead not guilty as most rapists do, then to be found guilty & have him crying & screaming as he is taken down! I would find that more satisfying than him plea bargaining for a lighter sentence.
I was surprised that Finn was questioned without a solicitor considering what a serious charge it was and how upset Diane was. I wonder they did the DNA swab with JP if comes back with Finn's DNA is that what causes Finn to change his mind.
On your question on young offenders if the young offender has been determined to have committed a "grave crime" then the rules are a bit different, harsher. Rape is considered a "grave crime".
I am not sure what will happen, you would think the surprising plea would be guilty. I never did criminal law. But I do know this if he is charged, that will mean that CPS has determined on an independent examination that there is evidence support a greater likelihood than not that a conviction will be achieved in that case. So when you plead guilty you are accepting the rape as fact no longer something that would have to be proved. Which is what victims fear.
Ok here are the CPS sentencing guidelines on rape:
Sentencing
If the defendant is convicted of rape, the judge decides the sentence. There are guidelines for judges when sentencing defendants convicted of rape. The prosecution does not have any power to ask for a particular sentence.
The prosecuting advocate has a duty actively to assist the judge with the law and guidelines on sentencing including any other orders that may be available to the court.
The guidelines state that relationship and acquaintance rapes should be treated by the courts as seriously as stranger rape. Male rapes are as serious as those between a man and a woman. All types of rape are equally serious.
We will make sure that the court has all the information it needs to sentence appropriately. If there is a Victim Personal Statement, we will advise the court of it so that it can help the court to understand the effect of the crime upon the victim. In this way we will ensure that the court is able to come to an informed decision regarding sentence. (For details of Victim Personal Statements, see paragraph 5.24.)
Before being sentenced, a defendant is entitled to make a plea in mitigation. We will challenge defence mitigation which is misleading, untrue or which unfairly attacks the victim's character.
If the defendant pleads guilty to an offence but disagrees with the prosecution version of events, the court has to decide on which version to sentence. In order to do this, the court may hold a 'Newton hearing', The court will only hold such a hearing if it feels that there would be a substantial difference in sentence if the defendant were to be sentenced on the prosecution's version of events. If the court considers that there would be no substantial difference to sentence, the defendant is sentenced on his version of events.
If, however, the court feels that it would make a substantial difference to sentence, the court can hear evidence from both parties and can make a decision based on representations from both the defence and the prosecution. At the end of the hearing, the judge must announce whether the prosecution has proved its version of events beyond reasonable doubt.
If the judge passes a sentence which the prosecution considers to be unduly lenient because it does not reflect the seriousness of the offence, the CPS wiII ask the Attorney General to review the sentence.
If the prosecution does not consider the sentence unduly lenient but the victim disagrees, the victim can ask the Attorney General to consider it, but this has to be done within 28 days of the sentencing decision. If the CPS decides not to submit the case for the consideration of the Attorney General, it must notify the victim without delay so that the victim's option of complaining directly to the Attorney General is preserved, and so that the Attorney General has sufficient time to consider the case.
If the Attorney General thinks that the sentence is unduly lenient, the Attorney General can refer it to the Court of Appeal.
The application to the Court of Appeal must be made within 28 days of the sentence. The Court of Appeal decides whether or not the sentence is unduly lenient and, if it is, whether to increase the sentence.
We will, through the Witness Care Unit (or other single point of contact, for example, a police officer), keep victims informed of any appeals by the defence against conviction and sentence (see section 6 of the Code of Practice for Victims of Crime). The Witness Care Unit or the police will also inform victims if a defendant is granted bail following a successful application for leave to appeal, or where an appeal is granted.
Thanks for going to all that trouble of finding the additional information for me. really appreciated!
So basically if Finn pleads Guilty, but disputes the other party's version of events & if the court agrees to hear Finn out. Witnesses may still be called in. I really do think that Finn would want to pin a lot of it on Robbie so maybe that is how it will go!
I was surprised that Finn was questioned without a solicitor considering what a serious charge it was and how upset Diane was. I wonder they did the DNA swab with JP if comes back with Finn's DNA is that what causes Finn to change his mind.
On your question on young offenders if the young offender has been determined to have committed a "grave crime" then the rules are a bit different, harsher. Rape is considered a "grave crime".
Good point about the swab. Maybe they do find Finn's DNA. Finn never knew that JP went to the rape clinic on that night, so if he does find that out he may see that he has no alternative but to admit it, but I still think he would challenge the other parties version of events & want to bring Robbie down as well as he previously promised to do!
Or maybe the surprise is that JP finds out that there is Finn's DNA on that swab & he has evidence & Finn is made aware of that so they all think that Finn will have to admit it & plead guilty but he doesn't!
What do you mean somewhere?!?! Clashing patterns and bow ties are fashionable everywhere!!! :D Although not everyone can pull it off as amazingly as George does
I'm going to be honest,I have had a bad week, been really low, and you lot have seriously cracked me up.
I think George should, do a fashion show using Patrick and seinna as models
I was watching law and order svu earlier and they tried to claim a male rape victim was a hate crime against homosexuals, I wonder if they will do that here, add charges to make it a hate crime, from the bullying etc they could
On Finns plee, I would assume he pleads guilty to one not the other, so there is a court trial,I would guess he would accept Nancy not JP as the homophobia would be too much for him
I'm going to be honest,I have had a bad week, been really low, and you lot have seriously cracked me up.
I think George should, do a fashion show using Patrick and seinna as models
Glad we could help ;-)
A fashion show definitely needs to happen. Although who needs Patrick and Sienna when you have the amazing George?!?! I think suggesting someone else is very insulting Chelsea!! :D:p
A fashion show definitely needs to happen. Although who needs Patrick and Sienna when you have the amazing George?!?! I think suggesting someone else is very insulting Chelsea!! :D:p
George can create outfits for Patrick, would be lovely
Thinking about Nancy and her rant to JP about how him not telling the truth was damaging to her, didn't she do exactly the same to Darren, she married him having not told him the truth about her and rick, let's hope this comes out at the trial, he dumps her and she has no where to go as she just turned her back on her only friend
Thinking about Nancy and her rant to JP about how him not telling the truth was damaging to her, didn't she do exactly the same to Darren, she married him having not told him the truth about her and rick, let's hope this comes out at the trial, he dumps her and she has no where to go as she just turned her back on her only friend
And JP would still be there for her because he is the bigger person.
I am not sure what will happen, you would think the surprising plea would be guilty. I never did criminal law. But I do know this if he is charged, that will mean that CPS has determined on an independent examination that there is evidence support a greater likelihood than not that a conviction will be achieved in that case. So when you plead guilty you are accepting the rape as fact no longer something that would have to be proved. Which is what victims fear.
Ok here are the CPS sentencing guidelines on rape:
Sentencing
If the defendant is convicted of rape, the judge decides the sentence. There are guidelines for judges when sentencing defendants convicted of rape. The prosecution does not have any power to ask for a particular sentence.
The prosecuting advocate has a duty actively to assist the judge with the law and guidelines on sentencing including any other orders that may be available to the court.
The guidelines state that relationship and acquaintance rapes should be treated by the courts as seriously as stranger rape. Male rapes are as serious as those between a man and a woman. All types of rape are equally serious.
We will make sure that the court has all the information it needs to sentence appropriately. If there is a Victim Personal Statement, we will advise the court of it so that it can help the court to understand the effect of the crime upon the victim. In this way we will ensure that the court is able to come to an informed decision regarding sentence. (For details of Victim Personal Statements, see paragraph 5.24.) Before being sentenced, a defendant is entitled to make a plea in mitigation. We will challenge defence mitigation which is misleading, untrue or which unfairly attacks the victim's character.
If the defendant pleads guilty to an offence but disagrees with the prosecution version of events, the court has to decide on which version to sentence. In order to do this, the court may hold a 'Newton hearing', The court will only hold such a hearing if it feels that there would be a substantial difference in sentence if the defendant were to be sentenced on the prosecution's version of events. If the court considers that there would be no substantial difference to sentence, the defendant is sentenced on his version of events.
If, however, the court feels that it would make a substantial difference to sentence, the court can hear evidence from both parties and can make a decision based on representations from both the defence and the prosecution. At the end of the hearing, the judge must announce whether the prosecution has proved its version of events beyond reasonable doubt.
If the judge passes a sentence which the prosecution considers to be unduly lenient because it does not reflect the seriousness of the offence, the CPS wiII ask the Attorney General to review the sentence.
If the prosecution does not consider the sentence unduly lenient but the victim disagrees, the victim can ask the Attorney General to consider it, but this has to be done within 28 days of the sentencing decision. If the CPS decides not to submit the case for the consideration of the Attorney General, it must notify the victim without delay so that the victim's option of complaining directly to the Attorney General is preserved, and so that the Attorney General has sufficient time to consider the case.
If the Attorney General thinks that the sentence is unduly lenient, the Attorney General can refer it to the Court of Appeal.
The application to the Court of Appeal must be made within 28 days of the sentence. The Court of Appeal decides whether or not the sentence is unduly lenient and, if it is, whether to increase the sentence.
We will, through the Witness Care Unit (or other single point of contact, for example, a police officer), keep victims informed of any appeals by the defence against conviction and sentence (see section 6 of the Code of Practice for Victims of Crime). The Witness Care Unit or the police will also inform victims if a defendant is granted bail following a successful application for leave to appeal, or where an appeal is granted.
It's surprising that mitigation is allowed to be presented for this kind of crime. For ABH or taking a human life perhaps but rape? What possible mitigation could there be for that?
Back on the current story line, Nancy is a teacher, how can she have a honeymoon in term time, all teacher I know are back at school already or return by weds at the latest
Back on the current story line, Nancy is a teacher, how can she have a honeymoon in term time, all teacher I know are back at school already or return by weds at the latest
Good thing you mentioned the Nancy thing. That got me thinking... Who's running Price Slice now that Cindy is missing?!?! I swear a couple of episodes ago, Sienna and Patrick were in there, also I remember Ste being in there buying condoms. I thought Cindy ran the shop and if she isn't, who is?!?! Unless I'm missing something :)
Good thing you mentioned the Nancy thing. That got me thinking... Who's running Price Slice now that Cindy is missing?!?! I swear a couple of episodes ago, Sienna and Patrick were in there, also I remember Ste being in there buying condoms. I thought Cindy ran the shop and if she isn't, who is?!?! Unless I'm missing something :)
That's a very good point, I assume there is someone else working there when she's at the hospital,does sinead work there?
I was surprised that Finn was questioned without a solicitor considering what a serious charge it was and how upset Diane was. I wonder they did the DNA swab with JP if comes back with Finn's DNA is that what causes Finn to change his mind.
On your question on young offenders if the young offender has been determined to have committed a "grave crime" then the rules are a bit different, harsher. Rape is considered a "grave crime".
There was a solicitor there. Tony was also in there as his appropriate adult but there was someone sitting next to him so I am assuming that was his solicitor.
There was a solicitor there. Tony was also in there as his appropriate adult but there was someone sitting next to him so I am assuming that was his solicitor.
I missed that completely that there was someone else there besides Tony. I didn't think I saw a solicitor. I thought that strange with how concerned Diane was. Crap solicitor though for not saying anything when his client was calling a police detective a bitch.
Yes it was a woman with a notepad. I don't think anyone would want to talk to Finn when he was that angry. Diane couldn't be in there with him because she had given him an alibi for the night of the attempted rape.
Comments
I am not sure what will happen, you would think the surprising plea would be guilty. I never did criminal law. But I do know this if he is charged, that will mean that CPS has determined on an independent examination that there is evidence support a greater likelihood than not that a conviction will be achieved in that case. So when you plead guilty you are accepting the rape as fact no longer something that would have to be proved. Which is what victims fear.
Ok here are the CPS sentencing guidelines on rape:
Sentencing
If the defendant is convicted of rape, the judge decides the sentence. There are guidelines for judges when sentencing defendants convicted of rape. The prosecution does not have any power to ask for a particular sentence.
The prosecuting advocate has a duty actively to assist the judge with the law and guidelines on sentencing including any other orders that may be available to the court.
The guidelines state that relationship and acquaintance rapes should be treated by the courts as seriously as stranger rape. Male rapes are as serious as those between a man and a woman. All types of rape are equally serious.
We will make sure that the court has all the information it needs to sentence appropriately. If there is a Victim Personal Statement, we will advise the court of it so that it can help the court to understand the effect of the crime upon the victim. In this way we will ensure that the court is able to come to an informed decision regarding sentence. (For details of Victim Personal Statements, see paragraph 5.24.)
Before being sentenced, a defendant is entitled to make a plea in mitigation. We will challenge defence mitigation which is misleading, untrue or which unfairly attacks the victim's character.
If the defendant pleads guilty to an offence but disagrees with the prosecution version of events, the court has to decide on which version to sentence. In order to do this, the court may hold a 'Newton hearing', The court will only hold such a hearing if it feels that there would be a substantial difference in sentence if the defendant were to be sentenced on the prosecution's version of events. If the court considers that there would be no substantial difference to sentence, the defendant is sentenced on his version of events.
If, however, the court feels that it would make a substantial difference to sentence, the court can hear evidence from both parties and can make a decision based on representations from both the defence and the prosecution. At the end of the hearing, the judge must announce whether the prosecution has proved its version of events beyond reasonable doubt.
If the judge passes a sentence which the prosecution considers to be unduly lenient because it does not reflect the seriousness of the offence, the CPS wiII ask the Attorney General to review the sentence.
If the prosecution does not consider the sentence unduly lenient but the victim disagrees, the victim can ask the Attorney General to consider it, but this has to be done within 28 days of the sentencing decision. If the CPS decides not to submit the case for the consideration of the Attorney General, it must notify the victim without delay so that the victim's option of complaining directly to the Attorney General is preserved, and so that the Attorney General has sufficient time to consider the case.
If the Attorney General thinks that the sentence is unduly lenient, the Attorney General can refer it to the Court of Appeal.
The application to the Court of Appeal must be made within 28 days of the sentence. The Court of Appeal decides whether or not the sentence is unduly lenient and, if it is, whether to increase the sentence.
We will, through the Witness Care Unit (or other single point of contact, for example, a police officer), keep victims informed of any appeals by the defence against conviction and sentence (see section 6 of the Code of Practice for Victims of Crime). The Witness Care Unit or the police will also inform victims if a defendant is granted bail following a successful application for leave to appeal, or where an appeal is granted.
Thanks for that!
I must say when I read about Finn's surprising plea; I didn't know what to think because I would have expected him to fight for his innocence to the bitter end! For him to actually plead guilty I think something else must really happen for him to do that. If more people come forward against him maybe his lawyer tells him he has no real chance & should try & get a lighter sentence. Maybe Diane questions him & tells him if he does the right thing she will stick by him either way & won’t abandon him. I personally would prefer him to plead not guilty as most rapists do, then to be found guilty & have him crying & screaming as he is taken down! I would find that more satisfying than him plea bargaining for a lighter sentence.
I was surprised that Finn was questioned without a solicitor considering what a serious charge it was and how upset Diane was. I wonder they did the DNA swab with JP if comes back with Finn's DNA is that what causes Finn to change his mind.
On your question on young offenders if the young offender has been determined to have committed a "grave crime" then the rules are a bit different, harsher. Rape is considered a "grave crime".
Thanks for going to all that trouble of finding the additional information for me. really appreciated!
So basically if Finn pleads Guilty, but disputes the other party's version of events & if the court agrees to hear Finn out. Witnesses may still be called in. I really do think that Finn would want to pin a lot of it on Robbie so maybe that is how it will go!
Good point about the swab. Maybe they do find Finn's DNA. Finn never knew that JP went to the rape clinic on that night, so if he does find that out he may see that he has no alternative but to admit it, but I still think he would challenge the other parties version of events & want to bring Robbie down as well as he previously promised to do!
Or maybe the surprise is that JP finds out that there is Finn's DNA on that swab & he has evidence & Finn is made aware of that so they all think that Finn will have to admit it & plead guilty but he doesn't!
I'm going to be honest,I have had a bad week, been really low, and you lot have seriously cracked me up.
I think George should, do a fashion show using Patrick and seinna as models
On Finns plee, I would assume he pleads guilty to one not the other, so there is a court trial,I would guess he would accept Nancy not JP as the homophobia would be too much for him
Glad we could help
A fashion show definitely needs to happen. Although who needs Patrick and Sienna when you have the amazing George?!?! I think suggesting someone else is very insulting Chelsea!!
George can create outfits for Patrick, would be lovely
Proof of how great Nancy is to JP see how she reacts compared to Ste http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1cze9d_jp-in-ho-24-february-2014_shortfilms
I wanted to add this to the earlier post
JP being a friend for Nancy http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18kdim_jp-in-ho-19-december-2013_shortfilms 3.30 onwards though it's near enough constant loads of examples I could post
Another example http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x15qzjb_jp-in-ho-10-october-2013_shortfilms
And JP would still be there for her because he is the bigger person.
It's surprising that mitigation is allowed to be presented for this kind of crime. For ABH or taking a human life perhaps but rape? What possible mitigation could there be for that?
To quote Tony to Diane: ''It's the best thing about you but it's also the worst''. I think JP could do so much better..
I think he should defo model though
I think Tegan should help design these clothes as well
Yes!!!
This chat got me thinking about this http://youtu.be/V4iLTaFNG50
Back on the current story line, Nancy is a teacher, how can she have a honeymoon in term time, all teacher I know are back at school already or return by weds at the latest
Good thing you mentioned the Nancy thing. That got me thinking... Who's running Price Slice now that Cindy is missing?!?! I swear a couple of episodes ago, Sienna and Patrick were in there, also I remember Ste being in there buying condoms. I thought Cindy ran the shop and if she isn't, who is?!?! Unless I'm missing something
That's a very good point, I assume there is someone else working there when she's at the hospital,does sinead work there?
There was a solicitor there. Tony was also in there as his appropriate adult but there was someone sitting next to him so I am assuming that was his solicitor.
I missed that completely that there was someone else there besides Tony. I didn't think I saw a solicitor. I thought that strange with how concerned Diane was. Crap solicitor though for not saying anything when his client was calling a police detective a bitch.
I don't don't who else could be working there? Cindy always seems to run the place and Holly's too young to be working there by herself..??