I dont have any idea why he chose to say what he said, probably only he will know, despite all our speculating but im also sure that people that are racist all have their own reasons as to why they say/do certain things.
I think some calling him a racist after saying what he did is justified. If I had a rant about homosexuals, calling them derogatory names that you would only ever link to homosexuals, people would view me as being homophobic which would be fair enough. Like i said, it says alot about him that in a fit of anger (or trying to be funny, which ever way it was) he chose to go down that route. The people heckling him seem like they were bang out of order but im sure he could have thrown alot of insults at them without metioning race and as a result offending probably a hell of a lot of people. I dont want to see a man lose his career over it or anything like that, but im afraid he will have to accept that many people will now label him a racist and he has nothing to complain about if people do label him as such even if harsh.
To truly be homophobic you'd have to have conviction in what you're saying of course; I could post up a tirade about '****, pakis and immigrants' and I'd come across as a hateful bigot. I wouldn't believe in what I'm saying, but it'd be an incredible task to convince people of this once the initial damage had been done.
This is the problem he faces. People have fair reason to think him racist now, even if it's not the case. Sadly, it's completely of his own doing.
... I dont want to see a man lose his career over it or anything like that, but im afraid he will have to accept that many people will now label him a racist and he has nothing to complain about if people do label him as such even if harsh.
"Stupid is as stupid does." That goes both for Richard and those who jump to conclusions about him.
To truly be homophobic you'd have to have conviction in what you're saying of course; I could post up a tirade about '****, pakis and immigrants' and I'd come across as a hateful bigot. I wouldn't believe in what I'm saying, but it'd be an incredible task to convince people of this once the initial damage had been done.
This is the problem he faces. People have fair reason to think him racist now, even if it's not the case. Sadly, it's completely of his own doing.
True, I just dont have any reason to believe that he didnt mean what he said. because he said it , at this moment im more inclined to believe he meant it as opposed to not really meaning it or saying it with conviction only for the pure reason being that he said it.
I actually have never heard of him as i dont watch Seinfield so any judgement i make of him is based on this alone (probably a bit harsh but it is all i have to go on right now).
The main thing that makes me doubt him being a true racist is the fact he's 57 years old and has been in the public eye for many years, yet this is really the first hint at any racist feeling or behaviour.
The main thing that makes me doubt him being a true racist is the fact he's 57 years old and has been in the public eye for many years, yet this is really the first hint at any racist feeling or behaviour.
If it were Jim Davidson it'd be a lot different.
Yeah but do you really truly know someone who you know just because of being on your screens, mainly acting?
Im sure there were many people shocked for example, when Elton John turned out to be gay including the woman he married!
If you dont want to be labelled a racist i think the key is probably not to be racially abusive to others.
Yes, but that's playing by the rules of the hysterical masses. Their opinions don't alter reality. I'm not saying I know with 100% certainty that Richards isn't a racist, but I am saying that the bulk of the evidence suggests he isn't, and the YouTube clip is only a very small part of the available evidence.
Given that most people based their opinion on a 30 second YouTube clip, yes I would say that is jumping to conclusions.
Yes, but that's playing by the rules of the hysterical masses. Their opinions don't alter reality. I'm not saying I know with 100% certainty that Richards isn't a racist, but I am saying that the bulk of the evidence suggests he isn't, and the YouTube clip is only a very small part of the available evidence.
To be fair he has been seen on TV (on film) saying these things and on You Tube, hes hardy been misquoted! So some people might see that as pretty strong evidence to jump to the conclusion that some have.
Whats the evidence that says he isn't? I would say the racist rant is evidence to show that he is! I actually dont know the guy by the way, but he put himself in the public eye and said what he did so can only expect, rightly, people to judge him this way.
Whats the evidence that says he isn't? I would say the racist rant is evidence to show that he is!
As far as we know, this was a completely isolated incident, and it didn't seem like he was lashing out angrily and uncontrollably, but that his outburst was part of getting back at the heckler within the act, but when it went a bit wrong, he panicked and it spiralled out of control. Like I said, having seen several of his stand-up performances and interviews with the guy, I have no reason to believe this was anything other than a moron and a not very talented comedian shooting himself in the foot.
I actually dont know the guy by the way, but he put himself in the public eye and said what he did so can only expect, rightly, people to judge him this way.
As far as we know, this was a completely isolated incident, and it didn't seem like he was lashing out angrily and uncontrollably, but that his outburst was part of getting back at the heckler within the act, but when it went a bit wrong, he panicked and it spiralled out of control. Like I said, having seen several of his stand-up performances and interviews with the guy, I have no reason to believe this was anything other than a moron and a not very talented comedian shooting himself in the foot.
Yes, the hysterical masses.
I dont mind being labelled part of the "hysterical masses" if upon hearing a 30 second highly offensive and racist rant leads me to the conclusion that he may quite possibly be a racist.
Like i keep saying where did all this racist stuff come from inside him to unleash that? If someone is not racist, i can't see that coming out of their mouth no matter what. Maybe he was trying to be funny and maybe he did get carried away but it doesnt take away the fact that he said something which would be construed imo by most people as racist. Its very hard to defend to be honest once you put yourself in that position.
It'd be a shame if he didn't actually re-ignite his near-moribund career and develop a Sarah Silverman (the white Jewish comedian who's married to Jimmy Kimmel who regularly uses the N word and other racial slurs like towel-head, spic and gook), style act out of all this now he's gotten all this publicity out of this, wouldn't it?
I dont mind being labelled part of the "hysterical masses" if upon hearing a 30 second highly offensive and racist rant leads me to the conclusion that he may quite possibly be a racist.
Like i keep saying where did all this racist stuff come from inside him to unleash that? If someone is not racist, i can't see that coming out of their mouth no matter what. Maybe he was trying to be funny and maybe he did get carried away but it doesnt take away the fact that he said something which would be construed imo by most people as racist. Its very hard to defend to be honest once you put yourself in that position.
I'm not defending what he did, I think the guy is a bit of a moron, I just don't take that extra leap an conclude that he's a racist.
Believe it or not, it's not uncommon for people to use racist slurs against black people, purely because it's the most effective weapon, and not because they're actually racists. When they then calm down, apologise and defend themselves with the somewhat trite, but still relevant point that they "have many black friends", the hysterical masses somehow see that as the final nail in the coffin.
There seems to be an extraordinary willingness for certain black people to play the victim and for certain white people to get up on their high horse about these issues, and that's saying nothing about the outright ignorance factor.
Luckily there are people of a more sensible disposition both among black and whites, but those are sadly in a minority, and the fact of the matter is that the majority of people aren't really all that bright, they're slightly paranoid, very emotional, and prone to knee-jerk reactions, and that's why they're the hysterical masses, and they're largely responsible for the mess the world is in these days.
It'd be a shame if he didn't actually re-ignite his near-moribund career and develop a Sarah Silverman (the white Jewish comedian who's married to Jimmy Kimmel who regularly uses the N word and other racial slurs like towel-head, spic and gook), style act out of all this now he's gotten all this publicity out of this, wouldn't it?
No doubt if it had been Chris Rock it would have been oh so hilarious and poignant. :rolleyes:
Racism from any race against another is wrong.
HOWEVER, the main difference in your scenario is that Chris Rock incorporates any "racism" within his act, it's part of the set, and is said in jest. This Michael Richards outburst was clearly very venomous and fuelled with hatred.
In addition, black people being racist against whites (or any other race for that matter) is similar (imo) to a ginger person making jokes aimed at blondes or brunettes. The blondes/brunettes have rarely (if ever) been discriminated against, so there isn't too much offence taken simply because the ginger haired person is the underdog.
Now, I know slavery was years and years ago and most people are over it and we've all moved on etc., etc. but the black race have never used any white racism to opress the white race... therefore white people will never feel the deep offence felt by being called for instance "white trash" as a black person will feel by being called "n igger"... it's been used in the past to oppress. Same with anti-semitism. Jews were killed in their thousands just for being Jews... so great offence is taken at anti-semitic jokes. You just don't go there!
FFS the guy said "...we'd have had you upside down with a fork in your ass" - I mean, what the fk is that?????
You CAN NOT compare that type of racism to Chris Rock's harmless jibes at white folks in his stand-up comedy routines.
That was kind of awkward and uncomfortable, but he seemed sincere, even if he was probably a little surprised himself about what he did.
Yeah - he was sincere about wanting to keep his career! Without that apology he would never have been able to work in Hollywood again - other than to serve burgers.
I'm sure he's sorry and there's the whole debate about black comedians getting away with more. All I know is that had I been in the audience, I'd have walked out.
But let's not forget that making racist comments doesn't necessarily make someone a racist. Ignorant, stupid, vastly insensitive, what have you - but true racism is far, far more than words.
Nope! Sorry to keep going on (you've got me started on this one now) but he IS racist. No two-ways about it!
From the time you're making reference to slavery and forks up asses, in a way to put someone in their place, you know the person speaking is racist. He went on to say "... yeah, you're a brave Mother Fcuker now aren't ya?... you aint nothing but a n igger"... also "yeah... see now that's what happens when you interrupt a white man"!!!
How in god's name can you say he's not racist? Sometimes it takes anger and frustration for people to voice how they really feel. It's never surfaced before because people in Hollywood know how to conduct themselves for the media. simple.
I also read somewhere else that he called one waiter a "dirty Mexican" in a restaurant somewhere.
Ironic thing is, he doesn't look 100% white with that afro-type hair he's got going on.
I'm black and to be honest, I don't give a flying fk what this dude thinks, he's washed up and a nobody and will never factor in my day to day life. It only gets really dangerous once you get to the George Bush, CIA, MI6 and Tony Blair levels. Or street level (i.e. Steven Lawrence) - but Hollywood actors are just regular people. :rolleyes:
Eminem makes music in a genre that's 80 - 90% black and that early nineties demo tape of him throwing around that certain N word and rapping about hating "black bitches" didn't end his career or get him, pardon the pun, black-balled by his peers/labelmates like Dr Dre and 50 Cent.
This little incident will be forgotten within a couple of weeks and will have little negative effect on Richards, ahem, post-Seinfeld career in the long run.
Nope! Sorry to keep going on (you've got me started on this one now) but he IS racist. No two-ways about it!
From the time you're making reference to slavery and forks up asses, in a way to put someone in their place, you know the person speaking is racist. He went on to say "... yeah, you're a brave Mother Fcuker now aren't ya?... you aint nothing but a n igger"... also "yeah... see now that's what happens when you interrupt a white man"!!!
How in god's name can you say he's not racist? Sometimes it takes anger and frustration for people to voice how they really feel.
We simply don't know that he's racist, and since he's said that he isn't, we have at least to consider the other possibilities. He says his job is to push the envelope and that he would have reacted as violently whatever the race of the hecklers. So it is possible he started out trying to "push the envelope" (what a stupid phrase) by comparing the African-American hecklers' situation to those of their forebears in less civilised times, and the "hanging upside down" insult was meant to drive home the idea that black people have been murdered for less in the past.
Then he really flew off the rails and got into the "throw him out - he's a n igger!" tirade - again one could imagine he was referring to the idea that just being black was enough to get someone barred from a white establishment; maybe he was, in his rage, looking for a parallel that wasn't there.
He was clearly incandescent with rage about the heckling and channelled it into a foul, unpleasant direction that he's rightly ashamed of. But it doesn't prove he's a racist.
There's a certain irony in completely ostracising someone in order to teach them about intolerance. But then Americans don't 'get' irony, so let's just line up and slag the country off.
Nope! Sorry to keep going on (you've got me started on this one now) but he IS racist. No two-ways about it!
From the time you're making reference to slavery and forks up asses, in a way to put someone in their place, you know the person speaking is racist. He went on to say "... yeah, you're a brave Mother Fcuker now aren't ya?... you aint nothing but a n igger"... also "yeah... see now that's what happens when you interrupt a white man"!!!
How in god's name can you say he's not racist?
I can't 100% say he is racist, and I can't say he isn't.
I hope he isn't as I would with anybody, and I'm not going to assume he is. There is evidence to suggest it, but it's hardly an everyday situation.
Most of the time there's no smoke without fire. Who knows maybe he grew up in a racist family, or something happened in his life to instill these views but call a spade a spade and be done with it! Talk about denial!... :rolleyes:
Like I said, he's a nobody to me... but it's a topic of discussion so I'm voicing my opinion. He has every right have his racist views if that's what he feels, everyone has that right - Michael Richards, don't go making bogus apologies to save your sh!t career, be man enough to stand by your convictions, - listen so long as you don't use it in public to harm another individual, think what the fcuk you like mate - but once it affects me, then it's a different ball game.
Laughable. There's also a clip going around of Richards playing a black character wearing black make-up, which supposedly proves he's a racist. :rolleyes:
Comments
To truly be homophobic you'd have to have conviction in what you're saying of course; I could post up a tirade about '****, pakis and immigrants' and I'd come across as a hateful bigot. I wouldn't believe in what I'm saying, but it'd be an incredible task to convince people of this once the initial damage had been done.
This is the problem he faces. People have fair reason to think him racist now, even if it's not the case. Sadly, it's completely of his own doing.
True, I just dont have any reason to believe that he didnt mean what he said. because he said it , at this moment im more inclined to believe he meant it as opposed to not really meaning it or saying it with conviction only for the pure reason being that he said it.
I actually have never heard of him as i dont watch Seinfield so any judgement i make of him is based on this alone (probably a bit harsh but it is all i have to go on right now).
Its hardly jumping to conclusions is it?
If you dont want to be labelled a racist i think the key is probably not to be racially abusive to others.
If it were Jim Davidson it'd be a lot different.
Yeah but do you really truly know someone who you know just because of being on your screens, mainly acting?
Im sure there were many people shocked for example, when Elton John turned out to be gay including the woman he married!
Yes, but that's playing by the rules of the hysterical masses. Their opinions don't alter reality. I'm not saying I know with 100% certainty that Richards isn't a racist, but I am saying that the bulk of the evidence suggests he isn't, and the YouTube clip is only a very small part of the available evidence.
To be fair he has been seen on TV (on film) saying these things and on You Tube, hes hardy been misquoted! So some people might see that as pretty strong evidence to jump to the conclusion that some have.
Whats the evidence that says he isn't? I would say the racist rant is evidence to show that he is! I actually dont know the guy by the way, but he put himself in the public eye and said what he did so can only expect, rightly, people to judge him this way.
As far as we know, this was a completely isolated incident, and it didn't seem like he was lashing out angrily and uncontrollably, but that his outburst was part of getting back at the heckler within the act, but when it went a bit wrong, he panicked and it spiralled out of control. Like I said, having seen several of his stand-up performances and interviews with the guy, I have no reason to believe this was anything other than a moron and a not very talented comedian shooting himself in the foot.
Yes, the hysterical masses.
I dont mind being labelled part of the "hysterical masses" if upon hearing a 30 second highly offensive and racist rant leads me to the conclusion that he may quite possibly be a racist.
Like i keep saying where did all this racist stuff come from inside him to unleash that? If someone is not racist, i can't see that coming out of their mouth no matter what. Maybe he was trying to be funny and maybe he did get carried away but it doesnt take away the fact that he said something which would be construed imo by most people as racist. Its very hard to defend to be honest once you put yourself in that position.
Believe it or not, it's not uncommon for people to use racist slurs against black people, purely because it's the most effective weapon, and not because they're actually racists. When they then calm down, apologise and defend themselves with the somewhat trite, but still relevant point that they "have many black friends", the hysterical masses somehow see that as the final nail in the coffin.
There seems to be an extraordinary willingness for certain black people to play the victim and for certain white people to get up on their high horse about these issues, and that's saying nothing about the outright ignorance factor.
Luckily there are people of a more sensible disposition both among black and whites, but those are sadly in a minority, and the fact of the matter is that the majority of people aren't really all that bright, they're slightly paranoid, very emotional, and prone to knee-jerk reactions, and that's why they're the hysterical masses, and they're largely responsible for the mess the world is in these days.
Heh, that would be a pretty bold turnaround
I'm gay and from Wales. Am i racist, sexist or a hypocrite?
Racism from any race against another is wrong.
HOWEVER, the main difference in your scenario is that Chris Rock incorporates any "racism" within his act, it's part of the set, and is said in jest. This Michael Richards outburst was clearly very venomous and fuelled with hatred.
In addition, black people being racist against whites (or any other race for that matter) is similar (imo) to a ginger person making jokes aimed at blondes or brunettes. The blondes/brunettes have rarely (if ever) been discriminated against, so there isn't too much offence taken simply because the ginger haired person is the underdog.
Now, I know slavery was years and years ago and most people are over it and we've all moved on etc., etc. but the black race have never used any white racism to opress the white race... therefore white people will never feel the deep offence felt by being called for instance "white trash" as a black person will feel by being called "n igger"... it's been used in the past to oppress. Same with anti-semitism. Jews were killed in their thousands just for being Jews... so great offence is taken at anti-semitic jokes. You just don't go there!
FFS the guy said "...we'd have had you upside down with a fork in your ass" - I mean, what the fk is that?????
You CAN NOT compare that type of racism to Chris Rock's harmless jibes at white folks in his stand-up comedy routines.
Yeah - he was sincere about wanting to keep his career! Without that apology he would never have been able to work in Hollywood again - other than to serve burgers.
Nope! Sorry to keep going on (you've got me started on this one now) but he IS racist. No two-ways about it!
From the time you're making reference to slavery and forks up asses, in a way to put someone in their place, you know the person speaking is racist. He went on to say "... yeah, you're a brave Mother Fcuker now aren't ya?... you aint nothing but a n igger"... also "yeah... see now that's what happens when you interrupt a white man"!!!
How in god's name can you say he's not racist? Sometimes it takes anger and frustration for people to voice how they really feel. It's never surfaced before because people in Hollywood know how to conduct themselves for the media. simple.
I also read somewhere else that he called one waiter a "dirty Mexican" in a restaurant somewhere.
Ironic thing is, he doesn't look 100% white with that afro-type hair he's got going on.
I'm black and to be honest, I don't give a flying fk what this dude thinks, he's washed up and a nobody and will never factor in my day to day life. It only gets really dangerous once you get to the George Bush, CIA, MI6 and Tony Blair levels. Or street level (i.e. Steven Lawrence) - but Hollywood actors are just regular people. :rolleyes:
This little incident will be forgotten within a couple of weeks and will have little negative effect on Richards, ahem, post-Seinfeld career in the long run.
Then he really flew off the rails and got into the "throw him out - he's a n igger!" tirade - again one could imagine he was referring to the idea that just being black was enough to get someone barred from a white establishment; maybe he was, in his rage, looking for a parallel that wasn't there.
He was clearly incandescent with rage about the heckling and channelled it into a foul, unpleasant direction that he's rightly ashamed of. But it doesn't prove he's a racist.
Why do so few people see this irony!
I can't 100% say he is racist, and I can't say he isn't.
I hope he isn't as I would with anybody, and I'm not going to assume he is. There is evidence to suggest it, but it's hardly an everyday situation.
http://www.tmz.com/2006/11/22/richards-rant-not-the-first-time
Most of the time there's no smoke without fire. Who knows maybe he grew up in a racist family, or something happened in his life to instill these views but call a spade a spade and be done with it! Talk about denial!... :rolleyes:
Like I said, he's a nobody to me... but it's a topic of discussion so I'm voicing my opinion. He has every right have his racist views if that's what he feels, everyone has that right - Michael Richards, don't go making bogus apologies to save your sh!t career, be man enough to stand by your convictions, - listen so long as you don't use it in public to harm another individual, think what the fcuk you like mate - but once it affects me, then it's a different ball game.