Sad about Beth dying,i quite liked her, wish it could have been Carrol instead.
first time i have seen an actor(Emily Kinney), cry on the talking dead....3 times.
This season has been pretty good,the first 2 episodes were fantastic,3 and 4 pretty good,but it went a bit downhill from there for me with the Washington crew and the carol/daryl episode.The mid-season finale was pretty good,i maybe had far too high expectations for it after last years, they were never going to equal that.
Have me established what caused the Teriminus crew to go Cannibal and what was in those flashbacks with them. Is that perhaps not the next threat to Rick & Co.
Have me established what caused the Teriminus crew to go Cannibal and what was in those flashbacks with them. Is that perhaps not the next threat to Rick & Co.
That's all been dealt with.
A group that was allowed into Terminus took over and locked up the original Termites (Gareth and co). It was probably this group that introduced the practice of cannibalism.
Gareth and Co later escaped and killed/captured their captors (the leader was the mad man that Glenn let out of the box car during Rick's group escape).
They vowed to never trust anyone again and took to eating people who followed the signs to Terminus.
I saw this on another forum it echoes my sentiments exactly
For the Writers.....
I would like to first state that I am NOT a Beth or Carol Shipper. However, I am a shipper of a good storyline, one that has been absent as of late. Let's recap what we have seen so far. We have Carol the ex battered wife as MacGyver/Rambo in episode 1. We have Tyreece as Mr.Mom, Glen and Maggie as Mr & Mrs. Smith, Michone has evolved into a glorified babysitter for Judith and Carl. Rick used to see Dead People (Lori), then he in classic Edward Cullen style (Twilight) killed someone by biting his throat. We have seen Daryl cry more tears in one episode then all the cast members put together in all the Seasons. This is the same thing that happened to Sons of Anarchy with the crappy writing.
When did character development become crappy writing? Carol's evolution happened gradually. People who were surprised at her killing the flu people hadn't been paying attention, and anyone surprised at her rescue from Terminus was paying even less. Michonne may have softened and opened up somewhat, but also Rick needed someone to stay with Judith who could deal if something bad happened. Like, for example, the preacher bringing a score of zombies into the church; it was just as well Michonne was there for that.. Rick had a break-down and gradually recovered over the months he spent as farmer. Daryl has got out from under his brother and can be his own man, including showing emotions. None of this is crappy writing.
You evolved Beth's Character into somebody we can respect and root for, from her strength in "Still" and "Alone" to her helping Noah escape, and she dies like that?????
Yes. That's the point. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. Sometimes random stuff happens that could have been avoided. People can get cut off before they attain their potential. Beth let emotion get the better of her; she turned out not to be as bad-ass as she'd thought.
Could none of the SIX officers under Dawns rule kill her? They all said that it was ALL Dawn??
It wasn't all Dawn. Some of it was the cop that tried to rape Beth and got eaten, and some of it was the cop that Beth pushed down the elevator shaft. There were good cops and bad cops. The good cops were planning a coup anyway. That's part of why Dawn felt her situation was precarious: she was losing power, and knew it. The lady cop even offered to deal with Dawn if Rick would let them go. He didn't.
That said, there's a time and a place and firing the first shot during a tense hostage exchange would not have been sensible.
There are valid criticisms of the show, but the chap you are quoting hit none of them.
Sad about Beth dying,i quite liked her, wish it could have been Carrol instead.
first time i have seen an actor(Emily Kinney), cry on the talking dead....3 times.
This season has been pretty good,the first 2 episodes were fantastic,3 and 4 pretty good,but it went a bit downhill from there for me with the Washington crew and the carol/daryl episode.The mid-season finale was pretty good,i maybe had far too high expectations for it after last years, they were never going to equal that.
I'm not in the least bit sad about Beth dying....to me she was a non-entity, a minor character with little or no purpose. Now if it had been Carol instead, I would've been fuming.
Also, I'm sick of hearing about Emily Kinney crying on The Talking Dead because she wasn't ready to leave the show. She was happy to go off when it suited her and pursue her singing career during the show!
I got confused initially when the priest character turned up. I thought we'd seen him before, so maybe he wasn't a real priest. I eventually realised he's the vet in Teen Wolf.
I'm not in the least bit sad about Beth dying....to me she was a non-entity, a minor character with little or no purpose. Now if it had been Carol instead, I would've been fuming!
This! Love Carol. Despite the paring of Daryl and Beth when they split from the prison, it didn't endear me to her. However the bond between Carol and Daryl is palpable.
Personally, I hope she does NOT come back - it would just be ridiculous...... She's dead now, so lets leave it at that!
I liked Beth and hated the way she died but she ain't coming back. I think some (not all) of these are young people that either were Beth's age or had a crush on her. I also don't think some are aware the second half has already been filmed.
Had they not started filming the second half of teh season there would be small chance they could bring her back but not in hell's chance she will come back (unless its a flashback which could explain her being on set very late on in a similar way to Hershel being back in 4x16)
Personally, I would have had Beth stay behind at the hospital to try and make it a better place - therefore some hope rather than gloom and doom all the time plus also it meant that another character other than Morgan and that other chap in Season 1 are the only two characters still alive out there somewhere.
I finally had a chance to catch up and I think it's been an excellent season; carrying on from last season. I like the Carol and Darryl episode; again carrying on from last season where I thought the format was outstanding, allowing for more character insight.
I'm sad to see Beth go; I liked how she developed and her connections to the group. I guess it also adds more threat to the other characters in the show.
I think some (not all) of these are young people that either were Beth's age or had a crush on her.
It's because of the interview she gave on The Talking Dead. It was incredibly heartfelt - tears were shed over how she'd miss all her friends on the show. It was hard not to be touched by it.
Really beginning to dislike Rick at the moment. He's been many things over the seasons but I never had him down as a cop-killer.
There was no need to run him down in the car like that and what did it for me was the way he blew his brains out followed by "shut up".
I liked dawn and thought she was coming round to being the bad girl come good.
I feel the same. But this season seems to be about stupid people doing stupid things. The other theme being 'redemption' & recovering humanity. Carol (especially), Tyresse, Bob, Michonne have all either redeemed them-self or regained/reaffirmed their humanity
Rick has stepped beyond redemption now and is loosing his humanity. Now he isn't really any different to the Governor, Dawn or even the Termites (just a little saner - and therefore more accountable - than them). Doing bad things because he feels they are needed to protect his people. He no longer has Hershall to reign him in. Daryl & Carol can only go so far - Rick excluded Carol from the group and while she was welcomed back, why wouldn't he do it to anyone else in circumstances Rick feels is right? Michonne could maybe. Gleggie perhaps. but really only Carl could reach him and he's only just drawn back from the edge of psychopathy himself.
It'll be interesting to see how it pans of in the second half of the season.
Personally I'd have been happy to see both Beth and Carol die.
Beth brought her death upon herself by stabbing Dawn as she did (stupid girl, why didn't she just count herself lucky to be out and go) and was lucky not to get all the others killed in a shoot out which was narrowly averted.
Really beginning to dislike Rick at the moment. He's been many things over the seasons but I never had him down as a cop-killer.
I'm never quite sure about the timeline of the show, but as far as we can tell, I think it's only been a week or so (in show-time) since the encounter with the biker gang, followed by the events at Terminus and the church, is it really that surprising that Rick has adopted such a brutal "kill or be killed" attitude?! He was talked out of an all-out attack on the hospital, and was treating the hostage cops well (under the circumstances!), only to see one try and escape and refuse to stop when cornered, so as far as he was concerned he had no choice... I'm sure it's something Rick would never have considered not so long ago, but I think that was the point...
Even Rick may look like he is losing humanity, he was right in his original plan to storm the hospital and take back their friends. When he listened to the others and did it their way, it was a disaster!
When you consider what Rick has been thru in the recent past, he is doing a good job to survive and keep his friends and family alive! If this nightmare is ever over, then it would be interesting to see if he can go back--but can any of them?
Really beginning to dislike Rick at the moment. He's been many things over the seasons but I never had him down as a cop-killer.
There was no need to run him down in the car like that and what did it for me was the way he blew his brains out followed by "shut up".
I liked dawn and thought she was coming round to being the bad girl come good.
Rick's been ruthless since the end of season 2 when they escaped the farm and highlighted when they re-grouped. This was at the extreme end but the guy didn't act like a cop in the end; if he'd just stayed then it would all have been fine.
I'm never quite sure about the timeline of the show, but as far as we can tell, I think it's only been a week or so (in show-time) since the encounter with the biker gang, followed by the events at Terminus and the church, is it really that surprising that Rick has adopted such a brutal "kill or be killed" attitude?! He was talked out of an all-out attack on the hospital, and was treating the hostage cops well (under the circumstances!), only to see one try and escape and refuse to stop when cornered, so as far as he was concerned he had no choice... I'm sure it's something Rick would never have considered not so long ago, but I think that was the point...
Exactly. 'Not so long ago' Rick had his humanity intact and was approaching redemption for some of his choices. He had Hershall and a home for him and his children. He showed his humanity and peaceful intent in trying to talk the Governor out of attacking.
Events since then have robbed him of his humanity. The cop was almost a test - could the 'man of peace' Rick Grimes - the police man before the walkers, the farmer from the prison - retain his humanity and redeem himself for his very violent (though understandable, almost even justifiable?) actions at the church. Would he kill a fellow cop, whose only crime was doing his duty to escape and warn his own 'group' of a threat? An unarmed cop in handcuffs that Rick even alone could easily subdue? A man he had no need to kill, who strategically it was ineffective to kill?
And Rick fails.
Not without reason as you point out - it is the way the story and character progresses.
I really enjoyed this episode and thought we had some great moments with Beth, Dawn and Rick - but it did feel a bit like a means to an end, that end being the exit of Beth. It's a shame they decided to kill her; not just because I liked her and was interested to see where she could have slotted in along the wider ensemble now there was no real way she could have gone back to being just child minder and Maggie's sister. It'll be interesting to see the fallout plays out to see her death's long term worth and merit, but I think they just worked towards killing her for an emotional punch, all of her scenes this season seemed working towards that. We hadn't seen much, or enough of her, previously in spotlight for all that character work to mean as much as it could have done, unless played out, which of now course it won't. In the nicest possible way, I hope her death has genuine ramifications on the group. I'm sure it will, no least on Maggie. I know people have criticised the way she's been written as largely ignorant of Beth bar a couple of mentions, but I also thought she was more a 'one thing at a time' person and was vested in finding Glen before moving on to the next thing. I suppose Terminus and nearly being eaten alive was a slight bump in the road and threw plans.
I would have also been interested to see Dawn survive, or at least played out longer. Seeing someone like her outside in the world, having to face it head on as part of her redemption would have been interesting. It would also be good to bring a character out into the cold like that in general. She was awful sometimes, but by the last episode I actually started to warm to her, and would probably be completely okay with a boss like that in general, never mind a zombie apocalypse. Again, I think they short changed character by storyline and needing to hit a button by mid season, but no huge loss compared to remaining talent. It would have made something to have had Beth actually kill her I think, and although it felt right to have Daryl be the one to pull the trigger if someone was to, I can't help but think it might also be a background effort to help balance out scales. Perhaps Rick and him will have a chat, squatting, next half season where they each talking about killing people, then they both calm each other down. Carol, having overheard the whole thing whilst casually reading up on the practicalities of euthanasia, joins them in a group hug. Mary watches from the bushes, smiling, then beams back to the Enterprise. D, I think.
(Horrible ways to end a show number 452. Next week read about how House of Cards ends with Frank being shot with an actual magic bullet. I couldn't resist the temptation to go for the most surreal and ridiculous ending possible if I was the writer on shows like this. Getting the chance to watch many millions of people collectively go "what the........?" would be overpowering. I'd have to stick to parodies.)
I've only just seen this post, but coincidentally was thinking yesterday how funny it would have been to have ended BBC1's 'The Missing' with the revelation that the kid had been abducted by aliens. Just absolutely out of nothing,in the last five minutes of the last episode - just for s**ts and giggles...:D
Really beginning to dislike Rick at the moment. He's been many things over the seasons but I never had him down as a cop-killer.
There was no need to run him down in the car like that and what did it for me was the way he blew his brains out followed by "shut up".
I liked dawn and thought she was coming round to being the bad girl come good.
Do you think Dawn would have demanded Noah back if Rick hadn't killed the cop? The hostage exchange would have been three for three: Carol, Beth and Noah for the three cops. I wonder if part of her demand for Noah was because accepting two for three made her look weak.
Even Rick may look like he is losing humanity, he was right in his original plan to storm the hospital and take back their friends. When he listened to the others and did it their way, it was a disaster!
It should have been more of a disaster if they did it his way. His plan was based on keeping the element of surprise after taking the first two cops. That would have failed because there was a third cop they didn't know about it. As it happened, that cop was stupid enough to try to rescue his friends, despite being massively out-numbered and out-gunned, and apparently without calling it in first as a warning and to get backup, despite them having walkie-talkies for exactly that purpose. Probably if Rick had summarily executed the two cops, the other one would have given up rescuing them and would have called it in. Then Rick would have lost the only advantage he had. If he knew Dawn was fore-warned, he'd be stuck trying to storm an effective fortress. If he didn't know, as seems likely, Dawn would have let him in, trapped him and massacred his party.
The hostage exchange would have worked had they left Noah behind. Or if Beth hadn't got mad and tried to stab Dawn. Even if they had given Noah up, so what? They only just met him. Plus most of the bad cops were dead now (the two worst killed by Beth). Dawn would probably have been deposed soon - the lady cop said so - and then the hospital could have become a good place to be.
Now that Dawn is definitely gone, Rick probably should have stayed. Admittedly he didn't know Eugene was lying at that point, but since Eugene was, they have no reason to go anywhere else.
When you consider what Rick has been thru in the recent past, he is doing a good job to survive and keep his friends and family alive!
To me he's done a much worse job than, say, Dawn, The Governor, or even the Termites. They all had good things going on; not just safe and stable, but rebuilding society.
Comments
first time i have seen an actor(Emily Kinney), cry on the talking dead....3 times.
This season has been pretty good,the first 2 episodes were fantastic,3 and 4 pretty good,but it went a bit downhill from there for me with the Washington crew and the carol/daryl episode.The mid-season finale was pretty good,i maybe had far too high expectations for it after last years, they were never going to equal that.
I'll have to watch the football.........
That's all been dealt with.
A group that was allowed into Terminus took over and locked up the original Termites (Gareth and co). It was probably this group that introduced the practice of cannibalism.
Gareth and Co later escaped and killed/captured their captors (the leader was the mad man that Glenn let out of the box car during Rick's group escape).
They vowed to never trust anyone again and took to eating people who followed the signs to Terminus.
Yes. That's the point. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. Sometimes random stuff happens that could have been avoided. People can get cut off before they attain their potential. Beth let emotion get the better of her; she turned out not to be as bad-ass as she'd thought.
It wasn't all Dawn. Some of it was the cop that tried to rape Beth and got eaten, and some of it was the cop that Beth pushed down the elevator shaft. There were good cops and bad cops. The good cops were planning a coup anyway. That's part of why Dawn felt her situation was precarious: she was losing power, and knew it. The lady cop even offered to deal with Dawn if Rick would let them go. He didn't.
That said, there's a time and a place and firing the first shot during a tense hostage exchange would not have been sensible.
There are valid criticisms of the show, but the chap you are quoting hit none of them.
I'm not in the least bit sad about Beth dying....to me she was a non-entity, a minor character with little or no purpose. Now if it had been Carol instead, I would've been fuming.
Also, I'm sick of hearing about Emily Kinney crying on The Talking Dead because she wasn't ready to leave the show. She was happy to go off when it suited her and pursue her singing career during the show!
This! Love Carol. Despite the paring of Daryl and Beth when they split from the prison, it didn't endear me to her. However the bond between Carol and Daryl is palpable.
I liked Beth and hated the way she died but she ain't coming back. I think some (not all) of these are young people that either were Beth's age or had a crush on her. I also don't think some are aware the second half has already been filmed.
Had they not started filming the second half of teh season there would be small chance they could bring her back but not in hell's chance she will come back (unless its a flashback which could explain her being on set very late on in a similar way to Hershel being back in 4x16)
Personally, I would have had Beth stay behind at the hospital to try and make it a better place - therefore some hope rather than gloom and doom all the time plus also it meant that another character other than Morgan and that other chap in Season 1 are the only two characters still alive out there somewhere.
I'm sad to see Beth go; I liked how she developed and her connections to the group. I guess it also adds more threat to the other characters in the show.
It's because of the interview she gave on The Talking Dead. It was incredibly heartfelt - tears were shed over how she'd miss all her friends on the show. It was hard not to be touched by it.
There was no need to run him down in the car like that and what did it for me was the way he blew his brains out followed by "shut up".
I liked dawn and thought she was coming round to being the bad girl come good.
I feel the same. But this season seems to be about stupid people doing stupid things. The other theme being 'redemption' & recovering humanity. Carol (especially), Tyresse, Bob, Michonne have all either redeemed them-self or regained/reaffirmed their humanity
Rick has stepped beyond redemption now and is loosing his humanity. Now he isn't really any different to the Governor, Dawn or even the Termites (just a little saner - and therefore more accountable - than them). Doing bad things because he feels they are needed to protect his people. He no longer has Hershall to reign him in. Daryl & Carol can only go so far - Rick excluded Carol from the group and while she was welcomed back, why wouldn't he do it to anyone else in circumstances Rick feels is right? Michonne could maybe. Gleggie perhaps. but really only Carl could reach him and he's only just drawn back from the edge of psychopathy himself.
It'll be interesting to see how it pans of in the second half of the season.
Personally I'd have been happy to see both Beth and Carol die.
Beth brought her death upon herself by stabbing Dawn as she did (stupid girl, why didn't she just count herself lucky to be out and go) and was lucky not to get all the others killed in a shoot out which was narrowly averted.
When you consider what Rick has been thru in the recent past, he is doing a good job to survive and keep his friends and family alive! If this nightmare is ever over, then it would be interesting to see if he can go back--but can any of them?
Rick's been ruthless since the end of season 2 when they escaped the farm and highlighted when they re-grouped. This was at the extreme end but the guy didn't act like a cop in the end; if he'd just stayed then it would all have been fine.
Exactly. 'Not so long ago' Rick had his humanity intact and was approaching redemption for some of his choices. He had Hershall and a home for him and his children. He showed his humanity and peaceful intent in trying to talk the Governor out of attacking.
Events since then have robbed him of his humanity. The cop was almost a test - could the 'man of peace' Rick Grimes - the police man before the walkers, the farmer from the prison - retain his humanity and redeem himself for his very violent (though understandable, almost even justifiable?) actions at the church. Would he kill a fellow cop, whose only crime was doing his duty to escape and warn his own 'group' of a threat? An unarmed cop in handcuffs that Rick even alone could easily subdue? A man he had no need to kill, who strategically it was ineffective to kill?
And Rick fails.
Not without reason as you point out - it is the way the story and character progresses.
I would have also been interested to see Dawn survive, or at least played out longer. Seeing someone like her outside in the world, having to face it head on as part of her redemption would have been interesting. It would also be good to bring a character out into the cold like that in general. She was awful sometimes, but by the last episode I actually started to warm to her, and would probably be completely okay with a boss like that in general, never mind a zombie apocalypse. Again, I think they short changed character by storyline and needing to hit a button by mid season, but no huge loss compared to remaining talent. It would have made something to have had Beth actually kill her I think, and although it felt right to have Daryl be the one to pull the trigger if someone was to, I can't help but think it might also be a background effort to help balance out scales. Perhaps Rick and him will have a chat, squatting, next half season where they each talking about killing people, then they both calm each other down. Carol, having overheard the whole thing whilst casually reading up on the practicalities of euthanasia, joins them in a group hug. Mary watches from the bushes, smiling, then beams back to the Enterprise. D, I think.
I've only just seen this post, but coincidentally was thinking yesterday how funny it would have been to have ended BBC1's 'The Missing' with the revelation that the kid had been abducted by aliens. Just absolutely out of nothing,in the last five minutes of the last episode - just for s**ts and giggles...:D
It should have been more of a disaster if they did it his way. His plan was based on keeping the element of surprise after taking the first two cops. That would have failed because there was a third cop they didn't know about it. As it happened, that cop was stupid enough to try to rescue his friends, despite being massively out-numbered and out-gunned, and apparently without calling it in first as a warning and to get backup, despite them having walkie-talkies for exactly that purpose. Probably if Rick had summarily executed the two cops, the other one would have given up rescuing them and would have called it in. Then Rick would have lost the only advantage he had. If he knew Dawn was fore-warned, he'd be stuck trying to storm an effective fortress. If he didn't know, as seems likely, Dawn would have let him in, trapped him and massacred his party.
The hostage exchange would have worked had they left Noah behind. Or if Beth hadn't got mad and tried to stab Dawn. Even if they had given Noah up, so what? They only just met him. Plus most of the bad cops were dead now (the two worst killed by Beth). Dawn would probably have been deposed soon - the lady cop said so - and then the hospital could have become a good place to be.
Now that Dawn is definitely gone, Rick probably should have stayed. Admittedly he didn't know Eugene was lying at that point, but since Eugene was, they have no reason to go anywhere else.
To me he's done a much worse job than, say, Dawn, The Governor, or even the Termites. They all had good things going on; not just safe and stable, but rebuilding society.
Thanks for the info. Until walking dead I never thought I would like I zombie series but this is great
Cliff Curtis(Trauma, Missing, Gang Related) & Kim Dickens(Deadwood, Friday Night Lights, Treme, Sons of Anarchy).
I'm especially pleased to see Kim Dickens in a leading role. She's been a favourite of mine for quite some time.:)
And hopefully Curtis has better luck with this show than his previous ones. All of which were cancelled after the first season.