he allowed tawny to chew gum while he spoke to her. wrong. you have to be strict on every little thing or else you get walked over!
That is so true - I'm always really strict for the first six weeks, every little rule is upheld, no exceptions. By then they've learned what I expect and I can lift the pedal, have fun, be light-hearted day-to-day, but they also know where the lines are and what will happen if they cross them.
What you can't do is go the other way round - start all nicey-nicey and expect to crack down if you don't like what you get. By then you've lost them!
Option 2 is easier, of course, but option 1 is the one that works!
And that is what is wrong with the education system. Back up plan to be a hair dresser, not encouraged to get a career in anything stimulating i.e. financial, law, secretarial or something like that.
The trouble is everyone wants to be on X Factor and become famous even if they don't win.
Or be on a reality show where they can be as bad as they want (e.g. Dee from Benefits Street) and become famous and rich for doing F all.
We never had any of these pastoral care people/home support worker when we went to school... Unfortunately it was a case of coping on our own with stuff.. Maybe this is why some kids are like they are, they've been namby pambied at school.
I'd hardly call looking after the well being of kids in difficult situations rather than letting them get on with it being 'namby pambied'.
And that is what is wrong with the education system. Back up plan to be a hair dresser, not encouraged to get a career in anything stimulating i.e. financial, law, secretarial or something like that.
What if hair dressing is what she likes? What if she hasn't got the grades for the other jobs you mentioned? We still need hair dressers and if that's what she wants to be... The school will push her to achieve what she realistically can, not push her into career paths that are unrealistic for her.
I was quiet at school tbh there wouldnt be much to show if they'd followed me around
Well I don't mean to be blunt but in the context of a TV programme it would be boring. To be fair this show has shown quiet people over its many guises. But you have to be realistic and realise why they don't.
And that is what is wrong with the education system. Back up plan to be a hair dresser, not encouraged to get a career in anything stimulating i.e. financial, law, secretarial or something like that.
I certainly don't recognise that as a description of the education system in Jersey! Can't speak for the mainland, though - haven't taught in a UK school since I did my last TP in 1990.
Well I don't mean to be blunt but in the context of a TV programme it would be boring. To be fair this show has shown quiet people over its many guises. But you have to be realistic and realise why they don't.
I agree with you for a TV show audience I would've be boring I doubt anyone wants to see a teen who listens to her teachers and does her work they want drama.
That is so true - I'm always really strict for the first six weeks, every little rule is upheld, no exceptions. By then they've learned what I expect and I can lift the pedal, have fun, be light-hearted day-to-day, but they also know where the lines are and what will happen if they cross them.
What you can't do is go the other way round - start all nicey-nicey and expect to crack down if you don't like what you get. By then you've lost them!
Option 2 is easier, of course, but option 1 is the one that works!
Exactly and option 1 is so important in a school like that!
It can be tempting to think that being these kids' friend may be of help to them because of their background but actually it's so destructive and makes for chaos. They need someone who is, first and foremost, firm!
I also noticed that once when he was disciplining Tawny he allowed her to have her back to him!
It's actually a good strategy and I speak as someone not a teacher but who is only 3 or 4 years from being at school myself.
Tends to be if the teacher gets the loudest on side, usually they get the whole classes attention because they all follow.
That isn't the case sadly. But I understand how you'd say that, being young myself. But as a teacher I've seen that the "loud, on-side pupil" can flip from being on side to "off-side" just like that. The boundaries can be so blurred.
Did you see when he threw Tawny the ball and it nearly hit her and she jokingly called him an idiot? There is a lot wrong with that. If the ball actually bounced into her face there would be nothing stopping her from calling him a d*ckhead or something worse, and then, as you said, the whole class would follow and the teacher would then be a laughing stock.
That strategy puts the children in the driving seat unfortunately. And when you try to discipline them, there will be the whole, "Ahh Sir/Miss, I thought we were cool?"
And that is what is wrong with the education system. Back up plan to be a hair dresser, not encouraged to get a career in anything stimulating i.e. financial, law, secretarial or something like that.
Education system can't have been up to much in your day either, Tawny was talking to the TV crew, not one of the teachers.
But you want to make some bull$hit point about the 'education system'
As a child who was Problematic to say the least in school.
The one teacher who I always behaved for was the nastiest, strictest, most miserable teacher you could imagine.
But I bloody loved him he was amazing and to this day I owe that man so much gratitude because he didn't allow me to be a nuisance. At the same time though I didn't want to because I respected his teaching abilities.
Because he didn't have to pander to the class by making stuff fun or being a happy go lucky guy.
So when he did make a joke or give us a bit of free reign in a lesson we really appreciated it and it was always good to his stories and see the more human side of such a stern teacher.
In my opinion the nice teachers who want to be your friend or make lessons fun where just seen as soft touches, It was almost like why are you Bowing down to us we are just kids, Then they would wonder why the class would not have any respect or order for them during lessons.
As a child I thrived on discipline, I think its because my parents where quite strict on manners and how to behave so I enjoyed the teachers who were strict because I new how to play that game because its what I put up with at home.
Where as teachers who try to be your best friend I always just saw as a bit pathetic and sad if I am honest.
One teacher used to give out sweets and play music during lessons and himself and I used to clash constantly, I honestly think to this day if he saw me he would probably take a swing for me and I would probably take one at him.
It was really strange everybody else thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread but I just couldn't stand him.
Yet to this day People look at me like I am crackers when I tell them about my favourite teacher so I guess its just up to the individual child as to what you see as good teaching.
Recalling back to my school days large classes where always the problem for a lot of pupils in my class.
we had an hour lesson and only one teacher for a class of 30-40 kids the time the teacher had explained the lesson they never had enough time left to spend even a minute with each child.
The teachers used to spend most of that time sitting using a laptop gossiping with other teachers or Drinking coffee and getting the next lesson prepped.
I was always a problem child all throughout school, I met a lot of good teachers in fact a lot of really good teachers but for every good teacher I met it was evened out by a really bad one.
I had a really great form tutor in year 8 who really I wouldn't say settled me down but certainly understood me, but when she got replaced near the end of year 8 I just went into self destruct mode and by the middle of year 9 I was gone from schooling altogether. Never got a phone call a letter nothing from any authority about where I was or what I was doing..... so I never returned.
The School system is not meant for every child I strongly believe, All my learning I learnt at home from 2great parents who worked full time but taught me how to behave as a person and how taught me the basics I need in life.
My Mum was a Cook and My Father a Electrician I always new from a very young age I was never going to be an academic or Brain surgeon, School to me was always just seen as a gateway for people who want to achieve big dreams and earn lots of money and have nice things...
I never wanted that in fact from the age of around 7 or 8 I was kind of over school.
That is what led to my bad behaviour I think it was purely down to just not fitting in with the conformity and understanding of school life.
My Mum and Dad had great School live so to my sisters so its not like I come from a family of misfits School was just never for me.
They tried teaching assistants, Learning difficulties, Eyesight problems, questioning my parents, doping me up with all these tablets for ADD and A.D.H.D and trust me those things are strong I was like a zombie, none of it worked though I still had the same attitude which was school isn't for me.
a few teachers understood me they was usually the strict ones which no one liked, We used to spend my many hours of detentions talking about it.
Most never understood though they where to busy giving away lollipops for the best homework or talking to the class about what they got up to at the weekend.
I have done ok for myself without school I think, I am never going to be Alan Sugar but have stable job a nice home I can afford the lifestyle I like to lead which is modest but what I want you know.
To echo 123keithy123 (and apologies for not quoting your very interesting post!) it's true (in my experience anyway) that students of any age like to know where the boundaries are. I've taught across the ages from Key Stage 1 for 15 years, to (now) Further Education (teaching students who have previous failed their English GCSE at school) via some time spent teaching Literacy to offenders, and ex-offenders, for the Probation Service.
In all cases it's helped, not hindered, to have rules and boundaries in my teaching environment, be that whole class teaching, small groups or one-to-one. Young children, especially, crave the security of boundaries and knowing what's expected of them in terms of behaviour - total freedom scares them, and yet they are often surrounded by it, able to do what they want, to make their own choices, to demand, and then receive, anything they ask for etc etc. But for a child who is also not secure in their own skin for whatever reason, it only serves to make any behaviour issue worse at school. Teachers can either ignore it, or they can try and impose some sort of regimen that provides the boundaries that - bizarre though this may sound - provides a great deal of 'relief' in terms of that child feeling that someone else is, at last, telling them what to do and how to do it. It's true of learners of any age as well, but it's especially important to lay down these boundaries with young learners so that it becomes just another normal part of their educational experience.
I do have a reputation as being quite 'strict' at work, but I am now working with students who can be very disruptive, so knowing how to deal with very challenging behaviours, and having the confidence to know that the techniques can all transfer to any age of student, has really helped in my relatively new teaching environment. But no one taught me that when I was training.
And that's the problem. I was lucky, if you can call it luck, that I had students who were very challenging in those early days, but when I looked to my Headteacher for help and advice he was useless - he knew even less than me when it came to these things! But I had help from other teachers who worked in specialist units and I worked hard to learn - it was either that or give up!
But I know that too many teachers don't have that 'luck' - and we saw the results of ineffective classroom behaviour management at student teacher level with Mr Bispham last night, and also to some degree, with the senior management team in the school too! I would never talk to the back of someone's head - your students are only listening effectively if they're doing so with eyes and ears!
I'm not sure I'm going to enjoy this as much as I did Educating Yorkshire - so far it's not really 'grabbing' me... but it's early days.
And 123keithy123 - you have a fantastic insight into the key issue from first hand experience. If only more educators could hear your story and have more faith that classroom discipline, when instigated in the right way, far from suffocating learning, enables it to flourish and encourages a respectful, and effective, classroom environment!
Profoundly depressing programme, and a microcosm of everything that has gone wrong with contemporary Britain.
Parents with no respect for anything bringing up kids with no respect for anything. Clueless schools with restricted powers and teachers more concerned about being pals with the kids than teaching them discipline. It was disturbing the way the camera played up the precocious little brat who thinks she is going to be an actress, and nobody with the guts to explain to her that she needs to be able to speak the English language to achieve that.
Don't expect the welfare budget to reduce any time soon. What employer would even consider one of this lot?
It was, however, an accurate picture of Waltham Forest - also a microcosm of everything that has gone wrong with London.
And, Channel 4, Walthamstow is not even remotely "East End". The programme makers are obviously as sloppy as the school.
I not seen it but will watch it on catch up.
I think at times it is the parents fault,about behavour
I seen children saying I want this that(talking about maybe 8 year's plus ) when in shops parent says no ,child says oh I want it saying it loudly parent says ok
There is no please or thank you so it makes teacher's job harder to get respect.
Feel sorry for Acacia, it can't be easy being in her shoes
I did to some extent but to use the excuse of her mums illness for posting the nude Facebook pic was a bit lame
I'd have thought her mum being so sick would have taken her mind off causing trouble
She got atitude written all over her face
And as a previous poster said Tawney was an irritant
Hubby saw that and was absolutely horrified.. He's going to ring up the headmistress, at the school, where he's a governor at and see how she took to the show... I imagine the air might be a bit blue down the phone..lol
Hubby, yuk, what an absolutely appalling word, so 1950s, my husband would quite rightly open divorce proceedings if I ever used it, still, no chance of me doing that, but I digress.
If your husband is a school governor, and is in contact with the headmistress, perhaps together, they could facilitate an evening class in written English for you.
I'm reasonably sure that it would have been better to write; "The headmistress of the school, at which he is a governor, and ask what she thought of the programme."
Hubby, yuk, what an absolutely appalling word, so 1950s, my husband would quite rightly open divorce proceedings if I ever used it, still, no chance of me doing that, but I digress.
If your husband is a school governor, and is in contact with the headmistress, perhaps together, they could facilitate an evening class in written English for you.
I'm reasonably sure that it would have been better to write; "The headmistress of the school, at which he is a governor, and ask what she thought of the programme."
Blimey there's no need to get in such a twist over my grammar.. I wrote quickly and sometimes I do not proof read what I write, especially if I am in a hurry and want to get something written out.. Or should that be typed out if we are being that precise...
Comments
That is so true - I'm always really strict for the first six weeks, every little rule is upheld, no exceptions. By then they've learned what I expect and I can lift the pedal, have fun, be light-hearted day-to-day, but they also know where the lines are and what will happen if they cross them.
What you can't do is go the other way round - start all nicey-nicey and expect to crack down if you don't like what you get. By then you've lost them!
Option 2 is easier, of course, but option 1 is the one that works!
The trouble is everyone wants to be on X Factor and become famous even if they don't win.
Or be on a reality show where they can be as bad as they want (e.g. Dee from Benefits Street) and become famous and rich for doing F all.
You sound a bit nasty there. Seriously, she's just a 14 year old girl.
10 years this year teaching computer science.
I'd hardly call looking after the well being of kids in difficult situations rather than letting them get on with it being 'namby pambied'.
What if hair dressing is what she likes? What if she hasn't got the grades for the other jobs you mentioned? We still need hair dressers and if that's what she wants to be... The school will push her to achieve what she realistically can, not push her into career paths that are unrealistic for her.
It's actually a good strategy and I speak as someone not a teacher but who is only 3 or 4 years from being at school myself.
Tends to be if the teacher gets the loudest on side, usually they get the whole classes attention because they all follow.
Probably because they see them as 'boring'.
I was quiet at school tbh there wouldnt be much to show if they'd followed me around
Well I don't mean to be blunt but in the context of a TV programme it would be boring. To be fair this show has shown quiet people over its many guises. But you have to be realistic and realise why they don't.
Did they show the policeman patrolling outside when the kids go home?
LOL That's what I was thinking when she said she wanted to be a Hairdresser.
I certainly don't recognise that as a description of the education system in Jersey! Can't speak for the mainland, though - haven't taught in a UK school since I did my last TP in 1990.
I agree with you for a TV show audience I would've be boring
Exactly and option 1 is so important in a school like that!
It can be tempting to think that being these kids' friend may be of help to them because of their background but actually it's so destructive and makes for chaos. They need someone who is, first and foremost, firm!
I also noticed that once when he was disciplining Tawny he allowed her to have her back to him!
That isn't the case sadly. But I understand how you'd say that, being young myself. But as a teacher I've seen that the "loud, on-side pupil" can flip from being on side to "off-side" just like that. The boundaries can be so blurred.
Did you see when he threw Tawny the ball and it nearly hit her and she jokingly called him an idiot? There is a lot wrong with that. If the ball actually bounced into her face there would be nothing stopping her from calling him a d*ckhead or something worse, and then, as you said, the whole class would follow and the teacher would then be a laughing stock.
That strategy puts the children in the driving seat unfortunately. And when you try to discipline them, there will be the whole, "Ahh Sir/Miss, I thought we were cool?"
Education system can't have been up to much in your day either, Tawny was talking to the TV crew, not one of the teachers.
But you want to make some bull$hit point about the 'education system'
The one teacher who I always behaved for was the nastiest, strictest, most miserable teacher you could imagine.
But I bloody loved him he was amazing and to this day I owe that man so much gratitude because he didn't allow me to be a nuisance. At the same time though I didn't want to because I respected his teaching abilities.
Because he didn't have to pander to the class by making stuff fun or being a happy go lucky guy.
So when he did make a joke or give us a bit of free reign in a lesson we really appreciated it and it was always good to his stories and see the more human side of such a stern teacher.
In my opinion the nice teachers who want to be your friend or make lessons fun where just seen as soft touches, It was almost like why are you Bowing down to us we are just kids, Then they would wonder why the class would not have any respect or order for them during lessons.
As a child I thrived on discipline, I think its because my parents where quite strict on manners and how to behave so I enjoyed the teachers who were strict because I new how to play that game because its what I put up with at home.
Where as teachers who try to be your best friend I always just saw as a bit pathetic and sad if I am honest.
One teacher used to give out sweets and play music during lessons and himself and I used to clash constantly, I honestly think to this day if he saw me he would probably take a swing for me and I would probably take one at him.
It was really strange everybody else thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread but I just couldn't stand him.
Yet to this day People look at me like I am crackers when I tell them about my favourite teacher so I guess its just up to the individual child as to what you see as good teaching.
Recalling back to my school days large classes where always the problem for a lot of pupils in my class.
we had an hour lesson and only one teacher for a class of 30-40 kids the time the teacher had explained the lesson they never had enough time left to spend even a minute with each child.
The teachers used to spend most of that time sitting using a laptop gossiping with other teachers or Drinking coffee and getting the next lesson prepped.
I was always a problem child all throughout school, I met a lot of good teachers in fact a lot of really good teachers but for every good teacher I met it was evened out by a really bad one.
I had a really great form tutor in year 8 who really I wouldn't say settled me down but certainly understood me, but when she got replaced near the end of year 8 I just went into self destruct mode and by the middle of year 9 I was gone from schooling altogether. Never got a phone call a letter nothing from any authority about where I was or what I was doing..... so I never returned.
The School system is not meant for every child I strongly believe, All my learning I learnt at home from 2great parents who worked full time but taught me how to behave as a person and how taught me the basics I need in life.
My Mum was a Cook and My Father a Electrician I always new from a very young age I was never going to be an academic or Brain surgeon, School to me was always just seen as a gateway for people who want to achieve big dreams and earn lots of money and have nice things...
I never wanted that in fact from the age of around 7 or 8 I was kind of over school.
That is what led to my bad behaviour I think it was purely down to just not fitting in with the conformity and understanding of school life.
My Mum and Dad had great School live so to my sisters so its not like I come from a family of misfits
They tried teaching assistants, Learning difficulties, Eyesight problems, questioning my parents, doping me up with all these tablets for ADD and A.D.H.D and trust me those things are strong I was like a zombie, none of it worked though I still had the same attitude which was school isn't for me.
a few teachers understood me they was usually the strict ones which no one liked, We used to spend my many hours of detentions talking about it.
Most never understood though they where to busy giving away lollipops for the best homework or talking to the class about what they got up to at the weekend.
I have done ok for myself without school I think, I am never going to be Alan Sugar but have stable job a nice home I can afford the lifestyle I like to lead which is modest but what I want you know.
In all cases it's helped, not hindered, to have rules and boundaries in my teaching environment, be that whole class teaching, small groups or one-to-one. Young children, especially, crave the security of boundaries and knowing what's expected of them in terms of behaviour - total freedom scares them, and yet they are often surrounded by it, able to do what they want, to make their own choices, to demand, and then receive, anything they ask for etc etc. But for a child who is also not secure in their own skin for whatever reason, it only serves to make any behaviour issue worse at school. Teachers can either ignore it, or they can try and impose some sort of regimen that provides the boundaries that - bizarre though this may sound - provides a great deal of 'relief' in terms of that child feeling that someone else is, at last, telling them what to do and how to do it. It's true of learners of any age as well, but it's especially important to lay down these boundaries with young learners so that it becomes just another normal part of their educational experience.
I do have a reputation as being quite 'strict' at work, but I am now working with students who can be very disruptive, so knowing how to deal with very challenging behaviours, and having the confidence to know that the techniques can all transfer to any age of student, has really helped in my relatively new teaching environment. But no one taught me that when I was training.
And that's the problem. I was lucky, if you can call it luck, that I had students who were very challenging in those early days, but when I looked to my Headteacher for help and advice he was useless - he knew even less than me when it came to these things! But I had help from other teachers who worked in specialist units and I worked hard to learn - it was either that or give up!
But I know that too many teachers don't have that 'luck' - and we saw the results of ineffective classroom behaviour management at student teacher level with Mr Bispham last night, and also to some degree, with the senior management team in the school too! I would never talk to the back of someone's head - your students are only listening effectively if they're doing so with eyes and ears!
I'm not sure I'm going to enjoy this as much as I did Educating Yorkshire - so far it's not really 'grabbing' me... but it's early days.
And 123keithy123 - you have a fantastic insight into the key issue from first hand experience. If only more educators could hear your story and have more faith that classroom discipline, when instigated in the right way, far from suffocating learning, enables it to flourish and encourages a respectful, and effective, classroom environment!
Parents with no respect for anything bringing up kids with no respect for anything. Clueless schools with restricted powers and teachers more concerned about being pals with the kids than teaching them discipline. It was disturbing the way the camera played up the precocious little brat who thinks she is going to be an actress, and nobody with the guts to explain to her that she needs to be able to speak the English language to achieve that.
Don't expect the welfare budget to reduce any time soon. What employer would even consider one of this lot?
It was, however, an accurate picture of Waltham Forest - also a microcosm of everything that has gone wrong with London.
And, Channel 4, Walthamstow is not even remotely "East End". The programme makers are obviously as sloppy as the school.
I think at times it is the parents fault,about behavour
I seen children saying I want this that(talking about maybe 8 year's plus ) when in shops parent says no ,child says oh I want it saying it loudly parent says ok
There is no please or thank you so it makes teacher's job harder to get respect.
I did to some extent but to use the excuse of her mums illness for posting the nude Facebook pic was a bit lame
I'd have thought her mum being so sick would have taken her mind off causing trouble
She got atitude written all over her face
And as a previous poster said Tawney was an irritant
Hubby, yuk, what an absolutely appalling word, so 1950s, my husband would quite rightly open divorce proceedings if I ever used it, still, no chance of me doing that, but I digress.
If your husband is a school governor, and is in contact with the headmistress, perhaps together, they could facilitate an evening class in written English for you.
I'm reasonably sure that it would have been better to write; "The headmistress of the school, at which he is a governor, and ask what she thought of the programme."
Blimey there's no need to get in such a twist over my grammar.. I wrote quickly and sometimes I do not proof read what I write, especially if I am in a hurry and want to get something written out.. Or should that be typed out if we are being that precise...